Spinning that argument around boblo, you knowingly chose to go on an airplane which might have children on board. 'course you dont have to go on holiday mind......
[i]You have chosen to take junior in to that environment in the full knowledge that it may impact others. [b]You've decided to ignore the impact of your choices to achieve the greater good of your essential holiday[/b][/i]
This is how I see it. Sadly parents like this will raise their children to think and behave in a similar fashion and the cycle will perpetuate itself.
Its unfortunate when people fail to see that their needing a holiday, traveling by plane, doesn't give them license to inflict their children upon others.
To those who understand and respect the fact that most likely, their very young children won't travel well, and so therefore book holidays in the UK and travel by private transport.
I think you're spot on. I think you're good parents for not subjecting your children to long hours on planes, etc.
😉
To those of you who just barge your way through life and society exercising your [i]rights[/i] regardless of what your actions mean for others. You are lesser people than the sum of your parts, imo, and I pity you for not taking a more responsible, considerate role in society.
As this little island we all live on increases its population density, it would have been useful for us all to aspire to be polite, considerate and respectful to each other.
Sadly, it would appear to be the case that the opposite is the mainstream and that people seem to delight in being rude and inconsiderate to strangers.
It's probably an ego trip thing, especially in Toys19 case, where acting "heroically" is second nature and the true meaning for their existence, obviously.
🙄
One final thing. Wherever go, whatever you do.
You represent, in the eyes of the people around you, your family.
Pity then, that when people decide to be inconsiderate, they do not stop to think of how their actions reflect upon their nearest and dearest, in the eyes of the people around them.
You behave like an idiot in front of me, then on the strength of that, I'm going to assume that your entire family are like that.
Can't we all just be nicer and more considerate towards one another ?.
Can’t you just take your fly away holidays once your children are up to the journey ?, whats so difficult about waiting a few years ?.
Interesting to see all the views of the jaffas amongst us 😉
Clong - Member
Spinning that argument around boblo, you knowingly chose to go on an airplane which might have children on board. 'course you dont have to go on holiday mind......
Here we are again. The 'non parent' individual has somehow to interpret and compensate for the fact that they will have to share space with selfish oafs who consider their 'rights' trump everyone elses.
If I choose to use public transport, I guarantee, nay double guarantee, I will not interupt your peace/space etc with my noise/vomit/poo etc. I will allow all my fellow 'space users' to go about their business completely unmolested. All I ask is to share a little space and some recycled air with you.
Now then parents, would you extend me the same courtesy please?
There are some lovely ironies in that post there, momentum_2000, cant for the life of me fathom the quote thing out though and i cant be bothered to type them out.
TBH I'm not sure who are more annoying, the parents with the screaming brats that don't care, or the pious singletons / couples who have [i]made a concious decision[/i] not to have children.
A bit of tolerance works wonders - both ways that is.
Well Clong, if you can't point em out they don't exist... They're not existential ironies y know 🙂
Geoff. Is there another group: Parents that consider others who just might not relish my kids company?
Jesus, you lot really are hard of thinking sometimes.
Let's say I badly need a holiday, I'm really stressed out and all, depressed with some bad UK weather and someone's let me use their holiday home in the Algarve for free. Great! Of course I've got to take the kid with me since no-one will look after her for a week, and you know, she's a pretty good kid so I trust her to behave. However at the airport she starts crying a bit - oh no, she's coming down with a cold. When the pressure changes she starts to cry and cry like never before. Oh no! I'm so embarassed about it, and I feel really bad for everyone else on the plane, but what I can I do? I've done everthing I can and I'm absolutely exhausted but I'm still trying. These poor passengers, they are really annoyed with me... Oh well perhaps they'll be good natured enough to understand my predicament.
Perhaps not!
What are you lot going to complain about next? Bumpy flight? Congested airport? How DARE those other people want to fly into MY airport?! Traffic on the roads? Outrageous!
Sometimes a bit of tolerance makes the world a much happier place for you and everone.
Clong.
Then in that case, you and I simply do not understand each other.
A common failing, it would seem, in this place. Its Ok 😉
Geoff.
