[Closed] Taking the kids out of school to going skiing. Opinions?

1. Graham's kid is four, so they haven't changed for her.
2. Compulsory attendance was expected prior to the introduction of fines.
3. My pension and working conditions have been changed more than once.

My kids are older so its relevant for me and the rules where changed to take the autonomy away from the school head who was able to take a more grown up and broader view.
My working conditions have also been changed several times.

I think I can condense DazH's bullet points a bit, good as they are:

1. She's 4. It really doesn't matter.

But I think the thread wasn't actually supposed to be an opportunity to put Graham in the stocks (correct me if I'm wrong, got a pile of mouldy veg here I need rid of), more the general principal of the current legislation, which is utter bobbins. I can't see how it helps anyone. The ones who are going to kept out from school by their parents will be anyway, and fining them won't help.

the thread wasn't actually supposed to be an opportunity to put Graham in the stocks

He knew what he was doing... 🙂

I think I can condense DazH's bullet points a bit, good as they are:

1. She's 4. It really doesn't matter.

But I think the thread wasn't actually supposed to be an opportunity to put Graham in the stocks (correct me if I'm wrong, got a pile of mouldy veg here I need rid of), more the general principal of the current legislation, which is utter bobbins. I can't see how it helps anyone. The ones who are going to kept out from school by their parents will be anyway, and fining them won't help.

Whole thread nicely condensed!

Just out of curiosity - how often do schools fine parents, and what are the sanctions for not paying ?

It seems like the last stop on a long train ride. First, the school has to be able to prove that the kids weren't all off with a stomach bug. Then they have to invoice the parents, and establish for certain that they have no intention to pay. I guess then they take the parents to court for non-payment ? Does the local authority do that ? Can they ban kids from school if the parents don't pay ? I thought there is a statutory obligation to provide education.

Oh yeah and home-school the kids for the bits they missed - I see the point about the teachers having to catch them up, but surely that would happen if the kid was off sick anyway - so why not ask for the material and do it yourself at the airport ?

If it was me, I would keep very quiet about what was happening, make sure there is no internet trail and the kids don't post tons of pics on FB about their holiday. In the whole benefits v consequences equation I would think the benefits win.

The only justification for taking your kids on holiday in term time is cost.

And availability.

Cultural development etc are also available during school holiday times.

Of course. That wasn't offered as a [i]reason[/i] to go away during term time. It is just part of the equation when balancing out the cost/benefit to the child.

So admit you do it to get a cheap holiday you otherwise couldn't afford

I thought I'd already been pretty clear about that.
We did it because otherwise we couldn't have gone on that holiday. Cost was a major factor in that. As was availability.

("cheap" is a pretty relative term as it still cost over three and half grand 😯 )

[quote=hels ]If it was me, I would[s] keep very quiet about what was happening, make sure there is no internet trail and the kids don't post tons of pics on FB about their holiday.[/s] Get the kids to lie I think we've covered the dishonesty bit already 😉

it still cost over three and half grand

Ooooh, get you and all your money sticking out of your arse. 😛

Every other argument is spurious.

So admit you do it to get a cheap holiday you otherwise couldn't afford, and then people can agree or disagree with your point of view depending on their own.

Yes but the cost is the point. If some people couldn't afford a holiday in school holidays they may not go at all.

The nub of the argument is can that holiday be of equal value to a family (I don't even think it has to be particularly educational if it has other benefits) as that time spent in school. I would argue the time in school is sometimes over valued versus other life experiences, particularly in the early years. My own experience is that nothing fires a childs mind like being there, seeing & doing things for themselves.

Some friends of mine are off to Australia with the kids during term time to see relatives for 4 weeks. Knowing them, they will make efforts to ensure they keep up with dat book lurnin' whilst they are away, but I suspect the other aspects of the trip will be of greater long term value, and seriously doubt it will have any long term detrimental effect.

FWIW I wouldn't take my kids out for that long. But the point is they shouldn't give a rats ass what I think as it's their responsibility as parents to do what they think is best.

