[Closed] So why don't football fans just withdraw support?

 they’d be at a bit of a loose end for 90 minutes each week

For many supporters it's a lot more than that. Many folk who by a Sky Sports subscription are watching a lot more than 90 mins per week.

It won't make a huge difference if they lose local support - football is a huge business now, fanbase is a global thing...those that can't attend an actual match tend to pay to watch - that won't stop.
Some owners do have a genuine concern rather than in it for the money, but football is no longer a game/sport, it is a business and it'll carry on for a good long while with or.without local support.

Their place will be taken by someone else, especially when talking about the bell end 6. The owners know it and that’s why they don’t care.

As for a sky boycott? I support Leeds so what motivation do I have to boycott? Same for the other 15 teams and the other divisions.

Football is too tribal to organise a cross club protest.

Sorry, 13 teams.

The Germans seem to be phenomenally successful despite (because of) legal requirement for 50% fan ownership. Therefore when a German buys a season ticket, replica shirt, match programme, pie and Bovril, they are genuinely helping the club. In England they are linig the pockets of a mega rich person with ulterior motives.

I used to work with a chap who was a massive supporter. He’d travel the country, Europe when his team travelled, week in week out. Season ticket holder, share holder, etc, etc.

It wasn’t 90 minutes per week, it was his entire life.

Because we can't. We're addicted, OK? We know it's bad for us, particularly fans of nondescript teams that have a good season every 20 years or so, and the rest is a mix of money sucking and self loathing. But give it up?

You might as well suggest that the best way to deal with atmospheric pollution is to stop breathing 😉

The Germans seem to be phenomenally successful despite (because of) legal requirement for 50% fan ownership.

Reality does not reflect that fantasy.

Didn’t see the fans complain when they overspent on paul pogba and the rest.

Football fans are fickle, they all want to buy success, but complain when things on or off the pitch go wrong

Wage spend caps needed to bring fairness.
Man City a foot in the door of winning the champions league, that they should have been banned from

For a reason I have never understood, football fans seem to have put way too much importance in a club then they have chosen at random at some point in their life.
Not easy to just withdraw support when they have put so much of their lives into it.
Alternatively, stop supporting massive clubs and go and support the club around the corner in division 17 who actually needs your money more directly.

I read an article by David Conn which said that the Glazers had taken £500mil out of the club in the same time that Man City's owners had put £500mil in.

Business ownership laws need looking at, it's not just football.

Most "football fans" really want to sit on their sofas for most of the week consuming Sky's product.
They're sky TV fans as much as anything. That's where their money goes.
ESL threatened that. It's been slapped down. Switch the box back on.

... but it’s hardly the end of the world.

For real supporters it'd be just that. As evidenced by theotherjonv.

You can see why fans are pissed (not condoning yesterday btw). Quote from BBC News:

...the argument goes, they would never have landed the club with the enormous debt associated with their controversial £790m leveraged takeover in 2005.

Manchester United were a debt-free organisation when they were on the stock market prior to the Glazers buying the club. The fans believe the Glazers should have used their own money.

That debt currently stands at £455.5m, according to the club's latest accounts, which were released on 4 March, 2021. It is estimated that in general finance costs, interest and dividends, the Glazer takeover has cost United in excess of £1bn.

With so much money in football, 'local' fans of some of the biggest clubs will always play second fiddle to TV revenue and global fan-base. It's business.
The reason people get so fanatical over football is an entirely different question. I think you either get it, or you don't (I don't).

When the Glazers took over at Old Trafford they were despised for the manner in which it was done - borrowing the money for the buyout, then loading that debt on to the club, which had previously been debt-free. They immediately hiked the ticket prices. We couldn’t see how what theyd done was actually legal!

At that point, I and most of my mates were season-ticket holders and on Saturday afternoons and midweek games, that was us. Meet up at the Quad for a few beers, grab a dodgy burger, time our walk to the ground so we got to our seats about a minute before kick off.

Increasingly disillusioned with the ownership and unable or unwilling to keep paying the ever increasing prices we all gave up our season tickets. So did thousands of others

Did that make a blind bit of difference to the Glazers?

What do you think?

As long as they can keep finding a new noodle partner in Singapore, keep selling overpriced replica kits by the container load at the club shop to Japanese tourists and keep on with their efforts to breakaway to earn even more money from a super league, they don’t give a flying **** about ‘legacy’ fans like me

I still love United, I still have a Sky subscription and never miss a match, I still take my eldest daughter - a handy centre-back herself and also big fan - to a few games a season but I despise the owners for what they’ve turned the club into, and particularly for being the apparent driving force behind this super-league nonsense

I agree, I'm a spurs fan, and used to go a lot as a kid, but the turning point was Abramovic buying Chelsea, that was the big change, Money has always dominated who is successful but that was a big turning point.
So I don't really watch the games and attend - in normal times - perhaps once a season at most.
For many fans, it is indeed their life, and the protests show what a good investment football is - what other brand would command so much loyalty?
Nothing will change, money will still rule the game; and the fans will just have the odd protest once in a while, then get lulled back into complaince with beer, Sky Sports, and the promise of Champions League football.
The super league is also inevitable however - young people aren't getting into football, doing things like Gaming instead, and the new markets are places in Asia, so the teams will inevitably splinter off and then play games all over the world. It's the logical endpoint of a league that was globalised some time ago.

