[Closed] Splitting the bill.

So because of this expected culture

it's not though is it... this 'culture' is the preserve of overbearing lah de dah middle class aspirational jonesy ****s, who deserve in the main to choke on their starters 🙂

it's not though is it... this 'culture' is the preserve of overbearing lah de dah middle class aspirational jonesy ****, who deserve in the main to choke on their starters

It starred out Binners? Weird.

I've been on trips to germany with the lads for the last 10yrs.
I won't be going this year.
I have no objection to splitting the bill.
None - never have done until last year, the point was reached when one or two members of the group were ordering Steins when others were on kleiners.
Schnapps when some were on water or diet coke.
Once perhaps on the last night blow out.
But at every meal - no.
The biggest pisstake was at Sabine's restaurant where two of us had schnitzel (admittedly sodding great portions), a coffee and plenty of water as it'd been over 40 degrees that day. Iced water is free there btw.
The other 7 in the group all had various steaks, starters, schnapps, whiskey, etc.
I had to make a call home so was outside when the bill came and promptly got told after the fact that my "share" was €50. For a €16 euro actual cost.
Needless to say that didn't go unsaid.
There's times to just split and not worry so as to keep everything amicable however theres also a line that some are far too happy to cross.

[quote=cranberry ]The thing with a service charge is that you have no idea where it is going to once you have paid it. Querying where it goes to and removing it from the bill if you are unhappy with the answer is nothing to be ashamed of*, as long as you ensure that you tip the staff that served you an equivelent amount.
* remember it might be fairly split amongst *all* of the staff of the establishment, including the ones you don't see in the kitchen.

With the group I was with last week, the refusal to pay the service charge was nothing to do with who might ultimately get it, rather they refused to tip 10%. By my rough calcs they gave 5%. And all the complaining was done within earshot of the waiting staff, who'd ran hand and foot to us all night. No one wanted for anything, drinks were replenished quickly, service was excellent.

I had to make a call home so was outside when the bill came and promptly got told after the fact that my "share" was €50. For a €16 euro actual cost.

I probably know the answer here, but here goes.
Was the atmosphere, with this group and its associated banter, likely to be the same as you having a solitary 16 Euro meal?
I apreciate that this wasn't worth 34 Euros. This is one of the things I don't understand. You go out with friends, people you like being with, people that enrich your life and at the end of an evening put a price on that relationship.
I've got friends who don't pay rounds, as mentioned earlier, but they give in other areas.
If they become leeches they soon stop being friends, as Junkyard says it's all about give and take and that's fair. Not paying your fair share isn't and you don't get an invite and it appears that there are differing opinions on what is fair.

as Junkyard says it's all about give and take and that's fair.

I dont make them pay for fuel before someone asks 😉

Designated driver should have all their drinks paid for, never mind subsidising the drunks.

Boardingbob - I would have been horribly embarrassed in that case and would have apologised to the staff/made some sort of financial gesture ( size almost certainly based on how squiffy I was ) in the hope of shaming/encouraging the other members into recognising the service that they got.

My point was more that it can be hard to make sure that the tips go to all of the right people - a good restaurant will take the service charge and split it between all staff as they have all contributed to providing you with a good experience, a bad place will take the service charge and pocket it/use it to subsidise wages. Likewise if you tip the server you can't rely on them sharing that money out fairly to other members of staff.

My give is to be the designated driver for all the drunk folk.I am not paying for them to get drunk.

My point was more that it can be hard to make sure that the tips go to all of the right people - a good restaurant will take the service charge and split it between all staff as they have all contributed to providing you with a good experience, a bad place will take the service charge and pocket it/use it to subsidise wages. Likewise if you tip the server you can't rely on them sharing that money out fairly to other members of staff.

I've got an idea which might find a third way between these two troublesome methods- I've got a feeling the odd business type already do it.....How about the restaurant charge enough to pay their staff sufficiently; the customer pays what it says on the menu and leaves the performance management to the manager who only employs folk who give good service without having to be bribed. It'll never catch on.

Was the atmosphere, with this group and its associated banter, likely to be the same as you having a solitary 16 Euro meal?

Where do you stand on the others in the group who'd had a €90 meal / drinks for €50? Bargain, right?

Or, if the €16 meal is worth €50 in real terms, maybe those consuming €80 should be throwing in €240 for the same value / markup?

Where do you stand on the others in the group who'd had a €90 meal / drinks for €50? Bargain, right?

I find it odd that I even have to explain this

yeah, you're right
We should always pay our mates to let us hang out with them

I think you may have lost sight of what being friends means

I think you may have lost sight of what being friends means

Proper mates don't put a price on being mates.

