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My lass just called me in a bit of a state. Was asleep, undressed, in bed in her halls room, with earplugs in, the door locked and chain attached. Two male hall staff basically broke in - unlocked it and unscrewed the chain from outside - and barged in to 'inspect' the room.
Apparently her flat had received notice that this would be happening 'sometime in the next couple of weeks'.
While I appreciate that it can be hard to find moments when their residents aren't asleep or drunk, does STW think this seems a reasonable approach to a clearly occupied, locked room containing a female (or male) student?
Totally unacceptable.
I'd be threatening with legal action....
At the very least they should have shouted and called, a lot, before entering. Also depends on how they behaved when they got in the room - clearly chain on = someone in there and they should have acted accordingly.
I am surprised they don't have a female member of staff with them - they must know who is in each room...?
She needs to complain asap.
What footflaps said, absolutely.
unless there was a concern about student welfare (which there might be if the door is chained and no response to knocking/shouting), completely unacceptable.
She needs to complain asap.
She's a bit too shook up to do it, so I've been delegated to rip them a new one on her behalf.
I've looked up her tenancy agreement, and they have the right to enter if 'reasonable notice' has been given. This doesn't seem reasonable.
That's completely unacceptable behaviour.
I'd be fuming
Out of order - go get 'em!
Absolutely escalate that to whoever is in charge of student welfare. What are they even inspecting rooms for?
Came into thread with expectation of handwringing overwrought parent, almost immediately agreed with Footflaps.
Definitely complain. Reasonable notice would be along the lines of "next wednesday between 10-2 we will be round" not "couple of weeks".
No, not acceptable but how do you unscrew the chain from outside, doesn't that defeat the object?
My daughter is in first year halls and also had the unannounced inspection, but had a few mins notice
I’d be threatening with legal action….
Bit over reacting IMHO.
I'd be doing two things 1/ Nothing, personally - part of going to Uni is you need to start to take responsibility, also for the shit that your Dad might normally do for you; 2/ suggesting she contacts the residential team and she can then express her dissatisfaction to them. And then escalating it with them if the answer isn't satisfactory.
Totally out of order. Formal complaint time, zero excuse, they do not have the right to force entry.
I’ve looked up her tenancy agreement, and they have the right to enter if ‘reasonable notice’ has been given. This doesn’t seem reasonable.
Yes that is normal with tenancies. But surely the right to enter assumes they are invited in by the tenant, not just let themselves in (taking apart a security chain in the process).
but how do you unscrew the chain from outside, doesn’t that defeat the object?
Thought did occur to me, but I guess that there might be circumstances in which I'd be grateful for that, although I guess they could smash the door down at that point. I will be getting her a rubber wedge doorstop to prevent any repeat, though.
I get that it's better if she deals with it herself, but I'm guessing they will find it easier to fob her off. She is an adult, but adulthood isn't a simple on/off switch, particularly after a couple of years where teenagers haven't been able to do as much of the stuff which makes them more independent.
I get that but it's also now time to learn it. IMHO obviously.
My daughter was spitting feathers last friday (week friday now) because there was a fire alarm fault that meant they had 4 fire alarm in the early hours of Saturday morning. She'd even had an early night because of an early start with her society the next morning (auditions), so my original answer that it served her right for being in on a Friday night fell on deaf ears. But after that, I said i could call the residential team, the numbers are on the website but I wasn't going to.... she's a grown up now and time to learn how to complain. In fairness - she has also done 2 years as a CSA at Waitrose including the CS desk there so she's seen the other side too.
But point still stands. Will you still be doing it for her next year? The year after? As a 25 year old....
That is outrageous and must have been terrifying for her. Thank goodness that she told you and, yes, you must take this further by finding out the exact wording that's used in this Rule and whether it extends to specifying whether male staff have the authority to "search" a female's room. Actually, this gives me the shivers and without sounding hysterical I'd like to know what sort of vetting process these staff go through.
Do hope that you get a satisfactory response and if you don't then go higher.
unfortunatly student halls are exempt from most law around tenancies so don't throw around tenancies laws as they probably do not apply
Its still totally unnacceptable tho
she has also done 2 years as a CSA at Waitrose including the CS desk there so she’s seen the other side too.
That is roughly equivalent to two tours of Afghanistan, so you're obviously not needed. 🙂
I won't be helicoptering forever, obviously. But I'm happy to be the designated hitter in this instance.
I'd absolutely loose my shit if that was my daughter.
OK. I still think those threatening legal action as an opening gambit are over the top.
