You're living in the past.
Ahhh right.
So if we close our eyes and forget about all the billions of existing non Micro-USB chargers out there and the ecological cost of disposing of them THEN Apple are the eco bad guys? I see.
Sounds like the same kind of "eco" approach where someone scraps an existing car to buy a brand new Prius, closing their eyes to the environmental costs of the scrappage and the manufacturing of the new car.
So, iphone, htc, nokia and blackberry chargers are all interchangeable. What exactly is the point the haterz are trying to make?
Yes, but the alternative is to buy a device that has no kit specifically designed for it and just gets by through a series of kludges.
That's just disingenuous. Micro USB is hardly a kludge, and headphones have interoperated with different makes of kit for decades.
Yep, that's great. So how does it display artist/track information on your stereo? How do you control track selection with your dock's remote? How do you get video and data out a 3.5mm plug? How do you plug in third-party accessories?
Yes it is. Using the phone's display. The dock is right next to me (I have it in the kitchen), I don't need a remote. Why do I need video and data in order to listen to music? The only third party device I need is ears, and helpfully mine are wireless.
If I did want those functions (for a situation other than the one we're actually discussing), the phone - heck, all phones - has platform-agnostic WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity, so providing app support for such features would be trivial.
Because they look on enviously at the range of stuff available for Apple phones
Do you [i]really [/i]think we're envious or are you just looking to see who bites? Get over yourself. If I really was envious I'd just go and buy one.
Meanwhile existing owners of phones from the other manufacturers will have to bin all their old chargers as the market moves to Micro-USB.
And iPhone owners didn't have to bin all their old chargers as they migrated from old to new? Ah... I see, they're in a box in the loft 😉
Oh and microUSB has been standard on many/most other smartphones for years. It's here now, it's not "coming in".
Do you really think we're envious or are you just looking to see who bites? Get over yourself. If I really was envious I'd just go and buy one.
Well its not the iphone users who need to keep starting threads slagging off the other manufacturer's, I wouldn't even look at a thread with htc in the title.
Ahhh right.So if we close our eyes and forget about all the billions of existing non Micro-USB chargers out there and the ecological cost of disposing of them THEN Apple are the eco bad guys? I see.
Sounds like the same kind of "eco" approach where someone scraps an existing car to buy a brand new Prius, closing their eyes to the environmental costs of the scrappage and the manufacturing of the new car.
Now THAT was just a rant 🙂
I think he's cracked, everyone!
So if we close our eyes and forget about all the billions of existing non Micro-USB chargers out there and the ecological cost of disposing of them THEN Apple are the eco bad guys? I see.
If I remember correctly, up until the rise of USB chargers most manufacturers have kept with the same charger, pretty much. Nokia was cited as an example earlier; apart from a brief dalliance with the Apple-esque 'pop port', they've had the same charger for donkeys' years. They brought in a new one relatively recently when ever-smaller form factors caused issues with the old 'fat' plug, and that's electrically identical and thus convertible with a small inline adapter.
Thinking back, I can't immediately think of a manufacturer that has continually changed adapters between devices (I'm sure there are, just I can't think of any).
Not that I'm saying Apple are inherently better or worse here. Point is that, at the time, everyone had their own proprietary charging system, Apple included. The only difference between Apple and everyone else is their subsequent market penetration. The Apple charging cable now is ubiquitous for the same reason the Nokia one used to be.
The dock is right next to me (I have it in the kitchen), I don't need a remote.
Amazingly some other people plug phones into docks that are slightly further away and would like to use a remote?
Wandering up to your stereo to change track is a bit '80s isn't it?
[img] 
[/img]
Why do I need video and data in order to listen to music?
You're the one selling it to me as a replacement for the Apple 30-pin connector. That handles several data formats, analogue audio and two video formats. As well as allowing third-party accessories. And power.
all phones - has platform-agnostic WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity
Uh-huh. And I'm sure that will come. But right now there isn't a well accepted/supported platform-agnostic wireless standard that lets me say, change track on my phone from my cars stereo controls.
