[Closed] So, who's going to be the new Labour leader?

If Burnham gets it, bearing in mind he came 4th last time, he'll not last 5 years, probably two at most as he can't seem to survive a serious interview.

Probably buying time for the other Miliband to return, gain a seat and work the party to get elected leader.

Could even be the real plan hence why he's being talked up as a front-runner

[quote=teamhurtmore ] http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/10-delusions-about-labour-defeat-watch-out

Rule number one of left-wingery: it is always, somehow, Tony Blair’s fault.

😆

...and pick a socialist!

How about this working class chap called Tristram Hunt as the next Labour leader ... he seems to be a very determine person. 😛

rogerthecat - Member

...and pick a socialist!

With or without champagne?

teamhurtmore - Member

Talking of Croydon (I recall it came up a few days ago) what happened there?

Well George Osborne said that they needed to win Croydon Central to form a government and they beat Labour by 165 votes.

The Greens got 1,454 votes. If Labour hadn't spent years pissing off people like me they would have won the seat (I live in neighbouring Croydon South). Labour certainly didn't lose because their candidate was too left wing - take note Junkyard.

Of course some people will say that the real losers are the people of Croydon but frankly there isn't sufficient differences between Labour and the Tories, as Ed Balls kept reminding us, to make voting Labour worthwhile. Croydon Council flips from Tory to Labour regularly and Labour are perfectly happy to implement Tory policies. Although they will give motorists a bit of a hard time because they think it makes them look left-wing.

As someone who worked hard over many years to help turn Croydon Central from a save Tory seat a Labour seat it gives me no pleasure to say these things.

The LibDems came 5th with less votes than the Greens, an appalling result for them and all the more so when you consider that they had been in power in neighbouring Sutton, and Croydon was the scene of a historical LibDem by-election victory in 1981. Possibly the first LibDem by-election win ever, I can't quite remember.

UKIP did poorly in Croydon as they generally do in London polling well below their national average at 9.1%.

Rule number one of left-wingery: it is always, somehow, Tony Blair’s fault.

I don't why they use the word "somehow", it's a self-evident fact that Blair and his warmongering alienated many traditional Labour voters.

Only someone seriously deluded would think that Labour would only have one seat in Scotland today if John Smith had remained Labour leader.

Blair was the beginning of the end for Labour in Scotland.

See delusion #5 ernie.

Nah, but thanks, I wasn't sufficiently impressed rule number one to be bothered with delusion #5.

Though I'm sure it's very funny and that it made you laugh loads just like "rule number one" did.

It was only the TB one which made me laugh ernie, because it's a bit of a meme on here. Nothing particularly humorous about anything else in that list.

The Greens got 1,454 votes. If Labour hadn't spent years pissing off people like me they would have won the seat (I live in neighbouring Croydon South).

If labour pandered to people like you they'd have 5% of the vote and one mp.

You happen to know that Labour failed to win the seat in Croydon because their candidate Sarah Jones was too left-wing 5thElefant ? 🙂

From 1983 for nearly 10 years the Tories held Croydon North West, then in 1992 Labour won the seat. The reason Labour won the seat was to a great extent because [i]"people like me"[/i] worked tirelessly at every election to help Labour defeat the Tories.

The Labour Party has a lot less [i]"people like me"[/i] delivering leaflets, knocking on doors, stuffing envelopes, giving lifts, etc.

Perhaps if they had they might have managed to get the extra 166 votes that they needed to win. Never never underestimate the importance of canvassing and connecting with ordinary voters in marginal seats.

And as a foot note, the Tory MP I helped to defeat, Humfrey Malins, was/is one of the most decent Tories you could possibly imagine. Among other things he resigned from the Tory front bench in protest at the Tory Party's support for the Iraq War. He voted against the Iraq War obviously.

In contrast the Labour MP which I helped to get elected was an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq War. And his unquestioning loyalty to Tony Blair guaranteed him his ministerial career.

You can imagine how I felt/feel.

Until the Labour Party have principled policies that they believe in, that they can take to the people with honesty and integrity as well as consistency...it won't matter in any way who is leader.

A bit like choosing the next manager of Newcastle Utd!

Blair was the beginning of the end for Labour in Scotland.

Really?

'87 - 50 seats
'92 - 49
'97 - 56
'01 - 56
'05 - 41
'10 - 41

David Miliband is Tony Blair in a better suit.

Tony Blair managed to impose more left wing policies than any other UK politician in the last forty odd years - how? Simple, he won elections!

Really?

Yes really, as your figures show.

