Lease car is going back in Feb so I've got 6 weeks to sort a new car and I'm struggling a bit.
We've had a diesel Kuga for 3 years and done just under 30k miles, mostly local trips, with occasional further trips for holidays and canoe races.
With how the economy has gone and we'll be getting hit with a mortgage rate increase in 2 years we've set a hard limit of £15k budget to buy something we can keep until it all blows over.
I'm not sure diesel is right for us, too many short journeys and although we've not had any issues as such, the DPF filter warning comes on too frequently for my liking. Also I work in Birmingham so if we do go Diesel it would be better if it was Euro6 so I can drive in if required without shelling out, seems likely that anti diesel sentiment will continue for private cars anyway.
Petrol economy is a concern though so it's not a clear cut choice
I'm also tempted by some of the cheaper EVs that are available now
Mrs P has back issues so has to have a raised seating position so will have to be SUV/Crossover or MPV sadly and her back issues have spread to her knees so we're going auto finally! Also no leather - wife and kids don't like it, I'm agnostic.
Needs to be family sized, but necessarily as big as the Kuga
Shortlist has (amongst many others)
Ford C Max - petrol or diesel
2 series Active tourer - petrol, diesel or plug in hybrid
Pug e2008 - electric looks decent 200mile range (150 in the real world)
MG ZS - looks ok to me, a bit cheap but is cheap so that's fine, only going to get 130ish miles of range out of one though.
TBH I really fancy an electric car, but would a 150ish mile range work? I'm sure 95% of the time it would, furthest races are about 150 mile round trip so would only need a quick charge somewhere with the 2008 but for those that have got EVs how do UK holidays work? Or will I save so much in fuel costs we can just go abroad?
The other option is getting a shitbox for about £5000 and hope everything looks better in 3 years. But after 3 years in a new car with new car comforts I don't really like that idea.
Any input welcomed. Ta.
Kids / canoes / upright seating?
Berlingo!
There's a few K9/Mk3 Citroen Berlingo / Peugeot Rifters now starting to creep towards and under the £15k mark.
1.2 petrol.
Sorry! Ignore - I've just seen the automatic requirements.
Is it a PCP deal or a lease car?
The PCP on our Kuga came to an end in Sept - and with car prices and interest rates as they are the sensible option for us was just just pay the balloon and keep the car.
We'll keep it another 18 months and see where the market is then.
It's a lease - also its manual so it's going to have to go anyway. Looking at the market prices for 21 plate Kugas I doubt we'd have been able to afford the balloon payment, it was a very good lease deal.
I love, love, love my Pug e208, but that's as a second car. In the real world (at this time of year anyway), even 150 miles would be optimistic, I'd say it's more like 120-140 (eg. 46.3 kHh actual battery at 3.3 m/kWh = 132 miles range - and that's to complete 0%, which your stress levels won't thank you for).
Again, personal opinions but I'd avoid diesel (joyless, DPF/ERG/DMF stress) and hybrid (complexity = possible big bills).
In your shoes I'd probably be looking at Skoda 1.5l petrol SUVs (Kamiq/Karoq/Kodiaq?), plus maybe Yeti?
Touran/Sharan with a DSG box.
Will you be able to charge an ev at home? (basically, do you have your own driveway), that has a big impact on cost and convenience.
Good point, yes have got a drive, would get a box installed if we went EV, no garage.
rough rule of thumb on 10k miles per year will be 2700kw, so Intelligent octopus (7.5p/kwh) will cost £203 per year in electric. octopus go (9p/kwh) will cost £243 per year. However, your day rate will go up so you'll need to do some maths on whats best based on your house electric usage. certainly with octopus go, if you can shift washer, dryer, dishwasher, dehumidifier etc etc use to nighttime then that will be at the ev charging rate so makes a big difference. You'll need a smart meter and for intelligent octopus an ohme charger or a car that works with IO
Kia Sportage or Hyundai Tucson.
Good size, loads around, long warranty and lots of toys for the money.
Purely from a carbon footprint point of view, with that level of mileage, the carbon footprint of an electric car is much, much higher than an ICE. So it would be an ICE for me in your position,
Except any EV you buy secondhand will have already nearly 'broken even' on it's embodied carbon from production. Depending on the carbon intensity of its factory, and the factories making the bits that go into it, and the origin of it's power for fuel you are looking at 20-40k miles.