Do you really think we're envious or are you just looking to see who bites?
Just fighting trolls with trolls 😀
And iPhone owners didn't have to bin all their old chargers as they migrated from old to new?
Err.. that's right they didn't. As I said, I'm still using the charger we got with the original iPod Touch.
Well its not the iphone users who need to keep starting threads slagging off the other manufacturer's, I wouldn't even look at a thread with htc in the title.
It's usually the iPhone users who get sensitive about the slightest whiff of criticism towards their iPrecious, though. The OP wasn't slagging off anyone, it was a news story presented without comment (and, I thought, an interesting one). I like to keep abreast of technology irrespective of what I currently own, that's how one makes informed purchases in the future.
Do you really think we're envious or are you just looking to see who bites? Get over yourself. If I really was envious I'd just go and buy one.
It stinks of coveting in here.
It stinks of coverting in here.
I don't know what that is, but make sure you wipe up afterwards!
Amazingly some other people plug phones into docks that are slightly further away and would like to use a remote?
Why does this proclude the use of a universal standard?
Amazingly some other people plug phones into docks that are slightly further away and would like to use a remote?
I wasn't talking about other people with other phones and other equipment, I was using my own usage as an example of useful future-proofing. But if that were the case for me, then I think I'd rather just keep the phone to hand and send the audio to its destination using A2DP or DLNA or something rather than mess about with Yet Another Remote.
You're the one selling it to me as a replacement for the Apple 30-pin connector.
Well, no, I'm not selling anything. You massively overestimate the number of craps I give about what anyone else buys or owns. I'm just trying to suggest a possible advantage of having established standards over proprietary solutions.
Check out Apples massive profiteering on Dock > micro USB adaptors
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=apple+dock+to+micro+usb&_sacat=See-All-Categories ]t'Ebay[/url]
If anyone thinks it'll take China more than a week to turn out iPhone 5 versions I think they may be mistaken.
The backward compatibility with docks is a bit of a pain - my original G3 iPod Classic won't even fit in my Philips mini stereo dock - but I expect most quality docks will produce an adaptor.
But if that were the case for me, then I think I'd rather just keep the phone to hand and send the audio to its destination using A2DP or DLNA or something rather than mess about with Yet Another Remote.
Having had A2DP in a recent hire car, I agree. I'm now going to have to fit a stereo to my car worth more than it (when it has a full tank at least):-/
Meanwhile I have a big box of old chargers in the loft from various Nokias, Samsungs and other old phones.
And iPhone owners didn't have to bin all their old chargers as they migrated from old to new?
Err.. that's right they didn't. As I said, I'm still using the charger we got with the original iPod Touch.
erm?
OK so we both had to bin old chargers when we got a new device, then 😉
Fail to see the fuss. there's 2 "standards". and both often use USB standard. Plus both can probably do wireless now for most things except 5V of power.
You massively overestimate the number of craps I give about what anyone else buys or owns.
But you keep coming back and commentating on a thread about devices which you don't own, go on prove how uninterested you are.
Incidentally, GrahamS,
That picture up there of the docking station is lovely. What's a 'lifestyle' system like that going to look like with a lump of plastic between it and a new iPhone?
I'm not trolling here, it's a genuine question; assuming the ports do actually change, then I think it's a genuine problem (not least because I bought an expensive dock for my OH who will almost certainly be upgrading her iPhone this time around). I can't see an elegant way around it unless every dock manufacturer releases model-specific sub-docks or you put up with a fugly iDaptor. And if I'd bought something that looked like that ^^ I doubt I'd be very happy doing that.
But you keep coming back and commentating on a thread about devices which you don't own, go on prove how uninterested you are.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I'm interested in the technology, not someone's purchasing habits. I think that iPhone is a revolutionary series of devices and I'm fascinated to see what Apple come up with next, but I really, truly couldn't give a shit whether you buy one or not.
You do seem to be determined to see an attack where none exists.
