[Closed] Spoilt Rotten - BBC1

that 10st 5 year old! jees, from what i saw on that video he eats more than i do and i'm a growing 18 year old.

But I'm feeding my 10 stone 5 yr old healthy food so quantity isn't the problem!!!!!! WTF, I don't eat that much.

Reminds me of the tread a couple of days ago - why is the NHS costing so much - it's all the managers fault honest.

Frightening levels of stupidity on display. All the parents talk as if they have no influence over what happens at all. IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY!!!!! Do all the lollies and bottles appear out of thin air?

You need a license to have a dog....

Exactly. A 3 year old doesn't earn money, and generally don't go down the shops and buy the stuff themselves. It's tantamount to abuse. Stupidity isn't a defense imo.

[i]You need a license to have a dog.... [/i]

No you don't

My wife is a Health Visitor and some of the stories she tells about the clients she visits are unbelievable, babies been fed mashed up fish and chips and coke (drinking type not the Columbian snuff variety) in babies bottles.

I think if i was starting work again i would look at a career in child health specalising in diabetics and obesity, job for life unfortunately.

+1

Pauly - Member
You need a license to have a dog....

Not sure you do, but COMPLETELY agree with your point!

Swalsey - Member
+1

Pauly - Member
You need a license to have a dog....
Not sure you do, but COMPLETELY agree with your point!

You think people should have to have a license to have a child?

Yes was my immediate answer; many people have children who shouldn't.

But there again, No. Look what happens in China.

Do we want more abortions, or newborns left to die in a ditch somewhere.

Not that I have the answers though. Neither do our government it seems.

It is a very dangerous road to go down if someone is to decide who is and who isn't fit to have children. It is also completely unfeasible to do without sterilisation.

I teach in a large comp in the South Liverpool area featured in the doc...Can you imagine what parents' evening is like? 😯

"So Mrs Inadequate, little Jimmy isn't quite performing at his predicted level..."

I've been there so many times it's tragic! We can't educate these kids because their parents are so abusive negligent, inadequate or just thick! Their kids are products of their horrific environments and yet they are expected to perform as well at school as Harriette and Henry from leafy Berkshire?!? They need to learn how to look after themselves before we start suggesting Shakespeare and Physics are a good idea!

The father who refused to give up smoking indoors (after being told it was affecting his son's hearing problem) really peed me off. What a selfish bag of shit.

Perhaps all this points to the one simple, over riding fact: people should have a license to have children.

I got the over riding sense that the good people of Liverpool are just plain ignorant and unable to assimilate information, even when it’s clearly distressing for both the cjild & the parent.

Perhaps a targeted mass sterilisation programme should be embarked upon, not just for the UK’s sake, as I don’t think this is just the UK, but for Mankind as a species. Starting today in Liverpool!

Before this all gets out of hand, allow me to point out that this could have been shot in many socially deprived areas of the UK, and you'd have got more or less the same results. The folk on this programme were appaling, stupid and selfish, that goes without saying, but if you believe this problem is only limited to Liverpool, then perhaps eugenics isnt such a bad idea after all!
STW - it's like spending twenty minutes in a mental hospital.

What Mitch said. The fact is that you have people who are incapable of looking after themselves having kids. I think a curriculum with some proper home economics (cleaning as well as cooking), competitive sports in PE & a beefed up version of PSE (ie, budgeting, how the political system works, etc) could do wonders for the state of the country.

It is also the "largest and busiest childrens hospital in Europe" and is world renowned.
It is based in Liverpool but as Mitch says it is typical of many hospitals in the UK but polarised due to the fact that is specialises in the treatment of children.
A depressing barometer however.

Irrelevent of kids, these people also vote!

And TBH when anyone points out the stupidity of people I always remind them that The Sun is the countries' best selling newspaper...

Ti29er

I got the over riding sense that the good people of Liverpool are just plain ignorant and unable to assimilate information, even when it’s clearly distressing for both the cjild & the parent.

mitch

but if you believe this problem is only limited to Liverpool, then perhaps eugenics isnt such a bad idea after all!

Do all the lollies and bottles appear out of thin air?