I find it odd that I even have to explain this.

I find it odd that you attach a material value to such things. I can spend time with friends without needing to spend any money at all, and offer what advice I can on here freely to complete strangers. Hell, I moderate the forum out of the love of it, maybe I should hit up Mark for a cheque?

Regardless, if we are paying for friendship, shouldn't we be paying friends rather than the venue?

Would it be right for me complain about you paying less? Probably not. Or, to redress the balance, if I am able to give you something that might otherwise have a monetary value during our mealtime conversation

So, you go out for a meal with friends, you save them £200 with your advice, so they should foot the bill by dint of payment?

You're in London, aren't you?

It means stuffing them for a couple of quid in a restaurant, or they're not mates.
Proper mates don't put a price on being mates.

No they don't, but as I said at the outset, that assumes everyone has equal ability to throw money around. €50 might be "a couple of quid" to you, but it isn't to me right now. I could really, really use someone throwing that sort of money my way out of sheer altruism. Maybe I should start charging for IT advice?

I find it odd that you attach a material value to such things. I can spend time with friends without needing to spend any money at all, and offer what advice I can on here freely to complete strangers. Hell, I moderate the forum out of the love of it, maybe I should hit up Mark for a cheque?

Op, KISS

1. Dont go out to dinner with tight ars*s

2. Dont be an ars* when you go out for dinner with your mates

3. err.....that's it

martinhutch - Member
Designated driver should have all their drinks paid for, never mind subsidising the drunks.

No they don't, but as I said at the outset, that assumes everyone has equal ability to throw money around. €50 might be "a couple of quid" to you, but it isn't to me right now. I could really, really use someone throwing that sort of money my way out of sheer altruism. Maybe I should start charging for IT advice?

You're in London, aren't you?

Funny thread, when we go out for meals with friends, it's pretty simple, we all spend about the same so we split the bill, it's generally 3 drinks each, wine for the dorrises and beer for the blokes, a starter and a main.

If one person decided they wanted a £30 main and shots of brandy too, and then insisted the bill was split, well,that wouldn't wash for a second with any of us, and rightly so.
Equaly if someone didn't have a starter, thier contribution would be about a fiver less.

Tips we generally round up to the nearest fiver.

Are you designated driver every time you go out, even if one isn't required?

Proper mates don't put a price on being mates

I wouldn't trust that Junkyard chap, about 12 hours ago:
[quote=Junkyard ]Leaving thread it just gets insulting

😉

thm kind of did it just up there, but this thread is easily summarised: don't be a dick

[s]If you've all had similar meals then[/s] getting out a calculator is being a dick
If you've eaten something more expensive or had more/pricier drinks then not chipping in more is being a dick
If somebody in your group is a [s]tightarse[/s] teetotal vegan whose meal cost less than everybody else then expecting them to chip in the same is being a dick
If somebody in the group is short of money and you're rolling in it, then expecting them to pay the same is being a dick (depending on circumstance - they may feel insulted not to, in which case insisting they pay less is being a dick)
Not paying a tip when you've got good service is being a dick

It's really not hard.

BTW in case it needs saying I'd far rather go out for a meal with JY than some of the sad gits on this thread - I'll even promise not to contaminate his onion bhajis (can't remember how we split the meal when we went out, though no booze or steaks, so I'm assuming he wasn't subsidising us - if he did then 😳 )

So for all of those who are concearned about the low paid, how much do you tip in the pub? Somebody could be serving you beer all night? What about in the newsagent or corner shop? How about the nurse who treats you in hospital? The government takes a hammering for subsidising cheap skate employers now people should subsidise a sub set of employee's or worse as pointed out the dreaded service charge! Miraculouly 10% on top of your bill designated to go nowhere - I linked back on the first page to where they had incorporated that into the price and clearly told people that and that the rise went to paying the staff a sensible wage for the work they were doing.

As for splitting, I can't think of any good mates who would order way more and insist on splitting or any who would object to the person who had the least paying their smaller share. Thats what good mates do.

I'm all for the end of tipping as a default expectation with the living wage coming in etc.

The living wage is not coming in. They are rebranding the minimum wage as the living wage. This is still going to be significqntly lower than the actual "living wage"

mikewsmith - Member
So for all of those who are concearned about the low paid, how much do you tip in the pub?

Quite often buy the bar staff a pint. Good practice if you want served first when it's busy.

This is still going to be significqntly lower than the actual "living wage"

Cougar - Moderator
Was the atmosphere, with this group and its associated banter, likely to be the same as you having a solitary 16 Euro meal?
Where do you stand on the others in the group who'd had a €90 meal / drinks for €50? Bargain, right?