The Germans Bayern Munich seem to be phenomenally reasonably successful despite (because of) legal requirement for 50% fan ownership.

FTFY

Didn’t see the fans complain when they overspent on paul pogba and the rest

well clearly you don’t know any United fans then. We were incredulous that we were spending that kind of money - including an alledged 30 million in agents fees - to buy back a player we’d let go a few seasons earlier. That just summed up the total mismanagement of the club. Absolute madness!

And when we signed Alexis Sanchez on the best part of half a million quid a week? Christ on a bendybus! What planet were they on?! Who on earth negotiated these insane deals?!

Oh... Ed Woodward - the Glazers representative on earth did.

They’ve spent a lot of money. Really really badly. While, let’s not forget; also ripping hundreds of millions out of the club for themselves.

Players were bought in not for how they fitted into the squad but for what revenue in replica short sales and image rights they could generate

The part of all of this I have never understood is the level of obsession that fans have. You just don’t see it in other sports and I don’t know what it is about football that drives this obsession

The part of all of this I have never understood is the level of obsession that fans have. You just don’t see it in other sports and I don’t know what it is about football that drives this obsession

I've never been into football, but I do get the obsession. It's about identity and tribalism (I think anyway). You used to see it with youth cultures, what music you listen to, what clubs you go to, clothes you wear etc... and to a lot of people, exciting and something to look forward to. I think a lot of that has been blanded out by the internet. Ie, every new thing is over before it's begun due to exposure. New scenes and fashions don't have time to develop. Or, the tribal nature of such things is seen as divisive, not politically correct and so discouraged. Everything must be the same.

As I said, never been into the game of football, but often been attracted to going to the matches as a last lonely outpost of tribalism.

That's my theory anyway, probably wrong. What do you think?

To go some way to understanding the importance of football, it’s worth reading Pies and Prejudice by Stuart Marconi.

He explains how these football clubs were the product of their communities, often based around specific industries or factories. This was how communities expressed their identity.

Rivalries were intense and loyalty absolute. That’s why the feelings between Blackburn and Burnley are just as intense, if not more so than say Liverpool and United.

The history of football is intertwined with the development of working class communities and has been clung on to during their post-industrial decline, like former mining communities still have their ‘colliery’ brass bands when nobody has been down a pit for decades.

It’s also passed down through generations resulting in chants like

“My old man said be a City fan,
I said * off, bollocks, you’re a *!

It does seem an amazing legal scam to be able to buy something by putting the thing you're buying into massive debt, but the club has also spent an astonishing amount.

I bet the protests wouldn't have happened if they'd somehow scraped past Man City to top spot this year though.

I guess effectively it's a bit like a mortgage. Does seem crazy though. Just like the amount of leverage the two brothers used who just bought ASDA - £6.8b business bought for £780m. Madness.

but the club has also spent an astonishing amount.

Indeed it has, but it's been done in a completely scattergun manner, with some absolutely inexplicable mega-money signings (Sanchez) that were obviously signed off in the boardroom, with little or no relationship to what was going on on the pitch, and clearly no involvement from the manager. How can you let a player go on a free transfer then pay 90 million quid to buy him back a couple of seasons later? It's complete insanity! The club is just being appallingly badly managed because the owners priorities have little in common with those of the fans.

It's also servicing massive debt that isn't the clubs, it's the owners, yet they continue to pay themselves hundreds of millions of pounds for the shockingly bad job they are doing

I bet the protests wouldn’t have happened if they’d somehow scraped past Man City to top spot this year though.

I think you're massively underestimating the anger at United that's been building since those parasites arrived, and to which the Superleague proposals were simply the final straw. It's not just on the pitch either. The Fans see Spurs new stadium, City's owners ploughing millions into the clubs facilities, whereas Old Trafford is pretty tatty now in comparison, because the owners rip as much as they can get away with out of the club, and invest as little as they can get away with back into it

The fans have had enough. If you watch the genuine passionate anger of Gary Neville, he's perfectly articulating the feelings of the fans towards the Glazers. It's complete hatred and the vitriol and scenes like yesterday are entirely deserved. They've had this coming for a long time

Surely lIverpool fans are presenty in the process of realising that the owners they heralded as the saviours of their club are in fact nothing of the sort. They're just anotehr bunch of carpet-baggers

Who is the true fan?
Local who goes to every home game, just like his dad and grandfather?
Someone the other end of the country with full sky and BT, watches every game, watches every post match analysis?
A kid in Singapore who knows every player, every stat, stays up to sillyoclock just to watch it live so he can talk to his best mate about it the next day?

