[Closed] Tackling obesity.

The power of advertising to promote is different to that to dissuade. It's in the interests of the drinks companies etc. to promote their products as without sales they are dead. They can outspend governments easily.

If you want to know what works then go for things the industry complains about, smoking bans, plane packaging and taxes were all fought hard but seem to be working there.

The government have caved to food industry interests at the expense of the people they're supposed to be serving, and trotted out the excuse that they're protecting jobs and profits in the food industry at a time of post Brexit economic uncertainty. It's shameful.

We all know that people will do whatever they have to in order pay for their addiction as with continued price hikes on ciggies and high prices for alcohol.

Cool. Keep whacking up the tax if people will pay it. I have no problems with optional tax. Give the money to the NHS to offset fat related problems, or give skinnies a tax cut on lycra and tight jeans.

Obesity costs the NHS more than smoking, a combined approach of education, advertising bans and high tax have helped bring rates down massively.

Sadly the government has bowed to pressure from food industry lobbyists again (they also blocked traffic light labeling)

It's political expediency at the expense of peoples lives,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/20/obesity-bigger-cost-than-war-and-terror

But long term the cost to the country is much greater

Health promotion needs to be tackled at individual, cultural and structural levels.

Very simplistically, the healthy choice has to be made the easiest choice. Right now it's not. Fast food is (often) cheaper and quicker than healthy food, gym membership is expensive and childcare is an issue for many, long working hours at improper desks creates issues (stand-up desks are the norm in some other countries), cycling is dangerous on the roads, lack of decent street lighting might put off lone females exercising late at night etc etc...

I'm always amazed how health institutions don't make the healthy choice the easiest choice. In our local hospital, it's cheaper to buy a homemade flapjack than it is to buy a fresh apple or bananas. That just seems mental to me...

I think May has looked short term at the next few month's worth of headlines and decided that share value of Coca-Cola is a more pressing issues post-brexit than kids getting fatter, after all she won't be PM when they're fat adults

its not a good idea - like voluntary regulation ever works anywhere- but then again - like smoking- who TF does not know its bad for them

If you eat poor food, or your kids do, it really is your fault rather than the fault of the purveyors of the shit you eat
Dont buy crap, by fruit and veg, cook your own meals, exercise- its not complicated or unknown advice

Take some personal responsibility rather than feeling like its someone else fault you or your kids drink 3 cans of fizzy pop every day

That said I would have also regulated the industry greater as "voluntary regulation" is the same as not bothering

I'm of an odd view in that I'm not going to have a pop at the soft drinks people.

I had to look at sugar intake thanks to an early genetic expiry stamped on my pancreas. The drinks companies all offer suitable zero sugar alternatives and the only alternative is a more expensive make your own option.

What I couldn't get past is the added sugar in yoghurt, bread or breakfast cerials. Many big brand yoghurts and cerials are 20% sugars.

I joked at forst that it would be safer for me to eat the contents of the detergent aisle than any other in the supermarket.

I get that there is evidence that for young kids there is evidence that a large proportion of their calories are from soft drinks, what I don't get is why it's not acceptable to find out why people avoid the zero sugar drinks and at the same time penalise the likes of Muller-Wiseman and Kellogs for their added sugar.

The problem is so much more than soft drinks.

The Sugar Bureau /Sugar Council are powerful, nasty, dangerous, remorseless organisation that have been burying reports/careers and influencing government policies for years and years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10634081/John-Yudkin-the-man-who-tried-to-warn-us-about-sugar.html

They could ban junk food manufacturers (coca cola, Carlsberg, McDs etc) from sponsoring sporting events for a start. Associating that stuff with fitness activities is misguided at best.

Conservative government does what industry wants at the expense of the public shocker. It was always going to be like this. People can go stuff themselves provided the rich keep getting richer.

Conservative government does what industry wants at the expense of the public shocker. Conservative government does what industry wants at the expense of the public shocker.

It has nothing to do with which bunch of muppets are in charge. Stopping people eating what they like to eat isn't a vote winner.

If you eat poor food, or your kids do, it really is your fault rather than the fault of the purveyors of the shit you eat
Dont buy crap

much "crap food" is heavily advertised as being very good for you. It's often very difficult to distinguish what's actually good for you and what's not.