She also sees it as a big victory if she gets them to eat any vegetables

Its easy to criticise looking in. My children were never going to play video games etc etc.
In reality it is a constant battle with children as they mix with others whose parents appear to have little concern for their childrens welfare.

I agree with all that, of course, but I get a little peed off when the health professionals blame smoking for just about everything - surely having a cig outside can't harm your child's ear (as stated in the programme)? I was once told that my back problems were caused by smoking (actually a scooter accident when I was 16)and that unless i gave up the 'specialist' couldn't help.

I see a STW lynch mob forming again. 😈

I have worked with "disaffected" 14 to 16-year-old people in the past. You can blame the parents/guardians for being stupid and thick or ignorant and "no wonder their kids turn out like that". My job was to look after my students, I tended to try to do this through parents/guardians, and it seemed to work. You work with the parents/guardians and even get them to help you. In order to do that though, you have to talk to them on an equal footing and not condescending and patronising like some of the posters above.

Its easy to criticise looking in.

My children
were never going to play video games etc etc.

I have to admit I've never understood why this one is a big deal.

I've seen shows and articles where parents complain about their kids being "addicted to video games", when they are playing a couple of hours a night.

Fair enough if you'd rather they were outside getting exercise, but I often wonder if the same parents would be worried by "addiction" if the kids watched two hours of telly instead.

The nurse woman who said that smoking outside was no better than inside was just as thick as some of the people she was treating. Of course it's better, but it's not as good as not smoking at all.

I like the eugenics idea above, that will solve a lot of the problems.

I have to admit I've never understood why this one is a big deal.

Graham that was an example to make a point. In reality I have no problem with my son playing on his Xbox however as a parent I have to realise that the time on said Xbox needs to be limited and only part of the multitude of things he should focus on.
For example we always allow him to play on it at weekends for up to 90 minutes (if we are not out all day etc) it suits me for him to play on it early in the morning, he can then focus on other things without looking forward to playing on it later. This works for us then he is happy to ride his bike, go for a walk, play football etc.
The point of the story is that he uses Xbox live to gameplay with school friends and whenever that 90 minutes is scheduled through the day when he picks up his headset he always plays with the same small group of boys. If his playtime is 7am or 6pm the same boys are almost always online the whole time. It concerns me that many of them play upwards of 8hrs per day!

"Irrelevent of kids, these people also vote!"
Sadly (or luckily, depending on your viewpoint) they rarely do, and in my experience, they feel generally unaffected and disconnected from trivialities such as 'politics'. When working with patient's families, I am all too often left with a sinking feeling that we've got the wrong person in care, and I often hear comments from colleagues such as 'it was no surprise' or 'with a background like that, they never stood a chance'. One of the obvious answers would be earlier intervention, but then you get the idiots in the media ranting about 'interfering busybodies', etc. Screwed either way, really. 😐
PS, my 'eugenics' comment was supposed to be ironic.

Sounds like you have a pretty healthy balance there surfer.

Parenting is hard work, you need lots of will power to face down a demanding 3 year old believe me. When crap food is so available and money not an issue its not surprising that lazy ignorant parents will give in and let little Jimmy have a lolly for breakfast because at the end of the day it means a easy life.... its just lazyness.

Just because its hard to make a 3 year old eat something they don't want to, does not mean you give up and give then refined sugar instead.

Never has "Everything in moderation" been more true and more lacking.

Failedengineer:
Do we read into your comments that you're also for a low socio-economic group, with low education, low social status and clearly drug issues (tobacco & nicotine)?
Are you also from Liverpool? 😉

failedengineer - Member
I get a little peed off when the health professionals blame smoking for just about everything - surely having a cig outside can't harm your child's ear (as stated in the programme)?

Are you that male who was profiled in the programme, sitting in the corner of the room surrounded by his drugs, unable and unwilling to accept some home truths about his son's medical condition and your drug addiction?

Shame on you Sir.

surfer - Member
It is also the "largest and busiest childrens hospital in Europe" and is world renowned.
It is based in Liverpool but as Mitch says it is typical of many hospitals in the UK but polarised due to the fact that is specialises in the treatment of children

It's also a tertiary centre, so takes kids from outside the greater Liverpool area, largely based upon the business model that has pervaded the NHS in recent years. Long gone are the days where it served just Liverpool.

