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The Garryowen (to give it it's proper name) is the Irish term for the up and under. A bomb of a high ball, chase hard and compete for it.
Wales did it well this 6N, Biggar and 1/2p especially.
Kearney is ponderous and doesnt tackle well, no idea why anyone would rate him.
Full Back running order (excuse the pun)
1 - Hogg
2 - 1/2
3 - Spedding
4 - Kearney
5 - Brown
6 - McLean
Anyone listening to the 5 live rugby show? Matt Dawson is a total piece...how did he get that job?
Not sure what Hogg has done to be so highly thought of. Brown is certainly above Kearney.
1/2p and Brown are on a similar level imo. Different strengths and weaknesses.
Really??
Kearney has been a class act for years - and still is. Just because Ireland never pass it out we don't see him much in attack.
Most other 6N teams would stick 1/2p at fullback if they had him. He was good on the wing and he takes those skills to fullback along with his faultless kicking.
Hogg is a brilliant attacking player and his defence helped stem the white tide at Twickenham.
Foden is England's best fullback, by miles, but in SL's masterplan he ranks behind Brown and Goode even when fit. I'd like to have seen Watson get a run at fullback because he doesn't look so much at home on the wing.
Kearney couldnt tackle a kebab.
[url= http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/9774305/rfu-chief-ian-ritchie-says-second-place-not-acceptable-for-england ]Oh Dear...[/url]
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Agreed.
In one sense he's correct, England should dominate the home nations in competition wins and be more competitive globally. I just did a quick look at registered players from the home nations:
Wales = 79,000
Scotland = 38,000
Ireland = 153,000
England = 2.5 million.
England have 9 x the players to pick from. They should be able to coach the elite players into a winning team though.
Still arrogant.
Those statistics are slightly misleading as the huge difference is accounted for by juniors - both boys and girls. Senior male registered players are 131,000 compared to 124,000 in France, 25,000 in Ireland, 22,000 in Wales and 11,000 in Scotland. Still a significant advantage though.
Kryton57 - Member
Yes, a ridiculously arrogant statement.
Agreed.
It's not arrogant at all imo, it's realistic. If Wales had the resources, both in terms of numbers and money, that England have then I'd expect them to win almost every 6N. Especially when comparing it to the current resources of their rivals.
Wales punch well above their weight, in resource terms, England and France well below, in recent times anyway.
I seem to remember having this discussion on STW a while ago, and pointing out that England has more registered referees than most of the home nations had registered players.
Of course, there's a lot more to sport than money or player numbers although the Euro Cup is dominated by rich teams. When international rugby goes the same way that's when I give up watching it. 😥
Those stats are BS, Scotland has 11,300 and something senior players. In my rugby area which extends from Fife to Orkney,there are 14 u18 sides,so I don't know where they find another 27,000 players. I am in an 800 pupil school and can't raise anything more than a token side to send to 7's comps at u15 or u18. Rugby here is dead,has been for years.
It is a stupid thing to say but how do the players and Lancaster feel about it. Are they underachieving? maybe the players are just not world class. It is getting more like soccer, press build them up to be world beaters, they lose press crucify them. It is just as bad in Wales but on a smaller scale. If I was an english player or coach I would be pissed off that some suit had just said we werent trying hard enough.
I find it hard to believe that a lot of the players who played on Saturday will be turning out for their clubs this coming weekend. A schedule like that doesn't benefit the national squad at all. Benefits the clubs though, can the fall in French national rugby be mirrored with the dominance of the club game in France?
England have the most money, the most resources and the biggest pool of players, by far.
People can argue that sheer numbers alone don't ensure decent talent but England have won the last two U20 World Cups so something's going right.
Historically the "blazers" have buggered it all up but, even in the professional era, the RFU lost control of the game to the clubs.
Like France, the problem is sorting through the huge number of players in a highly competitive club environment and finding a coach capable of selecting the right ones and melding them together into a cohesive side with a clear idea of how to play.
Since SCW, England have failed to appoint a coach capable of doing this. I don't think France ever have - despite Grand Slams and 3 RWC finals.
It's surely no coincidence the fact that neither Union has ever employed an overseas coach and neither team has come close to its potential of late.
The fall in French rugby is all about the number of imports and the fact the majority of clubs are vanity projects for very wealthy men. See France's inability to grow a number 10 and the names Wilkinson,Sexton,Carter and dunno how many else as an example. There was a recent article in the London Times showing how this permeates even down to the academy level.