Orange juice, for example, healthy? right? I mean it's fruit juice, isn't that good for you?

Fair point on that but honestly 99% of folk who eat poorly know they eat poorly

The way they look in the mirror cannot hide this fact - no offence meant on that point as not a body fascist

Yes fruit smoothies may be a grey area but fizzy pop and biscuits is not]

This is about the childhood obesity strategy
I'm sure kids are aware of their body image etc, but smoking adverts near schools are banned, but equally harmful junk food ads in popular kids programmes are not

= Huge government failure

Take some personal responsibility rather than feeling like its someone else fault you or your kids drink 3 cans of fizzy pop every day

This. Personally i'm massively against a sugar tax as it penalises everyone else that enjoys these drinks responsibly. Absolutely nothing wrong with that can of coke when you are half bonked and 30 miles from home on the bike.

And if any tax extended to cover isotonic sports drinks you'd be actively punishing people at the opposite end of the spectrum to those you are targeting.

Take some personal responsibility rather than feeling like its someone else fault you or your kids drink 3 cans of fizzy pop every day

junkyard - you want to be careful up there on your high horse, it sounds like if you fall off you'll have no fat to protect you (unlike obese people)...

Whilst I think food/drink agrivate the problem, and something in our education system and culture exacerbate that particularly for those who perhaps need it most, I firmly believe that even if you made it illegal to sell/give sugary drinks to under 16s you wouldn't solve the issue (I think the country's relationship with alcohol gives us a clue there!). The issue is not really one of intake, it's one of sedentary lifestyles.

Sugar is also one of the most addictive things we know of, get hooked early and it's almost impossible to kick the habit

Once you are obesse your hormone levels are changed for life, they never drop even if you lose the weight, the gut is the largest hormone producing organ in the body

This is why gastric bypass surgery is so effective, not because it makes your stomach smaller but because it removes the chemical drivers that dictate your eating habits , it's also why diabetes disappears virtually overnight after surgery

Education doesn't work, people are selfish ****s and will do as they please.

= Huge government failure

and a huge parent failure

Essentially if my kids are fat its my fault not the governments and not the food industry

I accept neither of these are helping but everyone knows the healthy eating message- its not complicated - just as they know the drink in moderation message and the dont smoke message

Not everyone listens though.

SHit i sound like a tory going on about personal responsibility

If i fall from high horse i will gently float to the ground as i am so slight 😉

I do get both sides of this and the industry does not help but there has to be a point where folk take responsibility for what they do rather than keep blaming others

No one is force feeding you chips, pizza , biscuits and pop

This. Personally i'm massively against a sugar tax as it penalises everyone else that enjoys these drinks responsibly.

I treat my slaves responsibly, Why should I have to give up my slaves just because other people can't treat them well...

hyperbole, but you know, society....

Essentially if my kids are fat its my fault not the governments and not the food industry

...sort of. But you know that supermarkets put sweets where small kids can reach them, so why not just make that illegal? If we can and do hide fags, and we know that sweets are going to be just as dangerous to the future of our childrens health, then why not start doing something about it now? It means that we don't have to face the same issues that decades of smoking has done.

I treat my slaves responsibly, Why should I have to give up my slaves just because other people can't treat them well...

Is that like 'when did you stop beating your wife'? Just less clever and more stupid?

But you know that supermarkets put sweets where small kids can reach them, so why not just make that illegal?

KIds illegal are you mad 😉

I agree its not helpful but its a parents responsibility to teach kids about life
Part of that is to explain why eating crap and not exercising is a bad idea

It helps that there are so many fat people to point at when doing this 😛

KIds illegal are you mad

seems perfectly sensible to me 😆

Its not just a food issue, in my opinion the government for far too long have been very passive on the nation's health, they should be doing a lot more such as encouraging people to use bikes instead of cars for journeys less than five miles.

Lower obesity, NHS less stretched due to better overall population health, less pollution.

My wifes friend is a nutritionist, working for the NHS going round schools etc doing healthy cooking demos and giving advice etc, she really knows her stuff.

Her kids diet is ****ing abysmal.

