[Closed] Taking Kids on Holiday During Term Time -- New Rules

By understanding you mean lots of people siding with your view, but because you didn't get the agreement you were looking for you're disappointed?
Oh well, never mind eh.

Seriously the first and last time I get a bollocking from a head for my attitude to education or parenting they will leave in no doubt who is having the last word. It won't be the head teacher. It won't be the head teacher. There will be a winner and a loser in the frank exchange of views and I will not be losing

On the basis that this is a legal issue ^^

Good for you. I don't start arguments in real life that I can't win.

Might I suggest you don't start the argument in the first place.

been in a school recently? Its a valid point to raise give the length of holidays in the private sector.

Yes, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by the latter.

bigyinn - Member
By understanding you mean lots of people siding with your view, but because you didn't get the agreement you were looking for you're disappointed?
Oh well, never mind eh.

No I didn't. I meant that considering I am usually a fairly mild mannered guy on here - that perhaps if I was unusually forceful in my communication there was probably a reason for it.

I know some parents don't believe in taking their children out of school for holidays but we do. What I don't expect is to be criticised in terms of my parenting for it. Our choices are as valid as any others. As I said there have been other instances in other threads where I would would choose not to parent my children as others do. I don't think it is my place to criticise their parenting as a result. I cannot know enough about their situation and parenting to do so. It appears that doesn't stop some others though!

But as you said - never mind eh...

Nobby
Might I suggest you don't start the argument in the first place.

Yes, you may! I wasn't referring to you as an asshat either... You've been more than reasonable.

J

I don't think anyone is criticising your parenting. I think it is your self- centred and self-interested view which people find difficult.

FWIW, the schools I know don't particularly like the situation but it's out of their hands. Some have tried to help by giving extended holidays but in exchange for a longer school day during term time. The irony is that those that allowed parents to vote/decide ended up with the decision to decline the proposed changes! Others have simply imposed it and in those schools it has been welcomed - I guess that's human nature.

The various private & grammar schools had adopted this practice years ago which is why they have always [i]seemed[/i] to have longer breaks. Our son goes to a local grammar & he has extended (over LA standard) hours 4 days a week yet they also finish early on a Wednesday. This seems to work well and, whilst some parents object to having their children home an hour early one day a week, there seems to be plenty of evidence to show the kids are more attentive & involved at the end of the school week than before it was introduced.

The UK does, I believe, have shorter school days than most EU nations & even Murrkah and the 'three term' academic year seems rather unusual too however, the last time it was proposed to change this it was met with total rejection. Personally, I think 4 terms & a staggered holiday quota would suit modern society better - after all, the current one was put in place where those that were lucky/wealthy enough to have a holiday had to do it in the 'summer' months as they didn't leave the Uk.

Perhaps enforcement of these rules will push parents into demanding change...

CharlieMungus - Member
I don't think anyone is criticising your parenting. I think it is your self- centred and self-interested view which people find difficult.

Funny because several people have explicitly criticised my parenting...

no axe to grind but do remember a great news letter from my sons school:-

point 1) taking your child out of school for even a day can damage their education

point 2) school will be closed for two days next week due to a teachers strike

point 1) taking your child out of school for even a day can damage their education

point 2) school will be closed for two days next week due to a teachers strike

There is no conflict in that, clearly the first refers to taking them out when everyone else is in class.

as I said, not trying to make a point

just made me smile 😀

Jam, this is one of those scenarios where some people will never agree with you. Some rules in life you consider to be less important than others. Other people have different priorities. Just as someone willing to break the speed limit may be criticised for not caring enough about people's safety, so you may be criticised for not caring enough about education. Those criticisms may be incorrect, but they shouldn't be unexpected.

I would also ask you to consider the possibility that your child being off for several weeks may have a negative impact on the other pupils. Equally, half of the class having time off through the year could disadvantage your child.

RichPenny. Agreed. I don't expect everyone to agree with me at all. I think it is about rich to consistently criticise my parenting - when people really don't know anything about it...

