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as a parent that would be enough concern to me that I would want to do something about it to show them they have my support and backing
Exactly. So why do you need to ask Singletrackworld how to show your children they have your backing and support?
Kids in shops always reminds me of this film – from 22:37 but the whole thing is good if you have time for it
Actually that seems a lot like a STW thread. Lots of shouting, distraction and a sprinkling of politics!
Go down to the shop without your kids and get right in the face of this sack of shit and find out if he still thinks he’s a **** hard case when he’s faced with a grown man and not a 7 and 9 year old.
Alternatively make sure to educate the children properly so they appreciate attention to detail is such circumstances- like the difference between years 7 and 9 and being 7 and 9 years old.
I'd first establish whether with the shopkeeper (I'd go down there and ask) if your kids actually had anything nicked on them. If not, and there's no cctv of them pocketing stuff, then I'd be telling the shopekeeper that you're reporting them to the Police for falsely accusing and threatening kids.
Keep it all calm and none of this macho nonsense. Kids obviously can't go in there any more whatever happens.
I'd phone the school to give them a heads up.
They'll have a community Police Officer attached - make it their problem.
Every shop local to our high school does one in, one out and that's what the police will tell this shop to do.
Any persons child can do wrong. Do you know Saxonriders children personally to give an informed opinion?
I don't need to, I'll take Saxonrider's word for it, he's one of the STWers you can take at his word.
Rather than worrying about the unproven and unlikely case of shoplifting consider the legality of extracting a minor's name from them under duress.
In fact, my boys would never in the lives even think of the possibility of taking something that wasn’t theirs
I'm not a parent but I do see bad parents who genuinely believe their badly behaved kids are saints.
Even 'good' kids can be bad sometimes.
Make a counter claim against the shop owner of touching their front bottom and bribe them into free sweets for life.
I doubt the shop will actually bother calling the school and if they did what exactly is the school going to say? If it happened outside of the school gates they will most likely not care as it is not their problem.
If the boys haven't done anything I would tell them to forget about it and just go to a different shop for a couple of weeks until it all blows over.
The shop were most likely just fed up with kids coming in and stealing or causing issues and unfortunately took their frustration out on the first two who didn't run off or back chat, not fair to your boys but just bad luck.
Edukator
Free Member
Any persons child can do wrong. Do you know Saxonriders children personally to give an informed opinion?I don’t need to, I’ll take Saxonrider’s word for it, he’s one of the STWers you can take at his word.
Have you met Saxonrider personally to give an informed opinion on his word?
... rather than what you have just read on an internet site.
ps. that is meant as no slight against Saxonrider who I have not personally met either to give an informed opinion on his word or not.
like the difference between years 7 and 9 and being 7 and 9 years old.
To be fair, I did say ignore me.
Anyway, WTF is Year 7 and 9. Is that Primary 7 and 2nd year (if you're Scottish)? So an 11 year old and a 13 year old?
Actually, shopkeeper is still a ****. **** 'em. I guess it isn't as bad to try to intimidate 11 and 13 year olds but it's still a total **** move.
If they're having problems the solution is still to just have 2 or 3 schoolkids in at a time. Like every other shop near a school in the country.
Unuales, you're a troll who rejoined a month or so ago after a ban until proven otherwise.
Think about that.
Saxonrider on the other hand has started 1600 topics since the great hack. We've followed him through highs and lows and there's a consitent theme - honesty, integrity and saying things the way they are.
Think about that too.
that is meant as no slight against Saxonride
I'm not racist but... .
*Raises hand also*
Straight 'A' student, prefect, teacher's pet and raises hand also.
Although in my case a friend worked there (Tandy) and would tell us when no one was looking and we'd just walk out with whatever we fancied. Still shoplifting though. Kids do stupid things sometimes.
Although, that's not to say the OP's kids did.
I'm not saying your kids are thieving arseholes.
All I'm saying is that I was a thieving arsehole when I was a kid.
But I'm not saying your kids are thieving arseholes.
I think maybe people who were thieving arseholes when they were kids should just stay out of this thread. We get it, you stole stuff (ooh, you edge-lords, you).
Believe it or not, the vast majority of kids never steal anything and kids should always be given the benefit of the doubt if there is no actual evidence. False accusations, especially if they aren't believed, can really damage a kid's confidence for years afterwards.
Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.
Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.
This. Life’s too short.
the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway,
They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons' school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn't, or they used to, maybe they've cleaned up their act with the regs.
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/schools/pupils-info/
I’d first establish whether with the shopkeeper (I’d go down there and ask) if your kids actually had anything nicked on them. If not, and there’s no cctv of them pocketing stuff, then I’d be telling the shopekeeper that you’re reporting them to the Police for falsely accusing and threatening kids.
