[Closed] Talk To Me Abbout Coffee 🙂

how do they do it so well?

a good machine with a separate boiler for the steam.* (home machines often only have one boiler)
good coffee that's been roasted properly and not left for ages on the shelf.
a good burr grinder
knowing how to use the above.

*these are not cheap.

you don't need an expensive machine for home use. (unless you want to make lots of coffees one after the other)

surf-mat is correct in his pronouncements on this particular thread

this does not imply or seek to imply that he is correct in terms of other opinions offered at other times in relation to, but not exclusively, politics or [b]anything else [/b] ever. moreover he may subsequently post a comment on this thread, relating to coffee, or anything else, which I feel less able to endorse with such enthusiasm.

But all of this is just lame compared to sitting in a simple cafe in Italy/Spain/France/Portugal/Sweden drinking a freshly made cafe solo/espresso/whatever - how do they do it so well?

Mate, it's because you are on holiday!

Different countries have different styles of coffee - both in the brewing and the style of blends available.

I remember being in a quiet off-season local cafe on the sea front in the Breton town where my folks used to live. Lovely location.. the coffee was awful 🙂 I had to order hot chocoalte there subsequently 🙂

I have a Kitchen Aid coffee machine and grinder. They're great.

I've found best beans to be from Monmouth.

If you want to see levels of obsession and ocd greater than the weight weenies forum start checking out some of the old Google coffee group posts and various forums.

Good luck in your pursuit of the god shot!

This is the kind of stuff they measure
[img] [/img]

You don't go to France for the coffee. Pastries however...

And they say stuff like this

The MINCO CT325 controler is not a PID but just a very quick hard on/off solid state switch with a +/-0.5°C deadband. The Zaffiro normally heats for 30 to 45 seconds and cools down for maybe 5 minutes. Thus the huge temperature fluctuation. With the MINCO installed it turns on only for a few seconds every twenty seconds or so keeping it within the (MAX!) +/- 0.5°C in the boiler, which translates to roughly +/-0.25° in the brewing head due to its buffering effect. The sensor should be mounted as near to the heating element as possible for quick reaction. (I will mount mine on an aluminum 6mm halfround piece inside the boiler temperature well.) If the controler is mounted in the area of the normal t-stat, it is easilly adjustable through the vent slits with a small screwdriver. My friend connected a small digital voltmeter over the holes for the pump switch and light, (who needs them? If you need the pump you can hit the switch under the E61 lever with your thumb.) so he can see exactly what the temperature is at the sensor. There are two leads on the MINCO for that purpose where the V readout = the temperature. Also it is a good idea to insulate the boiler and pipes.
So all you need then is to determine the actual brewing temp and set the boiler temp accordingly. I think my friend has his set at 104°C for 94°C in the brewing head. When I get mine done I will send some more exact info.
(I measure the temp inside the E61 with a small electronic thermometer with a 3.5mm stick. I replaced the Allen screw in the center of the head with a longer one out of aluminum that is drilled out 3.5mm, (not all the way through!). Fits right in and responds quickly within 1/10°C. )

Try buying a flat white in a proper cafe (not starbucks or costa) - it might be closer to what you had in spain. Generally 2 shots of espresso and less milk than a latte.

I like Illy coffee, or from London's square mile coffee.

I bought a stove top and milk frother a few months back, but can't make the kind of coffee i like - rich and smooth - so end up buying it from cafes.

I want a nice coffee now, not the stuff from work's canteen!

You could try a cold press?

How long do you extract the espresso for? I seem to remember being told that 16 seconds is the optimum time - any longer and you get a bitter taste. (Using the double shot holder in a Gaggia)

bit longer than that, 25 secs in my double basket for a 1oz shot. different beans/roasts behave differently, so you keep the quantity and tamp pressure the same, and vary the grind to get the 25 secs extraction.

ime the coffee in spain is not all that, and i live there. in the last two years, i can only think of one occasion the coffee was impressive.