Obviously I have considered impacts - but don't really consider them to be significant. Since most parents don't take children out of school through choice the potential for disruption is slim.

J

What are the stats like though? Is it something that's gone from 1% to 20% over a decade?

With the greatest respect, are you actually qualified to determine what the effects might be? I'm certainly not, which is why I was asking questions about what is behind these developments. I thought Nobbys view was very interesting.

Obviously I have considered impacts - but don't really consider them to be significant. Since most parents don't take children out of school through choice the potential for disruption is slim.

It's ot so much the impact that this has on your child that is the issue, for me. The issue is more about the principle of children being taken out of school,as the parents choose. . School is not an individual activity taking you child out of class will have an effect on classmates. But the greater point is that the impact is minimal if only a few people behave like this. The only reason you can do it is because others don't. That's not really very fair

The only reason you can do it is because others don't. That's not really very fair

Some people thrive on exploiting others sense of fairness.
Or weakness and stupidity, as they usually describe it.

See the recent TV licence thread for more examples.

The only reason you can do it is because others don't. That's not really very fair
Some people thrive on exploiting others sense of fairness.
Or weakness and stupidity, as they usually describe it.
See the recent TV licence thread for more examples.

I wouldn't say that is typical of me Rusty...

True enough Rusty, the rest of us are left feeling like Kants

Perhaps not typical, but it seems to apply in the current situation

RichPenny - Member
What are the stats like though? Is it something that's gone from 1% to 20% over a decade?
With the greatest respect, are you actually qualified to determine what the effects might be? I'm certainly not, which is why I was asking questions about what is behind these developments. I thought Nobbys view was very interesting.

You are right, I am not qualified to assess the impact and Nobby does make some good points.

It's ot so much the impact that this has on your child that is the issue, for me. The issue is more about the principle of children being taken out of school,as the parents choose. School is not an individual activity taking you child out of class will have an effect on classmates.

But the greater point is that the impact is minimal if only a few people behave like this. The only reason you can do it is because others don't. That's not really very fair.

I think if many people decided to do it then it should be looked at again. I don't take advantage of others and fairness is important to me. I don't like the idea of taking opportunities myself that means others are denied. If this would be the case I would reevaluate my position significantly.

But it seems clear that you don't care if the teacher or school are inconvenienced as a result of you wanting to take your children out.
Wheter or not they actaully are inconvenienced or to what extent, might be open to debate, but the point that you don't actually care , is what is damning

I have undertaken my life with consideration towards others. I like to think I have had a positive impact on other people and given more than I've taken. I'm not really sure how by making a choice to take two holidays in term time that I have denied others the same chance.

I have undertaken my life with consideration towards others. I like to think I have had a positive impact on other people and given more than I've taken. I'm not really sure how by making a choice to take two holidays in term time that I have denied others the same chance.

I wouldn't say that is typical of me Rusty...

I didn't say it was......

However

' Since most parents don't take children out of school through choice the potential for disruption is slim.

J

We all do it in certain situations.
This is a pretty obvious example though, isn't it?

I have undertaken my life with consideration towards others.

sorry, non-parent here.

you know the rules when you choose to have children. suck it up or tie a knot in it

would tend to suggest that you are taking advantage of others honesty and sense of fairness to secure a financial advantage for yourself, whist hoping to minimise the disruption to the education of your child.
We all do it in certain situations.
This is a pretty obvious example though, isn't it?

Not sure it is obvious to me - I am not suggesting others should not do it or complaining about the disruption they might or might not cause. I am certainly not looking to financially advantage myself either. If it came to it and only a limited number of people could do it - I would happily draw lots for it or wait our turn.

You keep saying this, why do you make an exception in this particualr case?

Because that is not the way I am perceiving it perhaps?

I have undertaken my life with consideration towards others. I like to think I have had a positive impact on other people and given more than I've taken. I'm not really sure how by making a choice to take two holidays in term time that I have denied others the same chance.

your moral compass is broken

Because that is not the way I am perceiving it perhaps?

But surely not caring if the school and teacher are put to inconvenience is [i]not[/i] living your life with consideration for others?