True Duckman but even before that, the French have never made use of their huge pool of talent.
Interesting what you were saying about the dearth of rugby in the North of Scotland. I drive past the Mackie FP training in Stonehaven on a regular basis and there are always tons of kids of all age groups out there.
Like France, the problem is sorting through the huge number of players in a highly competitive club environment and finding a coach capable of selecting the right ones and melding them together into a cohesive side with a clear idea of how to play.
Can't disagree that the coaching element has to be one of the biggest factors in the resources-success ratio of late. Not necessarily just those at the top (although Lancaster makes some odd decisions at times) but all the way down to the culture of play at younger ages. We always harp on about NZ and how they coach their youngsters but the truth is they have some really sensible ideas that we could do with learning from!
I don't think Lancaster is qualified for the job.
The RFU should have pushed the boat out and made Graham Henry an offer he couldn't refuse. He could have hidden his reticence about coaching against the ABs behind large bundles of cash.
Mackie are just up the road from me,they have huge numbers at primary level,but struggle to put out u15 and 18 sides,endemic of the majority of clubs up here. Their pitches are nice but the whole operation is based on a couple of portacabins,which are bogging. None of the schools have teams,Mackie, Portlethen or Mearns, so by the time the pupils are 12 they are doing other things at the weekend.
The senior side is also always at the wrong end of the local league and relegation this year will go really badly for them.Aberdeen is on of the few areas where there is actually a thriving club scene with Grammer in div 2 and the Shire in 3. However they do this at the expense of clubs like Mackie and Ellon. In the old days big clubs had lots of players to fill their 2xv so tended only to poach the exceptional players from smaller clubs. Now they can't put out a 2xv without stealing players from smaller clubs,with the effect that the smaller clubs struggle to put out a side and overall standards decline lower down.
I think Graham Henry is a God but plenty in Wales will disagree. With out his input I think Welsh rugby would be in a worse place that Scotland way way worse place.
I am very glad he hasn't gone to england 😆 was he ever offered a job by the rfu?
- This is very true, bizarrely just like England Ireland have tons of full backs playing elsewhere or not in the team. Zebo, Keith Earls, Henshaw and Payne have all played lots of rugby at 15. I would prefer to see Payne there than centre where apart from the Scotland game he was very average.Kearney is ponderous and doesnt tackle well, no idea why anyone would rate him.
Hogg
1/2p
Joseph
Henshaw
North
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Cronin
Cole
Laws
OConnell
Sean O Brian
Vunipola
Warburton
Pigface - MemberI think Graham Henry is a God but plenty in Wales will disagree.
I can sell you a signed copy of his autobiography. Only read once! 😀
I sort of agree with you - he did some of the groundwork. Scotland at the moment remind me of Wales pre-Henry. Some good players, some good coaching, always promising to be better than they really are. They need a good Henrying.
Thanks Duckman.
Very illuminating and also very depressing.
Did Henry do that much? He bpught some success by bringing the likes of Howarth, Sinkinson etc and did a good coaching job but I think it was Hansen who laid the foundations for success from 2004/05 onwards.
El Vino
Lawes in place of AWG? Big call!
It was Henry who got the whole region thing started, he told the WRU it had to change. It went a bit wrong at the end granted.
Whats happened to Eli Walker?
On the subject of locks... what locks do England have of the ugly, grunty variety? I guess that Attwood and Kruis are along those lines but a bit green compared to AWJ/ POC/ the established SH guys???
anagallis_arvensis - Member
Did Henry do that much? He bpught some success by bringing the likes of Howarth, Sinkinson etc and did a good coaching job but I think it was Hansen who laid the foundations for success from 2004/05 onwards.
I'd argue that Hansen did more damage than good. The team that almost beat the ABs and England in 2003 WC played completely differently from the way they'd been coached iirc.
Maybe, maybe not. He did insist on fitness and professionalism though.
In other news Adam is off to Quims. Decent cover during the sorld cup I suppose. Not much use otherwise.
Mallinder should have the englnd job with Baxter and greenwood on the coaching team.
Graham Henry can go ****, I'd sooner have Lancaster.
Graham Henry can go ****, I'd sooner have Lancaster
You'd rather have mid table mediocrity than win the big prizes?
