[Closed] Swine flu jab - wife's 29 weeks pregnant. Would you?

sorry I thought this was two questions 😀

the folk I know that have had it say its like the usual flu jab but your arm hurts, actually hurts, for two to three days.

I'd probably err on the no don't have the jab, and I can answer the other question without at least seeing a photo 😀 😀 😀

Yeah it's been covered extensively...

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/nhs-workers-are-you-having-the-swine-flu-vaccine
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/will-you-choose-to-be-vacinated-against-swine-flu

My wife had hers the other week and she is 15 weeks pregnant, but then she is also in other risk groups (diabetic and a frontline doctor).

the folk I know that have had it say its like the usual flu jab but your arm hurts, actually hurts, for two to three days.

Yep can confirm that - tho MrsGrahamS got the normal flu jab in one arm and swine flu in the other and both were a bit tender and sore for two or three days.

If one doctor says yes and the other isn't sure, what hope do you have of getting the answer you want on here?

But if it was my decision, I would do it - the potential direct risk (especially coming into autumn) seems more apparent than any potential risk associated with the jab.

And isn't it just the same as having the regular flu jab anyway, it is just a different mix to combat the particular threat this flu strain presents?

But I am sure the next post will argue the case the other way...

But I am sure the next post will argue the case the other way...

Well I'll agree with you m_f.. just so you're wrong 🙂

That was pretty much the decision we came to. Known, definite danger (of flu) versus unknown, possible but unlikely danger (from vaccine).

Does being pregnant affect what happens to you if you get swine flu? I don't know but that seems the crucial point.

All medications in pregnancy are best avoided as all carry risk to the foetus ( might be a minuscule risk) so what you have to do is weigh up the risks of having the vaccine with the risks of not having it and catching the illness.

I don't know the answers to that but those are the questions

I've felt crappy since I had mine last week and yes a painful arm too, but id I was pregnant I'd not risk my inborn getting the virus

Does being pregnant affect what happens to you if you get swine flu? I don't know but that seems the crucial point.

There is apparently a greater risk of complications with pregnant women (which probably goes for any illness I guess when they are already in a weakened state).

Our obstetrician said she was seeing one pregnant woman a week diagnosed with swine flu. In most cases mother and baby were fine with normal treatment, only a couple were hospitalised for any time, though one was seriously ill for a few weeks with some kind of complication (possibly renal failure, can't remember).

Thanks all for the replies, and thanks for the links too. I have no idea why no search string I enter returns a result...

[i]TandemJeremy - Member
Does being pregnant affect what happens to you if you get swine flu? I don't know but that seems the crucial point.
[/i]

I couldn't possibly know the answer to this TJ, I suppose that's why I'm asking. That said, the jab given to pregnant women is Pandemrix, containing Thiomersal which is 49% mercury. I'm sure I've read about mercury and neuro devolopment in foetus...

There were no clinical trials on pregnant women with the drug, just woman of a child bearing age. We're thinking risk from the vaccine is less than risk from the virus (although our midwife doesn't know whether she's having the jab either)...

I [i]think[/i] the mercury thing is a bit of a red herring.

You are looking at balancing two low probability adverse events.

Myself I am of the opinion of not medicating without strong evidence for doing so. However that in itself is contentious.

she would appear to be of highish risk of catching it - air travel and meeting lots of the public. I don't know if she is really at high risk of complications from swine flu - but it would appear perhaps raised risk but still low.

Risk of complications from the vaccination - also low.

This is IMO one of the major issues with medical stuff. You are supposed to have [b]informed[/b]consent for medical treatment. In this situation the information does not appear to be there - hence my position of "first do no harm" However as I said above this is contentious in itself.

Thiomersal has been used in various vaccines since the 1930s.

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/questions/en/index.html

my doc friend had it aand she is 24ish weeks.

she had to argue her case though.

she had to argue her case though.

Who with? Her doc?

containing Thiomersal which is 49% mercury

Thiomersal does not contain "Mercury". It does contain "Ethyl Mercury" but this is VERY different to elemental mercury. The Ethyl bit is very very important. The levels of Ethyl Mercury in the 'flu jab is well below the toxic dose where harm may be caused.

The scare stories about Thiomersal are put about by anti vaccination groups who have blamed it for causing all sorts of things without a jot of evidence to back up there claims and large amounts of evidence proving them wrong.

To the OP do you have any concerns about the seasonal 'flu jab, because it really isn't any different, a few protiens aside.

To the OP do you have any concerns about the seasonal 'flu jab, because it really isn't any different, a few protiens aside.