While the rest of the UK embraced Thatcher and the Tories Scotland bucked the trend and went the other way, ie, support for the Tories consistently fell while support for Labour consistently rose. The Labour vote in Scotland peaked in 2001 and then after the Iraq War fell, never to recover again before eventually completely collapsing.

Blair was the beginning of the end for Labour in Scotland. The final end came long after Blair had left to pursue his self-serving quest to become a multimillionaire and special adviser to the world's despots.

George Galloway is looking for a job.....

Just for completeness....

'87 - 50 seats of 72
'92 - 49 of 72
'97 - 56 of 72
'01 - 56 of 72
'05 - 41 of 59
'10 - 41 of 59

Which of the possible candidates has actually worked for a living at some point?

Which of the possible candidates has actually worked for a living at some point?

They're all benefit scroungers eh ?

Maybe worth mentioning that Burnham waved through a shit load of PWC inspired business-ification and privation of the NHS when last in power ( Google Ken Anderson if interested). So bit of a scumbag in my eyes

Jim Murphy - and if he needs a reference I bet Nicola will be happy to oblige

[quote=ernie_lynch ]They're all benefit scroungers eh ?

I guess it makes a change from tax dodgers.

It just annoys the hell out of me that a party built on workers/unions and supposedly for the working classes chooses/has representatives that have never had the experience of earning a wage other than through politics. Yes there will be some exceptions to this, but people going from Uni straight to the corridors of power without some graft in contributing towards the GDP doesn't seem right to me somehow for the party.

but they were born into wealth and privilege and had the best education money can buy so surely they know what's best for us plebes

I guess it makes a change from tax dodgers.

Well it certainly does. And all those who were born into money who have never needed to worry about working.

Although I see what Russell actually meant was "a proper job". Presumably like making and building stuff which involves having to wash your hands afterwards, none of this sitting on your fat arse like teaching or organising projects. Or sitting behind a computer all day. Proper "graft".

Proper "graft".

How does proper graft and hard working families cross over?

Did doing the job involve rolling your sleeves up and washing your hands afterwards ?

Once we established that then I think we can decide whether it was proper graft.

I've worked in offices where rolling your sleeves and and washing your hands on the way out was required...

Reading up, that Dan Jarvis seems to have done some graft and had his leadership skills tested.

Where are they putting the Edstone? Is there a Labour museum? It could go next to footage of Sheffield 1992. In the "we're alright" room.

Where are they putting the Edstone? Is there a Labour museum? It could go next to footage of Sheffield 1992. In the "we're alright" room.

I think they have erected it on Brighton beach, just next to the pier.

Mandelson scathing on Andrew Marr programme right now.

Mandelson scathing on Andrew Marr programme right now.

Jim Murphy - and if he needs a reference I bet Nicola will be happy to oblige

Also has the benefit of keeping a jobless person off the dole.

Chukka is on the TV now - trying to appeal to the right by the sounds of it.

The prince of darkness was at his best/worst. A charming opening to how to stab someone right in the chest. Spoke quite a lot of sense though.

Chukka is on the TV now - trying to appeal to the [s]right[/s] [b]his wiki page[/b] by the sounds of it.

According to the BBC these are the ones that are shortlisted for the party of good life:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32654262 ]BBC link here[/url]

Andy Burnham (Ya, the champagne is good, more please!)
[img] [/img]

Liz Kendall(I know better than you! This is good for you!)
[img] [/img]

Tristram Hunt (Baron von commy, you peasant class people bow to me!)
[img] [/img]

Chuka Umunna (Make no mistake! I shall rule you!)
[img] [/img]

Yvette Cooper (The other Balls is driving)
[img] [/img]

Dan Jarvis (AWOL time!)
[img] [/img]

Rachel Reeves (Free money to all!)
[img] [/img]
Stella Creasy (Let's make this world beautiful again!)
[img] [/img]
David Lammy (is that you Magic Johnson? Is that you?)
[img] [/img]

Ya, I would go for Chuka and Tristram as they will provide more entertainment.

Which one of the above would you trust your life with?

Do they have the leadership look?

😆

Why not Yvette Cooper?

Good bet until the superior Miliband gets back shirley?

[quote=teamhurtmore opined]Where are they putting the Edstone? Is there a Labour museum? It could go next to footage of Sheffield 1992. In the "we're alright" room.

Another post free from your political bias eh 😀

Hmm, having reviewed the list above, and knowing the Labour Party...

Jack Dromey!

Hmm, having reviewed the list above, and knowing the Labour Party...

Jack Dromey!

Is it an all female shortlist?

I'm sure you understood the joke Flashheart but any chance you could explain it to those who didn't ?

