[Closed] Speed awareness course or 3 points. Decision time

Maybe all courses are not created equal, but the one I did 18 months ago was pretty dull and un informative.

They didn't really tell me anything about speeding. It was just a brush up on basic Highway Code knowledge.

But, it did seem better than the points.....

The course leaders did think I'd been hard done by. 44 in a 40 limit. But I was in my van which apparently makes them judge you more harshly. The fact I was driving to the Peak for a days riding is irrelevant.

The course was painless though. Three hours. Dull. But I got tea and a biscuit. Learnt nothing new.

[img] [/img]

46 in a 40. 50 on the clock.

The idea that "a few miles over the limit is fine" is nonsense. It makes a big difference.

Should be automatic points in my view.

Take the course - it's a gift.

You all need to watch this, brings it all home...

Has anyone done one of these courses

Ahem.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-1
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-2
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-courses
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-attendees
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-here-done-a-speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/pitchforks-at-the-ready-speed-awareness-course-content
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect-1

Has anyone done one of these courses
Ahem.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-1
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-2
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-courses
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-attendees
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-here-done-a-speed-awareness-course
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/pitchforks-at-the-ready-speed-awareness-course-content
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/speed-awareness-course-what-to-expect-1

Yous prob got a special searching enjin Cougar Mod.

Yep.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/search-the-current-site/jliolpcnkmolaaecncdfeofombdekjcp?hl=en

One said he did the course and wish he'd taken the points.8 hours of his life he won't get back.

I don't see what the objection was to wanmankylung's comment either. It made sense to me.

[quote=singletrackmind ]You also might learn something .
Like the chap on mine who thought it was OK to hit pedestrians on the road as they didnt have right of way , cars did.

I already know that thanks. I don't think I've seen anything I didn't know from reports people have made about these courses. I'm certainly not claiming to be a perfect driver, but I do regularly read the HC (like molly, for internet smart-aresery) and less than convinced that a SAC would teach me anything given the standard of typical candidates they're catering to. I'm also in the West Mercia area as mentioned above.

Hence I'm very glad that when I was last caught (for 57 in a 50 which used to be a 70) I took the points. Made no difference to my insurance (I checked quotes with and without), didn't have to use a day's holiday. I don't understand why people ignore the latter point - I rolled over days holiday after that until I was made redundant, and over £100 up as a result of having an extra day's holiday they paid me for. Have managed to avoid getting caught again in the 5 years since.

[quote=wanmankylung ]Everyone at the course is guitly of poor observation: failing to see whatever was just about to cost them a day off and a few £20 notes.

Mobile vans point their cameras at the point where vehicles first become visible (hence where the van is first visible to drivers), so the first point you can see it is too late. IME. I'm certain the previous time I was caught, as my speed (85 in a 70!) was what I was doing as I came over the brow and slammed on the brakes the instant the van was visible.

molgrips
pointing out to people how little time you save by driving over the limit.

Pfft, i did 150mph the other day on a motorway and i got there in under half the time............... 😉

The course I went on was full of people feeling hard done by for being caught:

I just said " I was driving like a ****, got caught, glad to be here as they had not originally offered me the course"

CBARTA so here's my tuppence ...

I attended a SAC 2 years ago and didn't really expect to get much out of it. Turned out to be the opposite as a I learned a fair few safety-oriented changes in behaviour that I recall every time I get in the car. It's not just about cutting your speed - it's also about understanding the road/drivers in a way that you don't learn from an instructor/assessor when starting out.

I don't think I've seen anything I didn't know from reports people have made about these courses. I'm certainly not claiming to be a perfect driver, but I do regularly read the HC (like molly, for internet smart-aresery) and less than convinced that a SAC would teach me anything given the standard of typical candidates they're catering to.

That was entirely my experience when I took it. I often see reports from people extolling the virtues of the course (there's one or two on this very thread), and all I can conclude is that those folk either sat a different course to me or were pretty poor drivers to start with.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anything taught that I didn't already know; about the only thing off the top of my head was a long spiel about the ramifications of having an accident and the sheer number of people affected. That was pretty eye-opening.

I learned a fair few safety-oriented changes in behaviour

That's interesting; such as?

(You posted that whilst I was typing, I wasn't intentionally referencing you there.)

it's also about understanding the road/drivers in a way that you don't learn from an instructor/assessor when starting out.

That's a good point, thanks to the other attendees I learned quite a bit about some frankly terrifying drivers that I share a road with.

Well I had a tossbag who introduced himself as a Subaru driver, who thought speeding was 'OK if you were racing someone'

And the 40 year service bus driver who didn't know basic signs (Give Way fr'instance) and who was stopped during the practical bit because his driving was so terrible.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anything taught that I didn't already know

Well, you are awesome, aren't you?

I get a driving course every 2 years from work. I always learn something. If your mind is open, it's astonishing what might go in.

I'm with Cougar on his one.....

