So ads-s, if my daughter was to sit queiltly on the plane, reading her books or playing with her teddies and not disturb anyone, is that selfish? Is that bad parenting? Presumably, if you opposed to the idea of children being confined inside a metal box with strangers, it is selfish to take them on a public train or public bus too?
Key word being public.......
Clong. Yer dint ask me but if she behaves (no screaming/vomit/poo) then that's fine 🙂 Slip her some of the Bolly and she might evn sleep a bit.
Wow, ads-b, now you're questioning the parenting skills of total strangers because we may choose to take a child on an aeroplane? Is it ok if I take my little girls on a train...that ok by you? How about a bus? Ok to walk them down the pavement in your general vicinity? Are you for real?
loss of the ability to confine yourself in a metal box with complete strangers for hours on end. Its selfish on so many levels to take a child on a plane.
Only if the child causes a nuisance. Or if you expect the child to cause a nuisance. Not all kids do. I've never been on a plane where there was a baby that cried persistently, despite there being usually two or three babies at least each time I fly, so it's hardly the norm.
Anyway. If you can't cope with members of the general public (that includes babies) then surely YOU should be the one refraining from sitting in a metal box with a load of us?
when you decide to take the flight yourself, you need to weigh up the chances of their being screaming children on it.
Yeah or just take some flippin earplugs.
That's it Moly, right there. That's the contempt that is. 'I can do whatever I please for up to 2 hours and stuff the lot of you'.
That's ridiculous. I go out of my way to be considerate all the time, far far more than most people do. I do not do whatever I please regardless of anyone else.
The point is that we ALL need to co-operate. The plane is not YOUR space, it is a public space. And babies cry sometimes. You need to be prepared to deal with it. There are lots of other annoyances when flying, aren't there?
By the way, my child has not yet screamed for an entire flight or even for more than a minute or two. When ever she looked like causing a fuss and bothering anyone, I took her out to the back of the plane away from anyone, or spent literally hours walking her up and down the plane or otherwise entertaining her SO SHE WOULDN'T ANNOY ANYONE. Damned inconsiderate git that I am.
Can’t you just take your fly away holidays once your children are up to the journey ?, whats so difficult about waiting a few years ?.
Actually, kids are a lot easier on planes when they're babies. Toddlers are a nightmare, and things only really get easier when they're about 4-5 years old.
As for whether or not people should take small children on holiday: absolutely. Even a 4mth old kid will enjoy having his or her parents to themselves, without washing up / work / whatever getting in the way. Toddlers love the beach. And a kid has as much right to use public transport as anyone else.
As for whether or not people should take small children on holiday: absolutely. Even a 4mth old kid will enjoy having his or her parents to themselves, without washing up / work / whatever getting in the way.
And you need to be in a different country to do this?
Deal, boblo, make sure its a good vintage though.
The smoking one isn't bad example in other ways. I cant stand smoking, hate it on every level, but before the ban i'd often go for a drink for freinds down the pub. Clothes, hair etc would stink, but i accepted that was what would happen if i wanted to go to the pub.
Can’t you just take your fly away holidays once your children are up to the journey ?, whats so difficult about waiting a few years ?.
I'm not sure if I would take a small child on a foreign holiday. I take my child abroad so that she can see and get to know the American half of her family. I considering this pretty important, and hence worth the trouble.
The majority of people on transatlantic flights appear to be doing the same thing.
Shoe on other foot...
Your kid is causing a racket- crying, screeeming etc... I say poiltely, 'can you move away and stand in the kitchen/toilet area for the entire of the journey?'. How do you take it?????
Shoe on other foot...Your kid is causing a racket- crying, screeeming etc... I say poiltely, 'can you move away and stand in the kitchen/toilet area for the entire of the journey?'. How do you take it?????
I'd ask you to speak to one of the staff regarding your options
We fly our 6 month old, from Beijing to London.
BA gave us a bulk head seat, and a basenet (spelling??) and allowed us to check in on the 1st class counter.
We found the Basenet(?) not only to small, but also faced the wrong direction. When he woke up, he was facing something he was completely alien to.
A comfort toy helps. In the end, he slept in his mothers arms all the time, and actually, people nearby, especially those who have had children, try and play/keep happy the child.
You'll be fine, worst case, it's only x hours 😉
ads-b: Moot point, i'd already have moved as, like most parents and with their own children, i find my child's crying distressing and will do all i can calm her down.
By the way, you have yet to answer the question about taking children on other forms of transport.
And you need to be in a different country to do this?
Not at all, although as I mentioned many pages ago if I want my kids to see my elderly grandmother I don't have a great deal of choice. But my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.
Realistically there are very few parents who would fly more than a couple of hours with small children, unless (like Travis I imagine) it's the only way to see family. And most people will do their best to limiit the amount of annoyance their kids cause - whether it be on a flight, a bus, wherever.
contradicting ones self....
other people have feelings
Not at all, although as I mentioned many pages ago if I want my kids to see my elderly grandmother I don't have a great deal of choice. But my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.
Trebuchet? 😛
I'm going on holiday next week - if anyone's flying to the Dominican, I apologise in advance for my incessant cough during the 9.5 hour flight.