Tell you what, lets stop calling it a holiday and say gap week 🙂

Schools don't fine parents, iirc, they report it and the education authority decide whether to fine?

Pretty pointless unless the fine is big enough to actually make holidays in term time uneconomic. Usual standard of poorly thought through legislation.

Just out of curiosity - how often do schools fine parents, and what are the sanctions for not paying ?

[url= https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance ]Not great I'd say.[/url]

Don't know of any stats on the actual fines being applied, but it generally seems to make local news (or maybe thats just the ones who don't jsut see it as a fair cop).

Pretty pointless unless the fine is big enough to actually make holidays in term time uneconomic. Usual standard of poorly thought through legislation.

I think that also points to the intention of the original legislation.
i.e. if the parents are ****less and don't care if their kids are habitually truant then perhaps some fines will [i]make[/i] them care.

Of course if the parents [i]are[/i] that ****less then I doubt they'd have any qualms about lying to the relevant authority anyway - so it still doesn't really work.

Wow - somebody managed to find something useful on the gov.uk website. Do you have the word "Digital" in your job title ?

P.S and thanks !

ROFL as it happens I do.. I have a feeling the design principle for that site was 'awwwww screw it, Google'll find it for them sooner or later. Let's get tacos'.

I die a little bit inside everytime I end up there.

He knew what he was doing...

Good point, well made 🙂

[i]1. Graham's kid is four, so they haven't changed for her.[/i]

How old are your other kids Graham?

Yes but the cost is the point. If some people couldn't afford a holiday in school holidays they may not go at all.

I would argue the time in school is sometimes over valued versus other life experiences, particularly in the early years

Of course if the parents are that ****less then I doubt they'd have any qualms about lying to the relevant authority anyway - so it still doesn't really work.

FWIW Graham, I can totally understand the bemusement about fining over your four year old missing a week, but in the broader context of your original post, I stand by my earlier replies (albeit in a slightly less belligerent way 🙂 ).

How old are your other kids Graham?

We've got two kids. Daughter at school (reception year) is four and her little sister is one and a half. So only the eldest was an issue.

I don't get this need for taking kids to far-flung expensive places for holidays. I didn't go abroad for a holiday ever with my parents and not myself until I was 36. I'm no different to anyone else because of it.

Making the excuse that it's good for their cultural development (or whatever) and experience of the world is just a cover for the fact that the [b]parent[/b] can't ever imagine not having their fancy holiday. Makes no difference to a primary school age child where you go.

Well, there's no legislation to say holidays are a human right.

Indeed, but I think most people would agree that quality time with family and a broad range of positive experiences are generally a good thing for child development.

So disrupting that with legislation that aims to protect and improve child development is a bit odd.

But as you say, the problem for schools facing targets and league tables is that life experience is hard to measure.

I stand by my earlier replies (albeit in a slightly less belligerent way ).

That's fine. As DD said I knew what I was doing when I started the thread 😀 I always find other people's viewpoints interesting, even if I don't share them.

And I can see us doing the same thing next year and probably several more years after that, so you can be more belligerent then 😀

dazh -
2. Parents being trusted to make their own decisions on whether their childs education and development will be negatively impacted is also a pretty good justification.

And I can see us doing the same thing next year and probably several more years after that, so you can be more belligerent then 😀

I think there's something to that, but the problem for schools is they are not measured on the quality of life experience their pupils have attained on leaving the school - they as an organisation and the teachers as individuals are professionally measured on the results the pupils get.

I understand the schools problem. But it's as imposed on them as it is on the parents. I think given a straight choice, most schools would have preferred to leave it to a heads discretion, but as you say they are measured on this so they can't turn a blind eye. No one benefits from legislating that I can see.

With respect, how are parents qualified to make that decision? It's like - if your child had dental problems, would you presume to instruct their dentist on how you'd like it treated, even if that's contrary to what the dentist advises?

Who says you have to be qualified? You don't to home school for example, just be able to demonstrate progress. In your dental example, the dentist can advise but the parent decides (even if if its a bad decision. Thats part of the deal for better or worse - see MMR vaccination).