The MINCO CT325 controler is not a PID but just a very quick hard on/off solid state switch with a +/-0.5°C deadband. etc etc ad nauseam

good grief, that's enough to put me off drinking coffee altogether 🙁

I've got (and love) a Gaggia classic. Don't find it too much hassle in the mornings either. Also use a stovetop jobby when camping, I've made a little adaptor so I can use it on Trangia.

Surf-Mat is right about how others do it all so much better though.
The picture shows what we were served in Buenos Aires when we asked for two coffees (nothing more).

[IMG] [/IMG]

Coffee? but of course it comes with cake, juice and water sir!
(try that in Starbucks and it'll cost a lot more than the £2 we paid there)

so the packaging is important ? I prefer to grind freshly roasted beans from a shop here in Lancaster...

Another Atkinsons fan then.
Try the Espresso Lusso from there.

Has anyone else tried [url= http://www.aeropresscoffee.co.uk/ ]one of these...[/url] ?

I love it, got mine for £15, makes better coffee than [b]any[/b] [i]home [/i] coffee maker I've ever tasted... Plus there is nearly zero cleaning, just a quick rinse, and you can choose your brew time and water temperature as precisely as you like to get your perfect custom brew... And you can you make more straight after, with no faffing around if you need to make lots of cups! And it's portable

No, I don't sell them, or work for them, or even remotely connected, just chuffed to $%^& with mine...

You boys still talking about this?

Nespresso. You'll get there.

I've had two since the start of this, just drop 'em in, BAM and I'm gone. You're still grinding and tamping and felching, but I'm gone. It suits me because I'm a business man and I've got moves to make.

It suits me because I'm a business man and I've got moves to make.

Problem with Nespresso is you can only have their coffees. A bit like only going to one trail centre.

"Sure we have a choice of trails! There's the green, red, blue and black! And the DH! They're all great trails, what more do do you need?"

Problem with Nespresso is you can only have their coffees. A bit like only going to one trail centre.

And you have to order them over the internet. That is rubbish 🙁

And you have to order them over the internet.

ie "already stale" 🙁

Surf-mat - have you changed your user name?

No

sfb is your milk frother any good?

sfb is your milk frother any good?

yes, it works fine. I usually heat the milk in the microwave first.

I'd agree that instant or pre-ground Illy is good coffee as long as the rest agree that Appollos ride brilliantly and BenQ make the best digital cameras about 🙂 thanks.

Aeropress though is good and cheap. Nothing to do with espresso though.

Surf-Mat - Member
Surf-mat - have you changed your user name?
No

mf - water off a duck's back TBH 😉

Simple solution- Bialetti stove top. Coffee from here: http://www.algcoffee.co.uk/scripts/default.asp

I recommend the Algerian Special. Ground for stove top: perfect with a milk frother like an Aeorlatte. Can honestly say I haven't drunk a cup of instant since I discovered this.

Firstly, the quality of advice regarding coffee on this forum is probably as poor as the advice you would get on a coffee forum if you asked there about mountain biking.

Try coffeegeek.com or homebarista.com for useful information and advice.

In my experience, fwiw, I started with a stovetop and got fair coffee with off the shelf, pre-ground Illy. Slightly bitter though. I then purchased a Gaggia Evolution (similar internals to the Classic) better espresso, but inconsistent (mainly due to temperature variation and pre-ground coffee deteriorating rapidly after opening, and lack of control over extraction times. Got a burr grinder large improvement with fresh coffee, but a noticeable deterioration after two weeks from roasting

Purchased a coffee roaster and now only roast enough for a couple of weeks. From day of roasting there is an improvement in espresso for 2-3 days, good espresso for the next week or two, then a noticeable drop after two weeks.

I was still struggling with inconsistent temperature, so got a Heatexchanger machine and now get Espresso I'm very happy with.

Every step in this progression has improved flavour and/or crema in my espresso.