The point is, like it or not, the Kiwis have played the best rugby for most of the last 20 years so it would make sense to employ a Kiwi coach. We have lost the last 4 6N to sides with smaller player pools and poorer resources who've had better coaching setups - run by NZ coaches.
Daily Flail reporting Talupe Faletau to Bath after world cup.
You'd rather have mid table mediocrity than win the big prizes?
You honestly think Henry could do any better????? Did he lead Wales to RWC victories? Did he win a Lions tour? What makes you think he could do any better with England?
We have lost the last 4 6N to sides with smaller player pools and poorer resources who've had better coaching setups - run by NZ coaches.
How's that working out for Mr Cotter?
I'm far from convinced by the current coaching set up, particularly Mr Farrell but parachuting in Henry in the hope that he turns England into the ABs is naive. We have plenty of coaching talent here in England and we should use it.
No he led NZ to a World Cup at home where the pressure was huge.You honestly think Henry could do any better????? Did he lead Wales to RWC victories?
Woodward won a world cup and look what he did to the Lions, nearly destroyed it with his unfettered idiocy.
"Four years as runners-up is not acceptable and we are not happy with how that came about," Ritchie said."If you go back through history, bearing in mind a lot of things, we should be, as a country, winning more in terms of Grand Slams, Six Nations championships, other things."
IMO, England could do with getting rid of a crap chief executive rather than focusing on the coach or players.
He seems to think he's got a right to criticize those below him as if he's not part of the problem.
Got a lot more respect for a man like Lancaster who stands with his team.
Sword and fall time for that other idiot, if it's truly "not acceptable".
No he led NZ to a World Cup at home where the pressure was huge.
England are not the all blacks!!!
Until the approach to coaching grass roots and the culture around youth rugby is changed, we never will be.
If we want to take something from NZ, it should be to copy how they do it. Not just put their old coach in charge of the national team, on the basis that he has managed to win a home world cup with the best players on the planet.
You should never have let Wayne Smith leave England. Especially as he now coaches part of the team you will ultimately have to beat to win the WC.
we want to take something from NZ, it should be to copy how they do it. Not just put their old coach in charge of the national team, on the basis that he has managed to win a home world cup with the best players on the planet.
You should check who was outside half in the final.
He seems to think he's got a right to criticize those below him
Well he is the Chief Executive isn't he?
If he won't criticise SL then who will? All we get from SL is media speak about how England are "going in the right direction".
From where I'm looking we've gone from 2nd to 2nd to 2nd to 2nd.
I wasn't advocating parachuting Henry in now save things. When the RFU were looking for a coach if they'd gone after Henry he'd have brought other people too - like Wayne Smith. In fact, Nick Mallet would have brought Smith with him as well.
So a CEO speaks CEO-Speak - so what?
Resources, resources.....so what?
Other teams have better players - NZ, SA and Ireland
Others have better coaches - insert quite a few
You can only do the best with what you have and England are neither world beaters nor even NH beaters. They are one of a groups of good NH nations - England, Ireland, Wales, France, Italy, Georgia - as recent history shows.
But I guess like wendy we will have to go through the game of thinking that being foreign = being better when it comes to coaches.
THM in trolling shocker;IRB rankings; Georgia 14,Italy 15 and Scotland 10. As you say; "the truth is out there" Still bitter that you couldn't finish against the "sweaties?" as you are fond of calling us.
But I guess like wendy we will have to go through the game of thinking that being foreign = being better when it comes to coaches.
That seems to apply right through the game, though. NZ, Aus and SA MUST be good simply because they are so far away. All Black players are always fantastic world beaters despite the fact they throw up dross like Colin Slade or Steve Donald on a regular basis. Every foreign coach must be better than the home grown ones because they were involved in exotic teams like the Crusaders or the Waratahs, not Bedford or Dunvant. Every time a half-decent player leaves Wales to play abroad he suddenly becomes fantastically good, possibly because nobody ever sees coverage of his mistakes again.
(There maybe some tongue-in-cheek in this post!)
Steven Donald gave up after the world cup,in fact he was fishing and drinking during the W/C when he got the call up. I would rate both him and Slade as easily good enough for any of the home nations. He was certainly better than Flood of Goode. Slade has had to be compared with probably the greatest 10 since those Welsh guys that played in black and white.