What makes one more deserving than another?

Football fans...

Who is the true fan?

What makes one more deserving than another?

It's not an either/or scenario. Why on earth would you think it is?

Both sets of fans are important. We live in a globalised world, and thats a good thing. I don't doubt that a supporter in Singapore can be just as passionate as the bloke who's on the Stretford End every Saturday.

But neither's interests are being served by rapacious profiteering owners who want to wrench these clubs free of their geographical and historical roots, simply to make them into nomadic franchises, wandering the earth in search of the biggest payday.

For be under no illusions, that's what the European Superleague proposals are designed to be a step towards

Next weekends top of the table clash of the ESL soccerball between the Manchester Devils and the Liverpool Lightning will be live from Dubai on pay-per-view, with analysis from the studio at the end of every quarter

I think you’re massively underestimating the anger at United,...........

The fans have had enough.....

So what are they going to do about it? Back to my point, why don't they withhold their money and toxify the brand so that Glazer has no option except to sell?

It’s complete hatred and the vitriol and scenes like yesterday are entirely deserved. They’ve had this coming for a long time

Had what coming exactly?

Fair enough, they’d be at a bit of a loose end for 90 minutes each week

Most football fans (I assume) watch a lot more than just one game a week. I know I do, If there's footy on and and I'm at home, then it's on TV. Watched some EPL yesterday as well as the Old Firm derby and womens' Champions' League semi final. Sky Sports will the last thing to go in this house.

why don’t they withhold their money and toxify the brand so that Glazer has no option except to sell?

As I said, loads of us have withheld our money. We all gave up our season tickets. It made not a shred of difference. They just packed the ground with corporate hospitality instead (Roy Keane's 'Prawn Sandwich Brigade') and made even more money than before. So that went well.

The 'brand' is already as toxic as a nuclear weapons dump. They don't give a flying ****! While there's so much money sloshing around the fans that turn up on a match day are neither here nor there. Its replica shirt sales in Singapore, TV rights in China and coffee bean 'partners' in Illinois that are driving profits now. The match day 'fans' don't even figure in the equation

Had what coming exactly?

The fans taking direct action to hit the owners the only place they feel it. In their wallets. I can't imagine they're relishing the prospect of more games cancelled by protests (for which there are bound to be penalties) or scenes like yesterdays being broadcast around the world which hardly does their 'brand' much good.

Next weekends top of the table clash of the ESL soccerball between the Manchester Devils and the Liverpool Lightning will be live from Dubai on pay-per-view, with analysis from the studio at the end of every quarter

This was essentially the owners' vision. It's just that Perez was the only one mental enough to come straight out and say it.

What is needed is a complete overhaul of the regulation of club ownership. But I have no idea how this can now be achieved. We are now so far down the road already, with even relatively small clubs owned by foreign investors.

The Germans seem to be phenomenally successful despite (because of) legal requirement for 50% fan ownership.

Reality does not reflect that fantasy.

Indeed…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RB_Leipzig#Organization_and_finance

God love United but would you suddenly sell up in their position on the back of yesterday? Geographically remote owners, worldwide income streams where match day income is guaranteed even if those yesterday boycott the pies.

They’ve never given a toss that the fans all hate them. Just the same as Mike Ashley doesn’t. As long as the money keeps rolling in.

But all those channels that were meant to be broadcasting that game around the world, and all the firms with adverts booked at half time are going to want their money back now.

And will there be points deductions? That could cost a top four finish, which is hundreds of millions in lost revenue.

This is the only thing they’re interested in. When it starts costing them, that’s when they’ll start to take some notice

I asked my brother-in-law this exact question back when it all kicked off and the look I got back was akin to if I'd just asked to kill and eat his son. The thought of abandoning 'his' team is just unthinkable, pretty much no matter what they do.

For many supporters it’s a lot more than that. Many folk who by a Sky Sports subscription are watching a lot more than 90 mins per week.

My brother-in-law is one of those people that will happily sit indoors watching every match that has any remote influence of how his team (Manchester United) place in whatever tournament they're in, even if it's lovely and sunny outside and everyone else is in the garden. He's completely addicted to watching football, at the expense of lots of things. I think I've seen him actually kick a football a handful of times and never in an actual game. He did try to once argue it was the same as me with my F1 and WCDH viewing but his case fell down when he realised that A: it's infinitely less number of hours of viewing time per week/year B: I actually partake in the sports - occasionally go karting and ride bikes a lot, even the odd race! and C: I don't spend £70+ a month on a Sky subscription so I can sit on the sofa with a beer most evenings. I actually feel sorry for my sister about it all as she may well have him home most nights with her but he's just 'there', not actually interacting with her or his kids for longer than a few minutes.

