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When surely the answer would be to just work out how to use less energy, not find other ways to produce the same amount?
Yes - but people won't accept that. Improved energy efficiency can also be used to just get more without using less - refridgeration technology has improved, but fridges / freezers get more complex with more add-ons (eg American style) so they use the same energy as before.
Jevons Paradox can be drawn as a parallel to today - we use more energy, we develop more efficient appliances, so we get bigger and better appliances that give us more for the same energy rather than using less. It is the way of humans.
#waits for Stoner to realise that he's producing enough hot water for all his current domestic hot water needs and that everything apart from the circulator pump on the panel circuit can be switched off#
way ahead of me there edukator.
Turned the boiler off a few hours ago to see how long I could go on solar alone! My problem is trying to stop the boiler firing when tank temp is low but solar energy is charging or expected to charge within a few hours. So thought Id just pull the plug and see what happened of the next few days. 🙂
There always seems to be a pregnant woman hanging around
Stoner Jr Jr born in July last year... 2 months before we moved in.
fred, as the others have said, capital cost is not a bad proxy for embedded energy. Since my decision process is all financially led, rather than bunny hugging led, then if the payback is expected to be substantially below the usable life of the system (which it is for wood burner, wood/pellet boiler, solar panels but NOT rainwater harvesting) then by extension it's [i]usually[/i] the case that overall CO2 emissions will, for the same level of consumption, be lower over time even when taking into consideration embedded CO2.
As it happens mine is still a relative simple system. Its just pumps, pipes and tanks. My neighbours is very much more complicated with all sosrts of computer controlled manifolds. Its a wonder to behold, but I cant help but worry about the ongoing maintenance cost and reliance on engineers.
All of mine is easily serviceable and repairable by me. I can service my boiler in an hour. And there's only two or three parts that are likely to need replacing and they are not expensive and can be replaced by me in about 30mins.
There always seems to be a pregnant woman hanging aroundStoner Jr Jr born in July last year... 2 months before we moved in.
Ahh so perhaps there's a connection between house remodelling generally and pregnancy. I always assumed it was Kevin's influence.
My problem is trying to stop the boiler firing when tank temp is low but solar energy is charging
Maybe some sort of on/off switch on the boiler triggered by a little solar cell outside? If it's sunny then the boiler doesn't fire. I'm not sure how tuneable this would be.
I always assumed it was Kevin's influence.
I'll check with Mrs Stoner then 😉
I'm very impressed with everything you've done, also I'm forgiving you for calling me 'love'. which is better than the stuff I'm usually called.
We had to give up on the solar panel route, due to our roof being wide enough but not long enough, also the surveyor said there would be a low noise level during the day, as I work in the attic, I felt this would drive me up the wall even with heavy rock toons blaring out of the wireless.
Veggie plots look good too.
Thanks.
Ive heard of people hanging them on a vertical wall, rather than a roof BTW.
Eating courgettes & lettuce from those beds for lunch now 🙂
Sun's out now the rain's gone through and the panel is showing a stable 68degs with the bottom of the tank having been raised in temp from 40 to 52 so far today. I think I might go and have my first "free" shower 🙂
I'd written off the idea of solar hot water given the high costs of systems but I'm quite tempted by this low tech, low cost approach. I think I need a bigger hot water cylinder though!
Murray, seriously check out the ideas and products on here http://www.solarproject.co.uk/ to work out inexpensive/simple systems.
A single 47mm panel, some 12mm tubing, 12v pump and either a s/h hot water cyclinder or your existing one...bobs your uncle for less than £500.
You know, I'm inspired to do something myself. I have an outbuilding with a south facing roof, big enough for a single panel. It has a cavity at the back that currently houses the remains of a header tank that supplied a large garden pond, and it has mains. It's about 5 metres away from the house.
No-brainer?
You know, I'm inspired to do something myself.
Well I have no more pics or bits to add, so I think we need a new thread then woody!
