What’s worrying for the Tories is that Truss & Sunak have spent weeks advertising what their policies will be
And they’re plummeting in the polls!
Probably because the main line of attack for both has been to criticise the policies of their own party, in a bid to discredit each other.
It’s been glorious watching them shoot themselves in the face.
Indeed.
The polling better reflects the electorate.
The hustings and all that had been said as part of them is for a very few who already hold a specific political view.
Of course there is a disconnect between the two.
So as well as being unelectable, how long before the Conservative party members implode with the realisation that what has been promised in the hustings cannot be delivered?
I also give it less than a month before the press just fully turn on her...
how long before the Conservative party members implode with the realisation that what has been promised in the hustings cannot be delivered?
Given that they still haven’t realised this yet about all Borises whoppers regarding Brexit, I wouldn’t hold your breath
It seems that all you have to do is keep telling that everything is absolutely bloody brilliant and they’ll accept that without question, despite all evidence to the contrary
That’s why Liz is opting for the culture war and wrapping herself in flags. Do that and it seems the Tory membership doesn’t look too closely at anything else, especially anything as inconvenient as reality
Goves assessment of her as being ‘on holiday from reality’ was bang on, but it’s equally as applicable to the last 3 years of Johnson’s ‘sunny uplands’
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1561608495404908544?t=ez5Yi81eaKvmFEMd-hjPOg&s=19
It's like the battle of the biggest amount of bullshit.
Both sides.
Neither side recognising that recession can now only be fixed by government spending.
If the government contracts spending then we will have a deeper recession.
So many issues coming to a head.
It's not the time to use fiscal responsibility as a way to elect a leader. Either leader will have to spend on something productive that is lacking in the economy.
The OBR was set up by George Osborne to effectively justify his failed austerity. They should not be used as a marker of how to operate spending.
Sleepwalking into a disaster for a large swathe of the population. It's a national emergency, and we have the prospect of the least competent government in UK history to stop people going without food and heat.
https://twitter.com/MattGarrahan/status/1561643603780321281
Criminal Barristers; well known as a hotbed of militant Industrial action have voted to go on indefinite strike
And workers at the Express too https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/21/journalists-at-rightwing-daily-express-set-to-strike-over-pay
That Honest Gov advert is spot on!
In reality Liz is just saying what that tiny proportion of the population who decide her fate want to hear, despite it being unpopular with basically everyone else. Cue a volte face once shes got the job.
I've just watched a great April fools spoof in August where they suggested GPs write prescriptions to the most venerable who actually manage to get an appointment. Admittedly the original source appears to the The Sun but even that kind of suggestion being let out into the wild regardless of whether is true or not (or even workable) just shows how much they've already lost the plot.
how long before the Conservative party members implode with the realisation that what has been promised in the hustings cannot be delivered?
Jam tomorrow, the oldest Conservative trick in the book.
breatheeasy
Free MemberIn reality Liz is just saying what that tiny proportion of the population who decide her fate want to hear, despite it being unpopular with basically everyone else. Cue a volte face once shes got the job.
Tory britain- where the absolute best you can hope for is that the new prime minister was lying about absolutely everything they said in their election campaign.
brexitrefugee
Free MemberHonest Govt advert on the UK
She talks like a text-to-speak app! Good vid though.
It seems like the few Tory MPs who still have the vaguest contact with the real world - and they’re a rare breed - are all coming out in support of Sunak, as they’re finally recognising the scale of the problem
Unfortunately, neither Liz, the barking mad MPs who support her and the senile old Home Counties racists that constitute the Tory membership don’t want to hear it. They want their La-La-land, Brexit, Empire 2.0 Thatcher cosplay
I think any u-turns on what she’s saying now is just wishful thinking. It’s pretty apparent that she actually believes the shite she’s spouting
She seems to think a cut in corporation tax will be all that’s required as inflation hits 18%.
We are truly ****ed!
Seems Liz has sewage on her hands....
Of course only the poor go to the seaside in the UK, so Tories don't care, as they fly away to their villa in the med.
You might not agree with their choice but I am not in the least bit convinced that Tory party members aren't interested in choosing a leader who will win them the next general election - why wouldn't they be?