I'd say that programme could have been made in any of the specialist kids hospitals across the country with similar outcomes, considering that Type 2 diabetes risk is increased in obesity and that gentically this is more prevalent among asian populations I'm somewhat surprised that AHCH was chosen as the area doesn't have a significant population of minority ethinics, if we follow the US trend then in a few years time possibly 30% of kids diagnosed with diabetes will be diagnosed with obesity related T2DM vs the small 1-2% of kids diagnosed now. I know for a fact that AHCH have caucasian obsese T2DM kids on their populations, I think it was mentioned but skirted around somewhat in the programme last night.

No denying parenting is hard work, it is making the child in the first place that is the easy part, I used to work with a paediatrician whose suggestion was to have contraception in the water, prospective parents to take a test, then get the antidote!

As a spicies, in the developed world at least, we're making the gene pool so much weaker, our population is showing all manner of signs of fractures and weaknesses which are shot through our society, with no end in sight or any real solutions to these issues we're now facing.

I think I'll bury my head in the sand and will someone call me when it's OK to come out again!

I think one of the key issues these days is parents want to be friends with their children and any unpopular parenting decisions are viewed as a personal failure.

I am very strict with my two and it does make me the bad guy at times but bottom line for me is better that than I end up with idiots for children.

If the wont eat what they are given they don't eat, their resolve usually last all of about ten minutes. How many times I've heard "well if you don't want that what would you like?" Bollocks, that's what we've got - eat or don't eat but you're not having anything else.

I expect I'm old fashioned and a tyrant but I don't care, my boys both kissed me goodnight unbidden yesterday so I expect they aren't too damaged. As for linking money and good parenting, rubbish, I know many fantastic parents who are not at all well off. For me the key for parenting is to actually give a shit about your kids the ignorant shitbags on that programme patently didn't. This is one of the few things that gets me all Daily Mail..

Totally agree Jools.

I always come across as the evil ogre with other parents. I will come down on my kids if i see them doing wrong and tbh i am not backwards at telling other kids off if i see them doing wrong.

Only this morning i was waiting for my son to get on the school bus and 20 kids were fighting over themselves to be near the front of the queue to get on. Its unbelievably dangerous because the bus was still moving. I warned them to step back but they took not a moments notice ( decided not to push the issue). All except my own son who quietly took one step backwards. I winked, he smiled and got safely on the bus.

Agreed joolsburger.

many people have children who shouldn't

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Clearly....

Absolutely agree joolsburger. The thing is just because you are strict on some things as a parent does not mean that your children don't love you or have fun with you in 10 mins time. If they throw a strop at not getting a treat then I say fine come and talk to me when you have calmed down and can be polite otherwise stay out of my sight. 10 mins later after a bit of a play / sulk in their room they re-appear and say sorry and its all smiles. You just have to set the tone from day 1 and stick to it.

I think I'll bury my head in the sand and will someone call me when it's OK to come out again!

If you could bury your cock in there with it and stop spreading your nasty bile spouting genes, then the world will surely be a better place.

There seems to have been a shift toward blaming discipline for mental health issues in later life, my parents smacked me so I became a rapist etc.

A big problem facing all modern parents with my mindset is that increasingly we are in a minority viewed as old fashioned and harsh.
My eldest often tells me that so and so's dad never shuts him in his room or grounds him on the day of a party. It's a fine line but I hope that in later life he might understand.

Dead:
Which of the Liverpudlian's were you in last night's programme?
Do you feel left out?

Jool's reference to some parents being too much pals rings a bell with a friend's kids, one of whom is known by his mother as "mate" (13yrs old), the other is simply 9 yr old "Anna". The boy has all manner of issues with his father especially & is in councelling & considers himself emotionally damaged. The father has stepped well back from the family as "mate" and mother seem to have an almost unnatrual relationship which is causing all manner of issues, but of course, unseen by the mother; leaving the girl in no-man's land.

Do you feel left out?

Now that I've got a bit of your shit, no, I don't anymore.