Yes, consideration and tolerance isn't being witheld, but no body should expect / demand it from me.
Also, I've no objection to children on planes. When they are old enough to travel peacefully.
Surely they calmed down by the time they're 5yrs ?.
And please people, try to exercise some restraint when accusing people of being a coal hearted, childless, so and so, etc.
You don't know everyones history...
Geoff. Is there another group: Parents that consider others who just might not relish my kids company?
Well they might not relish it, but that doesn't mean they couldn't tolerate it for a while.
molgrips - Member
Jesus, you lot really are hard of thinking sometimes.
No need for that. Just cos you don't get agreement doesn't mean people are thick.
So now you [i]really need[/i] your holiday (understandable, must be exhausting saving the planet and breeding world leaders) and you've been offered a freebie.
Cos of this the other 100 folk on the plane (assuming usual 737/A320 Algarve bus) need to tolerate whaterver you and your family throw at them.
Righty ho. Go it now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
If you get offered a holiday it doesnt mean you 'have' to. You made your choice to have children. I did not make that choice for you. Therefore, do not inflict your screaming children on me when i cant control it.
Anyone who takes a child likely to scream on a plane is a selfish ..so and so... You have a baby, live with the consequences. You cant go on holiday abroad. Fact!
Boblo, so your right's to quiet/hassle free enviroment are trumping the parents right's to use public transport?
Geoff.
Yes, considerationa and tolerance isn't being with held, but no body should expect / demand it from me.
Also, I've no objection to children on planes. When they are old enough to travel peacefully.
Surely they calmed down by the time they're 5yrs ?.And please people, try to exercise some restraint when accusing people of being a coal hearted, childless, so and so, etc.
You don't know everyones history...
Like I say, it cuts both ways.
Clong - Member
Boblo, so your right's to quiet/hassle free enviroment are trumping the parents right's to use public transport?
Not at all. I think we have equal rights and I'll guarantee not to be a pain and upset you and your family.
Will you do the same for me please?
[i]Sometimes a bit of tolerance [b]and consideration for your very young children and others[/b] makes the world a much happier place for you and everone[/i]
There, fixed that for you.
😀
As above. I'm not anti children on planes, I'm not anti children.
But there are children, and there are unhappy children travelling.
A point I think Molgrips made earlier.( I think you wrote badly behaved)
But surely theres an point, an age where air travel for young children isn't appropriate.
And in your post above, its all "me, me, me"
[i]Let's say I badly need a holiday, I'm really stressed out and all, depressed with some bad UK weather and someone's let me use their holiday home in the Algarve for free[/i]
What does your 4 month old care about any of that ?.
In that scenario, you've worked yourself into a state and then grabbed a cheap holiday. I fail to see the 4 month old nagging you to get the family to the Algarve.
😉
I hate when people aren't silent in the cinema
All I'm asking for is the right to not have to listen to other people making a noise, sniffing, coughing, rustling etc.
'bout the same as your demand boblo?
I'll go with that. Noisey people in cinemas are selfish, like the ones who put their feet on the backs of the chairs in front of them.
They obviously don't care that someone else is going to sit there soon.
And yes, I turn my phone off when in the cinema.
OMG, is the UK so full of mindlessly rude and inconsiderate people these days ?. What has happened ?.
Uplink, I'm not demanding anything. That'll be the parents 'demanding' tolerance. It's back up the thread (you know who you are 🙂 ) I'm highlighting the inequity of parental 'demands' for essential holidays and how this might impact innocents going about their business.
Re: noise in the pictures. Is that the same thing? Now if someone was shouting/crying/making a fuss in the Cinema, is that reasonable? You'd expect a bit of background noise in a cinema, you wouldn't expect a crying 4 month old child (segways back on track).
Edit:
momentum_2000 - Member
OMG, is the UK so full of mindlessly rude and inconsiderate people these days ?. What has happened ?.
Yes it is and it's gone to hell in a handcart.
No need for that. Just cos you don't get agreement doesn't mean people are thick.