The Edstone should be put into Labour Party HQ as a constant reminder of the monumental F-up they made of the last few years and of the campaign in particular. Who those get it was a god idea and did they not imagine it would look like a tombstone ?

The Labour Party needs to decide who it wants to appeal to because at the moment it's stuck. It cannot accept that Blair got it right and brought them 13 years in Government. Hunt, Umana etc will have a broad national appeal but will they get the sport of the Labour heartlands.

Really it's the Ed vs David choice all over again. They (the Unions) got the wrong Miliband last time what will they do now ?

What is so good about David Miliband ?

@cheeky he was the more proven politician, had a higher profile and had shown he had the leadership qualities/media presence . Ed grew into it but too late. David was also ore centerist which is where IMO Labour need to be to win an election, the further left they go the more they will end in the wilderness.

What is so good about David Miliband ?

Well as a committed Tory jambalaya clearly thinks that David Miliband would have made a far better leader who would have won the general election for Labour.

I can only assume that he is bitterly disappointed that the Tories won.

And obviously Labour wouldn't have been reduced to just one MP in Scotland, like the Tories, if they had been led by a more right-wing leader.

Dan Jarvis just for calling his campaign "Operation honey badger".

EDIT:

Also, he fights muggers, wins sexiest MP competitions, and served in the army. I don't think the tories or right wing press would know what to do...

Lets hope they all have different names, it seemed to confuse them last time. They managed to select neither the right Milliband nor the right Ed.

What is so good about David Miliband ?

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

It's like wheeling out the oldies - major, Pantsdown and Mandleson - did we forget their times on office or the scandels?

chambord - Member

Dan Jarvis just for calling his campaign "Operation honey badger".

EDIT:

Also, he fights muggers, wins sexiest MP competitions, and served in the army. I don't think the tories or right wing press would know what to do...

he won't run as he will alienate the muslim vote which Labour relies on so heavily

http://order-order.com/2015/05/07/birmingham-muslims-ordered-to-vote-labour/#_@/o8ZLAd4yu1j8lQ

[quote=cheekyboy ]What is so good about David Miliband ?

Apart from appearing to be prime minister material to the large proportion of floating voters who care mostly about image? Whatever his political position and policies might be, surely that would be worth a few percentage points? I'm not particularly a fan, but he does appear to be electable in a way the other Milliband wasn't (and in a very similar way to TB, which you can take however you like).

Given one of the issues which played out in this election and possibly led to the Tory majority (and I speak as a possible Labour voter, for whom this issue might have affected my vote had I been in a constituency where my vote mattered), I reckon I might trust him to do a better job of putting NS in her place if Labour needed the support of the SNP to govern.

Well as a committed Tory jambalaya clearly thinks that David Miliband would have made a far better leader

chambord - Member
Dan Jarvis just for calling his campaign "Operation honey badger".

EDIT:

Also, he [s]fights muggers, wins sexiest MP competitions, and served in the army. I don't think the tories or right wing press would know what to do...[/s] isn't running.

Nothing to do with which way he was leaning. They lost because people still blame them for the crisis- and in the last 5 tears Labour did nowt to refute this.

IMO Labour needs a clean break not the next cab in the rank.

Also, he isn't running

The bloke even puts his family before his political ambition, what a man.

The bloke even [s]puts his family before[/s] [b]knows it is a hospital pass and paused[/b] his political ambition, what a man.

aracer - Member

I reckon I might trust him to do a better job of putting NS in her place if Labour needed the support of the SNP to govern.

Is this trust based on something tangible, or is just a hunch on your part ?

Tony Blair's and Gordon Brown's number one 'yes man' has never struck me with having any remarkable qualities much beyond being an excellent 'yes man'. Which presumably explains his hugely successful ministerial career accumulating in the post of Foreign Secretary. In comparison of course to Robin Cook the 'no' or 'not so quick man' whose ministerial career came to an abrupt end at the post of Foreign Secretary.

Assuming of course that putting Nicola Sturgeon "in her place" would be a vital requirement for any Labour PM which required "the support of the SNP to govern", as you tell us.

I would be very interested if you could explain what this greater trust in David Miliband to be a hard no man might be based on.

The bloke even knows it is a hospital pass and paused his political ambition, what a man.

How very cynical.

Classic risk of focusing on the messanger rather than the message

John Reid nailed it the other day when he said that labour had been on the wrong side of public opinion on every issue that mattered, the economy, wealth creation vs distribution, immigration, EU referendum, etc.

The left wing bubble did the most damage there - the policies formulated by those living inside the bubble did not reflect public opinion, rather what the bubble thought public opinion ought to be - Blair knew this, that the party had to appeal to a broad church, not just its traditional supporters, that it had to be aspirational and lay out what it stood for, rather than what it stood againt.

he also knew the essential truth, that you can't do f*** all unless you win elections.

jambalaya - Member

The election proved that the more left leaning Ed was the wrong choice.