The point about it being a skiing holiday isn't inverse snobbery. The fact is that if you want to talk about experiencing different cultures etc there are far cheaper ways of going abroad and gaining a more rounded experience of life abroad than going skiing. Ski resorts have very little to do with the culture of the country in which they are based. The truth of the matter is the OP wants to go skiing himself & is just trying to save money to do it. Everything else is just an attempt to justify why he should be able to do this. It has nothing to do with his kids.

[ not read thread] Speaking to teacher friends the problem is not that one parent does it but half the class do it at different times and this creates the problem

I don't get this need for taking kids to far-flung expensive places for holidays. I didn't go abroad for a holiday ever with my parents

I didn't go abroad much as a kid either. The odd 30-hour coach trip to Spain, but mostly we went to UK caravan and camp sites. It was great and we do the same with our kids in the summer.

Having said that, we took my mum with us on this holiday (hence the cost) and after a few glasses of bordeaux one night she rather sadly confided how she wished she'd been able to give my sister and I holidays like this when we were young and what a great experience it was for the girls.

The truth of the matter is the OP wants to go skiing himself & is just trying to save money to do it. Everything else is just an attempt to justify why he should be able to do this. It has nothing to do with his kids.

Nope. I'm off for two weeks in Whistler in ten days time with two mates. My quality skiing time was already booked. This holiday was about the kids and having fun as a family.

(Third time our four year old has been skiing and she had been talking about going again ever since last season).

after a few glasses of bordeaux one night she rather sadly confided how she wished she'd been able to give my sister and I holidays like this when we were young and what a great experience it was for the girls.

*wipes a tear from my eye*

That's all the justification you need. Thread should be closed on that bombshell.

Indeed, but I think most people would agree that quality time with family and a broad range of positive experiences are generally a good thing for child development.

Don't the rather long school holidays afford the opportunity to do these things? Granted things are a bit more expensive but then there are plenty of things that I'd like to do with my holidays but can't because I can't afford to.

Edit

Nope. I'm off for two weeks in Whistler in ten days time with two mates. My quality skiing time was already booked.

And you're worried about the cost of a familty trip. Nice to see you've got your priorities straight.

we took my mum with us on this holiday (hence the cost)

Could you have gone during the school holidays if you weren't paying for [s]a babysitter[/s] [i]an extra adult[/i] to come with you?

Nope. I'm off for two weeks in Whistler in ten days time with two mates. My quality skiing time was already booked. This holiday was about the kids and having fun as a family.

It must be awful living in such poverty. How much family time with the kids are you missing in those two weeks?

Thread should be closed on that bombshell.

Is this Top gear now? 😉

And you're worried about the cost of a familty trip. Nice to see you've got your priorities straight.

I usually just do a cheapo trip to Slovakia, but I'm turning forty in April so Whistler is a birthday treat. Quite happy with my priorities thanks 😀

It must be awful living in such poverty.

Don't think I ever claimed to be poor. We both work part time in above-average pay jobs and we budget well.

we were charged £60 per responsible parent or guardian. so £120?

**This is not an argument for or against taking kids out of school, and I haven't read the whole thread**

I've just got back from a ski trip with the kids, my kids missed the last day of term and the first day back after the half term break. We don't want to pay the inflated flight costs over the school holiday so chose to drive to the Pyrenees. This takes longer but is very much the cheaper option, as we already have our car there so no hire car needed. We go to the Pyrenees because my sister lives out there with their kids so it's nice for all the kids to meet up for holidays.

I don't mind taking the kids out of school for a few days but don't want them to miss too much of it, summer holidays will again be down to my sisters/the spanish/french coast, but again in the school holidays. We work hard to make the trips as cheap as possible by driving down and not booking packages. Trips abroad in the school holidays don't have to be super expensive if you do the donkey work yourself.

