[Closed] Taking Kids on Holiday During Term Time -- New Rules

Lots of rock pools to explore etc...

If only we lived in a country where no-one was more than 70 miles from the coast.

ransos - Member
I seriously would live to see your definition of education. All academic perhaps? All tied to the national curriculum maybe...?
It's up to you to provide a definition, as you're the one trying to make a justification. Or is it just possible that you want to spend a week sipping prosecco in a Tuscan villa, while the kids are bored out of their minds?

Ransos. We don't have villa holidays, don't drink and out children are never bored apart from when travelling. They don't allow it! We spend pretty much all our time with them. We don't laze by a pool or sunbathe on a beach - we do stuff with them. That is why we are on holiday with them. We think out children are great and like spending time with them.

Actually I have said several times what we do educationally - our definition is there to be read on our earlier posts.

Ransos. We don't have villa holidays, don't drink and out children are never bored apart from when travelling. They don't allow it! We spend pretty much all our time with them. We don't laze by a pool or sunbathe on a beach - we do stuff with them. That is why we are on holiday with them. We think out children are great and like spending time with them.

Actually I have said several times what we do - our definition is there to be read on our earlier posts.

Good for you. Could you explain why this can't be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

tlr - Member
Could we please have a definitive list of other rules, laws and regulations that its ok to break because we don't agree with them.
Just so as I know.

Can you give me a list of those I'm not allowed to challenge or dislike - especially newly implemented ones. Oh actually don't worry - I've found them. They were right next to Mein Kampf on the local library shelf...

Good for you. Could you explain why this can't be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

We have gone through this already to the point if nausea... Do you not have children to teach?

We have gone through this already to the point if nausea... Do you not have children to teach?

I'm just curious as to why you found it necessary to travel to the south of France to find a rock pool.

We have taken our children out of education twice in term time - this year and last year. To assure the supposed class warriors on here as well - we have only been to Tuscany once ever...

Good for you. Could you explain why this can't be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

You are right there really is a "comprehension" problem 🙄

Oh and theirs more!

I'm just curious as to why you found it necessary to travel to the south of France to find a rock pool.

Nice and warm. Different culture, different climate.

They were right next to Mein Kampf on the local library shelf...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Nice and warm. Different culture, different climate.

Well, that's me sold. Definitely worth the kids missing school for some warmer weather and an abundance of olive oil.

Oh and theirs more!

It's "there's".

What was I saying about missing class?

There is a problem with comprehension here. So...

- Education does not simply equal school

- Respect is a two-way street

- Legislation against holidays is a bit much really

Ransos - you should try it. None of those pesky teachers around either 🙂

What was I saying about missing class?

Well as I was saying, I didnt miss any classes 🙄

I think I just had poor teachers

- Education does not simply equal school

- Respect is a two-way street

- Legislation against holidays is a bit much really

No-one is arguing otherwise. But you have yet to explain why the educational benefit of visiting a French rock pool outweighs the benefit of your kids attending class.

You'd need some pretty thick kids for a couple of weeks out of school to make any odds. If they're that thick does it really matter?

So you're agreeing that there is no net educational benefit from being taken out of class? Ok.

Ransos you need to read what people are saying on this thread other than Surfer and I. Many people are equating school with education. I do show respect to the teachers in school - we have worked effectively with them to ensure our children's education is as supported as it possibly can be. I didn't sign up to restricted holidays when my children started school - there was no policy or legislation to that end. Legislation is aimed to restrict when we can take our children on holiday.

From your posts it so obvious that your definition of a rich educational experience is limited to school. There are many ways, times and places to learn.

So you're agreeing that there is no net educational benefit from being taken out of class? Ok.

But you have yet to explain why the educational benefit of visiting a French rock pool outweighs the benefit of your kids [s]attending class[/s] watching videos and playing board games.

FIFY

They are asking you to follow some rules that nearly everyone else manages to follow, and you signed up for when you got the state to educate your kids.

Except thats not true is it? they have changed, a bit like pensions, which just goes to show you 😀

But you are conflating two things. "Taking them out for cheaper holidays" and "poor parental attitudes" dont necessarily go hand in hand. I dont take my children out of school but of the people I know who do they are some of the most committed parents with their children's well being foremost.

Well maybe they just don't get that by taking their kids out of school they are effectively telling them "school work is secondary to our ski trip/summer holiday".

we have worked effectively with them to ensure our children's education is as supported as it possibly can be

I always find that taking kids out of school is a highly effective strategy for improving educational performance 😕

you signed up for when you got the state to educate your kids.

Is this how you see it?

jamj1974 - I have a lot of sympathy for your approach, but how do expect the head / teachers to respond to your request/insistence to take them out of school in term time?

At risk of evoking Godwin's Law (again), surely they are [i]only following orders[/i] - personal issues with the head aside?

I didn't sign up to restricted holidays when my children started school - there was no policy or legislation to that end. Legislation is aimed to restrict when we can take our children on holiday.

Holidays in term time weren't allowed when I was at school, save for exceptional circumstances at the headteacher's discretion. This is nothing new.

From your posts it so obvious that your definition of a rich educational experience is limited to school. There are many ways, times and places to learn.

Well maybe they just don't get that by taking their kids out of school they are effectively telling them "school work is secondary to our ski trip/summer holiday".

Or may they are not 🙄 Its all a bit more complicated than that. I suspect the children get the message from their parents (I can only speak for a small number of friends I know who have done it) that education is the most important thing in their young lives and that it doesnt start and stop at the school gate.

The worst thing about this is - I've just bloody missed an hours worth of quality lego time on a strike day arguing with some guy I don't know on the internet.