Wununnerd!
OK so we both had to bin old chargers when we got a new device, then
Ahh I see. Okay, yes I did box (I hoard, I never "bin") the old Nokia charger when I stepped from Nokia to Apple. (Actually I think I might have given it to my dad)
But as I went through multiple generations of Apple stuff I continued to use the old chargers. The advantage of standard connector. 😀
I always thought the 30-pin connector was a bit of an oddity, but having seen the Jobsian light I'm not looking forward to the day when I have to plug half a dozen different cables in to fully hook up my device.
Which is easier to explain to a tech-illiterate pensioner over the phone:
[i]"Plug the white cable into the bottom of your phone"[/i]
or
[i]"Plug the black mini-HDMI cable into the side of your phone, plug the 3.5mm jack into the socket at the top, plug the micro-USB power cable into the bottom, plug the micro-USB data cable into the other hole. Now connect to your wifi. Do you know the password?"[/i]
😉
That picture up there of the docking station is lovely. What's a 'lifestyle' system like that going to look like with a lump of plastic between it and a new iPhone?
Agreed it will look shit.
Though if I'd spent a grand on a hifi with an Apple dock on it I'd be looking for some manufacturer support there!
"Plug the white cable into the bottom of your phone"or
"Plug the black mini-HDMI cable into the side of your phone, plug the 3.5mm jack into the socket at the top, plug the micro-USB power cable into the bottom, plug the micro-USB data cable into the other hole. Now connect to your wifi. Do you know the password?"
*Whooooosh*
It isn't the charger issue that keeps me buying iPhones. I've simply been Jobswashed*
*See O'Flashearty, we can all make up bollocks words in the hope they'll be taken up by the hive. (But they won't**)
** See "Argualympian" for example.
Though if I'd spent a grand on a hifi with an Apple dock on it I'd be looking for some manufacturer support there!
Good point well made.
"Plug the black mini-HDMI cable into the side of your phone, plug the 3.5mm jack into the socket at the top, plug the micro-USB power cable into the bottom, plug the micro-USB data cable into the other hole. Now connect to your wifi. Do you know the password?"
What are you trying to do, land on the ISS?
😀 @ Y Darc!
Just as an aside, Apple have also just changed their [url= http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/review-the-2012-macbook-air-soars-with-ivy-bridge/3/ ]MagSafe chargers on the new MBA/MBPs, for no apparent reason, to MagSafe 2[/url]. So they are also making other chargers obselete-ish. You can, of course, buy an adapter for a [url= http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD504ZM/A ]tenner[/url].
While I can understand them tinkering with the iPhone data interfaces, space is at a premium so they will do whatever they can to reduce the internals, this smacks of bullshit.
a tenner
Cheap at half the price.
The title of the link in the OP was:
"Commission welcomes new EU standards for common [b]mobile phone[/b] charger".
What about MP3 players, tablets, cameras, GPS etc? I'm all for standards but leaving it at just mobile phones is missing the point, surely. I've got a Sony stills camera and a Sony Video camera that both have different charging leads and neither look to be what you'd call a standard.
Also, shouldn't we be looking towards syncing/charging/transferring standards that don't even need wires? It's a bit backward looking if you ask me.
"Plug the black mini-HDMI cable... %< ... plug the micro-USB power cable ... %< ... plug the micro-USB data cable ...%<
Many devices do HDMI over that micro-USB connector 🙂
And by that, I mean real HDMI 1080p video straight out of the phone, no lag. Demo I saw was Android, naturally, and when questioned about Apple, of course he had to keep schtumm, naturally 😉 (which means they must support it, or will support it, but they'd never leak such info).
PS oh and there's only 1 microUSB needed 😉
... Now connect to your wifi. Do you know the password?"
Pah! Be wireless charging and data soon. Lay your phone (i or otherwise) on top of your "dock", and it'll both charge and connect via near field comms, for which password etc. shouldn't really be needed.
Expect a patents war and 2 different standards though 🙄
lol this is going well!!