In Leeds they usually give you 5 days grace before they start fining parents, I think this system is pretty good as it stings the constant offenders but doesn't cost me any more!! 😉

There are some proper miserable judgemental sods on this thread. Yes, skiing is not a human right, it's not culturally enlightening, and it's not cheap. It is however bloody good fun and myself and my kids love it, and I'd like to make it cheaper so I can take them every year instead of every other year. That's all the justification I need to be honest.

With respect, how are parents qualified to make that decision?

Because they have brains and the ability to use them?

Unfortunately your decision and a similar decisions by lots of other parents harms the education of most kids in that class. Catching up takes time and someone misses out most weeks.
So you [ and the OP] can either do what is your interest [ and quite probably/possibly your kids] or what is in the collective interest of everyone kids.

Being a parent does not make you able to asses your kids educational needs any more than having a car makes me qualified to decide when to change the cam belt

We spoke to her teacher beforehand to make sure she wouldn't miss anything.
If he had told us that he thought it was a bad idea or that it might harm the education of her or others then we would have considered that and probably wouldn't have done it.

Being a parent does not make you able to asses your kids educational needs any more than having a car makes me qualified to decide when to change the cam belt

Indeed, but you can ask the teacher/mechanic that [i]is[/i] qualified and listen to what they say.

Unfortunately your decision and a similar decisions by lots of other parents harms the education of most kids in that class

how does removing a child from class affect the other children's education? Utter bobbins that is. If Children miss class for whatever reason, they play catchup at home or after school, it's been like that for.... well ever! If you missed it, your teacher is supposed to document what is taught everyday as standard, so all that is needed is those notes yourself - not hard really.

Its been stated many times already, but this thread has turned into a Class War about certain peoples choices on holiday type, money and the incessant need for unworkable and unneeded "catch all rule" designed around the ****less of society. It seems odd, but those arguing around this on the forum, i'll take a shot at saying are all responsible adults pushing their kids to succeed in what unique way they choose, so hardly the target audience for what the rules are designed around.

As a kid i went on a grand total of 2 holidays with family, 1 to Littlehampton in a Caravan (i was about 3 or 4 then) and 1 to Comb Martin in a Caravan. My parents couldn't afford it, i didn't mind this as i was a kid, but i know that I've missed out, it wasn;t my parents fault, its just the way it was.

Now as a parent of a 3 and almost 5 year old and with a lot more funds than my parents had, i choose to take my family abroad. I like travelling, i do it with work, and i see the benefit it can have on your life, i want this for my kids! The only way, as it "legally" stands my kids will go away skiing or such like, is with the school and i will have to pay the school and the teachers for the privilege - well above what i would if we went as a family.

The Ski magazine is correct, and you'll find that the editor is a local surrey MTB'er too, so oddly enough fits in with everyone here on the "responsible adult theme", i'm with him on this one and all those other responsible adults that are encouraging their childrens education.

just a quick edit, i'm also fairly certain, that those doing this kinds of holidays will understand how well their child's academic education is going, if they were failing bad i'm sure the decision would be not to go..

Plenty of obnoxious responses on this thread!

There is another good reason for skiing outside school holidays - less crowded slopes are much safer and pleasant (we really want our kids to be able to ski and enjoy it as safely as possible).

When the kids start school, we won't take them out during term time purely to save some money (even though that does matter) so we'll take the pain for summer holidays as there are lots of options and alternatives if required... skiing is different though. I am hoping that we can find some smaller quieter resorts that offer enough variety for all of us to be happy though, even during school holidays.

We've been going through the school application/visits things for our eldest and a major objective of the primary schools seems to be to produce well rounded confident kids - how on earth is a family ski holiday not consistent with that?!

how does removing a child from class affect the other children's education?

Well the cumulative effect of many children (not just yours) taking time off during term time would certainly impact the effectivness of the teaching not to mention the impact of having to re teach the topics again.

We've been going through the school application/visits things for our eldest and a major objective of the primary schools seems to be to produce well rounded confident kids - how on earth is a family ski holiday not consistent with that?!

No one has said that family ski holidays aren't a good thing, but it's hardly a requirement for bringing up well rounded children is it.