Once you are obesse your hormone levels are changed for life, they never drop even if you lose the weight, the gut is the largest hormone producing organ in the body

This is why gastric bypass surgery is so effective, not because it makes your stomach smaller but because it removes the chemical drivers that dictate your eating habits , it's also why diabetes disappears virtually overnight after surgery

Internet woo woo alert, sources and peer reviewed studies please 🙂

Did anyone see the guy talking about this on BBC news this morning? I thought the presenters were awful, he was trying to talk about how the strategy is really weak and short sighted, how it needs to look at the environment that surrounds us and how that makes us more likely to make bad choices on food and exercise. The presenters just kept interrupting him to basically say "So?!" and "Isn't it all really the parent's fault?".

Some studies show that we're eating less than we have in the past, but that's still too much because we're moving less: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10126042/Britons-getting-fatter-despite-consuming-fewer-calories.html

Obviously, parents have a role to play, but an individual parent/household can't be responsible for making the roads safe for active travel. That HAS to come from (local and national) government. The Netherlands has one of the lowest rates of obesity in Europe. 100 miles away in East Anglia we've got one of the highest rates. I've been to the Netherlands, they drink beer, eat meat and chips and mayonnaise, do the same kind of jobs as us. The difference is that kids, adults, pensioners, disabled people can all get around on a bike or on foot/wheelchair safely.

It's all well and good having leisure routes and sustrans tracks out in the countryside, but it's still treating 'active travel' as something you do at the weekend when you've got a few hours to kill, then on Monday morning when the kids need to go a mile down the road to school you load them back into the car because they'll be under the wheels of an angry van driver if you let them ride there.

Tackling obesity is easy , as fat kids can't run very fast so a quick leg sweep and they're down like little chubby sack of spuds.

My wifes friend is a nutritionist, working for the NHS going round schools etc doing healthy cooking demos and giving advice etc, she really knows her stuff.

Her kids diet is **** abysmal.

In theory,you should never see a fat dietitian.

Might I suggest that another factor, among many, is that peer pressure isn't allowed. That's a very effective method of changing peoples attitudes removed. If we were allowed or even encouraged to pee ourselves laughing at fat slobs then at least some might get the message.
In almost all of the schools I teach in there will be a few fatties amongst the kids. They are usually spoilt rotten and are given a bag of crisps the second they are picked up. If teachers were allowed to point out to parents that little Jayden ( not that I am thinking of any one kid in particular) was fat enough for slaughter, a few might get the message.
Our society says that we are all equal. That includes porkers who are entitled to do as they want and bugger the expense to the nation.
Complete cobblers.

This: http://thedailymile.co.uk/

Doesn't require a large playground, any specialist equipment or much time out of the day.

Are there still vending machines in schools?

I'm disappointed with the Gov, although not surprized.

The sugar dealers have lobbied hard in the corridoors of Westminster, to win their case, threatening job losses, etc.

I heard most of the R4 intervierw this morning (circa 7:40am). At one point the presenter challenged the soft drinks representative to qualify the nutritional content/value of a well known soft drink. The representative quickly side stepped that one, while having the "front" to complain about the targetting of the soft drinks manufacturers for a "sugar tax".

Imo, there's currently more BS in Nutrition than in HiFi and the Space race, put together!
Until some form of concensus is reached on that front, the purveyors of nutritionally poor food, will hide behind the confusion and continue to market their wares.

While I agree with those members who are advocating personal and parental responsibility. Those comments are a little at odds with previous posts by the same, claming the Gov is there to improve our lives.

The junk food/drink industry has for many decades, had a free reign in their field, hiding behind the myth that dietary fat was the demon. Now that dietary sugar is finally receiving the attention it deserves, one might have hoped that Gov would see the industry isn't for changing itself and that self regulation, so far, isn't providing the results the BMA and dentists have clearly suggested.

[i]mattsccm - Member
If we were allowed or even encouraged to pee ourselves laughing at fat slobs then at least some might get the message.[/i]

Shaming people with a problem and making them a source of ridicule and amusement isn't a solution.

I'd suggest education is the root to the solution. However, when there are those in the world for whom there is a vested interest in creating confusion about what to eat and what not to eat.

The task of correctly educating those who would benefit, is almost impossible.

Solo +1 to both posts.

when I wer a youff smoking was trendy, it was seen as cool both amongst parents and my peers. it made everybody want to try it, so kids did and hey presto lots of little addicts.