Whether you go into bat or leave it to her, step 1 is FFFF. Something about removing chains from the outside to get it just doesn't sound right?
I think that could be considered a criminal act. Not just a civil matter.
I would be calling 101 and having a chat.
IHN
Came into thread with expectation of handwringing overwrought parent, almost immediately agreed with Footflaps.
Me too...
I am surprised they don’t have a female member of staff with them – they must know who is in each room…?
No they don't .. I'm not sure it's what MartinHutch/Dad wants to hear but she could have had company and its non of their business. (I'm just saying she could here..)
MartinHutch
I get that it’s better if she deals with it herself, but I’m guessing they will find it easier to fob her off. She is an adult, but adulthood isn’t a simple on/off switch, particularly after a couple of years where teenagers haven’t been able to do as much of the stuff which makes them more independent.
I'm still trying to work out what they thought they were "inspecting" but that aside you'll be her Dad this year, next year and till you die. You'll be there when she asks and have her back because that's what families do.
My lass just called me in a bit of a state. Was asleep, undressed, in bed in her halls room, with earplugs in
Posted at 1pm. Ah to be a student making full use of those £9k fees. 😀
Just to play devil's advocate for a sec... The students knew there would be an inspection at some point this week or next. The 'inspectors' knock the door, no answer, unlock and open it but find that it's chained from the inside. At what point should they be concerned about there being no response from somebody who is obviously in the room? If the person had overdosed, collapsed, had an epileptic fit, and they had just left without gaining access to the room, then this conversation would be rather different.
Sounds totally wrong to me, but playing devil's advocate, they knocked got no response, tried keys, found to be chained, still no response and then busted in. At all possible?
There is a lot of pressure on uni's to be more proactive with students welfare these days.
Edit:- beaten by idlejohn whilst I decided whether or not to share a nasty experience from my uni days - everyone assumed she'd gone home early for Xmas ☹️
Devils advocate - if they suspect an emergency I'm sure they can enter without notice, much like a normal landlord?
Will they not just say 'we shouted an knocked' but there was no answer... could have been a medical emergency?
The conduct after gaining entry would be key here?
That said, what time of day was it? was the door locked or just on chain?
They would have presumably knocked, got no answer, should they preusme she was out? I would say yes if the door was locked.. they would have had to use a key before realising there was a chain too? That's the dubious bit as they entered without notice when she could have just been out shopping, down the pub or whatever? MAybe a neighbouring room said, yeh she's deffinatley in...which might well then give them welfare concerns.
Blimey even a landlord in private housing has no right to do this. Got to be straight down the students union and get legal advice.
There's having your back, and also for want of a better word, mollycoddling. Part of bringing kids up is teaching them and giving them independance.
THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT TIME FOR OP and i get it's a sensitive topic, but the point stands, you have to teach them to fight their corner, and for me and my wife going off to uni was that point.
Not saying I wouldn't get involved if the response was a fobbing off, but not at the 4F stage.
unfortunatly student halls are exempt from most law around tenancies so don’t throw around tenancies laws as they probably do not apply
This is true.
They are a hotel contract, not a long term tenancy and under different law.
They did the same to the another lass in the same flat, so I don't think the 'student welfare' excuse is going to wash. It's just a matter of convenience for them, she could have been in the shower, or anything else which might cause someone to ignore someone at the door. Or just have headphones on.
I get the need for inspections, students can and do trash their living quarters, but 'reasonable notice' means 1-2hr time slots, not 'some time over the next fortnight'.
EDIT: It happened mid-morning. Not quite the 'neighbours O'clock' of my uni days, but still fairly likely that you'd find a few sleepers.
Personally, I think this is unacceptable. The huge lengths gone to to gain access (even if with notice.) is unreasonable and intolerable.
she could have been in the shower,
She's got an ensuite?!? Another thing I told my daughter she could have if she wanted but i wasn't upping her loan top up for it.
I'm beginning to think I'm a bad parent ;-(
I'll let your daughter tell you that when she is ready to fight that particular battle. ;(
They did the same to the another lass in the same flat
That changes things a bit, it does sound like thay are taking liberties in that case.
Working at a University and having a fair bit of contact with our Campus Services team, if they have acted as described then they will probably be in some fairly deep ****.
The change in access to student accommodation protocol since i attended University until now is huge and tenants are given a number of reminders of maintenance visits in the run up to the date, and even then if they get to a room they cant access they have to go and get a member of the residences team to gain access through better means than breaking in.