Well the cumulative effect of many children (not just yours) taking time off during term time would certainly impact the effectivness of the teaching not to mention the impact of having to re teach the topics again.

i get this, but i already stated that catchup can be done quite quickly by parents simply by understanding what the weeks topics were which should be readily available. Therefore, there should never be a requirement for a topic to be taught twice in a class.

No one has said that family ski holidays aren't a good thing, but it's hardly a requirement for bringing up well rounded children is it.

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it's consistent with that objective...

and there are designated times when schools are closed that it is possible to do just that.

and there are designated times when schools are closed that it is possible to do just that.

erm... very limited times, at high cost and very crowded... (I think this may have been covered at some point during this thread 😉

erm... very limited times, at high cost and very crowded... (I think this may have been covered at some point during this thread

And? You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice. It's really not difficult. The time I'll be a bit more sympathetic is when teachers are allowed to act like this.

i get this, but i already stated that catchup can be done quite quickly by parents simply by understanding what the weeks topics were which should be readily available. Therefore, there should never be a requirement for a topic to be taught twice in a class.

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it's consistent with that objective...

And? You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice. It's really not difficult. The time I'll be a bit more sympathetic is when teachers are allowed to act like this.

I can see I'm wasting my time here, so no point debating!

Don't forget the OP is so keen on a family experience that he brings his old Mum along as well. How lovely! (& of course she can look after the kids while he & his wife go skiing 😉 )

At the same time, bringing up well-rounded children is in no way dependant on taking them on holidays their parents enjoy.

Still not sure where I said it was dependent (or a requirement)? The only point I was making is that it is consistent with the objective...

That also sounded very judgemental where you say "taking them on holidays their parents enjoy". Clearly we do enjoy skiing/boarding or we wouldn't even be thinking about it - but a holiday that the kids didn't enjoy wouldn't be enjoyable for any of us! We hope that they do enjoy ski holidays in the future (I would have loved to have gone skiing when I was a kid) - and we'll invest plenty of time in the early years to try and make that the case - but if they don't like then we won't do it.

Unfortunately your decision and a similar decisions by lots of other parents harms the education of most kids in that class.

I just don't accept that. We are talking about primary school kids here, not GCSE or A-level students. I've said earlier I recognise the hassle it causes for teachers. But I think the real driver for this is the target driven culture of the education system, and I don't see why parents should have to suffer the inconvenience and expense of regimented holiday periods in order to maintain a school's league position in the attendance charts.

Still not sure where I said it was dependent (or a requirement)? The only point I was making is that it is consistent with the objective...

No one has said that family ski holidays aren't a good thing, but it's hardly a requirement for bringing up well rounded children is it.

No one said it was a requirement, but if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family, then it's consistent with that objective...

The "taking them on holidays their parents enjoy" bit was a reference to "if parents enjoy skiing/boarding and want to do it as a family...", it's not particularly meant to be judgemental - you'd be a crazy fool to go on holiday or take anyone with you if it's not at least partly underscored by an element of enjoyment for all participants. 🙂

So yeah, it might be consistent with that objective, but it's not dependant on it. So if you can't afford a skiing holiday during school holidays, it's not going to affect your ability to bring up well-rounded children.

Well, quite. All this is about Mummy and Daddy want to go skiing. One gets the distinct impression that the needs or wants of the kids aren't figuring too highly.

so how much extra time should teachers spend producing extra resource for the various parents who want to take their kids out of school to go on cheap holidays

Absolutely none, obviously.

To my (non-teacher) mind it should work something like this: parent speaks to the school (particularly the child's teacher) indicating what they want to do and how they will ensure the child does not fall behind. The school offer guidance on whether they feel it is hugely detrimental or not and can grant or deny the leave on that basis. If the school approve it then the teacher can indicate the work and homework that the child will need to complete (from their existing lesson plans).

If the school don't approve it and the parents do it anyway THEN we are into fines, reporting and parental orders.