Pointless escalation, unless the CCTV shows them at all times in shot clearly not lifting anything then it can be argued both ways. Shop CCTV is primarily to discourage scrotes from threatening staff and raiding the till not stealing a mars bar because the police aren't interested anymore in low level shoplifting.
I doubt the shop will actually bother calling the school and if they did what exactly is the school going to say? If it happened outside of the school gates they will most likely not care as it is not their problem.
If the boys haven’t done anything I would tell them to forget about it and just go to a different shop for a couple of weeks until it all blows over.
The shop were most likely just fed up with kids coming in and stealing or causing issues and unfortunately took their frustration out on the first two who didn’t run off or back chat, not fair to your boys but just bad luck.
Far more realistic
If the school make something of it just talk to them. If it's out of character they'll get the benefit of the doubt and it will blow over.
Have a chat with the boys about avoiding similar circumstances and not hanging round when others causing issues.
Easy answer, completely ignore it, doubt the shop will phone the school, even if they did, the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway, just tell the kids to relax and just avoid that shop.
I am inclined to go with this, unless Saxonrider can think of something specific he wants to achieve.
In the unlikely event the school get involved the OP can just explain how the misunderstanding occured. If that explanation doesn't satisfy the school for some reason then the ball is in their court, and a plan of action can be formulated at that point.
I'd explain to the kids that mistakes can happen, and that if they have done nothing wrong there is nothing to be worried about, great life lesson, and if the kids still look worried after that, and the shop has cctv evidence they got a really valuable learning experience coming.
I know your a fool
People around these parts know better, unuales. I'm really not accusing you of racism, have another look. You can't throw doubt at Saxonriders account of events without implying he's a liar. Just as you can't start a sentence with "I'm not racist but..." without folowing it up with something racist thus demonstrating yourself to be racist. It's an analogy with how you are calling Saxonrider a liar but claiming it's not a slight.
It's "you're" a fool by the way.
You can't throw doubt at Saxonriders account of events without implying he's a liar. Thousands of posts here say he's not.
So I don't think you're racist, but you're a troll until you prove otherwise. Start now.
Anyway, WTF is Year 7 and 9. Is that Primary 7 and 2nd year (if you’re Scottish)? So an 11 year old and a 13 year old?
Age started plus year of attendance.
It's the American system, now we are all living in Amerika.
Edukator
Free Member
the school will just do absolutely nothing anyway,They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons’ school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn’t, or they used to, maybe they’ve cleaned up their act with the regs.
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/schools/pupils-info/
/blockquote>Without any proof, nothing happened other than some kids made a false accusation and no 'shoplifting' occurred, i doubt any school employee would do anything, if they did i would more expect the school to be more concerned about the pupils wellbeing and why this shop had their information and were making accusation to the school!
As before, do nothing, make a joke about it, laugh about it, lighten the mood for your kids to show them the absolute lack of seriousness about this whole situation.
I would probably pop in, alone, without the boys and have a very calm chat with the shopkeeper.
Explain that if he has evidence that they have done this then I would like to see it and that if he can show it to me I will be down on them like a ton of bricks and they will be grounded for a year and then drag them back to grovel in front of him.
Also explain that if no such evidence can be produced then any such accusations should be dropped immediately. Not sure what I would do if he persists with an accusation once I know it to be false but hopefully if a calm and civil conversation has taken place he will see it the same way and drop it.
.
As a few people have said every parent tends to assume the best of their children regardless, which true. Chances are the OP is right and they didn't do anything but there is a slim chance they may have done, verify this as above and then decide what to do.
I wouldn't be impressed if I'd been falsly accused, threatened, intimidated and been coerced into giving my name which would be passed onto my school and then my father laughed about it, Argee.
I would want assurance that the school was on my side and not under the impression I was a shop lifter. I'd want my parents to look after me and my interests.
It seems to me that the purpose of strating this thread was to get feedback about the best way to go about it. We have three camps:
1/ don't worry about it (not possible, they're all worrying hence the thread)
2/ be proactive about clearing the kids' names and making sure they're not recorded as shop lifters by the school
3/ 2 plus give the shop keeper reason to regret his bullying ways.
Plenty for the OP to read now.
Plenty of shops around (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong), ignore the shop and tell your boys not to go back. There's only an issue "if" the shop grass to the school, which on balance is unlikely. If they had evidence why not threaten to go straight to the police? More than likely an empty threat to try and scare your lads. If they do call the school and they engage you, then calmly state you trust your kids version of events until any evidence proves otherwise.
Life lesson for the boys: walk away from trouble and don't give out your personal details to anybody you don't know (and if there are two of you, one keeps lookout! 😀)
I’ve changed my mind on my earlier sensible approach. Either:
1: Go to the shop every day for the rest of your life and nick one item each time as a form of petty revenge.
2: Purchase a lighter from the shopkeeper and then set fire to the crisps section and scream “**** you lying scum” before running away.
