Come now Alpin, how many penalties do you want? Two should have been enough. 😉
I want Southgate to stay, I think he is a great human being and this team is more than just a football team, they're a classy bunch of young men (and let's chuck Sarina Wiegman and her great team in too). Footballers don't generally make the news for good reasons, compared to the current news of corrupt parliamentarians, sexual predators and idiots that run the country this lot are several levels above.
Reality though - with that much talent in the side, some of which are coming to their best still, I reckon if he decided to go then the list of candidates that would be willing to take the role on would be a pretty good, and I suspect might bring a little bit more tactical awareness that might make the difference. Not saying Southgate is poor (and again in reality it'll be his coaching team as well as him).
But I'd like both to succeed, the team under Southgate as much as getting a trophy. I don't want to sacrifice what the team is just to go that bit further so if / when he does decide he's had enough then the next choice has to honour what they've become. A team to be proud of, win, lose or draw (and then lose, on penalties)
Bottom line - I'm happier supporting that lot and going out in the quarters than throwing my lot in with this type of shithousing. Even if they do go on to win it.
Come now Alpin, how many penalties do you want? Two should have been enough.
Honestly... I've no skin in this game... Other than winning a couple of pence on France's win.
It's literally just a game.
Doesn't feel that bad going out, TBH, I'm either getting old, or perhaps England not playing frustratingly awfully all the way through the group games is enough for me.
I agree martinh, since the draw I've had my eyes on a tough date with France as the likely outcome so it feels 'about right'. Sad of course we couldn't go through after matching them, and because the semi was then open for a potential date next week....
Hard to see what Southgate got wrong this tournament, certainly less criticism of his decisions this time than the last two. Most of his decisions came off, even today, bringing Mount on who won a penalty.
Some criticism for taking Saka off but you could see he wanted to get more crosses in from the right to try a different option, what with Walker being tied up watching Mmbape all game and Sterling's better at crossing and he put in a few to be fair.
One bad referee,
Two good goals,
Three penalties (should have been),
Four more years....
Southgate needs to go
Have a word with yourself.
What he’s doing is brilliant. Building
. We’re the second youngest team in the tournament. Look what’s happening to ageing squads full of fading ‘superstars’. Look at the pathetic site of Ronaldo today.
We were never going to win the World Cup, but he’s checked my utter disdain for international football
My 15 year old daughter, who plays centre half, has loved this World Cup. That’ll do for me. Sums up how football is changing for the better.
So, could be Croatia v France again. Hoping Croatia do it this time.
I think the team came of age tonight, in the first half they looked inhibited and a bit fearful, in the second half they realised they belong at this level and when you watch Bellingham you can see he thinks himself a world beater, he's only 19 but he's already behaving like a captain on the pitch. His sense of self belief is, err, unbeleivablè.
England bow out with a lot more grace than others can muster.
Not a single yellow card for any player, even up to the end of a QF run. Might not mean much to the Sh!thouser's of this World, but it means a lot to me.
Beaten by a better team tonight, but not played off the park. Not bad against current, and future, World Champions.
Beaten by a better team? I'm not so sure. Shackled Mbappe and Dembele. Early on they struggled against the 5 man midfield, but they adapted and were the equal of France everywhere on the field.
The referee was very, very poor. Weak. Lost control early. There is a pragmatic experience that other teams have. They will foul the opposition to a standstill in order to slow the game and control it. The ref needs to recognise that and act quickly. He didn't. Giroud kicking Walker in the leg as Walker carried that ball out of his own box typified the French approach. How the ref didn't spot the 3 whacks on Saka that led directly to the first goal is beyond me. How VAR didn't review the goal because of it is equally baffling. Same phase, direct to scoring. Ridiculous. How the lino missed the one on Kane, yes, it wasn't in the box but it was pretty obvious. As was the constant fouling of Rice, Bellingham, Saka, etc. etc.
I would much rather England not resort to the dark arts but it is how the teams with guile win.
I think Southgate should stay. 8 years ago the team would look like they were about to cr*p themselves at the start of a match like that. They looked every inch the equal today. Better ref and it could easily have gone the other way. He has really turned the team around mentally. I do think he needs some help with the technical and strategic side, or just needs to listen. His blinkers when it came to e.g. Foden was a bit baffling. Putting on Sterling for Saka ditto.
That said, I'm really looking forward to watching this team as they mature. Saka fed off the cauldron. He got kicked from pillar to post and went back for more. Maguire is a different player Internationally. The midfield really can play with the best.
No shame in that defeat, Southgate has built a strong squad of young players. Another night, another ref, it may have been different.