And there is no reason to assume that it would be impossible for Liz Truss to win a general election, especially if she calls an early snap election as apparently most voters feel she should:
Certainly Starmer's head of strategy believes she could:
And helpfully Starmer has called for a snap election whoever wins. From the first link:
Sir Keir Starmer has already challenged whoever succeeds the outgoing prime minister on 5 September to call a snap election, insisting that the Labour Party is “ready” to govern after 12 years on the opposition benches.
Although I am not sure what Starmer means by Labour being "ready" to govern as by his own admission he has scrapped all of Labour's policies and now has a "clean slate".
He is apparently personally deciding what Labour policies should be and all he has come up with so far appears to be a five point plan to "make brexit work" :
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-sets-out-labours-5-point-plan-to-make-brexit-work/
But I think he might need more than that and a six month energy price freeze to put to British voters.
I think any u-turns on what she’s saying now is just wishful thinking.
If she doesn’t she’ll be out of office within 6 months. She might not even make it to Christmas. When winter kicks in and the collapse starts to accelerate people will be out on the streets. There’s a significant rump of senior Tory MPs aligning against her. When the shit hits the fan they’ll abandon her. I wouldn’t even be surprised if they didn’t support her in a VONC.
You turn if you want, the lady's not for turning!
Except for which political party to back, abolition of the monarchy, brexit, and some less monumental U-turns such as lower pay for public sector workers outside the South East.
Apart from that, the lady's not for turning.
So let me be very clear: with Labour, Britain will not go back into the EU. We will not be joining the single market. We will not be joining a customs union.
The reason I say this is simple. Nothing about revisiting those rows will help stimulate growth or bring down food prices or help British business thrive in the modern world.
It would simply be a recipe for more division
Umm.. the division would still be the same, remain vs leave, wouldn't it?
You're not healing any divisions at all by pressing ahead.
Campaigning on policy ideas and sticking with them are two different things.
As recent leaders have demonstrated.
Truss is doing nothing more than most leaders do - saying things to get elected (that are meant to appeal to the membership.)
When in power it won't be so much as a U-turn as a shell shock over what needs to be done.
I mean bear in mind Johnson promised everything and delivered nothing, and I'm not sure Truss has the same approach.
This early general election is a risky strategy if that plays out. Can't see it but stranger things have happened.
I don't know what you mean by stranger things have happened rone. Calling an early general election because of a change in the ruling party's leader isn't that strange - the last two prime ministers did precisely that.
Gordon Brown despite humming and harring didn't which was probably a mistake as the polls were showing that he would very likely have won, but he lost his bottle.
And my link above suggests that the majority of voters would like an early general election.
TBH Truss would be daft not to call an early election if she gets the predicted bounce. She can to an extent distance herself from the current shit** but when the shit hits the fan in a few months into her premiership that will be considerably harder.
** John Major successfully managed to pass himself off as a change from Thatcher and not responsible for her "flagship policy" the poll tax despite him being a loyal thatcherite cabinet minister, and Thatcher publicly proclaiming that he was her choice to become Tory leader.
I think the shit is already hitting the fan.
TBH Truss would be daft not to call an early election if she gets the predicted bounce.
She would need to convince the tory mps it would last the duration of a campaign which I suspect would be tricky.
That said going for it would probably be the best option for the tories. Either they somehow win and so get 5 years at which point things might recover enough to take the credit or alternately they lose and then blame labour for not working a miracle and failing to clear up the mess they made with the aid of the press come 2027 rewriting history.
I think the shit is already hitting the fan.
Well as I said Truss can to an extent distance herself from the small turd which has hit the fan, what is likely to come is buckets full of shit hitting the fan.
She could go to the country making all sorts of promises none of will have stood the test of time against a Labour Party which still isn't sure what its alternative policies are - and voters are even less sure.
I think an early general election would be fairly winnable for Truss. Starmer's head of strategy in the link on the previous certainly thinks so.
She would need to convince the tory mps it would last the duration of a campaign which I suspect would be tricky.
If she gets a healthy double digit bounce as is widely predicted then she would have to do exceptionally badly in the campaign or Labour would have to do exceptionally well for her to lose.
The election campaign only needs to be 25 days.
The first few days in office will give a clue how well voters warm to her. Although she would need not to make the same mistake as Gordon Brown made - he hummed and harred so long that he was forced to end speculation by announcing that there would be no early election.