MrSmith - Member
I have undertaken my life with consideration towards others. I like to think I have had a positive impact on other people and given more than I've taken. I'm not really sure how by making a choice to take two holidays in term time that I have denied others the same chance.
your moral compass is broken

As is your sense of judgement in terms of scale and severity. I hardly think anything I have said here suggests that.

jamj1974 - Member
I am certainly not looking to financially advantage myself either.

ransos - Member
So you're saying that they'll lose out unless they go on holiday in term time? How?

jamj1974 - Member
Go for longer, go for more trips, actually afford to go to Italy for example...

If that's not looking to give yourself a financial advantage, I honestly have no idea what is.

Perhaps not in that para, but you do here

I care not that it may inconvenience the school or the teacher.

Full disclosure

Fundamentally we take our children's education seriously, seriously enough for most of the year that two-weeks abroad will and has not been affected by taking them out over the last two years. I care not that it may inconvenience the school or the teacher. As parents we do many things with the school where we spend our private time helping them. We spend a lot of time and effort supporting our children's learning (including filling gaps left by the professionals). We don't see schools as free child care either. For these reasons I do not see why the school or education authority should interfere with the holiday plans for my family.

[img] [/img]
and while you are enjoying your holiday, this poor kid who was paired with yours to do a project that week will have to do all the work himself, dropping his marks, reducing his ability to trust people and slowing his education down to the extent he doesn't discover the universal cure for cancer but instead goes on a career in IT.

Perhaps not in that para, but you do here
I care not that it may inconvenience the school or the teacher.

Somewhat shamedly I agree with you CharlieMungus. As I said earlier perhaps because I have not been having a positive experience with the head teacher. I was feeling just a little hot headed at that point... Spoken a little too hastily whilst I was annoyed about another school matter to be blatantly honest... Not particularly proud of that statement .

Excellent! What do i win? 🙂

[img] [/img]

and while you are enjoying your holiday, this poor kid who was paired with yours to do a project that week will have to do all the work himself, dropping his marks, reducing his ability to trust people and slowing his education down to the extent he doesn't discover the universal cure for cancer but instead goes on the a career in IT.

Ok, apart from the somewhat fantastical impact you may may have a point on the group project stuff Mike.

Nice profile pic Mr Smith! Didn't realise you were famous...

Charlie you win a meal for two in a top restaurant with me. Not sure you will want to collect that one - bearing in mind your impression of me...

I do a great impression of you!

If that's not looking to give yourself a financial advantage, I honestly have no idea what is.

Looking to spend less without that meaning others spend more as a result of your action is not seeking a financial advantage. So you not buy stuff in sales because others have paid full price. Your definition of financial advantage is decidedly skewed.

CharlieMungus - Member
I do a great impression of you!

I may have given you enough material on one thread for a caricature...

Nice profile pic Mr Smith! Didn't realise you were famous...

not me, i'm not famous enough to have an 8 page thread all about ME 😥

Neither am I - I'm not the OP...

Maybe you should have stopped after your finest contribution to this thread:

jamj1974 - Member
Glitch

Maybe you should have stopped after your finest contribution to this thread:

And taken away everybody else's fun...?

For those wanting to change the school day/term. My wife and I both work in rural-serving secondary schools,my wife especially is missing LOTS of kids this week as it is good harvesting weather. Up her we go back middle of August,back off for "tattie holidays" at end of this week. Of course with the holidays being a week late we also have lots (perhaps 5%)who are on holiday because the October holidays are a week later than usual this year....(Some have informed the school it was their fault for changing the week of the October holidays,which to be fair they did...in 2011) As a rule, it is pointless trying to get folio/NAB work done etc for last two weeks of term,as their is a mindset,I have to say especially of the better-off kid's parents,that last two weeks of term are fair game. When would you like you children tested; after 9 weeks of working on a topic,when the lessons are fresh in their mind,they have the opp to attend study support/chap a teachers door for help,or after they have had a weeks holiday with parents followed by two weeks term holidays?