Not started as a troll (OP Here) but just confused why Apply signed up then didn't follow through?
Also what sort of luddite plugs their phone in to play music? Sonos/Spotify/lots more
As proven many times fanbois can't see what Steve don't show them and as he now rests in peace there will be nothing new for a while.... (not meant as disrespect the boy done good out of you lot)
Not started as a troll
As proven many times fanbois can't see what Steve don't show them
Worst execution of the Edinburgh defense ever!
there will be nothing new for a while
You mean apart from the load of new stuff that's come out already this year and is scheduled to come out later in the year?
Retina display iPad
Retina display MacBook Pro
New Macbook Air models
iOS6
OSX Mountain Lion
new HD Apple TV (the most under-rated Apple gadget for anyone with an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and a TV/stereo)
Maps (be interesting to see if this is actually better than Google Maps of course)
I could go on but I'll just end up looking (even more) like an Apple fan-boi 😆
Also what sort of luddite plugs their phone in to play music? Sonos/Spotify/lots more
A Luddite who wants better sound quality?
As proven many times fanbois can't see what Steve don't show them and as he now rests in peace there will be nothing new for a while.... (not meant as disrespect the boy done good out of you lot)
It was all going so well...
A Luddite who wants better sound quality?
If you care enough about a perceived difference in sound quality between a wired and a wireless connection, you won't be using a phone as a source.
...or at least use directional WiFi
deadlydarcy - Member
...or at least use directional WiFi
Curse you! Beat me to it! 😀
Arguably, if you care enough about a perceived difference in sound quality between a wired and a wireless connection, you won't be using a phone as a source.
Not really. Unless Spotify streams at 320kbps, Lame V0- or Apple Lossless.
Spotify premium does stream at 320kbps.
there's only 1 microUSB needed
So how does that work when you want to use cables to stream video to your telly, sound to your speakers and keep the phone plugged in to charge?
Like this:
[img] 
[/img]
Spotify premium does stream at 320kbps.
Then I stand corrected.
£10 a month though...
1 cable from phone to telly (OK it's gonna be a special one). microUSB at one end, HDMI at the other. Volts and Amps go on the 0V/5V pins, data on the data pins.
Line out from telly to AV Amp or whatever if you want to use real speakers (which is quite likely with LCD telly).
Demo I saw had 1080p movie and a 3D game (Doom or Unreal or something).
So all in all... neater than that pic above^^^
Mind you, a standard is not much use if it's basically secret, and only known about by a few hackers. Think my phone was the last HTC one before they introduced that capability.
edit: oh and I think you can control the phone thru the TV remote (at least on compatible TVs)
1 cable from phone to telly (OK it's gonna be a special one). microUSB at one end, HDMI at the other.
And presumably undefined [i]magic[/i] converting the 5-pin micro USB to the 19-pin HDMI?
Interesting.
Sounds like [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-definition_Link ]MHL[/url] would be a better shout than HDMI though (yay - yet more competing standards!)
yay - yet more competing standards
not really, cos MHL is connection agnostic 😉 so isn't really competing with anyone 🙂 (unless of course a manufacturer other than HTC, Samsung, Sony, LG, Nokia, Huawei, ZTE, Toshiba, or Acer, etc. want to go their own way).
edit: which still wouldn't be competing if it's still HDMI at the TV end. (unless they want their own TV with their own connector of course 😉 and I guess MHL would/should still function with displayport, etc.)
MHL is connection agnostic
Yeah, but as we've established - there is a difference between a plug physically fitting into a socket and them actually communicating usefully. 🙂
Actual display support for MHL still seems a little thin on the ground.
Though I'm sure it will pick up as it does sound like a very useful standard.
unless of course a manufacturer other than ... want to go their own way
😉 Ironically, it sounds like it would be very easy to support MHL via the Apple connector too 😀
And presumably undefined magic converting the 5-pin micro USB to the 19-pin HDMI?