Might be a little way down the list, after the extension and the veg patch, so come back this time next year maybe? 🙂
Thanks Stoner, have really enjoyed this thread and you have a lovely looking home
[url= http://www2.dupont.com/Photovoltaics/en_US/index.html ]PV made in Dumfries[/url]
[url= http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9008853&contentId=7016492 ]from this, glycol and a few other rare materials and costs a fortune in power to make!![/url]
thanks swampi. that's very kind.
Stoner
Any chance of an update?
How is it working in the height of summer? Are 3 panels enough? More than enough?
All the very best
David
Just re-read this thread and found it thoroughly interesting. Congratulations on your energy and vision Stoner, your installation makes my single panel look like a minnow in comparison.
For the record we still don't have a clear idea how much ours is saving us. The reason is that we have a gas Aga,which Mrs Gti is always reluctant to turn off for the summer. This summer having been cool it hasn't been turned off so the last gas bill was disappointingly high compared with the same period last year, when the Aga did get turned off. She has now agreed to turn it off for exactly the same number of days as last year (she records it!) so that we can make a fair comparison of our actual annual gas consumption.
After a relatively poor summer I'm beginning to realise that the debit from my 160 litre cylinder is high in comparison to the capacity of the panel; we have only had one boil at the end of April when it was very sunny. Anyway we are enjoying the smug glow of moral satisfaction that comes free with the system and a shower after an evening ride is that much more satisfying!
I have made some mods to the setup so will re-jig my Photobucket slide show and post the link on here soon for anybody interested in a less ambitious project than Stoner's!
This is great 😀
I was wondering and I haven't read all of the thread so maybe someone else has mentioned it already.
Could you place a reflective surface over from the collectors so that it catches the sun from a different angle, then channels it onto the thingamybobs ❓ and increases the effectiveness of the system.
Could you place a reflective surface over from the collectors so that it catches the sun from a different angle,
Not really - no. Given they are probably orientated due South, he is getting most of the available energy anyway. The minute differences he would get from anything else aren't worth the cost.
Solar tubes being cylinders will collect energy whatever the angle of the sun around their circumference although of course the efficiency diminishes as the sun's angle reduces from 90 degrees relative to their axis.
Update for Eyepic et al.
I turned the pellet boiler off on the 7th of July and had no other hot water heating source on other than the solar water system.
We have not run out of hot water since.
I check the thermal store temperatures everyday and they have not fallen below about 45degrees at the top of the tank. The tank doesnt stratify as well as Id hoped so it will often be 50 degrees at top and middle and maybe 40 at the bottom.
Because of this Im not sure how well the system will work in autumn when I turn the boiler back on as the hot water turbulence might raise the temp of the water at the bottom of the tank too high to be able to create sufficient differential at the manifold. Will have to experiment when I get there.
In the meantime the system is working a treat. Plenty of hot water - even at the end of and during 3 or 4 day overcast period. I think the only thing I might need to do is slow the CH pump/flow rate down as even on position one I think it's a bit too fast.
And there's nothing nicre than a long, hot, "free" shower 😉
+++
forgot to say some days we've had nearly half a ton of 75degree water in the tank! I think the highest solar only temp Ive seen on the tank (top thermometer) is about 80degrees. Bloody lovely.
Thanks for the feedback Stoner....
I am delighted that it seems to have been a success. I am most sorely tempted to go down a similar route (woodburner with back boiler plus solar).
Not sure what size heat store would be right (my place is a heck of a lot smaller than yours) but suspect 300l would be fine for me.
300l is probably fine.
the ones listed in here are a bit pricey I think for the size, especially once you add another solar coil to the boiler coil
http://www.cosi.co.uk/Woodstoveboilers.htm
Maybe you should have arranged the panels differently 🙂
http://www.amnh.org/nationalcenter/youngnaturalistawards/2011/aidan.html