I do get your argument, you don't get mine. Let me spell it out for you:
1) Babies have as much right to travel as you do
2) The parents may have had every reason to expect that their kid wouldn't bother the other passengers, but something unexpcted might have happened ie illness.
3) You don't have the right to silence on a plane I'm afraid. So suck it up. We all need to get along. Parents need to take every precaution to stop their kids annoying other people; likewise other passengers have to make every effort not to be annoyed.
4) Planes sometimes make me feel decidedly queasy. Does this mean that I should't ever fly because I might puke in the next seat to you?
Oh and by slagging off people just for having kids in the first place you are slagging off your own parents. If you are so worried about the resources kids take up you could kill yourself, that'd save a fair bit.
[i]Yes it is and it's gone to hell in a handcart[/i]
😥
Ill certainly try, but i cant guarantee it, Boblo. Just like you can't guarantee not to upset me and my family. You could be a real charmer and run off with the missus like, that be upsetting.
Seriously though you can't guarntee that, you might have offensive body odour, annoying voice etc. If i was to say anything though, i expect to be told to just deal with it.
I know i "upset" poeple on the plane, im rather broad in the shoulder and anyone of average size gets my shoulder dug into the side of them for most of the flight. No-one has said anything yet, but theres not a lot choice. If they want guaranteed space than they should've gone business class, or perhaps i should have.
Molgrips. There's no need to be rude.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone has every right to do as they wish so long as it's lawful and impacts no one else.
So long as your list complies with that, you have no argument from me. If you and your spawn need to start detracting from my environment (or the other 100 or so bods stuck with you) then, you are being selfish. It's that simple.
The ultimate precaution to avoid impacting others is to consider the outcome of your actions. By dismissing the 100 or so souls that have to tolerate whatever you child chooses to do, you are just showing them contempt.
BYW I'm not slagging off people who have kids, I have my own. I'm questioning your apparent contempt for your fellow man.
Clong. No I do, I guarantee not to offend you. I'll be up the front matey out of the way 🙂
Edit: Lemme see some pics and I'll get back to you about MrsClong 🙂
[i]You don't have the right to silence on a plane I'm afraid. So suck it up[/i]
Wrong, so wrong.
[i]We all need to get along. Parents need to take every precaution to stop their kids annoying other people; likewise other passengers have to make every effort not to be annoyed[/i]
Getting there. Allow me...
😉
[i]We [b]parents are grateful to you for your patience[/b] [s]all need to get along[/s]. [b] We Parents need to take every precaution to stop their kids annoying other people[/b]; likewise [b]we parents are grateful to [/b]other passengers [b]who [/b]have [b]made an effort[/b] [s]to make every effort not to be annoyed[/s] [b]to overlook the choas we're causing[/b][/i]
There. No !, don't thank me. You're very welcome.
🙂
You don't have the right to silence on a plane I'm afraid. So suck it up
Wrong, so wrong.
Not wrong. You don't have the RIGHT to silence.
I am obliged to take every precaution I possibly can to carry out my business without bothering anyone else. However that does not mean I have to make big sacrifices for a couple of hours of your convenience.
Taking a 4 month old on a flight
Phew thought that said 'Taking a 4 month old in a fight'
What's choas? 😉
Edit:
molgrips - MemberI am obliged to take every precaution I possibly can to carry out my business without bothering anyone else. However that does not mean I have to make big sacrifices for a couple of hours of your convenience.
That's it Moly, right there. That's the contempt that is. [i]'I can do whatever I please for up to 2 hours and stuff the lot of you'[/i].
Job and done.
By dismissing the 100 or so souls that have to tolerate whatever you child chooses to do, you are just showing them contempt.
Its not about dismissing or showing contempt, its about taking a balanced view and weighing up the impacts. Thankfully, most folk are reasonable, understand and are able to tolerate a bit of child noise.
geoffj - Member
Its not about dismissing or showing contempt, its about taking a balanced view and weighing up the impacts. Thankfully, most folk are reasonable, understand and are able to tolerate a bit of child noise.
Full circle. But you may not expect or demand it of them which is/was the crux of this discussion... You are relying on the good will of strangers to tolerate your personal peccadilloes. Is this reasonable when they have absolutely no choice in the matter (once airborne)?
