[Closed] Tackling obesity.

Those comments are a little at odds with previous posts by the same, claming the Gov is there to improve our lives.

If you want to eat like shit and be overweight then that is your choice. I dont think I or the state have the right to deny folk this. I also think everyone knows the message they just chose not to do it. Furthermore this choice does not - paying for it aside- have any impact on me personally so what has it got to do with me?

Its probably not unreasonable to point out this is generally at odds with my views and i noted this point that I sounded like a tory talking about personal responsibility rather than state intervention.

I don't believe that a substantial number of parents are equipped to properly do this

When the problems are at a societal level, rather than merely a few individuals it is appropriate for government to intervene

educating you in physics

Am not the greatest supporter of politicians but the "blaming the government" crap today is way OTT. Spent a lot of time driving so was listening to all the phone ins and debate.

So does the government but your kids the soft drink
Does the government buy the second chocolate bar with the rest of the goods
Does the government place the sweets next to the counter.
Do they put them in the trolley
Did they change pack lunches to easy crap

Did they ****

We will tackle obesity when people take responsibility for their actions. Yes, educate and yes inform. But at the end of the day, it's up to each and everyone of us to make the correct choices. Placing the blame elsewhere is simply a cop out.

@junkyard...you should read some sociology books re how people internalise the norms of society and how our attitudes, behaviours, values etc are created...you might realise how the 'personal responsibility' argument you feel strongly about gets a bit complicated to defend...

Edit: seeing what you wrote thm...I agree, you cannot solely blame others but, and it's a big but, to tackle obesity the individuals and government have to take equal responsibility....e.g. how can an individual tell whats a lie and what's not re.healthy choice and advertising?

you might realise how the 'personal responsibility' argument you feel strongly about gets a bit complicated to defend.

However sometimes folk like to blame others for their issues and i think this is one of them. If i am unhealthy its not because the options are not there its because i dont take them.

I am accepting, due to the arguments voiced here that we need to make sure all citizens understand the issues and the reason - i think they largely do tbh- and then it is really the realm of personal responsibility.

EVB I credit people with some intelligence. They can engage their brains and open their eyes. Buy the fruit not the chocolate, the water not the Fanta, have some will not to buy the sweets at the counter. We place this stuff in our mouths, we are not force fed by the government nor the companies that sell the shite.

So no it's not equal responsibility at all. Fine for governments to invest in education and legislate re transparent labelling etc. But, the real solution, lies in our hands not theirs.

Not saying it's easy. I made a bad choice today (added the pret brownie to the otherwise healthy lunch. That was unnecessary and stupid. Who's to blame? Me and me alone. And now taking my old mum out to supper, so I have to make choices again. We shall see....

Tackling obesity is also about creating a society where people are able to move properly and sleep properly...moving and sleeping are crucial to a healthy body. Our workaholic, stressed lives do nothing to promote this. Is it the individuals fault their mortgage, gas bills, fuel bills, food bills aren't covered by their wages? People working long hours to pay the bills contributes to our reliance on fast food/poor choices thereby increasing obesity...

People cant cook now and buy rubbish .Real food is much cheaper than processed rubbish

@thm...so why is the nation obese? Why are poor choices being made since you think we know what's right and wrong?

Apropos of, well, I'm not sure, but the lad that sits next to me at work, who I guess is about 23/24, can, by his own admission, cook nothing. He has no idea how to prepare the most basic of ingredients or do the basic cooking techniques (you know, like browning off onions and mince to make spag bol/chilli/cottage pie/shepherd's pie etc etc)

Now, I was taught that kind stuff in school. Why wasn't he? If we don't teach basic cooking skills, ready meals will be the go to option, and they're full of fat/salt/sugar yadda yadda...