As long as you don't cry loudly no one will complain. 😉
children lovem but cant eat a whole one
I have flown a bit in my time not a huge amount though mainly short-medium but a few long haul as well.
Taking young kids <3 esp when more than one why? unless visiting family, when they get sick what a pain in the ass. My friend was in Egypt with his family (wife and 2 snappers) when his wife went down with food poisonning he had to stay an extra week (unpayed)and argue-arrange a new hotel and sort it out , the reps were okish as was the tour company but only because hes a determined bugger.
Mid-long
My mates wife has flown to HK with her boy since was about 9 months but she plans it
good airline
good flight times
takes food the boy likes
toys etc
takes his fav jimjams and blanket
emergency cowpol and other such stuff
check in early to get a window and middle seat
and strangely shes never had any probs
then others turn up with nothing an expect the airline to provide
oh
My bro has 3 snappers of various ages and 2 dogs and MIL who all go on hols together and the got a time shave on a canal boat and without exception they all love it and go as ofter as they can. I call it a floating caravan but I digress.
Anyway it will be all irrelevent in a few years as the majority will be no longer able to afford to fly
mogrim - MemberBut my kids still have just as much of a right to go on holiday as you do, regardless of the means of transport.
Yawn... As much right to go but no more right to aggravate everybody else on the flight....
Yawn... As much right to go but no more right to aggravate everybody else on the flight....
Yawn indeed: as has been pointed out many times very few people set out with the intention of aggravating people on a flight, but children are children and it happens sometimes. Assuming the parents are doing their best to stop, most people make allowances for the fact they're small, some don't. I'd suggest that these people do their best to get over it: the airlines want our money more than they're worried about possible loss of custom to overly delicate childhaters.
Enough of this thread, it's getting boring and repetitive. If you don't wish to understand my position, don't. I certainly don't agree with yours 🙂
😆overly delicate childhaters
Nicely put mogrim
Can we then ban chair kickers, coughers, loved up couples, people who get up and down all the time, window openers and heavy drinkers from flights?
I'm quite looking forward to taking the new arrival when it comes to see the MIL in Thailand. I will especially enjoy it knowing that I could be sat beside someone who is going to get irritated at the slightest noise she makes.
Bit of a tangent - but I wonder if parenting has seen a change in standards over recent years. I say this as we had a conversation about this over Christmas. We were in a restaurant and the table next to us had kids. Between ordering and being served the kids ran riot around the restaurant (not a glorified pub or fast food joint; a proper restaurant) playing hide seek/ chase. At one point one of them (about 6 or 7) decided to try and hide under our table. I think I might actually have told him to f*** off. All the while the parents chatted oblivious. All very anecdotal but I seem to see more and more kids behaving in a way that I simply would not have got away with. Part of bringing up kids is educating them how to behave outside of the home. Not that relevant to the baby on a plane debate but maybe another indicator of how "modern" parents are increasingly less concerned about the impact their brood has on those around them.
They operate within the 'me, me, me' bubble. The walls are opaque and they cannot see out and observe the impact of their/their offsprings behaviour.
You were lucky they didn't turn on you and accuse you of being a See You Next Tuesday for daring to be so intolerant. Little Johnny is adorable after all.
Between ordering and being served the kids ran riot around the restaurant
Probably the parents had been one of those aeroplane things and seen that in other countries kids are not expected to be seen and not heard like constipated Brits are used to.
DrJ. Funny you should say that. Go to Europe (France/Italy say) and the kids join in the family meal and behave like humans. No txting, no sulky teenage antics at 5 years old etc. Just good old family life. It's a pleasure to be around.
OK DrJ - would YOU be prepared to play hide and seek around a restaurant? If not, why should a child think it's ok? If you tried to hide under my table I would have punched the crap out of you! There is a BIG difference between "being seen but not heard" and acting in manner that is appropriate to the environment - this was an "grown up" adult environment and children entering such should be taught by their parents to act accordingly. I spent lots of time in such places at a similar age acting normally and have very happy memories of them and certainly didn't feel oppressed.
Probably the parents had been one of those aeroplane things and seen that in other countries kids are not expected to be seen and not heard like constipated Brits are used to.
Thread's moved on, so I'm back.
In very child-friendly Spain kids are allowed to make a certain amount of noise, but wouldn't usually run around a restaurant - and certainly not start hiding under someone else's table.
If my kid wants to run around and play hide and seek in restaurant she gets proper told off. I would say she receives a right rollocking but that's not necessary because she pretty much behaves herself 🙂
I wouldn't say it's any worse now than it ever was. This is why people years ago imagined the class divisions. Perhaps in the 50s everyone was straining to put on a good show, but that wasn't healthy 🙂
If I was being bothered by kids like that I'd have a word with the parents.
I have a horrible feeling I might have started all this off (I misunderstood toys' original point - though he didn't really make it all that clear) - ironic really given in my first post I mentioned taking our 18mo to the Canaries!
Depends - IME our almost 4yo was a lot more trouble than his little brother (though not a pain to anybody else on the flight - little one also gets away with more as he's a lot cuter!)Toddlers are a nightmare, and things only really get easier when they're about 4-5 years old.