For ease of driving with mobility issues, being able to charge at home and doing lots of short drives, NOT getting an EV seems mental.
Hop on auto trader and have a look at all the ex-lease 64kwh Kia/Hyundai, go and test drive a few and see what works size wise.
15k will get you a Kona, Niro or Soul. Niro is biggest, so might be the best bet. Will still have 5yrs+ left on both battery and car warranty. Will get you 220 miles in winter (easily) and 250-270 or more in summer. Ours is a first edition Soul so gets a heat pump for the climate which helps eeek out the miles in winter. The others may or may not, but I wouldn't dwell on it especially if you aren't regularly pushing the range.
Just go test drive some and see what the dealers have to say. Advertised at 15-17k so perhaps a bit of scope to discount as well. They were very popular for fleets three years ago (when we got ours) and so there are a lot about which helps keep the price down.
Nothing has launched since then that I would rather have. Had it in for a stuck charge flap under warranty, and just approaching new front tyres and discs after that three years.
Our 16 grand cmax diesel is the finest car ever made. £35 road tax is nice too.
Petrol economy is a concern though so it’s not a clear cut choice
My Leon Estate 1.4tsi Automatic does more mpg in urban places than the V70 and Galaxy and Touran diesels before it. Longer journeys we are maybe 2mpg less. Plus cheaper servicing. Cheaper fuel.
I'll sell you a 2017 Leon FR 1.4tsi DSG estate with 93k on the clock, new brakes, timing belt done two years ago, full service history, £35 VED, 50mpg on a run, 44 around town, etc for under £9k at the moment. We really want to keep it, but the camper means we have to sell...
https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/seat-leon-14tsi-fr-dsg-automatic-estate/1468768849
I love Fords but when the dealers tell you to not buy an automatic...
I'm about to ditch my SMax. Love it but I need an auto for knee comfort with the type of driving I'm increasingly doing around work. I'd have another SMax in a heartbeat except my understanding was that the PowerShift units are expensive on maintenance and they often get neglected on second hand cars and near to end of lease cars as a result. It's a shame as it's got a lovely high driving position and is super comfy.
Petrol vs. Diesel at 10,000 miles a year and not hitting long distance regularly is petrol all the way for me. Don't know about Birmingham but in London and Bristol I believe Euro 4+ petrol is ok. So that means you can go older and open up other options.
For context I do about 10-15,000 miles a year depending on work and extended travel. I'm on my second dpf equipped car over nearly 8 years. I've yet to see the DPF light. My 20 mile commute plus regular longer trips sees to that.
As well as large estates I've been looking at suv and crossovers (but with limited enthusiasm).
For SUVs diesel is still king in terms of availability presumably because of the barn door aerodynamics and weight making petrol less attractive. The Discovery Sport, Freelander 2 and various BMW X models are in your price range ... there's a few older X3s about with the 3.0 straight 6 petrol near me (Hampshire). Maybe also Mercedes GLC? Jaguar F-pace might be another premium crossover.
The way I'm looking at this is the premium brands are generally ahead on autos as it has been more of their sales for longer. They also tend to offer some extra performance which works well with an auto and towing (one of my needs). That means an age/mileage sacrifice but potentially a better overall ownership experience.
You'd probably find some DSG petrol Tiguans in budget (or Skoda / SEAT equivalent).
No experience of french autos (e.g. Peugeot and Citroen).
If estates are any good look out my thread.
One more from me..
A 150 mile range EV won't do 150 miles loaded to the gills with kayaks on top.
As for holidays we concluded there's no EV out there yet that can serve our "week in the hills" holiday pattern. Too many of the places we go are charger deserts and between managing two energetic children, a dog that hates car travel and a limited number of days off a year I'm loathe to add long stops and hunt the available fast charger to lengthy school holiday journey times / have to make extra trips to find decent charging. I might tolerate that if it weren't for the fact that finding the kind of EV that would cope with a basic weekend away at my parents (also charger desert residents) was going to cost about £600 a month to lease.
All that said I'd love an EV but function and convenience vs. Cost the balance is still all wrong for me.