And another thing, me and the little lady once spent six months traveling around Europe, from Norway to Romania, seventeen countries in all. The two most striking impressions on our return to Blighty were
1) the roads are ****ing awful
2) the people look really, really unhealthy

Anyway, apologies for the slightly incoherent post, I'm sat in the garden enjoying a massive G&T and a bowl of crisps 🙂

I think healthy eating has a real image problem in this country: It's seen as being weird, obsessive, tantamount to vegetarianism (no that there's anything wrong with vegetarianism), being a hypochondriac etc. On the other hand, fast food is seen as being cool, eaten by those on the go, associated with activity and social activities (hence my comment about banning it from sports sponsorship).

I'm not really sure I buy the cost thing as, for an example, porridge is generally cheaper to buy the raw ingredients for than these unhealthy, sugar-laden cereals. Similarly, salads are fairly low cost meals, as is a baked sweet potato and some kind of healthy filling.

I do agree that the British way of life isn't very conducive to healthy eating, but I think that partly relates to the image problem I refer to above: No one wants to make time for eating properly. Regular exercise is also affected in a similar manner. People tend to see exercise as an annoyance, rather than a way of life.

no one on here I would suggest would think for a minute the govt pressure on smoking is anything other than positive, banning smoking in pubs and restaurants was once seen as the death knell for the industry, now no one bats an eyelid about the fact that they are hidden behind sliding doors in supermarkets. As a result smoking rates have declined and health outcomes are improving.

While there has to be individual responsibility, none of us are islands to ourselves, we are a society, and if we want that society to be healthier, then sometimes larger decisions about how much sugar there is in our children's diets should be made at a societal level.

Obesity is rising...fact. we've had an ideology of personal responsibility for last ten years or so under Conservative and Labour. Clearly it's not working and we need another solution.

@thm et al. who are adamant it's personal responsibility. You need to be more open minded since empirical evidence is demonstrating your theory is not working. Some on here have offered alternatives but all you can do is stick by a failed theory of 'persoanl responsibility'amd shoot down the suggestions. Then again, we all know where the theory comes from and why it's here so it's hardly surprising that some people stick with it even when it's failing the majority...

EVB - sorry for the delay, as I said I have been taking my mum out for dinner - ok choices but not perfect!!!

Given that it's largely, but not exclusively, individual reasons, the answers are multiple. One thing it is not, is the fault of any government. That's simply a cop out.

Was on holiday a few weeks ago with buffet breakfasts. Odd that the slim people had plates of fresh fruit and the obese people had muffins, pancakes, fried bread etc. Not a politician in sight. Not difficult to understand.

We demonstrate many aspects of a society in decline. A failure to take responsibility is one symptom of that.

No one is force feeding you chips, pizza , biscuits and pop

Advertising is giving us poor information that we are supposed to learn and educate ourselves from. Lower education standards is part of the problem and an objective of the same said govt. 👿 But that's another argument.
Yes, parents have to take responsibility but they're under huge pressures from advertisers and false information.
Sugar is addictive and should be treated as such. Blaming the parents is a poor argument.

Whether it's the fault of government is very, very different to whether it's appropriate for government to intervene. It's not the government's fault if you drink drive but i doubt anyone thinks that means they shouldn't intervene when someone is caught drink driving or try to prevent it.

. The two most striking impressions on our return to Blighty were

2) the people look really, really unhealthy

We went to Barcelona for a week last year. Had a great week of walking 10+ miles a day exploring the city, surrounded by sophisticated, easy-on-the-eye Spaniards and other European tourists.

The day after we got back I was sitting in an asda cafe next to the garage waiting for my car's MOT to be done. It was awful, as I looked around at people in the café, in the shop, crossing the car park, at the bus stop I realised I was surrounded by pale, flabby, sometimes smelly, clammy looking people. Like you say, so many people just looked unhealthy.

As I've already said, it's just not what we're eating that needs to be looked at, the elephant in the room is how much of what we eat gets burnt off. It's just not addressed, apart from some occasional token gesture of giving each school a tenner each to buy a couple of footballs. We need to change our environment and our society to make waddling to the car to drive a 2 mile journey as strange as cycling that distance is now.

One thing it is not, is the fault of any government. That's simply a cop out.