20 minutes to go I wondered if having Grealish provoking the French to give away free kicks around the area might have worked, but there's a reason I'm not a millionaire football manager, so I'll not get hit up about it.
It's what happens when you send boys to do women's work. 134 days of hurt 😎
👆😆
I'm greatly refreshed that there don't seem to be anything like the same reports of abuse and hatred on social media for Harry Kane as there were for Bukayo Saka, Marcus Rashford and Jadon Sancho after they missed key penalties in the Euros. That was only 18 months ago and as a nation we have clearly learned those lessons.
Although, and I can't put my finger on it.....
You could put it down to many things but I think the fact Kane is our all time top scorer and consistently top class means he gets a bit more leeway
You could put it down to many things but I think the fact Kane is our all time top scorer and consistently top class means he gets a bit more leeway
That's definitely it....
...and he's not brown!
It’s because he’s spursy, people expect him to blow it.
Definitely not the race thing,no definitely not that.
You could put it down to many things but I think the fact Kane is our all time top scorer and consistently top class means he gets a bit more leeway
Er.............nope
I know, how naive to think that! It's 2022 ads678, not 1822!
Did ourselves proud last night, Did annoy me when everyone in the pub I was in was bouncing up and down celebrating GETTING the 2nd penalty though..score it first before going mad! Felt for Kane, the ref ect has all be covered
There have been times as an England fan when it was justified to celebrate winning a corner!
Football has its demons but on the race front I think it does a lot more good than harm and is a positive force in integration.
The Black-Blanc-Beur '98 win in France provoked debate not only in France where Zidane (and some of the other team members) is automatically French thanks to being born in France (droit du sol) but also in other countries for example Germany where he wouldn't have been automatically German.
The euphoria in '98 was something unique in my life: there are events that bring large numbers of like minded people together in a festive spirit - raves and music festivals for example. However I've never seen pretty much the whole population of a town out on the streets celebrating the way they did here in '98. All ages, all colours, every socio-professional group... never seen anything like it. It changed my mind about football.
So there's a lot of evidence that football is a positive force in racial integration and that isn't changed by a few dicks unhappy with British players who don't look British enough for them.
I'm delighted with the French win but would have liked England to have the opportunity to live a "'98" moment with a multi-racial team. The London Olympics were good but football reaches parts the Olympics don't..
while Ronaldo hid and cried in the dressing room, Harry did this
https://twitter.com/i/status/1601707906495152128
Did he really say he was going to take it on the chin? Must have won a bet with that....
Not a single yellow card for any player, even up to the end of a QF run.
Picked our first one up last night, as it happens.
Ah, England out after their first real test, everyone looking at this as being the winner of the tournament with what's left, but this tournament has been mental so far, so lets hope we see some more shocks, hopefully with Argentina losing their Semi!
hopefully with Argentina losing their Semi!
Why? The Argentina-Holland game was a great watch, those first two saves in the penalty shoot out one of the highlights of the tournament so far.
Because i'm not a fan of the play acting and trying to get people sent off all the time, it's sad that in the day and age where we have all the technology in the world covering the game, we still see this happening, and nothing being done unless it's in the penalty box, or a red card requiring review.
Plus i like how Croatia have gone about their business at this WC, sure they've not been perfect at this stuff, but they've shown more than most.
Not a single yellow card for any player
Possibly an explanation for why they don't have that cutting edge. See my comments a couple of pages back about gamesmanship. If you want to be noble losers fine, think I'd prefer them to win something. England are too nice and friendly.
As for Southgate he's got as much as he's ever going to get out of these players. He's never going to win anything. Although I hope he doesn't go because they'll come knocking at the door of Eddie Howe and they can f*** right off with that.
Just rewatched parts of this game again and there was a number of England players asking the ref why Hernandez didn't get red. Albeit less forcibly than the Argentinians.
Biggest difference was Antoine Griezmann he was everywhere and doing some serious good work. England don't have a player like that. This is also a comparatively weakened French team with at least 4 to 5 first teamers missing.
Look at the pathetic site of Ronaldo today
Link?
😁😂🙂
That kind of free role Griezmann had, Foden could play. Better dribbler than him. Have Rice and Bellingham in behind and Saka and Rashford wide. Henderson to make way.
Defensively and offensively England really missed Reece James. He’s a good blend of TAA and Walker.
Why?
For me it starts in 1986, but continues with the way they absolutely worshipped the person responsible, and they continue to (apparently) behave like arseholes at every opportunity.
Just rewatched parts of this game again and there was a number of England players asking the ref why Hernandez didn’t get red. Albeit less forcibly than the Argentinians.
It was pretty clear why, you only get red for stopping a goal scoring opportunity, as Mount didn't have the ball, or was able to reach it this wasn't part of the argument.