She won’t call an early election (I think). She’s spent too long manoeuvring herself into the top job to chuck it all away on a 50-50 gamble. Plus I think she’s hubristic enough to think she can turn it round. That may change when the civil servants sit her down and spell out the tsunami of problems which face her but I still don’t think she’ll go for it. Her premiership will be a last gasp race to implement as much of the unhinged ukip/ERG agenda as possible and then it’ll be goodnight.
The other possibility is she’ll dump the brexit loons and revert back to the liberal wet she was before in response to a national crisis. I can’t really see that happening after she’s burned all her bridges in this campaign. The nutters are the only friends she has left. FFS, even Dominic Raab has figured out what side to be on.
One of the most interesting alternative time-line thought experiments there is - what if Gordon Brown called an election early after the 'transfer' ?
It definitely almost happened - my local MP was in town, pretending he was always thereabouts, Brown was riding high in the polls after the response to the floods. Rumour was feverish, and then...
Then he became 'Bottler Brown', and we live in this time-line.
* sad kazoo noises *
I don't think anyone on here is in position to predict how Truss will behave when faced with choices.
But I think she would be daft not call a snap election if as is very likely she gets a bounce in the polls. If she bottles it like Gordon Brown did she will have a mountain to climb in 2025. Dunno, maybe she has self-belief in her great abilities as Prime Minister but I don't.
Obviously a snap election isn't without risks but with Starmer as leader of the Labour Party and a tsunami of shit about to arrive this is actually an excellent time for the Tories to lose a general election.
No one seriously believes that Starmer would do things significantly different to the Tories and a Tory victory in 2027 would be highly likely.
If the Tories don't call an early general election apart from the certainty of an economic crisis in the next couple of years for them to contend with there is always the possibility that Starmer won't be Labour leader in 2025.
Starmer couldn't possibly be less radical. It would not be good for the Tories to lose to someone less right-wing than Starmer in 2025. Much better to lose to Starmer in 2022.
If I was a Tory Party member and there is a new PM bounce I would definitely be urging for an early election.
It's a good job that the Lib-Dems at least managed to ensure that the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011 passed, rigidly tying down each Government to a fixed term of five years so that so called 'snap elections' became a thing of the past.
Erm, wait...
.
I don’t know what you mean by stranger things have happened rone. Calling an early general election because of a change in the ruling party’s leader isn’t that strange – the last two prime ministers did precisely that.
Well because I don't think it would make much sense to call an election heading into this economic backdrop - I can't possibly see how that makes sense.
Truss is most likely to get in do a round of Q/E backed spending and try and raise her popularity.
It's my guess, just like yours.
According to half the asterisk shouters on here she's an absolute disaster from the off - so why a G.E?
This suggested bounce can't be counted on but I do think likely. And given Starmer has inched ahead - I can't see it under the current circumstances.
It's too risky. Tories don't do risk.
What's the timeframe for an early G.E btw 2022, 2023?
The election campaign only needs to be 25 days.
But it wouldn't be. There's already considerable push back about the Tories campaigning for the leadership and the fact that's left "no-one in charge" while millions are on the edge of a financial chasm. I think even the Tories would recognise that calling for a GE would seem just a wee bit selfish.
imagine how great everything will be in Jan.
No need to wait until January; halcyon days from early September.
She could go to the country making all sorts of promises none of will have stood the test of time
Always useful to have the media on your side.
TBH Truss would be daft not to call an early election if she gets the predicted bounce.
I absolutely dont see this
Even bonkers truss wouldn't be daft enough to call a GE with inflation in double digits and with people terrified to turn on their heating this winter
Any bounce for Truss is likely to be short lived in these circumstances
Theres going to be a bounce?
A snap election?
Really?
With inflation in double digits and predicted to hit 18%, strikes all over the shop as people struggle not to take what is effectively a huge pay cut and a PM taking power who's only idea is to try and make things worse with tax cuts pretty much exclusively benefitting the better off and corporate shareholders? After her party has spent the entire summer completely AWOL on the beach (literally) and more concerned with a self-indulgent vanity parade?
Good luck with that Liz
The country is tired of them putting their party before the country, as they have done all summer, so I doubt there will be much appetite for an election campaign in the middle of this upcoming shitstorm, and the person who instigated it will not exactly reap any benefits. I suspect its far more likely that most of the country would feel like Brenda...