In truth, neither of us would have considered a flu jab before but we are this time around because we feel it's negligent not to consider it given the circumstances and advice given by the healt care professionals.

The mercury thing was probably my biggest 'blind' fear, so nice to be put right on that. Thanks.

ITU nurse here, I've seen a couple of pregnant or recently so ladies with swine flu.
It's a no brainer, i'd recommend the jab.

listen to crikey
my wife, also a gp, recently saw the 18 yr old sister of a 22yr old who is currently "dying on itu" with complications of swine flu- no underlying health problems.
van halen- how come your doc friend had to argue her case?
it should be available to all health care workers, male, female, pregnant or not, and all pregnant women, health care workers or not?
I had mine 10 days ago. sorer arm than seasonal flu jab, other than that fine.

Mrs P is 31 weeks so very similar boat however she is no longer working so less risk. I asked at NCT class, the teacher looked totally blank and most of the class said they wouldn't get it as they were further along than us. We have only just moved back to the UK from Ireland and we are currently being processed by the NHS so it may be another 2 weeks before we see a doctor to ask, by which point is it worth it so close to the due date?

by which point is it worth it so close to the due date?

this question was asked at our NCT class too. One of the guys there works for one of the vaccine manufacturers, and he was quite clear that it is the same as a normal seasonal flu vaccine but with a different virus in it. Having said that, him and his wife had still not decided on it. They are being offered the 2 jab version, which would have to be taken over a period of time that is similar to how long she has until the due date.

There is a lot of info available on tinternet. My Mrs had a look at Mumsnet (the STW of pregnancy) and they had an interview with the govt vaccination bod. He points to a lot of good reference material.

We still aren't sure, but will probably go for it (only just got the letter through).

just been filming a piece for bbc news about this exact subject..!
The current thinking is that catching swine flu whilst pregnant is very bad, it can lead to premature births and complications during pregnancy.
There is no current evidence to suggest the swine flu vaccine is at all harmful to unborn babies.
I'd also accept that there is no evidence because swine flu is still quite new..!
Get down to your GP and talk it through. The only reported problems the PCT we were talking to was slightly tender arms after the jab.

Oh and one lady we spoke to was 10 days away from her due date.. doctor still felt it was worth it

[i]Swine flu jab - wife's 29 weeks pregnant. Would you?[/i]

I would. more pregnant the better. Not sure what the jab's got to do with it though.

As above, pregnancy is a well documented risk factor in swine flu. The severity of the disease is dependent on 'host factors'; your immune status determines how ill you get.
We don't even let student nurses who have pregnant partners work on the unit, or pregnant visitors, or visitors who are in contact with pregnant women.
It's a nasty potentially fatal illness, for mum and baby, and is particularly difficult to treat, requiring complex ventilation and lots of crossing of medical fingers.

Take medical advice, and take it seriously.

One of the guys there works for one of the vaccine manufacturers, and he was quite clear that it is the same as a normal seasonal flu vaccine but with a different virus in it

not [i]quite[/i] true, I think - manufacturing process differs (it's the process that was licensed for bird flu a few yrs ago, and not used, now with the "new" virus in it)

contains thiomersal, which lots of people seem frightened of (highly probably unnecessarily) and also squalene, which some suggest is responsible for gulf war syndrome (on very poor evidence, it seems)

I've had it, so has my wife (not pregnant though)

Interestingly(?), obesity is prob a risk factor too but they're not getting offered the vaccine

( [url= http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19309 ]bah, forgot my link[/url] )

Yes definately , young otherwise healthy pregnant women are dying from swine flu ( not many but it seems that the pregnant are more susceptible) there have been a couple of cases in the uk when mothers have died leaving newly bereft new dads- the ultimate tragedy.

and yes tandem jeremy it is being increasingly recognised that the pregant are more susceptible to swine flu

I cant be more honest than this, if my wife was pregant she would definately be having the jab.

Ive had the jab and it does sting for a few days. I feel that any healthcare professionals refusing to have the jab are shunning their duty to the greater good.

Thanks all, again.

Talking about it tonight, and reading this thread amongst others, it would appear that the risk of the jab looks far less than the risk of the virus.

And sorry MrNutt, just seen your initial post. I'll sort pictures out later... 😀

My wife is 19 weeks pregnant and is a nurse manager of an outpatients clinic. She will be taking the vaccine ASAP. As has already been said, H1N1 has been shown to have a severe effect on pregnant ladies and those with other health complications, so the advice is to get the vaccine.