I don't think anyone had said it's the govt's fault. I think some posters have suggested it does need govt intervention (as opposed to voluntary agreements which everyone understands are pointless) to help some people with their relationship with poor food choices. In the same way as govts helped people to help themselves to give up fags...

Well said Bails.
I was in Stockholm last week went to a few museums with junior. I noticed a few things 1 they all give clumsey idiots on crutches a wheel chair 2. The food in the cafes was all salads and healthy sandwiches, no chips and 3 the people look much thinner and healthier.

I'm not opposed to a sugar tax but if gov wants to reduce obesity it needs to think about how our kids are treated in society. Can they ride to school safely? Can they play out without being run over by a car or having misplaced hysteria about peados. Are sports clubs easy to get to and cheap to join? What point is 30 olympic golds for GB if only a few can hope to follow in their foot steps or at least dream of being a medalist whilst playing atca lower level. Are out door spaces safe and svailable for use. What goes in is only half of the story is our perception of risk killing our kids?

I think healthy eating has a real image problem in this country: It's seen as being weird, obsessive, tantamount to vegetarianism (no that there's anything wrong with vegetarianism), being a hypochondriac etc. On the other hand, fast food is seen as being cool, eaten by those on the go, associated with activity and social activities (hence my comment about banning it from sports sponsorship).

I think that, once again, this is hugely complex - If you look at, for example, the history of Hovis, you will see that the preoccupation with healthy eating was a very 'middle class' thing all the way back to victorian times, so this whole thing has to be seen in the context of cheap food for the masses - plus a preoccupation with 'Bonny Babies' and weight gain as a sign of strength/health in young age.

Of course we can't ignore the effect of WW2 on the generations before us - firstly that of rationing, our parents were the ones who gorged themselves in 1953 when confectionary stopped being rationed, but also women beginning to work on a hitherto unseen scale, throw in the pill and women being told that they could 'have it all' with a career and family, so less time for cooking and the growth of ready meals.

Hugely complex social aspects at play here.

edit - worth a read, Orwells take on things in [i]Wigan Pier[/i]: http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/5.html

I agree Nick and said so earlier

We have a public health service. Of course the government should be taxing sugar, banning advertising to children and generally taking all the measures that have been successful for improving public health for tobacco.

Take individual responsibility you say? Right, who has time to read all the ingredients? People are very trusting that the shiny packaging is entirely benevolent and good. Others just live in a world of cognitive dissonance.

There should be massive warning lights and a hooter should sound every time anyone picks up a packet of Coco Pops. Someone kindly should emerge from a neighbouring aisle and gently retrieve it, explaining that it contains deadly amounts of sugar, a fast track to diabetes and an early grave. Coca Cola should only be allowed if you can produce your endurance event entry and training plan. All pastries should only sold in shops accessible by foot at least 3 miles from surfaced roads. Sorted.

I realised I was surrounded by pale, flabby, sometimes smelly, clammy looking people

Take individual responsibility you say? Right, who has time to read all the ingredients?

Everyone. Is it important or not?

People are very trusting that the shiny packaging is entirely benevolent and good.

More fool them. But as I said, education is key. Governments should focus there.

But FFS is not hard to realise that coco pops is a bad choice.

Coco Pops sales still total £54 million per year according to the Grocer. 12.8 million kgs FFS.

That's more than a few people who haven't worked out that they're a 'bad choice' / have given into their children's mithering / are addicted to sugar.

It takes <1 min to google the nutritional facts re Coco Pops

Loads of Olympic athletes have been tweeting pictures of themselves eating Maccy Ds. That's a confusing message to kids if there ever was one. I wonder if Maccy Ds have a hand in the tweets?

Olympic athletes are training 5 hrs a day 6 days a week, they can afford the odd indulgence. Get our kids doing 30hrs exercise a week and we won't have a national obesity epidemic anymore.

It takes <1 min to google the nutritional facts re Coco Pops

Calories in 100g porridge oats - 384
Calories in 100g coco-pops - 387
Calories in 100g special K - 378

Massive difference, eh?