Get a 250 mile EV then 🙂
Get a 250 mile EV then 🙂
I'm thinking about the OP and his budget and his kayaks that are presumably going to hammer the WLTP figure.
Not wanting to go off topic but for us even a WLTP 250 miler is pushing it in real world (draggy exterior loads). I have been looking regularly but it is way too much of a compromise for our main car.
Our second car would, however, be a perfect candidate for a smaller EV like a Niro but it doesn't do enough annual miles (we do about 5k/year in that) to warrant the capital outlay while it's running perfectly and costs peanuts on maintenance and insurance.
Kia Sportage or Hyundai Tucson.
I've tried to write this 3 times over the course of the day, but we have a '23 self charging hybrid Sportage as the family vehicle. Its very good, I averaged 57mpg on a 6 mile stop start trip today, and it averages about 50mpg on the motorway. As Lunge says, its got a gazillion toys & radars etc and is a very roomy and comfortable car to drive.
The only problem I have with it is a positive one, I find it very difficult to drive without playing the "make the EV light come on" game.
We've had many weeks at holiday cottages in Scotland and lakes doing hill walking etc, never had a problem charging our EVs. We generally just make sure we book somewhere with parking and come to an arrangement with the cottage owner. Fully fueled car every morning
smaller EV like a Niro
Is a niro small?
😁😁
I would say, we do plenty of mountain biking all over Scotland in our EVs. You might be surprised how much time you spend parked next to chargers. We don't have a feel for how strapping stuff to the roof hammers the range, but we do have an ID Buzz as a van, which is shaped like a brick and still gets 3-4m/kWh. Our watersports are all inflatable so easy to pack away with the bikes.
For £15k I'd get an Ioniq EV. The range is a good 170 -180 miles, with nothing on the roof. It's probably the most efficient car in existence right now.
Just remember you don't have to be empty to charge, nor do you have to fill up all the way. So if you know you're doing 150 miles and want some security you can stop at any point in the journey for a 10 min top up. Usually when you know you are passing a convenient charger.
Think about it this way - would you like petrol to be 15p a litre?
Thanks all, I'm really tempted to go EV, it's just that leap into the unknown really making me nervous, certainly on any day where we're not on holiday or racing an EV makes total sense for us, really the ideal would me an EV and a van for racing, but the budget isn't there.
Not sure the ioniq would work, looks a bit low, Niro would be ideal, but a bit too expensive at the moment, fingers crossed some more come off lease in the new year, but would need to be quick, have to get something sorted by Feb
Brand new ID Buzz can be had for just a little over £300 a month right now on a lease deal. Cheap as chips.
alex22
Free MemberBrand new ID Buzz can be had for just a little over £300 a month right now on a lease deal. Cheap as chips.
Link?
Brand new ID Buzz can be had for just a little over £300 a month right now on a lease deal. Cheap as chips.
£4k down, £8k of lease payments for 16k of miles in 2 years = £0.75 per mile, before insurance, maintenance and 'fuel'.
That doesn't seem cheap to me.
calling it £300 when its:
£4k down, £8k of lease payments
33% downpayment is misrepresenting it a bit.
More importantly, why is it significantly cheaper for a shorter lease?
33% downpayment is misrepresenting it a bit.
Indeed - over £500 amortised for 8k miles a year is better.
Purely from a carbon footprint point of view, with that level of mileage, the carbon footprint of an electric car is much, much higher than an ICE. So it would be an ICE for me in your position,
Fake news
After three years the EV will have a lower carbon footprint at that annual mileage.
Not sure the ioniq would work, looks a bit low,
It's a normal car but I didn't read the part about back.problems so yeah. There's a Kona which is taller. It was available in both a short and long range version.
There is certainly a transition period/stuff to learn and get used to, but if my mum at 73 can do it and now happily hammers up and down Edinburgh to Oxford/Stratford multiple times a year in a 200 mile max Mégane, you will be grand.
And yes there have been some very cheap Buzz leases around, I think there are some places with excess stock of passenger version. I have seen cheaper than that on the Buzz FB group with low down payments. Could be a good way of testing it, 2yr lease on a Buzz and see how you get on.
