[Closed] Starting to dabble in Smart Home stuff - but what should I be doing?

I posted about this a few weeks ago, my post is Alexa based but still relevant to Google

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/amazon-echo-what-do-i-need-to-know/

I've got Good Morning and Good Night routines set up doing some relatively clever sequences but we still mainly use it for turning lamps on and off and listening to music, either standalone or via Sonos.

I did a thread a while back as well. Right now It's party tricks, turning light bulbs on and off is hardly ground breaking stuff TBH

lights-music-action

If you're happy to tinker and up for a fairly deep-dive then an open source prog called Home Assistant which you run on a home server is the way to go IMO. It ties everything in to everything else and crucially isn't wholly dependant on 3rd party systems and having 24/7 internet access (like it would with Google/Alexa)

I moved a couple of months ago & had grand plans to make everything smart, tbh have had loads else to do especially in the garden so it's taken a bit of a back seat at the mo! I have my HA server up and running now but it doesn't do much apart from lighting & basic presence detection right now. I'm looking at it as a long-term project though, will probably try to figure out some kind of irrigation system for the garden next!

I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking to do with the smart home stuff, but it would be good to get a better idea of what can be done and how best to achieve it.

joining a home-automation forum or FB group would give you some ideas! There are some really imaginative uses - ANYTHING is theoretically possible. When the poster above talks about "party tricks" e.g. turning lights on/off with your voice - yeah that's cool, but it's neither smart not automation! An example of smart behaviour would be the system turning the lights on/off as you need them, but without you physically having to actually do anything.

zilog

What things do expect to be able to do with it in the future. We've got lots of firesticks and Alexas but all operating as independent units, even trying to get two of them to play the same radio station in sync has been impossible. The cost of smart sockets and bulbs is way to high for me to justify vs turning the light off.

I quite like automation and am quite techy, all my exterior lights are on different PIRs etc. just not sure what home automation could become (bit like when PCs landed and we had four options on our DOS desktop, Wordperfect, Lotus 123 and 2 things I can't remember), I need someone to simply outline the possibilities before buying in.

I've a GSA server that would make an excellent Home Assistant server so that could be the way after I've played around with this a bit more.

Routines is what I need to get my head round now (that is what they are called in Google Home) as the devices have their own app so easy enough to look at, but having voice activation on stuff would be good.

Thanks for the links, will get a read this evening.

I would suggest as others have that its good for some basic stuff. i wouldnt use it for anything security based or important though. Lights, music etc its great.

Ive got a load of google home stuff. the hub max is the one i would buy again.

if this then that is a good tool.

What things do expect to be able to do with it in the future.

You can do basic presence-detection by checking whether your families smart phones are connected to the network so for example you can turn ALL the lights off if everyone leaves home. More granular presence-detection via internal sensors so it tracks you around the house turning lights on/off as you enter & leave rooms is obviously much more complicated but is a long-term goal as I think it would be very cool if nothing else!!

Irrigation system for the garden fed from water butts but topping up from mains supply if required & automatically adjusting duration depending on the daily temperature & rainfall will probably be my first real automation project.

Automatically unlocking side gate, garage door (& front door if I feel bold) when you approach would be cool & useful. Got loads of ideas most of which will probably never happen but hopefully have a bit of time over winter when the weather's crap! One guy on the FB group trained his catflap to not let his cat in if it had prey in its mouth! Literally sky's the limit 😃

The cost of smart sockets and bulbs is way to high for me to justify vs turning the light off.

there are low-cost options e.g. the IKEA Tradfri bulbs/sockets are compatible with Philips Hue hubs etc. There's also a Bulgarian company called Shelly (they have a UK distributor) who make wi-fi relays that you can use to retrofit non-smart lights, appliances & even switches. They're all EU tested etc which makes me more confident than buying some unknown Chinese thing off of eBay, plus they are set up to work out-of-the-box via MQTT on your home server, rather than going via a Chinese internet server! £11 for the basic relay. I bought a few bits last week but haven't gotten around to trying them yet.

I moved a couple of months ago & had grand plans to make everything smart

I've got smart lights in the living room. Three in the ceiling rose and two in the fire surround.

I'm now moving house and the living room at the new place has (at least) 18 bulbs in the ceiling. I'm gonna need a second mortgage.

I’m now moving house and the living room at the new place has (at least) 18 bulbs in the ceiling. I’m gonna need a second mortgage.

have a look at the Shelly stuff I mentioned. You can put one device in e.g. a ceiling rose and it will control ALL the bulbs in said rose. They also do a device that can go in the switch and control power to all the bulbs in the circuit EVEN if you haven't got a neutral wire in the switch! I've bought one but not tried it out yet as I've got a similar arrangement in my new place (shitloads of small bulbs per room!) (If you're in a newer house which DOES have neutral to the switch things are even easier/cheaper)

I’m now moving house and the living room at the new place has (at least) 18 bulbs in the ceiling. I’m gonna need a second mortgage.