I may not like football but I can see why the Super League proposal has peeved off the fans but they really don't help themselves with their blind support for 'their' team.

I'm wondering if post covid the grounds will be emptier? There were signs of it outside the big clubs before lockdown

Whether that effects the televised 'product' remains to be seen as the owners could probably get away with piping crowd sounds in like they're now used to doing

Swathes of empty seats might concern the owners but theyll probably just put all the fans in the stand opposite the main camera

The otherjonv

Because we can’t. We’re addicted, OK? We know it’s bad for us, particularly fans of nondescript teams that have a good season every 20 years or so, and the rest is a mix of money sucking and self loathing. But give it up?

You might as well suggest that the best way to deal with atmospheric pollution is to stop breathing 😉

But why that team ???
Why not the locals in the park ??
Or if enjoyment is watching people better than you (and a bit of an assumption) a local team?

If you ever want to watch Woking live who are apparently quite good but also a very family/inclusive atmosphere, you're welcome to free parking on my drive but I'll be off cycling 😉

I’m wondering if post covid the grounds will be emptier? There were signs of it outside the big clubs before lockdown

A couple of days before they announced lockdown, Liverpool played Atletico Madrid at Anfield in the champions league. The ground was full to capacity including 5,000 fans who had flown in from Madrid which was the epicentre of Covid infection in Europe at the time.

Absolute madness!

Anyone with any reasonable sense of self-preservation would have been nowhere near the place.

I think that answers your question about whether you’ll see emptier grounds or not. If they allowed everyone back in for this weekends games, the grounds would be packed to capacity again

Maybe it is easier/best to not try to understand the whys - how many of us have tried to explain our obsession/passion for mountain biking to have blank looks or questions like, '...but it is just a bike...' or '...are you not too old to be playing on a bike...'? Football clearly has the same passions and for those not involved with it, they ask similar questions.

For those who are fans of football, it can be all consuming, for those who have no interest in it (like me), they see it for what it appears to be these days - a money-making business. For the fans though, it is far more than that...

I've a mate who is a real football fan - doesn't really play, but follows his team religiously. Fortunately, he knows I can't stand it so we don't talk about it much, but I do enjoy asking him deliberately stupid questions about his team and listen to him getting wound up. He is a pretty normal guy - until a football game is on the tv and then he changes very quickly into a totally different person - screaming at the tv - he seems oblivious to the change whilst the football is on.

As I said in my first post on this thread (and again at the start of this one) - in the cold light of day, football is just a business to the high up people, the fact the fans see it as far more than that just ensures the cash-cow just keeps on paying.

Football clearly has the same passions and for those not involved with it, they ask similar questions.

For people playing football maybe. I think most of us would find it somewhat odd if someone started announcing how "we" had a really nice run at the UCI championships.
It does seem to be a substitute for religion for some. I vaguely remember that one of the more nutty imams at Finsbury park did use the Arsenal supporters as an example for the sort of passion he wanted to get from the worshippers.

other fans

But why that team ???

Because it's my local team. The first team I ever saw. The one I went to with my Grandad when I got addicted. No more or less than that.

That’s my theory anyway, probably wrong. What do you think?

I think there's a lot of truth to what you wrote. Whenever I've been to the football (not much in the last few years) a large part of the appeal is feeling part of a mass of unified energy (with a clear enemy/opposition). At the risk of sounding ****y there used to be a sense of community pride/working class solidarity attached but seems like mostly only the tribalism is left now.

theotherjonv

Because it’s my local team. The first team I ever saw. The one I went to with my Grandad when I got addicted. No more or less than that.

I guess what I mean is if you like following football don't like what that "team"/"Business" etc. has become then why not just pick a different team? A bit like one of my mates who had his first MTB experience at Swinley (hiring) and for ages he's always go to Swinley because it ewas where he had his 1st experience ... even though he lives much closer to Peaslake.

Football wise I know a bloke locally who was born in Leeds but also supports Woking because he lives here... but for some reason he's criticised for that and "not a real fan" according to some of the diehard supporters... yet few of the players are local ... all seems a bit mysterious...

It does seem to be a substitute for religion for some.

More like it IS a religion for some. I remember my first day starting my old job and the look of horror on my new colleague's faces when they asked who I supported and I told them I'm not interested in football! I pretty much became an outcast to a certain group that second as anyone who doesn't like 'The Beautiful Game' must be a wrong 'un.

I had similar experience but probably not helped by me saying that the sports I did/followed required more than 1 ball...
Took several months for them to work out my humour.