I dont see not going abroad a 'sacrifice'. You made the choice not to go on a foreign holiday when you had a baby.
I understand there are circumstances that mean you do need to take your child on a plane. In my part to keep the balance, I choose to sit at the back of the plane (as they always board children to the front), and I wont bother you if you child screems the whole way.
However, if you made the choice to sit next to me with a screaming child, then I will make the choice to sit out the front of your house with my music playing full blast for the duration of a flight. Of course I could play it elsewhere, but you can also go on holiday via other modes of transport.
Full circle. But you may not expect or demand it of them which is/was the crux of this discussion... You are relying on the good will of strangers to tolerate your personal pecadiloes. Is this reasonable when they have absolutley no choice in the matter (once airborne)?
We expect and demand lots of things from lots of people day in and day out. They are the unwritten rules of life. It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect passengers to accept noise from small children on a publicly available air service.
Of course, the choice is always there - when you decide to take the flight yourself, you need to weigh up the chances of their being screaming children on it.
Choas is chaos in action is it?
boblo, 🙂 Not sure on the pictures, however send a bottle of bolly back to me in steerage and i'll see what i can do.
There's nothing so decisive as kids is there? Bottom line is, tolerance is what matters. Before father hood, i was firmly in the children shouldnt fly camp, but now....stuff that. Every decsion i make impacts someone at some level, some people may not even like the outcome and get quite upset about them.
Example, i ride to work on a busy road, a fair few drivers have expressed their annoyance at being stuck behind a cyclist? Should i not ride or should i "demand" a bit of tolerance?
ads-b: Wasn't aware that i had restrict my life just because i had a child. Thanks for that. BTW, you couldn't play music outside my house as loud as you like, theres a law against that i believe.
You made the choice not to go on a foreign holiday when you had a baby.
Really? Who told you that? Any other places you've decided to ban sections of the human race from?
DrJ, you are wasting your internet breath, the hard of thinking and logically challenged are out in force.
Now now, Toys. Don't be naughty, Moly is Mr. Insulty tonight. It's your turn tomorrow.
It's not an insult, it's a statement of fact, if the truth insults you then that is your problem.
LOL at what people think their rights are!! 🙄
YOU are choosing to take a form of public transport. Unless that form of transport specifically has a statement saying no children then you should expect to experience children.
If you don't want to experience it then you have some choices - 1st class, private aircraft, go by boat in private cabin. No one is MAKING you mix with other members of society.
What's next, expecting to drive on the road without seeing an idiot? Expecting to go to a football match and not hear someone swearing!!
🙄
If you werent aware, when you have a child it has a huge impact on your way of life in many ways. Loss of sleep, loss of flexibility.... loss of the ability to confine yourself in a metal box with complete strangers for hours on end. Its selfish on so many levels to take a child on a plane. I honestly would question your moral and parenting skills/responsibilities if you thought it was fair for the child or the general public.
Even if I sat outside your house with music at legal levels for two hours, I think you would be quite rightly pretty peeved with me, hence i wont do it. The same works in reverse.
p.s. until recently smoking in public places was legal. Now you try and tell me that was the wrong thing to do. Im sure most people were less bothered about the small risk of passive smoking than the stench and annoyance it caused.
I honestly would question your moral and parenting skills/responsibilities if you thought it was fair for the child or the general public
Probably the funniest thing I've heard this year so far. 😀
Probably the funniest thing I've heard this year so far.
Indeed!
the general public
I suspect you'll find that the majority of the general public understand and sympathise with parents who have children that are crying.
It tends to be the [i]lifestyle choicers[/i] who make the noise on this. Empty barrels and all that....
p.s. until recently smoking in public places was legal.
I think you'll find it still is
ads-b. I was deliberately not questioning parenting skills as that would probably end badly.... For me, expecting people to put up with whatever you throw at them is just selfish and conceited.
Your smoking example is a good one. Anyone recall the old anti smoking tale? The one about the the smoker stinking everyone out with the output of their activity and then the drinker asking if it was OK to pis$ all over people (specifically the smoker) with their output?