Our perspectives obviously greatly differ. We won't agree - so let's do something more useful. Apparently we are building a ship with a small rescue submarine! I'm off to do something fun now!

You're going to have to do better than French rock pools.

😆

Is this how you see it?

It's how it is. If you don't like it, you don't have to send your child there.

geoffj - Member
jamj1974 - I have a lot of sympathy for your approach, but how do expect the head / teachers to respond to your request/insistence to take them out of school in term time?
At risk of evoking Godwin's Law (again), surely they are only following orders - personal issues with the head aside?

Pretty sure they are Geoff.

Leaving thread for today now! Really this time!

It's how it is. If you don't like it, you don't have to send your child there.

Then Ransos is right you see education through blinkers.

The only thing that's changed is taking the discretionary power out of the headteacher's hands, which frees them up from a lot of whining and wheedling from parents who have already booked their Florida jaunt in term-time. I imagine it causes heads a lot of aggro when they have to say no to a fortnight in June.

My view is that it would be nice to be able to be able to ask for the odd day here and there, and that one or two days a year missed makes sod-all difference, but some people have routinely taken the piss and spoiled it for everyone else.

The agreement that exists between the state and parents is that your kids turn up for school and the state educates them.

I really can't see how that could be simplified any further.

Those selfish idiots on here who remove their kids during term time appear to be the same bitter individuals who whine about having to look after their own kids when teachers go on strike.

My partner is a teacher - we'd love to go skiing. However, we can't afford it these days.
That's the compromise we accepted when she took the job.

Similarly, paying more for your holidays is part of the compromise the whiners made when they decided to have kids.

education is the most important thing in their young lives and that it doesnt start and stop at the school gate.

I would agree with that [b]but[/b] when little darling gets sub par gcse/a level results, putting stuff like "I saw some glaciers/ I bought a baguette/I paddled in a Mediterranean rock pool" on you CV won't really cut it.

I would agree with that but when little darling gets sub par gcse/a level results, putting stuff like "I saw some glaciers/ I bought a baguette/I paddled in a Mediterranean rock pool" on you CV won't really cut it.

Thats right and neither will "we played board games and watched videos" for the last 2 days of term! will it.
Lets compare apples with apples instead of "anything outside of school time" is bad by definition and anything "in school time" is of unquestionable value. The lines are a bit more blurred than that.

Those selfish idiots on here who remove their kids during term time appear to be the same bitter individuals who whine about having to look after their own kids when teachers go on strike.

That seems a bit harsh.

My partner is a teacher - we'd love to go skiing. However, we can't afford it these days.
That's the compromise we accepted when she took the job.

Oh I see.

That seems a bit harsh.

Oh I see.

Oh you see what?
The prices asked during school holidays are a bit daft - we'd prefer to spend the money on something else, instead of expecting special treatment like those who remove their kids during term time.

we'd prefer to spend the money on something else

Well you said you couldn't afford it ? My mistake it just came across as you know "bitter" and "whiney"

It's a compromise we accept.
The prices asked during the holidays just aren't worth it.

If it made us bitter and whiney, she wouldn't have taken the job 🙂

We're happy with the compromise, unlike those of you who feel you're entitled to special treatment.

Blimey, missed quite a party since last looking in!

I can see both sides of this argument however, hurling vitriolic abuse at teachers/heads shows a real lack of understanding as to where the legislation has come from. The rules have been around for some time with Heads having the power to 'police' them. The numbers of kids being removed from schools for holidays was growing and growing to the point where there were 50%+ absence rates in some classes either side of the official school holiday periods. Both this & the previous Government took steps to resolve the problem and we have now reached the stage where it is no longer the school's responsibility to manage it.

Simply put, the school will not have the ability to 'authorise' absences from now on and any formal request for such needs to be applied for to the LA (via the school). The LA receive all attendance data from each school and it is their decision & authority to issue penalties.

Any genuine NEED for absence should still be okay (funerals etc) however anything that is simply a WANT will be declined.

The wider argument about what is and isn't 'education' is irrelevant this is simply a case of rules being adhered to whether they are agreeable to you or not.

Abusing (verbally or otherwise) a Head or Teacher will also likely now end up costing angry parents even more:

Such parents will be prosecuted under Section 547 of the Education Act 1996. If convicted under this section, you are liable to a fine of up to £500

unlike those of you who feel you're entitled to special treatment.

Well I dont actually as I have stated above I dont take my children out during term time. I just dont see it as black and white as many of the teachers above do. My childrens education is the most important thing I just dont like teachers taking the high moral ground, generalising and name calling when they have a limited grasp of the facts.

hurling vitriolic abuse at teachers/heads shows a real lack of understanding as to where the legislation has come from

Mmm.. interesting interpretation of the facts here! Looks to me like the abuse has been coming from the other direction.

I just dont like teachers taking the high moral ground, generalising and name calling when they have a limited grasp of the facts.

Which are these 'facts' that teachers have a limited grasp of?
Sure they're not just matters of opinion?

Well you said you couldn't afford it ? My mistake it just came across as you know "bitter" and "whiney"

Mmm.. interesting interpretation of the facts here! Looks to me like the abuse has been coming from the other direction.

I was aiming at this:

Seriously the first and last time I get a bollocking from a head for my attitude to education or parenting they will leave in no doubt who is having the last word. It won't be the head teacher. There will be a winner and a loser in the frank exchange of views and I will not be losing.

I'm not an 'internet hard man' or keyboard warrior - but I will not be told by a someone whose salary I fund what to do with my child. Seriously they could go and do one

As I have said, it's not their fault.