The election proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that Labour got completely hammered in Scotland because unlike England the Scots had an electorally credible party which fought very vocally on policies to the left of the Labour Party.

Ed Miliband was only "left leaning" in that he wasn't quite as right-wing as his brother David. But the difference was very minimal, there certainly wasn't a huge gulf between them - Ed Miliband was almost as right-wing as his brother.

How very cynical

not really, who would want to be the Labour version of Haig?

better to wait 10 years

the policies formulated by those living inside the bubble did not reflect public opinion, rather what the bubble thought public opinion ought to be

Indeed. Which is precisely why the SNP did so remarkably well in Scotland.

In fact so well that Labour, the Conservatives, and the LibDems, were all reduced to just one seat each.

jambalaya - Member

The election proved that the more left leaning Ed was the wrong choice.

Ed was certainly the wrong choice. But not because he's left leaning; because he wasn't very good. I think a lot of people will try to extend this into "you can't be a left leaning Labour leader and win", unsurprisingly most of them will be rightwingers. But he got within 6% of the tories despite being a) a little bit more left wing than some would like and b) pretty bad, at the head of a pretty bad campaign.

So I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that a better leader at the head of a better campaign could do better with left-leaning policies.

It's like watching a pub team trying to play tiki-taka and then saying "Well that didn't work- therefore Barcelona should switch to hoofing it up the pitch and hoping there's someone at the other end"

And always entertaining to hear about how Blair made Labour electable; John Smith (and John Major) did that and would have walked the ball into an empty goalmouth if he'd lived. Then, who knows. But the Blair myth is absurd.

Funny, I remember Livingstone saying much the same in 92, that they lost because "the whole party has moved too far to the right" "too frightened to challenge vested interests" that (John Smiths) shadow budget didn't tax the rich enough...

So it's not going to be the other Mili next, but maybe the one after that following a caretaker leader. At least that's the usual interpretation of what he says here:

I'm clearly not a candidate in this leadership election…

Yeah it's been a while since the Labour Party had a leader who wasn't an MP. It's against the rules too I believe.

David Miliband said there was "absolutely no point in blaming the electorate" for the election result.
"They didn't want what was being offered,

Tend to agree with that. It sums ups Eds failure. Your policies have to appeal to the majority of voters. A lesson I hope the next leader takes on board.

Its not even that broad as it needs to appeal to the minority of voters who will jump ship between parties.

THM has no political allegiance perhaps we should ask him what would make him vote labour 😉

Thanks for the post @arcer. Yes impossible for a non MP to be leader of the Labour Party. I can't see how he'll be back, he has to win a by-election first and unless a Labour candidate stands down for him how can he know when he'll be back and only when he's back and elected can he stand. I think he's done and dusted with front line politics much like Portillo.

Your policies have to appeal to the majority of voters.

Not at all, as the Tories have discovered to their delight.

Wow Naz Shah's story/journey to becoming an MP was hard

For what it's worth, David Miliband is the rudest man I have ever met in 14 years in politics. Today he's shown he is also the least classy.

Quote from Tim Shipman, Sunday Times political correspondent

Labour have form in selecting leaders incapable of winning a General Election, and long may it continue 🙂

Today he's shown he is also the least classy.

Well that's all very intriguing but what faux pas did our Dave commit? Avocado and salad cream? Socks and saddles? Cabernet Sauvignon with baked sea bass? What exactly?

Labour have form in selecting leaders incapable of winning a General Election

You are presumably unaware that the Tory Party's three previous leaders were all incapable of winning a General Election.

This muddled thinking probably helps to explain why you support the Tories.

What exactly?

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32697212 ]This I imagine[/url]

This I imagine

Well presumably I lack class then too, because I can't see how that article explains why David Miliband is the least classy man that Tim Shipman has met in 14 years in politics.

Me neither ernie - I can only presume it's because he's being rude about his own brother, but does that mean it's less classy to say the same as everybody else is about somebody just because he's your brother? Given the owner of the newspaper he writes for, I do wonder whether it's an attempt to knock him and MRDA.

Well I must have missed the bit where he was rude about his brother, all I saw was that he expressed not exactly the same opinion as his brother. I thought he was actually quite nice about his brother.

Seems perfectly reasonable for David to point out that in his view a more centerist / Blair-ite Labour party would have done better. Ed and and the Unions went against the membership and the MPs and delivered a stunning loss, pointing that out doesn't mean you have no class.