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Regardless of whether he's right or wrong about his rock pools and so on, the polite and dignified manner in which jammasterjay1974 has conducted himself throughout the thread certainly stands out. Perhaps his kids won't turn out to be little brats after all 😉
Nobby not sure how you failed to understand my point about private schools having longer holidays. You raise an interesting point re grammar schools and day length but I'm not sure how appli able tbat would be ina comp. Grammar school kids have better attention spans.
Thers no doubt kids get tired during long terms and later in the day. More hours of schooling a day would only work imo if it was following an extended hour ot two break in the afternoon....not that I want a longer day myself. 7:30 - 5ish plus an hour or so later is more than enough for me.
Looks at 5am spelling and grammer and awaits flaming 😳
Nobby - It clearly says that the decision lies with the head teacher, but the that fine is enforced by the local authority. Only UNAUTHORISED absences will be fined, so it absolutely IS in the hands of the school. If a head teacher authorises the absence you'll be dandy, I'm aware that this is only supposed to be authorised in 'exceptional' circumstances, but it's still within the gift of the head teacher to decide whether such a request is 'exceptional' or not. My point is, that if you don't ask, you don't get. But if you don't get, you respect that decision.
You say you've been in school lately, you work in education then do you? Or you just know a few teachers?
Grammar school kids have better attention spans.
Oooh! That sounds interesting. I'd like to read more about that. Can you point me at the source?
What do they mean by 'better' just longer or more focused?
Both, I have no data to back it up though just teaching experience in comps, those kids who are at the same level as grammar school kids within a comp will work harder for longer than those who wouldnt habe got near grammar school levels.
Not read any of the thread other than:
There's no doubt kids get tired during long terms and later in the day.
I teach in a sixth form college. My physics students are incredibly bright kids who absolutely would have been capable of getting into a grammar school if we had them locally.
Our timetable extends to 4:10, so an hour later than most schools. Our Autumn term starts two weeks earlier than most schools and so is longer than most schools.
My students are pretty knackered by the end of the day, and it gets worse as we go through the term. This is despite them being in fewer lessons per day that pre-16 students.
I can only imagine how they'd be with a fuller timetable, and if they were younger or less able.
My own kids are 8 and 10; they're are exhausted by the end of the school week and get worse as the term progresses.
Longer school days and longer school terms would result in kids being more tired and learning less well.
anagallis_arvensis - MemberNobby not sure how you failed to understand my point about private schools having longer holidays. You raise an interesting point re grammar schools and day length but I'm not sure how appli able tbat would be ina comp. Grammar school kids have better attention spans.
Thers no doubt kids get tired during long terms and later in the day. More hours of schooling a day would only work imo if it was following an extended hour ot two break in the afternoon....not that I want a longer day myself. 7:30 - 5ish plus an hour or so later is more than enough for me.
Sorry, it was me being thick.
The few I know that are in or have been to private schools always had a longer school day than the local comp and my understanding was that this is where the longer hours/longer holidays idea was 'borrowed' from.
FWIW, 3 local comps (now academies) all do this & it works well enough.
russianbob:
I have been a school governor for a number of years and have lived through the fast changing politics & regs thrust upon the sector by successive Gov'ts.
The new regulations do not allow Headteachers any leeway with regards to Holidays:
The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 currently allow headteachers to grant leave of absence for the purpose of a family holiday during term time in “special circumstances” of up to ten school days leave per year.Amendments to the 2006 regulations remove references to family holiday and extended leave as well as the statutory threshold of ten school days. The amendments make clear that headteachers may not grant any leave of absence during term time unless there are exceptional circumstances.
From 1st September they are not allowed to permit 'Holidays'. There is, we have been advised a route of appeal to the LA but this is also unlikely to get anywhere unless there are extreme circumstances - the examples we were given are along the lines of 'terminal illnesses' and even those would require evidence!
the examples we were given are along the lines of 'terminal illnesses' and even those would require evidence!
Yeah, that's right, just, uh, roll her old bones on over here, and I'll dig up your daughter. You know that's school policy.
Amendments to the Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 20062.—(1) The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006(1) are amended as follows.
(2) In regulation 7—
(a)after paragraph (1) insert—
“(1A) Subject to paragraph (2), leave of absence shall not be granted unless—(a)an application has been made in advance to the proprietor by a parent with whom the pupil normally resides; and
(b)the proprietor, or a person authorised by the proprietor in accordance with paragraph (1), considers that leave of absence should be granted due to the exceptional circumstances relating to that application.”;
Exceptional circumstances, decided by the proprietor (the head teacher). My head is exercising common sense. The new legislation is to stop people taking the piss. It is by no means out of the school's hands.