What you are trying to say joolsbrger (I think) is that without parameters a child will become unruly and ill disciplined.Define the boundaries and stick to them and the child will begin/continue to behave like a decent person. If that is what you are saying then IMO you are 100% correct.

Economics is irrelevant, I know lots of people who grew up in economically deprived backgrounds and they have not gone off the rails, quite the opposite, they are respectful of others without being social lemmings. Many of the worst behaved kids I know come from well funded, comfortably middle class backgrounds where money is no issue, the parents are just pants!

jools, we seem to have very similar thoughts.

I have considered writing my son a letter for when he is older to explain that everything i do is to keep him safe and set him up for the future. It is sometimes the hardest thing to be unpopular and carry out the punishment but i want my son (and daughter) to know that there are consequences to their own actions.

It is paying of in a sense because we both have a shared interest of football now (He forced me back into it) and because he is so sensible he is able to accept a lot more responsibility than lads of similar age.

How many 7 yr olds are assistant manager to a sunday mens football side? Can sit in a packed pub with a load of blokes and hold a conversation. Only last week one of our chaps got man of the match. Ben piped up "how can he get man of the match, he's 57". The man in question told him to shut up as he is only 52 🙂 Everyone was peeing themselves.

I just pray that by the time he is old enough to be put into a position where he must make the sensible choice which will effect his life (Drugs, girls etc), he is grounded enough to make it. Those that have had the easy life may not have the upbringing to realise the consequences of their choices.

joolsburger - Member
I think one of the key issues these days is parents want to be friends with their children and any unpopular parenting decisions are viewed as a personal failure.

+1, how many times do the idiots who want others to take charge use such phrases as "stop doing that or else ********* will tell you off......."

Meaning they are too weak to chastise or discipline their own kid.

I work (when well) as a kids nurse, and when I hear a parent use the above phrase, "stop doing that or them an will tell you off" I just respond with a "no I won't, that isn't my job, your child needs to trust me". It's even worse working with kids with long term conditions where the parents often seem to expect me to be a surrogate for them. "Wait till I tell MFL what you've been doing....".

I heard a description once of a parenting style, very tongue in cheek, of "peerenting", not wanting to parent but wanting to be a "peer" with their offspring.

It's reassuring to hear that I'm not alone in my thinking. I suppose I am lucky in that my kids have always seen me leave for work do a long day and come home so I suppose that sets the tone in my house. I have never tried to protect them from life's harsh realities, when my eldest wants something I make him work for it, he is beginning to understand life and the things he wants are not free.

The biggest issue for me is the age gap, there is 5 years between them and so the littlun obviously gets away with more than the eldest and that is tense sometimes.

I don't claim to be superdad by any stretch but I am thankful that my parents were people who knew that the role of a parent is to prepare a kid for life and all it will throw at them. My peers are mostly wealthy middle class types and some of their kids seem to think life is a gravy train and don't seem to have a great amount of personal responsibility.
The look on some of their faces when they come round to find my kids cleaning, hoovering and so on is a source of real amusement to me.

I make plenty of mistakes but one over riding memory reminds me what it's about, when I was a kid I was more scared of my parents reaction than my teachers if I got in trouble at school, I think it's meant to be that way..

I know that making time for the kids is hard to do but it's the job I took on so.....

Sensible parents will always outnumber the "peerents", but will do in a quiet manner, making less headlines.

I work in a district hospital on Merseyside (in paediatrics) 8 miles away from AHCH so everything that I saw in that programme last night I can relate to practicvally every single working day (and basically every day just in the local community)

I don't understand why it should be that way though, there are a couple of estates round here and my kids are at school with the kids from them and they all seem hard working, well adjusted kids with sensible parents who want their children to succeed. I wonder what tips the balance the other way in some areas, I suppose a lack of opportunity must be the thing.

I'm going to comment about Merseyside here (and expect some flaming for it) but around here it is more what you have/look like, rather than who you are that makes the difference, so long as you have the right clothes, car, blah de blah, then you're OK, rather than "they've got their head screwed on the right way". Even where my son goes to school I can see parents who are completely not arsed about the basics that their child needs, although the inevitable urban spread means some families that a few years ago were in Liverpool have migrated outwards into the greater Merseyside area.