Also if its a University who values their NSS score then they should take any complaint she makes seriously.
Cheers Burchy. Is 'Access to Student Accommodation Protocol' something that applies to private providers? All the halls seem to be privately run at this particular uni.
What are they even inspecting rooms for?
I suppose they have to make sure that she hasn't created a portal to Hell in there. But I shall await my promised call back from the manager...
Two blokes forced entry into a young woman's flat while she was undressed and asleep. Apparently, they did this with multiple flats.
... do I really need to keep typing?
In the interests of balance, something doesn't quite sound right here. If its as you've described then clearly there's something very wrong, but:
1. Unbolting the chain from the outside? That seems unlikely to be a quick, simple, quiet thing to do unless there is some basic flaw in the design. My suspicion would be the chain wasn't on, but she doesn't want to tell daddy that she didn't follow his rules on being safe in halls!
2. Having found the room locked and chained, you would reasonably expect the staff to make a lot of noise to attract the attention of the occupant. If they did that and didn't get a response it probably wasn't unreasonable to force entry anyway.
3. I find it unlikely that she has the confidence to call you outraged about the events but not the confidence to go find someone in the university welfare team who can actually reassure her about what should have happened etc. You should be the point of escalation if the university brush her off.
When they realised she was a female in a state of undress did they quickly leave to allow her to get dressed? Did they seem concerned about the situation? Did they find anything in the room that caused them concern? Drugs, an "extra occupant" 😉 etc? As far as I recall the "inspections" at the Uni were basically a quick glance around to look for things like toasters and heaters in rooms that were no permitted for fire safety reasons and to make sure nobody was cultivating weed.
I would just say, think carefully about how you respond to this. Its quite possible to instil the fear of god into teenage girls such that they start to believe that every day is a fight for their safety. MANY years ago when I was at Uni one of the wardens managed to lose a master key and someone went round letting themselves into some rooms. A few of the girls got themselves into quite a state in the belief that this was obviously someone looking to rape girls. In fact a few wallets/purses were the only thing that went missing! I often remember back how upset my fellow hallmates were and wonder why they were more concerned about being quietly overpowered by a mystery attacker than any of the blokes and conclude its because society reinforces girls to be concerned that there are loads of evil men around.
Yes that is normal with tenancies.
She probably isn't a tenant.
EDIT: Ah, said already sorry.
Story sounds horrible... feel for her.
Whether their response was reasonable will depend on what they feared they might find behind the door.
Anyway, spoke to the manager, who tried to give me some bullshit about it being a welfare concern, even though they made no attempt to see if she was alive or dead after they gained entry...
My suspicion would be the chain wasn’t on, but she doesn’t want to tell daddy that she didn’t follow his rules on being safe in halls!
They admitted removing the chain, the welfare issue was the 'excuse', but obviously that doesn't wash because they just then inspected the room and left without checking her.
I'm personally quite happy that she trusts me enough to pick up the phone to me when something scares the shit out of her. I certainly haven't embarrassed her by losing my rag over it.
I’m personally quite happy that she picks up the phone to me when something scares the shit out of her.
I am with you here
they made no attempt to see if she was alive or dead after they gained entry…
Did she still not stir from her pit after they 'broke in' then? How does she even know they were there if not?
Or did some girl yelling 'why are you in my room!' possibly answer the alive or dead scenario for them?
As to me being a bad parent and letting my kids decide when they have reached an age to be able to broach that - passed several years ago, based on my regular parenting performance reviews......
I’m personally quite happy that she picks up the phone to me when something scares the shit out of her.
Don't misunderstand - so am I. But once we've ascertained facts, as far as possible I want her to come to a solution, and then execute on it.
It doesn't sit well all the time; I am her Dad and she's my little girl, I also have a ridiculously high genetic need to problem solve. But, I'm trying to control that and use my underdeveloped empathy gene instead and give her the opportunity to develop the life skills she will need.
Scenarios?
She doesn't get on well with her course tutor and she feels they mark her work badly? Would you step in?
Later on at work she gets a bad review and feels her boss is unfair? Would you ask for a meeting?
Of course not - but if this is the first time she's had to bat for herself, it'll be that much harder.
made no attempt to see if she was alive or dead after they gained entry…
Now I'm confused... so she slept through the whole thing? and was informed someone had been in there by someone else?
How big is her private room/flat? is it not obvious if a startled teenager is alive?
She was terrified, froze, and kept quiet under the covers. Perhaps wouldn't be everyone's reaction, but we're all different.