Mine was pretty boring but TBH better than points..thing is you never know when your gonna accumulate some more so the chance to to not have any...

Just remember its much safer if your looking at the speedo all the time in a constant worry that you may be going 1-3 mph over the limit 🙂

Does make you wonder why speedos aren't put in better places tbh.

who was stopped during the practical bit because his driving was so terrible

since when did speend awareness courses include a practical section?

Rachel

Well, you are awesome, aren't you?

I get a driving course every 2 years from work. I always learn something. If your mind is open, it's astonishing what might go in.

Nothing to do with my awesomeness, simply that the content of the course didn't teach me anything I didn't already know. Is that so difficult to believe? There also wasn't a "practical bit" in the one I did, they stopped doing that I believe. Your work's driving course is a non-sequitur; it's a different course so irrelevant, if I sat a different course I might well have learned something too.

Eg, I probably wouldn't learn anything on a basic numeracy course, but probably learn quite a lot if I went on an A-level maths course. That doesn't make me Stephen Hawking, it just means that I've taken some time to learn how to count.

Just remember its much safer if your looking at the speedo all the time in a constant worry that you may be going 1-3 mph over the limit

You know, if you are a really good driver, you can control your speed without needing to do this 🙂

... which is why no-one is ever prosecuted for doing 31mph. Given that speedos' tolerances can only ever overread (legally), to secure a prosecution your dial would have to be reading somewhere between 35 and 40mph at a bare minimum. That's not a "not looking at my speedo constantly" margin of error, it's driving without due care. Doubly so now with the proliferation of cruise control.

You're right, of course. I can usually sit the car somewhere comfortably around 30mph or 40mph without looking at the speedo, I do it as an exercise sometimes to see how close I can get. It's quite a handy game for learning what different speeds feel like.

My insurance company asked me if I have attended a speed awareness course last time I renewed, so maybe they are catching onto to this?

Not that I'm one to condone fibbing to insurance companies but how would they find out... 😉

... which is why no-one is ever prosecuted for doing 31mph. Given that speedos' tolerances can only ever overread (legally

You'd be surprised, the digital readout of speed in my Insignia matches the GPS measurement from my Garmin Edge exactly.

re: 35 in a 30 zone

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening

like a kid running out in front of you. (they do that kind of thing sometimes.)

or an novice/wobbly/elderly/young/stupid cyclist in poor visibility conditions without good hi-viz in a vunerable position ... etc etc...

statistics show that the number of serious injuries have reduced quite significantly since the introduction of this scheme, this is much more useful than giving people points or fines and is also cheaper thant cleaning up the cost of accidents. a sensible use of revenue.

If you did not understand at least this from attending one of these courses the instructors failed or you should not have a licence.

If you do understand this and still use inappropriate speed I hope you have an enforced break from driving before something nasty happens.

Advanced driving tuition is not what you should expect from a SAC, it is to remind you why there are speed limits and to help you avoid killing/maiming somebody in the case of an accident.

that is all.

and no, speeding in urban areas does nothing to reduce your journey time.

Difficult one - 'have you been caught speeding'

Yes.

'have you any speeding convictions'

No.

Is there an open/accessible database anywhere where outside parties can check the data?

[quote=iffoverload ]The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening
...
If you did not understand at least this from attending one of these courses the instructors failed or you should not have a licence.

I already knew this, so what would I have gained from the course?

aracer

I already knew this, so what would I have gained from the course?

iffoverload

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people...

....Advanced driving tuition is not what you should expect from a SAC...

😉

39 in a 40, I clearly thought it was 40 as its was a dual carrageway through the middle of an post industrial wasteland - near the manchester velodrome.

Course boring as hell but learnt a few thing and my driving is all the better for it. take the course, you might learn something and you may avoid killing someone. cant really complain about that.

I got caught on a mobile camera doing 64 about 200m into a 50 zone - in my van . I was very thankful for the option of taking the course . It was worth it just to hear some of the whiny excuses people came up with .

[quote=mrchrispy ]you might learn something and you may avoid killing someone. cant really complain about that.

At a real cost of >£100 more than taking the points, you're going to have to do better than "might" and "may".

My course a few years ago (37 just after a 30 sign, but by a school - and really stupid of me) was good. Had some time with an advanced instructor, some good technical advice. Interesting how many people thought the NSL was 50mph... Not a waste of time at all. And of course if you take 3, then get another 3 points, [i]that [/i]will cost you.

Interesting how many people thought the NSL was 50mph...

I don't think anyone on my course had any real confident idea what the speed limits were beyond "I think..." and the ones who did have half a clue still had no idea what, say, the actual difference between a single- and a dual-carriageway was.

statistics show that the number of serious injuries have reduced quite significantly since the introduction of this scheme

I don't doubt that for a moment. What it boils down to is this: the SAC is a basic course, but some people are so shockingly incompetent that a basic course is exactly what's required. And I'm not saying that for "I R ORSUM" reasons, rather that some of the things coming out of the other attendees' mouths were simply unbelievable.