Maybe that needs tweaked but, as stated earlier, the working assumption should be that the parent is not ****less and also wants what is best for their kids (unless proven otherwise).

as a parent are 100% fully up to speed with all the many and various topics your child is studying

I hardly ever go over the lines and I know the proper names for all the felt tips. And I only ate the paint that one time.

you'll love doing that apres ski, no?

Plenty of time sitting about airports and in the evenings. Plus if you take the week before the half term week then you also have the whole of the half term week to catch up.

We used to go every year with a mate and his daughter (actually my god daughter). She'd be reading Bronte or Byron on the plane. In fact I can remember her telling us to pipe down in the chalet because she had homework to do. She got a lot of A* and A's, received the school award, DofE Gold award, had her pick of unis and is now studying at King's College.

If that's how my two turn out then I won't be upset.

You choose to have kids, there are consequences and restrictions that go with that choice.

Yep, there are plenty of them without adding more through daft rules.

I just don't accept that. We are talking about primary school kids here, not GCSE or A-level students.

I've said earlier I recognise the hassle it causes for teachers. But I think the real driver for this is the target driven culture of the education system...

...and I don't see why parents should have to suffer the inconvenience and expense of regimented holiday periods in order to maintain a school's league position in the attendance charts.

pondo - I think you're reading too much into subtle wording 😉 It's only relevant where the parents enjoy it, but it wasn't meant that this was all that mattered... And "consistent" in no way means a requirement - just that it is a positive thing rather than a negative thing.

I hope we can find a resort that is less busy/less expensive (but still good) during school holidays - as it would be more convenient to go away then when we have to take holidays anyway to look after the kids. Skiing is always risky but I'm guessing not many of the objectors have encountered the battle ground of busy slopes in holiday periods - there's no way I'd subject my kids to that if I could avoid it.

Sorry if it's expensive, but hey - that Ferrari I always wanted is expensive, that doesn't entitle me to circumnavigate the system and have something I can't afford. I have the car I CAN afford.

That's a rubbish example (sorry 😉 - what if you could afford to buy it a week later (even though technically you're not supposed to - but it won't do anyone any harm and will make everyone happy)?

Don't forget the OP is so keen on a family experience that he brings his old Mum along as well. How lovely! (& of course she can look after the kids while he & his wife go skiing )

She's not [i]that[/i] old (mid-60s) and yes she stayed with our one year old while we were skiing and our four year old was in ski school. It was something she offered to do last year and was keen to do again this year.

Personally I think having a grandma there adds to the "family experience", especially as we don't see her that often at home. But YMMV.

All this is about Mummy and Daddy want to go skiing. One gets the distinct impression that the needs or wants of the kids aren't figuring too highly.

Ooof!

Yeah we really are awful, selfish people for promoting a fun sporty active holiday that we can all enjoy together for many years to come.

Would you say the same about those selfish gits that take their kids cycling?

Absolutely none, obviously.

To my (non-teacher) mind it should work something like this: parent speaks to the school (particularly the child's teacher) indicating what they want to do and how they will ensure the child does not fall behind. The school offer guidance on whether they feel it is hugely detrimental or not and can grant or deny the leave on that basis. If the school approve it then the teacher can indicate the work and homework that the child will need to complete (from their existing lesson plans).

... not suggest an outrageous body of work? Even for Primary School, let's say 30 kids per class and one teacher, on top of what they already do they have to sit down and make plans for each pupil, notwithstanding lesson planning not being an exact science (I don't think - IANAT) and you can't say in September what they'll be doing the week before February half-term, notwithstanding the sinister impositions of OFSTED, notwithstanding the constant ongoing aggro of having to chase up kids who parents really DON'T give a toss, etc etc. How could it ever work at secondary school, where you've got different kids doing different classes with different teachers? That's hours and hours of work, isn't it?

pondo - I think you're reading too much into subtle wording

It's only relevant where the parents enjoy it, but it wasn't meant that this was all that mattered... And "consistent" in no way means a requirement - just that it is a positive thing rather than a negative thing.

Where do the targets for high school students come from? Their performance at Primary School.