3: Like option one, visit the shop each day, steal one item but replace it with a frozen sausage each time.
4: Hide a dead fish in the shop somewhere.
5: Bum his dog. Does he have a dog? If not you might have to play the long game by befriending him, convincing him he really needs a dog in his life and then bumming it
1/ don’t worry about it (not possible, they’re all worrying hence the thread)
But reassured it's a storm in a teacup, escalation will get the accusations broadcast far and wide rather than forgotten about the following day when some other kids try it on
2/ be proactive about clearing the kids’ names and making sure they’re not recorded as shop lifters by the school
At this point it's a safe assumption the school doesn't know about the incident. Escalation is likely to make sure they know.
3/ 2 plus give the shop keeper reason to regret his bullying ways.
The USDAW rep might have something to say about abusing shop workers
What on earth are some of you on about? Freedom of information request? CCTV? Confront the shop keeper? "recorded as shoplifters by the school"? Good grief.
There is a small chance he might call the school. Even if he does, the school will respond in a proportionate way. If this shopkeeper is inclined to call the school - I expect he would have done so on previous occasions, so the school will be even less likely to over-react. If you really wanted to, you could have a pre-emptive chat with their head of year - more to inform them about what had happened and let them know that the kids were (very) upset about it. As others have said, if they know the kids they will realize that this is nothing anyway.
There is no risk that the police will be involved to any meaningful degree.
The only circumstances in which I would go to the shop and talk to the owner was if I was concerned whether my kids were actually as innocent as they were claiming, ie: to actually ask the shopkeeper what happened for my own benefit, rather than some desire to confront. However - if they had tried to pinch something, I doubt that they would even have told you about this whole incident.
Personally, I'd be more focused on talking to your kids about what happened - about fairness etc. Maybe about recognizing and removing themselves from situations like that.
There is a small chance he might call the school.
This.
I'm sure my teenage shoplifting would have been nipped in the bud if a shopkeeper had called up. For the record we always knew the names of kids from other schools and removed our school ties before going in shops.
Even the Police didn't follow up. We were once stopped for throwing old potatoes at a wall (potatoes given to us by one of our parents!) Copper went off his nut and took all our details and promised there would be a letter. There wasn't.
I did discover my then ~5 year old stole a sweet once (maybe it's genetic?) and his harrowing experience of me driving him back to the shop to and returning the goods was probably enough to save him from a stretch (tears all around including half the shop!)
Other that saxonrider's good character and him vouching for his kids in an incident that he wasn't at, what evidence do we have for going all Harry Brown on some shopkeeper who's probably being robbed every single day by kids and adults, trying to make ends meet, and has been told by others that they were involved.
Sure in an innocent until proven guilty world there'd be no accusation without the CCTV or whatever, but that would be my explanation to the kids - and to cut him a bit of slack as well. At 12 and 14 they're old enough to understand the other side and why the reaction was what it was. And as others have said, I doubt very much that school will be informed.
If you want to make a deal of it, innocent until guilty cuts both ways and the shopkeeper also has to be believed until he's shown not to be. He was given info by people there at the time, after all.
My kids have never shoplifted - to my knowledge - but when there were some cases of group bullying at school, I told them that I believed that they weren't involved....but only until / if I found out they were. Maybe ask your kids if they want you to go down there and ask to see the CCTV.....is there a small chance they might not want to take it further? My wife works at a school and IHHO 98% of year 9's are little bastards one way or another.
FWIW not accusing Saxonrider of lying. Just saying that no-one apart from the kids and maybe the shopkeeper if he's studied the CCTV actually knows. There's a difference.
They might write it down though, Saxonrider, do a freedom of information request on your sons’ school records in a month or so. Schools keep records of stuff they really shouldn’t, or they used to, maybe they’ve cleaned up their act with the regs.
I think you'll find that this is not the case. Schools are very careful about what data they record and have specific systems to record appropriate data. They are required to have a DPO and all staff receive regular GDPR training. It's highly unlikely that an accusation of shoplifting by a third party, with no evidence, will be "recorded" anywhere. You also can't request personal information relating to someone else who is 12 and over regardless of whether you are the parent or not.
The likely scenario is this:
Shopkeeper contacts main reception via email or telephone.
Person receiving the call/email looks up who the HOY is for the respective children.
HOY is notified.
HOY/Pastoral team might contact the shop to see if there is any evidence. Based on the answer to this the HOY may or may not decide to contact parents (as the incident occurred outside school) and this will only be to ensure the wellbeing of the students, notify of police involvement if there is evidence and address any safeguarding concerns about the shopkeeper's behaviour (if there are any). Without any evidence though there will be no need for any further "action". The only record of this will be the email sent to HOY/Pastoral team which is unlikely to be included in any SAR because schools tend to use initials in emails when referring to students and staff in case the screen is viewed inadvertently eg shown to a class by accident on the whiteboard/projector (yes it does happen 🙄) or a student happens to be near the teacher's desk etc. They are all pretty careful about data in general.