At a real cost of >£100 more than taking the points, you're going to have to do better than "might" and "may".

I don't think so. "Might" is a lot better than "won't" imo.

Going on a SAC might result in you meeting the woman of your dreams and living happily ever after. Going on a SAC might prevent you getting run down by an idiot driver on your usual cycle commute to work.

ffoverload - Member

The point of these courses is to point out and/or remind people that just a few mph over the limit in pedestrain/urban areas makes a HUGE difference to the injuries sustained in the event of an accident and also increases the likelihood of it happening

If that's the case, I shouldn't be going on the course.
I was caught in an rural area where I hardly see any pedestrians.
The road I was speeding on is the A591 travelling west to the Lake district past the village of Ings. It's a large open road and where 40mph does feel slow.
That's no excuse mind, I travel to the lakes a lot and was aware of the speed limit in this area but for some unknown reason, I was caught out on this particular day, maybe it was because I was eager to get riding as my time was limited.

I'm hoping this course can explain why, since a 20mph speed limit was enforced on the busy road on which I live, that sees the pedestrian traffic of four different schools, has there never been a speed camera to catch out some of the drivers that fly down the street at twice that speed. Even the sign that lit up with either a smiley or sad face, depending on your speed was taken down after only a couple of months
I think I will be disappointed though, as someone has already pointed out on this thread, there's no room for discussion. So I might as well do my 'whinging' on here. 🙂 🙁

They don't enforce 20mph limits. Worth complaining to your local police if you think people are well over 30 though.

The Ings one covers a large open road going through a village with a few busy junctions, hotel and petrol station. You do get pedestrians, farm traffic and bikes crossing at that point. The limit is correct there, but as you say, it doesn't feel it because of the road architecture.

There are so many people blatting up that road into the Lakes that consideration should be given to changing the layout to actively slow folk down. Personally I'd stick a 50 in force at Staveley to start the process. I'd hazard a guess that that camera makes a lot of money.

If that's the case, I shouldn't be going on the course.
I was caught in an rural area where I hardly see any pedestrians.

You didn't see the thing that caught you so I wouldn't be trusting your observational powers...

@vermillon

I think they identify high risk areas and warn a few people and then let them share their experiences,

I do not know the area so am just guessing here, but you pinpoint a rural road near village, low sensation of speed/limit feels slow , unlikely driver anticipation of pedestrian/farm or cycle traffic, no pavement perhaps? , sounds like a fairly good place to setup some monitoring.

If you are concerned about the traffic down your road, and it sounds like you have every reason to be, why not try to voice it to somebody that can take enforment forward? Maybe the local schools?

Sounds like the spot has been identified already with the placement of a smiley face sign, (very fair really to give the regular drivers there a 'heads up' IMO) they are probably gathering data and that usually precedes a period of enforcement if deemed reasonable....

ignore the limit at your peril, big brother is watching and will only have more eyes in the future.

yes, it sucks to get caught, but you can try to see it as a possible positive that something is being done 🙂

They don't enforce 20mph limits.

That's not quite true I don't think; rather, it's expected that the councils will 'self-police' 20mph zones with traffic calming measures and it's down to the local police as to if and how they additionally enforce it. Some do, some don't AFAIK.

statistics show that the number of serious injuries have reduced quite significantly since the introduction of this scheme, this is much more useful than giving people points or fines and is also cheaper thant cleaning up the cost of accidents. a sensible use of revenue.

I don't know if there are any stats that show:
- people who attend a SAC are less likely to get caught speeding than (a) those who didn't get caught (b) those who were over the SAC threshold / choose to take the fine?
- people who attend a SAC are less likely to have an accident

Theoretically those things should be quite easy to measure. There is a nice "control study" running north of the border where SACs are not used which would show how the other factors affecting driving impact these things anyway.

I've booked on a course - not a speeding awareness (I was doing 20mph), but a "What's Driving Us?" course. I've got to learn to be a more considerate driver (I'm one of the few round here who knows how to indicate!).

I was caught on a tricky junction, where you can't see what lane you're supposed to be in because it's only marked by arrows painted on the road - you know, where the cars are. Confusing, so rather than make it better, put a camera on the lights and you can catch more people. Nice one.
Luckily the course is only 3 hours.

@ poly

no, sorry I do not, they were just figures given at a SAC I attended. 😳
But I think improved response times and medical care has made a significant
difference to survival figures in accidents.

I doubt they would expand the trials to other areas if they were proved to have no effect so far.

One thing to bear in mind is just one vehicle observing the limit pretty much enforces the limit for the following ones. A little can go a long way in this instance.

I was caught on a tricky junction, where you can't see what lane you're supposed to be in because it's only marked by arrows painted on the road

Of course - I could've stopped and waited until I knew exactly which lane to be in, but you don't tend to do that in traffic, do you.

Sorry DezB just a bit of course related flippantcy .

Yeah, I can see a lot of that coming. Just gonna keep my gob shut!