[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Adapter-Dual-Purpose-Video-Galaxy/dp/B004ULZ0IW ]Magic![/url]
"support thin on the ground" = "not supported by Apple". There's a boatload of handsets that support MHL, and whilst it's not widespread amongst displays yet the breakout cable above would be enough to get it working (albeit hackishly) right now. I think, anyway. If I wanted to plug my phone into my amp and watch HD movies in surround sound from it, it'd seem that that's all I'd need, a seven quid adapter cable. That's actually kinda cool.
"support thin on the ground" = "not supported by Apple"
😀 no, "support thin on the ground" = "it's not widespread amongst displays yet"
(albeit hackishly)
Reviews on amazon are mixed. And it's not obvious from the picture but the reviews say you also need to plug a second microUSB into that box to supply the power, which is annoying.
That's actually kinda cool.
Yes it is. I like. 😀
Reviews on amazon are mixed. And it's not obvious from the picture but the reviews say you also need to plug a second microUSB into that box to supply the power, which is annoying.
yeah, true enough. That was just the first thing I found though, there's probably better solutions if I could be ringed to search.
Reviews on amazon are mixed. And it's not obvious from the picture but the reviews say you also need to plug a second microUSB into that box to supply the power, which is annoying.
Good job it's a microUSB charger and not proprietary one!
Good job it's a microUSB charger and not proprietary one!
[i]*baaaarp*[/i] Sorry, the correct answer was [i]"It would work just fine with the Apple charger too (as it is USB)"[/i]
Thinking back, I can't immediately think of a manufacturer that has continually changed adapters between devices (I'm sure there are, just I can't think of any).
Sony. Possibly the worst consumer electronics company for devising proprietary storage/connectors and not using any recognised standard. I had two Sony/Ericsson phones, one after the other, a Z600 clamshell, and a K750i. The power connection on each was completely different, and very fragile, and there were no commercial aftermarket alternatives.
Then there's MemoryStick. Everyone else in the world uses either CompactFlash, or SD, and it's taken until very recently for Sony to belatedly use SD. Nokia had a MicroUSB in the N95, but it only carried power, no data, and they also used a stupid little tiny mini-jack in their earlier phones.
Today I had a new radio installed in my car, a Kenwood DAB unit. It has a standard USB port on the front panel which I can just plug any of the half-dozen or so iPhone/iPod leads I happen to have handy into it, then plug my iPhone/160Gb iPod Classic/Nano into it and select USB on the radio. I get track and artist.
That replaced an Alpine unit that required a proprietary cable with a dongle, into which you had to plug an iPod adaptor.
Try to use a regular iPod cable plugged into the dongle and it refused to work.
I've got a bunch of wall warts around the house, a couple with dual USB, into which I plug anything that needs charging, like my Mini-X speakers, iPad, iPhone, Lumix camera...
I've got a number of different devices with completely different shaped mini/micro USB ports, the only common factor is that the other end of the cable required, (and I can never find the appropriate one when I need it), is a standard USB socket. The same one all my iDevices run off of.
That looks something like complying with a standard covering USB [b]chargers[/b].
Nobody actually knows anything about the next gen iPhone, it's all media conjecture. Apple have patented a different dock system, but it's still going to work off a universal USB charger, that's a given. Anything else is pointless arguing over until September/October, when everyone really finds out the reality of what's happening.
[edit]This just in:
“After seeing the new, smaller opening on the bottom of some leaked iPhone 5 components, I assumed that Apple was dropping the venerable Dock Connector port on its iOS devices in favor of the Micro USB standard,” Jason D. O’Grady writes for ZDNet. “Well, I might be wrong.”
“Terry Flores noted in the comments that Micro USB isn’t 19-pins (as TechCrunch confirmed the new port on the iPhone 5 is),” O’Grady writes. “MobileFun notes that the new connector on the iPhone 5 is ‘much smaller, similar in size to micro USB.’”