I think even the Tories would recognise that calling for a GE would seem just a wee bit selfish.
According to YouGov the majority of voters think there should be an early general election after Johnson is replaced, and Starmer is demanding one. There's nothing selfish about accepting what voters and the opposition are asking for.
It’s my guess, just like yours.
Well that's the point, I am specifically not attempting to guess what Truss will do. I said that no one can predict how she will behave when faced with choices. Certainly I don't know how Truss thinks, why would I?
I said that she would be daft not to call a snap election if she gets the predicted bounce. I disagree that the risks are too great for me Tories.
Firstly Truss could use the gathering economic crisis to justify it. She could say, quite reasonably, that she is bringing a fresh approach and needs a personal mandate from the British people.
If she loses a snap election, which I think is probably unlikely, it would obviously be something of a disaster for her personally, but she could quite rightly argue that it was not a rejection by voters of her record as PM.
On the other hand losing a general election in 2022 to Starmer would certainly not be a disaster for the Tory Party. At some point the Tories will be voted out of office. Eventually ruling party fatigue always sets in with voters.
The Tories have now been in government for over 12 years, if they don't lose a snap election before the end of the year they are likely to lose the 2025 general election, and possibly very badly - which would probably mean that they would lose the following one too.
So what better time to lose a general election than now when Labour are led by a man who has promised not too shake things up too much, maintain the status quo, and will inherit an economic crisis unique in modern times?
The Tories successfully managed to blame Gordon Brown for the deregulation culture which was their legacy, there is no reason to assume that they won't be successful in blaming Starmer for what he inherits, especially as he is now arguing that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the system.
The Tories losing a general election to a Labour Party lead by Jeremy Corbyn would have been an absolutely catastrophic disaster for them, losing one to a Starmer led Labour Party is something which they can easily deal with.
Theres going to be a bounce?
No one can be sure binners but according to Starmer's head of strategy in your favourite newspaper there could be a "big" bounce:
So what better time to lose a general election than now
Political parties don't make decisions like that though. So sounds sensible in your head, is totally not how they operate in real life.
You can be absolutely sure that the Tories will have calculated what a catastrophic disaster it would have been to lose a general election to Jeremy Corbyn, do you honestly feel that they make no distinction with Keir Starmer?
Starmer is getting a remarkably easy ride if the Tories feel that he is a much of a threat as Corbyn.
After losing to Tony Blair in 97 John Major came out of Number 10 and in front of the TV cameras smiled and said "okay, we lost". He face didn't look bothered.
So what better time to lose a general election than now when Labour are led by a man who has promised not too shake things up too much, maintain the status quo,
You keep saying this as if being vaguely liberal about free markets is a really bad thing, but only if it's Labour?
Other benefits of a Labour Government:
Nadine Dorris isn't calling for the banning of algorithms and the sale of Channel 4.
Priti Patel isn't Home secretary
Matt Hancock
Chris Grayling
Grant Shapps
Therese Coffee
Michael Gove
etc
All not in the cabinet.
I'm with Ernie, and this comment resonates with me as even last week I had some ToryBot on Twitter make the same comment, and I replied with "so you Tories believe in MORE regulation?". Needless to say they never replied.
The Tories successfully managed to blame Gordon Brown for the deregulation culture which was their legacy, there is no reason to assume that they won’t be successful in blaming Starmer for what he inherits, especially as he is now arguing that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the system.
After losing to Tony Blair in 97 John Major came out of Number 10 and in front of the TV cameras smiled and said “okay, we lost”. He face didn’t look bothered.
Are there many examples of election-losing Prime Ministers wailing and rending their garments for the cameras in front of no.10?
Starmer is getting a remarkably easy ride if the Tories feel that he is a much of a threat as Corbyn.
Well maybe instead of some daft implied 'they're all the same anyway' conspiracy theory its simply that, compared to Corbyn, they have about 0.00000000000001% of the ammunition required to assassinate him. Discrediting Grandad was literally like shooting fish in a barrel for the rightwing press, he presented them with so many open goals.
I'm sure that come the general election the heat will be turned right up.
Oh bollocks.... they're turning this into the Keir Starmer thread again, aren't they?