I really don't care. Nothing will ever persuade me that my 7 year old needs to be assessed against some arbitrary yardstick set by the government.

That's the thing, it's NOT inconvenient

Yes it can be.

- Local authorities tend to have different half term periods (no bad thing, it's a start in addressing the problem) which means arranging to go away with other families on holiday (skiing or not) can be a pain if the half-terms don't align.
- Work pressures. Everyone at work wants the half term off, but not everyone can have it at the same time. It's much better all round if you can take leave when no one else wants to.

say 30 kids per class and one teacher, on top of what they already do they have to sit down and make plans for each pupil

Why would they need to do that, beyond what they usually do?

you can't say in September what they'll be doing the week before February half-term

No, but I'd hope a teacher would have enough in the way of rough lesson plans that they could tell me what topics they were planning to cover next week. (i.e. having agreed that I can take my kids out then they can let me know what I need to cover with them a day or two before I actually take them out).

Basically what I described was pretty close to how I understand (IANAT) it used to work on a more ad-hoc basis before the rules changed.

notwithstanding the constant ongoing aggro of having to chase up kids who parents really DON'T give a toss

They have to do that already, but currently they also have to chase the parents who DO give a toss and take their kids out with plenty of notice.

Ooof!

Yeah we really are awful, selfish people for promoting a fun sporty active holiday that we can all enjoy together for many years to come.

Would you say the same about those selfish gits that take their kids cycling?

1. Which could be achieved without going skiing.
2. Which could be achieved if you weren't going to Whistler as well.

I'm taking my kids cycling this year. Much cheaper than a skiing holiday - you could probably afford it.

Which could be achieved without going skiing.

If you want to try to re-program my wife to enjoy an active sporty holiday centered around something that isn't snowboarding then please be my guest.

I'm taking my kids cycling this year.

Oh so Daddy wants to go cycling? I get the distinct impression that the needs or wants of your kids aren't figuring too highly. 😆

We always took our kids out of school for a week's holiday (although not skiing) - it did them lots of harm obviously, my daughter got the highest grades in her year group at GCSE and A levels, both of them went to uni, both they now have well paid jobs.
Education used to be for the benefit of the children, if you chose not to take advantage of it occasionally, then so be it, your choice. Nowadays, it seems to be more for the benefit of the schools themselves - to get higher up league tables, therefore attract more pupils, which gives the school more money.

That's a rubbish example (sorry...

... - what if you could afford to buy it a week later (even though technically you're not supposed to - but it won't do anyone any harm and will make everyone happy)?

If you want to try to re-program my wife to enjoy an active sporty holiday centered around something that isn't snowboarding then please be my guest.

So save up. So don't go to Whistler. So do something your kids enjoy and get over yourselves.

Oh so Daddy wants to go cycling? I get the distinct impression that the needs or wants of your kids aren't figuring too highly

I really don't care. Nothing will ever persuade me that my 7 year old needs to be assessed against some arbitrary yardstick set by the government.

Yes it [b]can[/b] be.

- Local authorities tend to have different half term periods (no bad thing, it's a start in addressing the problem) which means arranging to go away with other families on holiday (skiing or not) can be a pain if the half-terms don't align.

I'm taking my kids cycling this year. Much cheaper than a skiing holiday - you could probably afford it.

If the snobbery around skiing is based on how much it costs, that's the whole bloody point, we're trying to bring the price down!

I'd love to take my kids on a cycling holiday, but they prefer skiing, and the 7 year old wouldn't get very far on a bike to make it worthwhile. It's my fault admittedly for taking them skiing in the first place, but I remember begging my parents when I was young to take me skiing and they refused and instead took me on numerous boring beach holidays where all there was to do was get sunburnt and bitten by mosquitoes.

do something your kids enjoy and get over yourselves.

Did you miss the bit where I said my four year old had been going on about wanting to go skiing again ever since our trip last year? I'm pretty sure she enjoyed it.

And what is wrong with getting kids into sports that you enjoy like skiing? Or cycling?
Surely it's a lot easier to sell to them if they see you having fun doing it too?