Sod porridge oats then, I'd rather have coco pops as part of my nutritious breakfast coz they are only 3 more Calories and they turn the milk chocolatey.

Calories in 100g porridge oats - 384 Sugar 0g
Calories in 100g coco-pops - 387 Sugar 39g
Calories in 100g special K - 378 Sugar 12g

Massive difference, eh?

Dig a bit deeper and there is.
Again the heavily advertised healthy option still has an unecessary 12g of sugar. Do people still put a spoon of sugar on these thing too?
I don't think thm understands how addictions work.

But.. I'd rather have a bowl of Coco pops!

Sugar enhanced food is the scourge of modern society. Refined suguar and hydrogenated oils are the Devils work. Couple this with a generally lazy and entitled society and within a few generations we've become like a vision from the film Wall-e...

It's almost like people don't mind being fat.. As it's now normal.

Olympic athletes are training 5 hrs a day 6 days a week, they can afford the odd indulgence. Get our kids doing 30hrs exercise a week and we won't have a national obesity epidemic anymore.

It takes <1 min to google the nutritional facts re Coco Pops

If you can read and understand it. Also if you know enough to be worried enough about nutrition I doubt you need to google it anyway.

Since some people think the state shouldn't intervene and it's down to poor choices...are you therefore in favour of legalising drugs since it's all about choices. How about acoholism? Would you waft bottles of beer in front of your alcoholic friend and when they cave in blame them for being weak willed? Smoking. Clealy a mistake intervening ...although hang on hsn't that helped the situation? Must just be a coincidence.

The state intervenes on loads of stuff for the benefit of it's people..only reason they dont't on sugar e.g. sweets in front of kids faces to encourage them, high sugar content food advertising, little regulation of the take-away market (ever wondered how much salt is in your local takeaway curry? You should wonder because no one is checking for you) is because money talks and the sugar lobby is so powerful...

I hoped that one of the things that came out of hosting the Olympics, and the success since Beijing, was a new found interest in healthy activity for the UK public: As it happens, they looked up from their pizzas for 5 minutes, cheered, and went to back to their mainly sedentary lifestyles.

You can only show them the door, you can lead a horse to water etc etc.

If you can read and understand it.

Are you suggesting that people can do neither?

EVB who is saying that there is no role for the state?

Education and taxes are powerful tools when correctly used together.

Are you suggesting that people can do neither?

More than you think I expect

I suspect that we merely disagree on the correct verb!

Myfitnesspal is a godsend. I made the bad choice about a year ago to buy a Costa coffee and aargh their millionaire's shortbread while waiting for a delayed train. Checked the nutritional content on mfp and was shocked. But learned the lessons (almost ! )

Shouldn't we be blaming biology teachers though 😉 or is nutrition off syllabus 😉 ?

If you can read and understand it.

Are you suggesting that people can do neither?

Go spend a few 100 hours online gaming.
It will beat any optimism you have about the general population right out of you.
Reading - maybe
Understanding - not a chance

The referendum did that!

Shouldn't we be blaming biology teachers though or is nutrition off syllabus ?

Its on it but it always amazes me that so many 15 year olds dont already know about carbs or fats or protein through general living and talking with parents.

The government has declined to tackle obesity seriously because they have a secret plan. Brexit has made oil imports more expensive, so they're going to render fat people down for oil to help out with the balance of payments and reduce the NHS costs at the same time.

But.. I'd rather have a bowl of Coco pops!

But.. I'd rather have a bowl of Coco pops!

I think this is a massive part of the problem... generations of people literally brainwashed into believing that the only thing they can eat for breakfast is cereal, and that industrially processed rice/wheat from a packet is actually good for you and/or a proper meal.

People only have themselves to blame, as for a large section of society it's always somebody else's problem as to why they are fat or have a poor diet.
All part of the blame culture, its easy to point your finger at somebody else and not address your own failings.

I see these people in the supermarkets every day, their trollies are full of boxes and packets that are a riot of colour/refined white flour/sugar/high GI processed foods.

There is no excuse.