Reality is France gave away two really poor penalties, first with Saka going away from goal, the second when Mount was never getting near that ball anyway, Hernandez did a lazy shoulder barge for no reason other than to knock over Mount and in this day and age you just don't get away with it in the penalty box, do it anywhere else you do though.
Link
Nicely done
That kind of free role Griezmann had, Foden could play. Better dribbler than him. Have Rice and Bellingham in behind and Saka and Rashford wide. Henderson to make way.
That's the way I would like to see the tactics evolve with the team now. I think Henderson has reached the end of the line now, and probably Walker as well, both will be too old heading into the next tournaments.
Southgate has said he is reluctant to play Foden in that role because he doesn't play it for city, but I think he will develop into a deeper role at city to, just at the moment he is competing with De Bruyne and Gundagon . I would give both Bellingham and Foden fairly roving roles, Rice as mainly the sitting midfielder with Bellingham given much more freedom to get forward. But Kane would have to play a more traditional centre forward role for that too work IMO, if he kept coming deep to get on the ball it would just congest the midfield.
This is also a comparatively weakened French team with at least 4 to 5 first teamers missing.
nice way to describe N'Golo Kanté 😉
There's something about England.
Probably the best squad in the tournament with a scary amount of young talented players.
And yet. They play weird Opta Stats football. Clinical and effective. Sensible and dull.
Based on percentages. On not conceding and winning set-pieces by drawing fouls...AKA diving.
Allows them to effortlessly glide past weaker teams but is a limiting style against the top tier.
It's hard to ask a player play a Griezmann type role because what you get with Griezmann is a decades worth of experience at all levels and in different leagues. He reminded me of Modric, the way he always seemed to find space and pick up the pieces.
Foden's got the skill but not the experience and he hasn't got the cynical edge that Griezmann has. We'll just have to settle for having the best all round, marauding midfielder in the world with Bellingham.
t was pretty clear why, you only get red for stopping a goal scoring opportunity, as Mount didn’t have the ball, or was able to reach it this wasn’t part of the argument.
Of course, since Mount didn't have the ball and wasn't able to reach it, therefore it couldn't be DOGSO, that also means that he could have got a red for using excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball. Can't have it both ways.....
The Black-Blanc-Beur ’98 win in France provoked debate not only in France where Zidane (and some of the other team members) is automatically French thanks to being born in France (droit du sol)
Everybody loves a winner. In 2010, when the team imploded, no blame or vitriol was directed at the white, French Manager or Coach. The Black-Beur players got it instead for being 'mafia-like' 'not french enough' etc. etc.
So apparently, France, just like everywhere else, is happy to adopt anyone when they are doing something good for the country. When they cock it up though......
Of course, since Mount didn’t have the ball and wasn’t able to reach it, therefore it couldn’t be DOGSO, that also means that he could have got a red for using excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball. Can’t have it both ways…..
It was a poor shoulder barge, nothing brutal about it, you see that type of challenge 10 times a game usually when players are ushering the ball out for a goal kick or throw in, its just not given much notice by refs.
England just need to improve to benefit from the talent they have just now, France didn't play that well, big players weren't in the game, but they managed to score twice from open play and hold out for the win, England need to do that against the big teams to win a trophy in the next few years.
, no blame or vitriol was directed at the white, French Manager
Domenech was sacked* after their elimination from the 2010 World Cup.
*for misconduct, no less.
Franck Ribéry was one of the players suspended and all the players black-blanc-beur alike went on strike, if it was a mafia colour wasn't a criteria for membership. The 'not French enough" critique you are right about, Chromolyolly. Some players weren't singing the Marseillaise which pissed off Sarkosy.
After events two things stood out - as you say that the black-beur players got the most criticism (and that was unacceptable), and that if you want to play for the national squad you commit 100%.
Lessons were learned and I think both France and the French team came out of it stronger.
It's a long process going from colonial power to racially integrated society and as per my first post on the subject, football is contributing.
The next match is a bit like Turkey-Germany in the 2008 Euros, I don't care who wins so long as which ever team (and their fans) loses France remains peaceful, if not there will be more lessons to learn. Yeah I'd like France to win but it would also be great to see an African team in the final.
Edit: on a personal level between the 1998 and 2010 world cups I'd been through the naturalisation process and then as now two words kept going throug my head - les droits et les devoirs: rights and duties, as an immigrant you get a whole load of rights which is great but you also sign up to you duties as a citizen, and it's made obvious to you. Most people in a country take the rights for granted and don't worry too much about the duties, as an immigrant you're expected to fulfil the duties most people don't worry about too much for themselves.