I've got no idea whether than translates across the country, having lived nowhere else other than Merseyside, but it is very materialistic locally, and some of this must be down to the easy access to credit in the past meaning for a period of time anyone could get anything they wanted without having to work too hard for it.

Absolutely disgraceful, tantamount to child abuse. Clearly Liverpudlians should not be allowed to have children.

How on earth can any parent look themselves in the mirror every morning having given their child that ****ing accent 😉

"How many 7 yr olds are assistant manager to a sunday mens football side? Can sit in a packed pub with a load of blokes and hold a conversation."

I would be gutted if my footy teams assistant manager was 7.. I am guessing you're the gaffer?

TBH I would hope my little un is playign with kids of her own age than being dragged to the pub with her dad.

joolsburger - you will be very well respected by your children.
My father brought me up the way you're bringing up your 2 and secretly he was the one I always sought advice from and repected more, even though Mum was a softer personality and occaisionally spoilt the 3 of us.

I don't spoil my 7 year old nephew at all, other than in time and love, he whines and has the odd hissy fit when I don't pander to his wants, ( as hubby say's 'I want doesn't get'). He will eat his food, 'cos as you say there won't be anything else otherwise. I am always shocked when we take him to children's parties how the other children are fed and spoilt.

My best friends son is 8st at the age of 10, she can't see what she's doing wrong and I value our friendship too much to do anything other than drop the odd tiny hint. However I am only an auntie and not a mother, so I can't pass judgement.

I don't claim to be superdad by any stretch

I beg to differ... 😀

Well I didn't want to come over as that!!

To be honest I've been worried I'm too harsh with them so was prolly hoping I wasn't alone.

As someone who watched all of 1 minute of the programme last night (my two boys begged me to turn it off!), I think that this thread is going to mean that I'm off to watch it on iPlayer.

However, I'm not hopeful that I will either determine that there's a simple solution, or that this situation is solely confined to one geography, socio-economic group, or parent-classification. As someone who has built a career based around telling people that life's pretty simple - it isn't.

The 'stars' of the programme were from Liverpool - doesn't mean that all Liverpudlians are so. Economics may not be THE factor, but it may be A factor.

Judging from the families around me I'd say that obesity and general spoiling could also be attributed to only children ... but then life isn't that simple is it.

They're feeding them up because fat kids are sexy.

The biggest issue for me is the age gap, there is 5 years between them and so the littlun obviously gets away with more than the eldest and that is tense sometimes.

Amen to that brother! Also good to see that I'm not the only parent who is not afraid of saying no.

I once took my nephew (then aged 4) to a local craft fair, where they were painting childrens faces for charity. When the lady had finished his face, she passed a huge jar of lollipops over to my nephew, I shouted NO, all the other parents turned around and stared at me. I don't care though, his teeth are more important than what other people think.

+1 to so many of the comments on here.

I know that making time for the kids is hard to do but it's the job I took on so.....

amen to that.

Another piece of advice my Dad gave me (and he's definitely in the superdad and now supergrandad category): don't worry too much about being the best Dad in the world. Being the best Dad that you can possibly be will be plenty good enough.

she passed a huge jar of lollipops over to my nephew, I shouted NO, all the other parents turned around and stared at me. I don't care though, his teeth are more important than what other people think.

I don't think the odd lollipop is going to do much harm. Excess is the problem, like most of the examples in the documentry yesterday. (I'm assuming the whole jar wasn't intended for your nephew?)

So glad I don't have kids!

I don't think the odd lollipop is going to do much harm. Excess is the problem, like most of the examples in the documentry yesterday

Yep completely agree with that.

We don't really stop our (7 year old) daughter from eating anything inparticular - but we control what she has and when she has it.

Nowt wrong with the odd junk meal and sweets, is just when they have them everyday that the problems hit.

I'll have to watch that now.
Out of interest do any kids ever watch TV anymore, they dodn't do they.

[i]Out of interest do any kids ever watch TV anymore, they dodn't do they.
[/i]

Outr girl does, and plays video games, and goes on the computer (all in moderation!) - but her favourite 'toy' is her toolkit* and loads of bits of wood, and some nails and screws. It sounds like Frank Spencer at work when she's working away in the shed!!