Our SIO from the LA made it clear to us that holidays did not fall under the definition of 'leave of absence' any longer - hence it being deleted from the regulation wording. Therefore, our head was told in no uncertain terms that they had no authority in this regard.
It may well be that your LA has a different view.
A nice dilemma to have.
We've just been threatened with a fine for our daughter being off school 5 days with suspected viral meningitis, which the school already know about, yet clearly don't believe..! This is despite the fact our son in the year below has been attending every day, and the daughter in question never having had a day off school in her life. It made my eye balls roll a bit when the letter was delivered on the day of strikes, which prevented her from returning.
From the dfe.
Headteachers have the discretion to grant leave, but they should only do so in exceptional circumstances. If a headteacher grants a leave request, it will be for them to determine the length of time that the child can be away from school. This leave is unlikely, however, to be granted for the purposes of a family holiday.
The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006Term-time holiday
The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 currently allow headteachers to grant leave of absence for the purpose of a family holiday during term time in “special circumstances” of up to ten school days leave per year. Headteachers can also grant extended leave for more than ten school days in exceptional circumstances.
Amendments to the 2006 regulations remove references to family holiday and extended leave as well as the statutory threshold of ten school days. The amendments make clear that headteachers may not grant any leave of absence during term time unless there are exceptional circumstances. Headteachers should determine the number of school days a child can be away from school if the leave is granted.
Heads might still have some discretion but it seems pretty clear that normal family holidays should not be interpreted as exceptional circumstances.
Changing the subject totally. There are teachers out there who spend their lives working their balls off for their pupils. As a student I knew which teachers these were and as a parent I recognise them clearly. If you are one of these I hope you know it too.
We make a point of telling them they are really appreciated. It's amazing how many aren't told...
Anyone wonder how much of this is down to the loss of revenue by the holiday companies and the follow on tax income for the [s]thieves[/s] government when the inflated prices are bought in during "normal" holiday periods?
My eldest has an almost faultless attendance record - yet last term she had 5 "unauthorised absences" on her record!
They soon disappeared when the school where reminded that 3 of those where for home study days that THE SCHOOL ARRANGED and the other two where in fact orthodontist visits arranged several months in advance!
She is almost 5mths ahead of her peers in course work, in the top 2% of her school and the top 5% county yet they seem to think she will suffer if she so much as misses an hr of lessons. Her extra work is coming from 2yrs above where she is and she gets top marks.
Its already been proven and documented by her tutor that she is suffering more having to repeat work/lessons/etc that she has already done just so they can keep their stats looking good!
Personally - if I didn't run 4 companies - I'd consider home schooling her to ensure she is pushed. Too much emphasis is placed on the "lower levels", bringing them up and "helping the less able" to the detriment of the higher achievers nowadays and it boils my p*ss.
IF I choose to arrange a holiday out of the "normal period" due to work/contractual commitments, etc then I will do so regardless.
My two got an unauthorised absence last year for a day when the head told everyone the school was closed because of emergency electrical work, it got finished early, she reopened the school but didn't actually tell anyone.
I'd consider home schooling her to ensure she is pushed. Too much emphasis is placed on the "lower levels", bringing them up and "helping the less able" to the detriment of the higher achievers nowadays and it boils my p*ss.
It might boil you piss also if she wasn't a high achiever and she was left to flounder whilst the school groomed up their more gifted pupils for Oxbridge entrance exams. Which brings me to ask, is she at the right school? Any grammer schools in your area or are the fruits of your four companies enough to sent her to an independent educational establishment?
#I'd consider home schooling her to ensure she is pushed.
I didn't notice this first time, but do you know anything about teaching?
CharlieMungus - Member
I didn't notice this first time, but do you know anything about teaching?
Yes
how are Bass Junkies evidence of that?
I didn't notice this first time, but do you know anything about teaching?Yes
Ok, then where did you get the idea that 'pushing' kids is a good thing?
mildred - Member
We've just been threatened with a fine for our daughter being off school 5 days with suspected viral meningitis, which the school already know about, yet clearly don't believe..!
That is the stuff of madness!
A post script to this discussion:
A week ago I sent a letter to my son's school asking if there were any activities planned for the week before the half term that it would harm my son's education to miss. I also stated that I had no intention of taking term time holidays once his GCSE courses start next year.
Today I received a phone call from my son's year leader in which he told me that although he could not officially sanction absence, in his opinion my son's progress and attendance were good enough that missing the four days I had identified would not be detrimental to his education.
Did they definitely say they wouldn't fine you? Will still be an unauthorised absence.