In a comment under the TechCrunch post, Robert Scoble throws water on my Micro USB theory. Scoble quotes an engineer ‘working in the phone world’ as saying that Apple is moving from the Dock Connector to a MagSafe-like magnetic latch (like the one on the MacBook Air and Pro)… The new cable will ‘include chips to verify licensing of accessories to be used with the devices.’ His source goes on to explain that ‘there is a chip in both ends of the new power supply that ensure that it is an official device.’”
Sony
I did idly wonder about Ericsson, but having never owned one of their products I couldn't be sure. Figures.
*baaaarp* Sorry, the correct answer was "It would work just fine with the Apple charger too (as it is USB)"
That's funny, I don't see microUSB anywhere here...
[img]
[/img]
I don't see microUSB anywhere here...
The plug/charger is USB (yes even that massive old first gen one in your picture).
And I must have at least a dozen USB-to-microUSB leads lying around the house from various different devices.
saying that Apple is moving from the Dock Connector to a MagSafe-like magnetic latch (like the one on the MacBook Air and Pro)
Interesting Count. Perhaps this could explain Jamie's earlier observation that Apple had just changed the MagSafe chargers "for no apparent reason".
How long till the other manufacturers currently using micro/mini usb change to usb3 connectors anyway, is everyone going to be playing the accusations game then, or just accept that technology moves on.
And I must have at least a dozen USB-to-microUSB leads lying around the house from various different devices.
Non-proprietary standards are great, aren't they? 😉
How long till the other manufacturers currently using micro/mini usb change to usb3 connectors anyway,
It's backwards compatible. A USB3 port will accept a USB2 cable, which should be sufficient for charging purposes. The power doesn't go any faster.
Non-proprietary standards are great, aren't they?
They are. Shame half the leads are micro-A and half are micro-B.
And that I have to examine them to weed out the ones that are actually mini-A and mini-B 🙄
It'll be interesting to see how the tablet market deals with all this.
The iPad comes with a special 10w charger (5 volts at 2.1 amp) because it takes forever to charge the big battery on a normal USB 2.0 supply of 500mA.
It's backwards compatible. A USB3 port will accept a USB2 cable, which should be sufficient for charging purposes. The power doesn't go any faster.
And what about all the other stuff that goes through the port.
Interesting Count. Perhaps this could explain Jamie's earlier observation that Apple had just changed the MagSafe chargers "for no apparent reason".
That was so they could make the 15ins retina display laptop thinner- the non- retina display 13 & 15 ins laptops (which have the same case design as last years models) still use the "old" magsafe connectors. In a Apple complies with standard shocker, it also has USB 3 & HDMI!
And what about all the other stuff that goes through the port.
What about it? It'll still go through, just more slowly.
Can't remember when I last used a cable for anything other than power anyway. How very 20th Century.
So your back to ignoring all the uses everyone else has, and just defining your own narrow requirements as the required "standard".
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Apple charge about £3 a time for use of the dock connector, and pursue any unlicensed use of it. Of course they're not going to standardise...
Not too worried about phone chargers tbh, but It's a good job the bike industry doesn't have lots of standards
(rolls eyes)! A new frame has just cost me a small fortune in replacing non compatible parts
for a long time you never had to bother taking a nokia charger anywhere as EVERY house hold had at least 1 - even if there wasnt a nokia phone in the house.
Then in the space of just one year Nokia went from pretty much the number one phone maker in the world to not even being the best selling phone brand in Finland - anyone remember how they managed to pull off that stunt?
MSP - MemberThe iphone port passes far more information through it than a usb port is capable of, ie high quality audio.
Tell me... You didn't actually think this was true, did you?
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by [b]Apple[/b], Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
Users will enjoy an easier life with their mobiles.
The number of chargers will be reduced
There will be a positive environmental impact.
ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector.
Yep. And Apple already offers micro-USB compatability for charging.
Including all their old phones, and iPods and iPads.
It looks like this:
[img] http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/2402/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/MD099?wid=326&hei=326&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp [/img]
😉
5 pages about a phone charger? you lot need to get a grip and maybe catch some daylight or interact with real people.