Or, if the €16 meal is worth €50 in real terms, maybe those consuming €80 should be throwing in €240 for the same value / markup?

I have never and still don't have an issue splitting the bill.
My "issue" in this instance was it had been a consistent piss take all week long by the 2 new guys to the group (both friends of only one of the others).
First few nights the difference was €5-10.
Then €15-20 and so on.
By the end of the week two of the usuals had joined in so the shares were massively skewed.
Add to that that the day before a couple of the others had said we weren't divying up for the last few nights because of the amount the new guys, etc were drinking.
I wasn't asked or given a choice - just told in the taxi that my "share" was £X.
I don't put a price on friendship but at the same time I also won't stand to be taken for a ride either.

getting out a calculator is being a dick

Agreed, but not for the reason stated above.

I can't imagine a circumstance where I'd choose to eat a meal with anyone stupid enough to need a calculator to work out the cost of their meal.

I don't put a price on friendship but at the same time I also won't stand to be taken for a ride either.

Essentially ever single meal i go to my bill will always be the least so I always have to subsidise others. its not a swings and roundabout event its just me paying for their stuff.

Imagine you always dorve your mate to trails and he never paid for this
Would you keep going?

I would if they were an impoverished person or a student or whatever but in general I would not as it is taking the piss. Friends dont do that freeloaders do that

junkyard, ok we get it, you're some sort of weirdo with abstinence, from everything, at the core of your philosophy, you're excused from the company. 😆

(ps would be easier if you just asked for a separate bill mind you. :lol:)

JY busy spreading his unique brand of happiness and joy de vivre throughout a grateful world...

[img] [/img]

😀

😀

I'll even promise not to contaminate his onion bhajis

I was the quintessence of calm at bhajigate

separate bill for the sad abstinate friendless weirdo loner will be the cry I make next time i get invited out so will it be post brexit or after england win the world cup 😉

I'm going to join in with my pet hate, couples who join in with drinks rounds, but only expect to have to buy one round between them rather than getting them in individually 😡

Junkyard

Essentially every single meal I go to my bill will always be the least so I always have to subsidise others. its not a swings and roundabout event its just me paying for their stuff.

Imagine you always dorve your mate to trails and he never paid for this
Would you keep going?

Do you get other benefits from spending time with your friends? You may be contributing more to them overall, but perhaps without them, you'd feel sad and lonely, and have to start making friends with other people. And they might not be as nice, or have as much in common with you.

You should work out how much you are paying in to your friends events, and work out how much you're getting out, and then maybe think about other things you could spend that money on - healthcare for example, or taking up fishing.

We had a saying that the world works if you accept that everyone owes everyone a tenner. It stops working if your always taking.

wine for the dorrises and beer for the blokes

So Blue Nun and Watneys red barrel? Why not do the whole 70's eating out thing and have the men pay the bill 🙄

perhaps without them, you'd feel sad and lonely, and have to start making friends with other people. And they might not be as nice, or have as much in common with you.

Imagine you always have do rounds and your drink is always £3 and theres is always £6 will you buy this round for ever so they will be your friend?

Junkyard

Imagine you always have do rounds and your drink is always £3 and theirs is always £6 will you buy this round for ever so they will be your friend?

Do you and your friends get together to decide which pub/restaurant/takeout you're going to, and who's going to drive, and when you will all get there, and other random made-up rules? Maybe if you stop being friends with them, and stop subsidising their spending, they won't let you help decide, but you'll still have to go along in order to be polite and to have any company.

So you might find they've all decided to go to an Italian restaurant, but you really don't fancy pizza, but they just ignore your protests. And you end up having to go to a Korean restaurant instead, and eat kimchee on your own.

And not even the good kind of kimchee.

And then to cap it all, they find that they don't have enough money to pay the bill at the Italian place, and they spot you all alone in the Korean restaurant, and make you pay for their meal [b]anyway[/b].

Had a guy on a cycling holiday 4 years ago. Tighter than cramp. Ordered steak every night when nearly everyone else on pizza/pasta.Rinsed the kitty and swept up any spare drinks. Copper by trade. Now has the non-affecionate nickname "Sergeant Sirloin".

JY - it's your round on Monday night. I'll be having the vintage chateauneuf du pape. Will you be going for the fizzy water? 😛

And not even the good kind of kimchee.

I was with you until here, then I lost all respect. All kimchee is good, especially that kept in a kimchee fridge.

[quote=binners ]JY - it's your round on Monday night. I'll be having the vintage chateauneuf du pape. Will you be going for the fizzy water?
[s]Fizzy water ernie was right you are a middle class ****er :wink:[/s]
Ok but only if you say in here that you are my friend as lets be honest that is all I am paying for