Tutors might be advised to remind students of the need to behave appropriately at all times and in particular when in uniform or something along those lines.
Unless there are any other safeguarding issues surrounding these students it is unlikely that this will be recorded in any child protection systems they may have. It will only be recorded if the information is likely to be useful to external agencies involved with any ongoing concerns and only if there is evidence to support the accusation or the police are involved.
There is also the issue that the shopkeeper has potentially recorded personal details in contravention of GDPR, and you could request that these are destroyed/notify the police or ICO. Might be worth calling the ICO to ask what the precedent is here as I am unsure.
do a freedom of information request
SAR, not FoI
If you really wanted to, you could have a pre-emptive chat with their head of year – more to inform them about what had happened and let them know that the kids were (very) upset about it.
This, this, this. Or better yet, whoever has the happy task of pastoral care for their year groups.
SAR, not FoI
Semi Automatic Rifle? This is the kind of STW response we want. 🙂
Straight ‘A’ student, prefect, teacher’s pet and raises hand also.
Just like my nephew who got banned from the local shop, backfired when his mum asked him to pop out to get some groceries, so he had to leg it to the next nearest shop - all unravelled when he returned having taken twice as long as it should & out of breath. Marched him down to the local shop to apologise & shop keeper couldn't even remember banning him let alone what he'd banned him for 🤣
Yes, m'lud, I can confirm that the accuseds' father on the other hand has started 1600 topics since the great hack proving beyond all possible doubt that his kids did not shoplift that store
Right, yep, that'll work.🙄
You lot who are advocating going nuclear on the shopkeeper and refusing to listen to any evidence/ dissenting/ questioning people sound just like the sort of scum who would shoplift and then get their parents to blindly stand up for them come what may.
Just for the hard of understanding, I'm not saying you are the sort of people, I'm saying you sound like the sort of person. And that's what you need to get away from in order to convince the shop keeper and police, who have no knowledge at all of SaxonRider's STW posting history kids.
I am completely sure SR's kids didn't rob that shop. But what he needs to do here is go about things in a rational, mature, open, level headed way to prove that they didn't. Not run around like some knuckleheaded entitled ¥£₩÷×
Basically Andrew nailed it here:
I would probably pop in, alone, without the boys and have a very calm chat with the shopkeeper.
Explain that if he has evidence that they have done this then I would like to see it and that if he can show it to me I will be down on them like a ton of bricks and they will be grounded for a year and then drag them back to grovel in front of him.
Also explain that if no such evidence can be produced then any such accusations should be dropped immediately. Not sure what I would do if he persists with an accusation once I know it to be false but hopefully if a calm and civil conversation has taken place he will see it the same way and drop it.
.
First post guaranteed to get people going (retailer vs teens, "anyone touches my kids I swear I'll do time..."), OP hasn't reappeared and good for a few pages yet. I'm going to go straight 9/10.
I'd be in the shop and I'd make them wish they'd never been born.
I’d be in the shop and I’d make them wish they’d never been born.
The kids?
The shopkeeper?
The minimum wage person on the till that day?
Marched him down to the local shop to apologise & shop keeper couldn’t even remember banning him let alone what he’d banned him for 🤣
Most likely the shopkeeper doesn't even remember the incident, until nuclear dad starts threatening them, then everyone gets involved...
Whoever it was throwing accusations around and threatening to report my kids to the school on the word of another gang of kids. I couldn't care less how much that person earns and its irrelevant anyway. I didn't realise being on minimum wage makes it ok to threaten kids. If you don't think defending your kids on things like this is the right thing to do you shouldn't be a parent.
Yes…. Threatening people is bad.
Now read your last post.
Is this whole thread a metaphor for Israel and Palestine?
Whoever it was throwing accusations around and threatening to report my kids to the school on the word of another gang of kids.
Has it occurred to you that the shopkeeper just says this
More serious is threatening the shopkeeper who in all likelihood forgot about the incident three customers after they left
There won't be any action against the kids and the parent up before the magistrate will be a good life lesson
jhinwxm
Free MemberWhoever it was throwing accusations around and threatening to report my kids to the school on the word of another gang of kids. I couldn’t care less how much that person earns and its irrelevant anyway. I didn’t realise being on minimum wage makes it ok to threaten kids. If you don’t think defending your kids on things like this is the right thing to do you shouldn’t be a parent.
.... in the words of a 12 and 14 year old - such an age group has never exaggerated a situation, or tried to escape punishment, ever.
There's defending kids, then there's the sort of parent that goes marching about the place shouting at people at the drop of a hat - two very different things.