Or get a smart switch rather than smart bulbs

Or get a smart switch rather than smart bulbs

yep, easier said than done though as unless you have a neutral wire in there all the off-the-shelf options look a bit shit! (aesthetically as well as technically!)

Home Assistant

What I'm struggling with at the moment is the whole mish-mash of different technologies. I have a Hue Hub which seemingly I need for the old bulbs but not the new ones, the Ikea stuff mentions a Gateway but whether that means I need another hub or the Philips one will do I've no idea.

I already have the Alexa app and Hue app and can never quite work out which I should be using, no doubt the Ikea stuff has its own app too, ITTT has been lauded, now you're on about installing a server...

Can this server get rid of all the other shit, or is it an XKCD "Standards" situation?

They also do a device that can go in the switch and control power to all the bulbs in the circuit EVEN if you haven’t got a neutral wire in the switch!

Does that need something installing in the light fitting? The ones I looked at on the back of the last thread all seemed to.

the Ikea stuff mentions a Gateway but whether that means I need another hub or the Philips one will do I’ve no idea.

AFAIK (altho not tried it) you don't need another hub for the IKEA stuff. Apparently everything using the Zigbee protocol is compatible. I bought some Innr smart bulbs from Amazon for my patio lighting, they work fine with the Hue hub & Home Assistant (£20 for an RGB bulb vs about £50 for a proper Hue one!)

Can this server get rid of all the other shit, or is it an XKCD “Standards” situation?

yes... you still need all the various hardware hubs etc, and can still use the individual apps if you want, but the HA server will tie everything together so that you can control everything from one interface. (underneath though it will still be a mish-mash of standards etc but that shouldn't be too apparent once everything is configured)

Does that need something installing in the light fitting?

yes, the wiring is simple & well documented but it does require a basic level of competence!!

it does require a basic level of competence!!

Oh dear.

I just found this on one of the other threads where you already answered this question (-:

singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/smart-homes-lights-music-action/#post-11344107

turning lights on/off as you enter & leave rooms is obviously much more complicated but is a long-term goal as I think it would be very cool if nothing else!!

I read an article the other day where the author compared all the smart technology  enthusiasts with the folk who watched Star Trek, and took away as their lesson not that they lived in a Socialist utopia, but that the doors opened as folk approached them.

AFAIK (altho not tried it) you don’t need another hub for the IKEA stuff. Apparently everything using the Zigbee protocol is compatible.

I thought it depends what you're trying to control the devices from? The previous gen Amazon Echo didn't have Zigbee support built in, hence you needed to buy the Hue Bridge (the Hue hub does the Zigbee stuff with the devices and the Echo talks to the Hue hub). The current Echo (standard one not Dot, Show or Flex) has Zigbee support built in so the Hue Hub isn't required if you have one of those.

I could be wrong though (I have a Hue Hub and a Dot, Show & Flex)

You can do basic presence-detection by checking whether your families smart phones are connected to the network so for example you can turn ALL the lights off if everyone leaves home.

I'm going to have to research something of this nature for my Evohome central heating control. I have been using IFTTT to turn on/off the central heating by geofencing when commuting too/from work, but since I got a car with an app instead of car keys, IFTTT has stopped triggering the central heating when the car app is open. I could constantly open and close the car's app, but that'd be a PITA. So, something that can trigger on /off when my phone is connected to the house wifi would be ideal.

We have lamps which turn on at sunset, ie a different time each day. I thought that was pretty smart.

Planning on getting a curtain track to automagically close at sunset too for the living room.

Oh, I meant to mention on the previous thread and forgot:

If you sign up to Spotify Premium you get a free Google Home Mini. Works on the trial too I'm told.

Automatically unlocking side gate, garage door (& front door if I feel bold) when you approach would be cool & useful.

Things may have changed since I last looked in to this, but you might find that your home insurance explicitly invalidates your cover if you install smart locks on an external house door.

I was at my cousins a few years ago, he had some smart lights he got on a Kickstarter thing. He is massively into tech, and came up with a couple of neat ‘if this then that’ sequences.
My favourite was the colours of the balcony lights going blue when the ISS was about to go over.

IMO it’s all a bit gimmicky.

The most useful thing I ha e found is that we live in a very dark area and now have lights that switch on automatically when we drive home.

The only other 2 smart things that I find useful are alone WiFi controlled Naim speaker which has its own app.

Secondly‘smart’ heating EvoHome heating system, but again controlled from an app.

If you do want to go have a look at the google mesh WiFi system. Each hub is a google assistant. I very nearly got it recently. However what put me off is that the unit that plugs in to your router isn’t actually a google assistant 🤷‍♂️

However what put me off is that the unit that plugs in to your router isn’t actually a google assistant

On the other hand, my router's in my main bedroom so I'm not too bothered Google isn't listening in all the time...