(*proper tools, not plastic ones - hammer, screwdrivers, pliers etc!)

He doesn't like ketchup and will refuse to eat his food if any ketchup gets on it, but he insists on it being on his plate

Hmm, someone doesn't understand kids very well. When I was a kid I absolutely refused point blank to undo the top button when wearing a shirt.

Plus, you can't force kids to do what you want. You just can't. Psychology runs deep, you need to work with it not against it.

Plus, you can't force kids to do what you want.

An often overlooked point by those that dont have kids!

Its easy to say my kids will do this, not do that etc. As you say you have to work with it.

when my eldest wants something I make him work for it

An approach that must be handled with care though - it can build resentment (as in my Wife's family). Not that it's not a good idea, but sensitivity is required, as in all things 🙂

The problem is the parents. Not the kids.

Parents just spoil their kids rotten without knowing the consequences.

🙄

Just starting to watch the prog. That is one fat 5 yr old.

[i]Plus, you can't force kids to do what you want. You just can't. Psychology runs deep, you need to work with it not against it.[/i]

But presumably there's pretty simple things you can do such as rather than buying lollipops and then saying "you're not allowed a lollipop", just don't buy them in the first place.
Kid free (so I don't understand), but brought up in a lollipop free house.

I think a lot of people fail to realise that sometimes when a child is acting up it's purely to find boundaries, if you out them in place then they know where the line is, if you give in then they will push further next time.
Although I think my boys ate a reasonable amount of crayons this morning, oh well I'll just make sure they get fewer crayons at dinner time!

But presumably there's pretty simple things you can do such as rather than buying lollipops and then saying "you're not allowed a lollipop", just don't buy them in the first place

Of course. But that's not what I meant. I was kind of thinking of the kid with the ketchup. Someone implied that they'd try and make them stop doing that.

[i]I would be gutted if my footy teams assistant manager was 7.. I am guessing you're the gaffer? [/i]

Nope the manager is someone i have played for on and off for 20yrs. He has been a manager at a few proffesional clubs and is a guy i respect as he kinda filled in when my dad buggered off. I take my son to footy and feel really comfortable with the guys on the sidelines looking out for him whilst i play. After a few weeks the manager said Ben was talking so much on the sidelines he was now assistant manager. The next week when i went down injured my lad runs on with the water bucket, wipes my knee, asks if i am ok then tells me i am coming off!! I told him where to go 😉

Its humour tbh but he loves being involved. Considering how much swearing goes on i worried that it would effect him but he understands that if he repeats any of the words (C&&T, **** etc so really bad ones which i cant get them to stop) the footy will finish. As i say i try to teach him that he can choose his actions.

[i]TBH I would hope my little un is playign with kids of her own age than being dragged to the pub with her dad. [/i]

Swimming on fridays
U7's football on saturdays (I coach them)
My football on sundays
Football training on mondays

That gives him tue/wed/thur to play with his pals. I need some time to have a laugh with my son aside from just discipline.

You can force kids to do what you want, that's the point really. Force needn't mean brutality, I'd be a bit miffed if I couldn't outsmart a 9 year old.

You can force kids to do what you want, that's the point really

Again - no. Ask my parents how much veg I ate as a kid, and how much time and effort they spent trying to make me. Likewise homework.

Some kids will starve rather than give in.

You can however encourage them to do what you want - different thing altogether.

Some kids will starve rather than give in.

Hmm, someone doesn't understand kids very well.

My youngest tried the I'm not eating veg thing and that worked for about 15 minutes & he's all good now. I gave him a bit of what he liked in return for a mouthful of veg from him, he still wont do brocolli which is fine but he needs his veggies so not eating them was not an option. I know some kids seem like they wont give in but they will eventually.
I really feel for people who's kids are obstinate though, I reckon I'm quite lucky.

I think they just need to know who's boss and that means some level of discomfort for a parent because sometimes they really don't like it.

But if the child has been brought up in a consistent manner from infancy then I don't believe that is true in the vast majority of cases.

No? I don't believe it's true in the [i]vast majority[/i] of cases either but it doesn't mean it's not a significant factor. Having been there myself and heard a lot about how other people's kids behave.