Although likewise, buying a 15k Niro and you don't like it, sell it in 6 months for 14k? You won't have put a lot of miles on it, Ans it shouldn't loose too much value.
We have the Buzz cargo and really rate it very highly.
The Buzz prices are probably low because they expect residuals to be good.
Lease prices are weird. I want an Ioniq 6, but it's about £600 to lease. Another option, the Nissan Ariya which is similarly priced new can be had for around £400.
@prawny I recommend you test drive something electric. They're great.
I would suggest what I have - Toyota Corolla Touring sports. Well made, comfy and very economical. I average 50-60 mpg out of mines in winter and can touch 70 in the summer. Has tons of space and hybrid system means you get best of both worlds and don't have to worry about range.
Plus Toyota give you a ten year warranty (3 years, but after that they give you an extra years warranty every time you get it serviced by them) which makes it a no brainer for a second hand purchase along with their reputation for reliability.
If your missus absolutely needs an SUV, go for a RAV4.
Update -
Went to a car supermarket over the weekend (after settling on a Tiguan based on specs and online listings then discovering that all of the ones locally have aged terribly so they're out) and took the kids to try loads of options for size.
Wife and kids have decided no leather, too cold and shiny - I'm not particularly bothered but I've been outvoted so Niro is out, 2 spec one is rare and a bit sparse.
Kona too small
Fords - gearboxes are indeed a gamble I'm not willing to take.
So I think we're down to a shortlist of 2.
MG ZS EV - can shift the budget based on reduced future bills to get a long range one for £17kish
Kia Sportage - kids favourite, because it's got heated rear seats.
Really tempted by going electric, but still mildly panicked at the idea. Anyone owned or driven a new MG EV?
I think you're right in the notion that a 150mile EV will suit 95% of your needs...
I'm actually thinking of selling my Nissan Leaf (for 10.5k) soon, as I fancy a longer range EV..
I love it, and have upgraded the wheels (pimp white!) and fitted crossclimates all round.. Adaptive CC etc.. Lovely to drive, but I've been told to get rid of my Octavia, so will need a longer range EV!
DrP
We have had an MG4 since May last year. We really like it. Sure it's not the most 'premium' materials inside and the lane assist is annoying, but otherwise it's been great. Fun to drive, gets close to WLTP mileage, no issues at all. Software is a bit creaky but has improved with updates.
No heated seats (we have the base one) is really the only extra we're missing. Carplay is way better/reliable than in my Skoda.
Skoda finishes 4 year lease in Sept. Considering a MG ZS EV as well. Just not sure we want two electric cars.
10k pa is less than 200 miles per week - why wouldn't a range of 150 miles work (for the vast majority of your journeys)?
Purely from a carbon footprint point of view, with that level of mileage, the carbon footprint of an electric car is much, much higher than an ICE. So it would be an ICE for me in your position,
Based on any facts?
If you care about alleged poor worker practices by Geely Autos best not buy any MG, Volvo or Polestar cars.
After three years the EV will have a lower carbon footprint at that annual mileage
have you a link to this and if it holds true when you factor in manufacturing and battery decommissioning and life expectancy of an EV. I would be interested to read it as I haven’t found one from a credible source
Lease prices are weird. I want an Ioniq 6, but it’s about £600 to lease. Another option, the Nissan Ariya which is similarly priced new can be had for around £400.
I know the world changes and all that, but the prices people are prepared to pay for cars these days is nuts.
Just before lock down £600 would get you in a new Porsche 911. £400 would get a very very nice premium BMW / Audi / Merc
I just cant bring myself to pay this type of money for shit box cars. Neither have I had the salary increase for it either !
Hybrid then you can be hated by everyone! 🙂
Some really good views from people with different needs, experiences and tollerances - make the decision based on what you feel is right for you.
If you were looking at the Tiguan it might be worth looking at Skoda Karoq or Seat Ateca (what I have) as they are basically the same car but cheaper.
£400 would get a very very nice premium BMW / Audi / Merc
I just cant bring myself to pay this type of money for shit box cars.
Having had a good look round an Ioniq 6 and an Ariya, they are absolutely not shitboxes in any way. And they are a damn sight cheaper than the premium manufacturer's EV offerings.