So don't go to Whistler.

Erm... why??? I'm not following your logic here.

Did you miss the bit where I said my four year old had been going on about wanting to go skiing again ever since our trip last year?

And your one-year old?

And what is wrong with getting kids into sports that you enjoy like skiing? Or cycling?

Surely it's a lot easier to sell to them if they see you having fun doing it too?

So don't go to Whistler.

Erm... why??? I'm not following your logic here.

Erm... why??? I'm not following your logic here.

Because they're jealous. That's it I'm afraid. Like I said, miserable judgemental sods!

Why would they need to do that, beyond what they usually do?

No, but I'd hope a teacher would have enough in the way of rough lesson plans that they could tell me what topics they were planning to cover next week. (i.e. having agreed that I can take my kids out then they can let me know what I need to cover with them a day or two before I actually take them out).

They have to do that already, but currently they also have to chase the parents who DO give a toss and take their kids out with plenty of notice.

Because they're jealous. That's it I'm afraid. Like I said, miserable judgemental sods!

You can believe that if it helps you.

Though complaining about being judged seems pretty odd, given the OP.

Nowadays, it seems to be more for the benefit of the schools themselves - to get higher up league tables, therefore attract more pupils, which gives the school [s]more[/s] enough money to survive.

"The education system in this country is creating a generation of children who are unable to think for themselves. Since the introduction of league tables in 1992, there has been a shift in priorities in schools away from traditional teaching methods towards teaching exam tactics to help schools to advance up the league table rankings.

League tables were created to try to give parents the information that would allow the forming of a free market within education and school choice. However, this objective was never achieved. Instead, the tables have given the government greater scope to intervene in schooling by the introduction of various target and policies. As a result, not only has the quality of education decreased, but the league tables themselves have ceased to represent the actual relative quality of schools."
- from [url= http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/education/the-perverse-incentives-of-league-tables/ ]Adam Smith's blog[/url]

And your one-year old?

She didn't express a preference, but she does enjoy time with her grandma and liked the sledging and general playing in the snow so I'm happy to assume she is a yes until she tells me otherwise.

If you have to sell it to them, perhaaps they're not quite as keen as you make out.

Statements like that make me doubt you actually have any kids. 😀

You were complaining about the cost of a skiing holiday. The solution seems obvious.

Your solution is to sacrifice a different holiday, something meant as my 40th birthday treat, so that I can afford to pay two grand more for the same holiday that we had but a week later, in a crappier hotel, at a much busier time, with poorer lessons?

Why would I do that?

Why would I do that?

HTH

She didn't express a preference, but she does enjoy time with her grandma and liked the sledging and general playing in the snow so I'm happy to assume she is a yes until she tells me otherwise.

Which could be acheieved at home.

If you have to sell it to them, perhaaps they're not quite as keen as you make out.

Statements like that make me doubt you actually have any kids.

Your solution is to sacrifice a different holiday, something meant as my 40th birthday treat, so that I can afford to pay two grand more for the same holiday that we had but a week later, in a crappier hotel, at a much busier time, with poorer lessons?

Why would I do that?

I find your use of the word "sacrifice" instructive.

Is there a rule somewhere that says parents shouldn't do stuff without their kids? And what's this 'signed up for' rubbish? I chose to have kids, I didn't see any contract.

Definitely take the children out of school OP. Don't do it for the price difference do it for the valuable time and life experience.

Little bit of one to one learning while your away and they will come back 3 months ahead of the class.

Teachers posting with their blinkers on by the looks of things.

Is there a rule somewhere that says parents shouldn't do stuff without their kids? And what's this 'signed up for' rubbish? I chose to have kids, I didn't see any contract.

Again, instructive. For the hard of thinking: it's not news that half-term holidays are expensive. It's also not news that skiing holidays are expensive. So if you want to take your kids skiing, cough up, and if that means not doing something else, that's the way it goes. Gee, you could always go for a bike ride instead.

Oh, and if your kids go to school, you have seen a contract.