The vaccine has only just become available within the last few weeks here (Vancouver, BC). My wife contracted H1N1 about 2 weeks ago before the vaccine was available and took Tamiflu anti-viral tablets soon after the onset; she had 1 bad day with fevers etc but then the Tamiflu got it under control. There is little data on taking Tamiflu while pregnant, but what little data exists does not show any concerns and the risks to mother & baby outweigh the alternative. My wife knows of at least 1 patient still recovering in ICU after losing her baby at 20wks. Very sad.

My wife is 19 weeks pregnant and is a nurse manager of an outpatients clinic. She will be taking the vaccine ASAP.... My wife contracted H1N1 about 2 weeks ago before the vaccine was available...

huh? Surely if she has already had it then there is no benefit it getting the vaccine now? 😕

doctornickriviera - Member

and yes tandem jeremy it is being increasingly recognised that the pregant are more susceptible to swine flu

that would seem to be a good indication then to have it.

Graham S - Actually, that's a good point. Her symptoms were classic swine-flu, but she wasn't tested so I guess it might be still worth being vaccinated just in case it was another variant. But I'll have to ask her about that one.

Don't know how things are there, but in the UK they don't routinely test if you've already had it before giving the vaccine.

Imagine you are the dad left behind, how on earth do you pick up the pieces of your life??

Awful just awful.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8337980.stm

My wife (a hospital doc) had hers at 18 weeks pregnant, she looked at what evidence there was, which was minimal, but she sighted that the southern hemisphere showed the best evidence that not taking it and being pregnant led to much higher risk.

Not being funny, but if your wife is that concerned she should be cutting back on her flying, and use of public transport. That has got to be the best way of reducing your probability of getting the flu.

Having done quite a bit of flying up and down the country for work in the past, its no bed of roses, and I would imagine quite stressful for mother and baby.

I'm a GP, I've had it, and have no hesitation recommending it to pregnant friends.

I feel that any healthcare professionals refusing to have the jab are shunning their duty to the greater good.

I am not actually 'refusing' to have it but having seen 1st hand some quite nasty adverse reactions, I have decided not to make the effort to go and get it 8) In addition, having been exposed at close quarters a mimimum of 30 times over the past couple of months to probable 'flu/swine flu sufferers it is probably a waste of time having it at this late stage.

really?? we've already immunised thousands and had no serious reactions- scared of the needle woody cluck cluck cluck!!?? :wink:- only kidding it's your choice in the end.

Both my wife and I have had it - both docs, made us feel a bit viral the next day and a sore deltoid for 3-4 days- that's it. Obviously there may be a few rare serious reactions. You are much more likely to come to harm mountain biking than through the swine flu jab.

The reason why I feel NHS staff should have it is because if we all go down en masse with swine flu then the system will fail at a time of high need- we have a duty to our patients to have it done as it is now a preventable illness. And if your a doc the GMC includes this in the duty of a doctor details and it only takes one smart arse lawyer to make a neglicence claim against you if you infect a patient with a preventable illness- hard to prove but stressful all the same

And if you've had proper swine flu you'll know about it.

My wife is due to give birth on Friday (20/11/09) and is having her jab tomorrow, mainly to cover herself & to give the little one some immunity.

drnick

You are undoubtedly right and I would have had the jab (as I have for the past few years) if the effort had been made by my employer to make it easier to get. A round trip of 2 hours to head office on my day off didn't appeal !

huh? Surely if she has already had it then there is no benefit it getting the vaccine now?

Right, I checked with the boss. The medical advice (at least here in BC) is still to get the vaccine even if you suspect you've had the flu, for 2 reasons:

1) Unless you've actually been tested you don't know if it really was H1N1.
2) You can't be sure you've got enough antibodies, better safe than sorry.

And in relation to DrNick's point, my wife is a nurse manager of a HIV outpatients clinic (high-risk patient group). When the vaccine was first made available here a few weeks ago, my wife organised the vaccination program in her clinic and was expressly reminded by management that staff were NOT to be vaccinated at that time as they were not in the 1st phase. Surprise surprise, a week later and 6 out of the 7 clinic nurses spent the week at home with suspected swine flu. Cue scenes of organisational chaos and senior management being drafted back to the clinic floor after years behind a desk. DOH!

A 19 year old girl and her 38 week old unborn child died in the resus room of A&E around the corner from me a few weeks ago. Swine flu, pregnant but otherwise well.

No-brainer. Known risk versus theoretical risk.

My GP wife was advising a pregnant friend on this last night.. Our friend is 14 weeks pregnant. Advice was by this stage baby is relatively well developed and therefore lower risk of damage. The more pregnant you are the safer it is.

I know three pregnant doctors who have had it, and they are the worst for worrying about these sorts of things!