I would echo the Aeropress can produce very good coffee, (but not espresso!)

To sum up for fine espresso you need: consistent and accurate temperature control, 92-93 degree centigrade. Fresh coffee, less than two weeks from roasting. Ground within a few minutes of using. Good quality beans. Anything else, in my experience will not produce fine espresso. Cafitiere, filter machines and vac-pots are slightly less fussy, but not massively so.

Nesspresso's contribution to coffee is the same as Argos's contribution to downhill racing. IMHO.

hoity-toity 🙂

😉

That's a bit much for most of the folk here tho WEJ. In coffee terms most people here are just pootling along a towpath really. So nespresso can work well for that.

You are right though about bean freshness. It's way more important than anything else.

waits for a stampede of mega bucks coffee maker owners claiming their machine is better

Hello

[img] [/img]

Jura ENA5

gaggia classic

burr grinder

fresh beans

good consistent tamp

erm ..............that it, or am I getting something wrong

edit: add to the above a bottomless filter for perfecto crema

If I were mega rich I'd buy a machine with two boilers and bean-to-cup. Purely for the convenience factor 🙂

i'm sure i get shot down for this but i think if you want to get that spanish coffee flavour use uht milk as thats what they use., i,m going to make one now

I actually prefer to go to the caff. It's cleaner than my house and there's more totty 🙂

very funny thread.

If people believe their coffee is better using 5 grands worth of equipment, then they should be left to believe that, they've invested in it, I don't see any need to knock them.

I've found I'm happy enough with ground coffee in a bag from somewhere that I keep in the fridge and pour boiling water over in one of them big cafeietierre pot things. I like the smell moer than the taste of coffee to be honest and we keep the grounds in a small fridge mostly so I can open it and sniff up big.

Fresh coffee, less than two weeks from roasting. Ground within a few minutes of using. Good quality beans. Anything else, in my experience will not produce fine espresso.

There are so few people in the world who could distinguish those subtleties that they never need to go there. Not one of the places I drank coffee in Italy was that fussed about the age of the coffee before grinding - yet they produced the best coffee. Not everyone could get the best out of Steve Peat's bike, so they don't need Steve Peat's bike.

Here is a good thread if you are interested in modding your machine with PID, voltage sensor etc - give you much better temperature control. [url= http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/427213 ]http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/427213[/url]

And pics [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works/3608274583/sizes/z/ ]http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works/3608274583/sizes/z/[/url]

I've never done this but was seriously obsessed with finding the god shot at one point. I've moved on....

There's so much variety in coffee's and so much choice that you can spend too long fiddling about and forgetting to sit back and enjoy your drink. The vital ingredient in an god shot is sitting back and relaxing. That's what's you do in Spain/Italy/France etc...

If people believe their coffee is better using 5 grands worth of equipment, then they should be left to believe that, they've invested in it, I don't see any need to knock them

No-one on this thread's said that though. Even WEJ has a fairly cheap machine with some inexpensive mods, doesn't he?

Mods? Like a carbon filter for example? Maybe a titanium water boiler too?

wow does Steve Peat's bike also make coffee? I'd pay £5,000.00 for that!

It's like hi-fi nuts isn't it - £10K's worth of audio equipment, then they listen to Dire Straits...

Maybe a titanium water boiler too?

how about using heavy water to get that exclusive hit ? Then I speculated about the perfect murder where you keep giving someone heavy water till they become so dense they inexplicably sink when they go for a swim but:

However, larger concentrations of heavy water are toxic in eukaryotic organisms, when heavy water replaces about 25% to 50% of the body's water

Mods? Like a carbon filter for example? Maybe a titanium water boiler too?

Hehehe... you jest...

I've seen modding pages for coffee machines. Usually tweaking the thermostat and lagging the pipes for more consistent water temperature...

though since it's not radioactive I don't know if a pathologist would detect it...

Mass spec would show it up.. which I suspect they'd use for othe post mortem analyses.