Today, its seen as what it is, unhealthy, a killer and not trendy, smokers, bless em, are often seen as periahs.

We need to do the same for refined sugars. The government needs to tackle it seriously instead of half measures.

It's ingrained in our social psyche, just look at any binners thread, he's the bloody pied piper of dietary crap. 😀
It's a shame that if you eat healthily, look after yourself and don't drink alcohol your considered a freak.
The real freaks are the losers who think guzzling bucket like amounts of beer and eating 2500 calories just before you hit the sack is a sensible thing to do. Then they start a thread about which latest money making scheme/diet is the best to try for approximately how long the poor sap can muster, before they succumb to latest crack cocaine of munchy snackiness.
As for parents feeding their kids this crap, i can't even get started, reap what you sow springs to mind.

Government subsidises the food production drink and retail industry massively - most pay minimum wage for low-end jobs and therefore workers get the benefit tax credits to survive. Hurting their revenues probably means fewer shops, few jobs for the poor-educated (traditional labour or UKIP voters) and therefore will never happen. Sugar tax will hurt the pockets of business owners and low-end workers the most.

EDIT - wrong thread, oops

Does giving people free food cure their Anorexia?

Ok, so why do we think that making food more expensive will cure their Obesity?

Theres a whole variety of reasons why different people are fat - ranging from anxiety and mental health issues to education, lifestyle and free-time. Its not helping anyone slagging them off and calling them fat/lazy/stupid from an ivory tower though.

The truth is that our current approach to a hugely complex psycho-social issue isn't any more developed than when we used to tell people with depression to go and pull themselves together.

Theres a whole variety of reasons why different people are fat - ranging from anxiety and mental health issues to education, lifestyle and free-time. Its not helping anyone slagging them off and calling them fat/lazy/stupid from an ivory tower though.

Agreed and I would add to that list certain medications and certain diseases are making folk prone to obesity. Speaking from myxadema madness the last thing to mention to doctors is anything to do with weight. Lazy assumptions and sneering is not helpful, in my experience.

I agree its not helpful but its a parents responsibility to teach kids about life
Part of that is to explain why eating crap and not exercising is a bad idea

But I don't believe that a substantial number of parents are equipped to properly do this, either through lack of knowledge or personal skills to deliver the message. If they themselves never learned then how can we expect them to pass it on - todays obese children are typically not the first generation of unhealthy eating, sedentary lifestyle people in that family. Now I don't think a "tax" is a perfect tool to educate people (it doesn't stop smoking or drinking) but to suggest that its not governments responsibility to intervene (especially in a healthcare and welfare system we all pay for) is odd. If advertising works (and if doesn't business wouldn't be spending millions on it) then regulating it is not unreasonable.

We used to rely on parents to teach the birds and the bees, and its generally accepted now that early professional education is much more consistently effective, helping to start reverse problems with teenage pregnancy, std's etc. Education about cooking/eating has been marginalised for years and is an after thought on the curriculum but is an essential life skill we ALL need. Even physical education is generally focussed around "sports" and so for many people doesn't build habits that last a lifetime and stop as soon as they leave school. A culture in schools where children aren't expected to get themselves to and from anywhere themselves all adds to the problem. When the problems are at a societal level, rather than merely a few individuals it is appropriate for government to intervene. I think it is right to question if a tax is the right tool - but if that provides resource to tackle the real issues, penalises firms who could do more to proactively be responsible themselves and provides a little incentive for people to make the switch then I don't really see a downside?

If i fall from high horse i will gently float to the ground as i am so slight

you might want to talk to Galileo about that... ...perhaps your parents should have been responsible for educating you in physics as obviously the state failed you 😉

Yes fruit smoothies may be a grey area but fizzy pop and biscuits is not

But that is where far too simplistic a view point falls down. There is plenty of sugar free "fizzy pop" which is potentially better than some smoothies, and many nutritionists would see nothing wrong with sparkling mineral water, which presumably means those with a hint of flavour and not added sugar are good too? In fact, its sometimes suggested that snack eating is caused by people not realising they are thirsty not hungry so perhaps they are better still... And treating all biscuits as bad is equally niave.