[Closed] So, Scottish Independence then. Not really wanted by Scots.

IIRC TJ isn't even bloody Scottish!

An opinion pole, commissioned by the pro-UK group, and voted on by 1000 people, who are probably the campaigners for that group.

Shouldn't be an article, no journalist worth his salt would actually try and make a story out of that unless they are pushing an agenda.

well, I took part in the survey (IIRC) - so, ergo, flawed already..

oh, and MSP, I *think* that the survey may have been commissioned by Darling (just Darling - doubt it) but the respondents aren't told who has commissioned it, and are not (as far as I know) selected on that basis.

So I'm afraid sounds "well then, what do you expect" but reasonably well-run I would say.

IIRC TJ isn't even bloody Scottish!

Nope. He is a blue paint face paint wearing Englishman if memory serves me correct.

(Well, the Englishman bit.)

Are you?

Nothing new. Has always been the case that the majority of Scots are against full independence.

But the proportion that do want independence is growing and the SNP have done well enough in other aspects of Scottish politics that people like me are prepared to at least listen to what Salmon and Sturgeon have to say.

It's been a while since we had a Scottish independence thread. Well done for remembering how much fun they are.

Is Jezza on a ban or something? He's being very quiet.

I'm sure I can hear the noise of teeth grinding from somewhere North of here. 😆

"Scottish". Erm, remind me again......? 🙂

I hail from Scotland and [b]even live there[/b] (unlike some very famous tax dodging Independanistas) and don't know anyone whose opinion I regard as "sensible" or "balanced" who is in favour of it. Devolved local powers to decide on roads, Healthcare and education make sense, but then Defence, national security and fiscal policy..not sure about that.

Is Jezza on a ban or something? He's being very quiet.

I believe he is in gainful employment, something unlikely to happen under independence 😉

Nope. He is a blue paint face paint wearing Englishman if memory serves me correct.

Well, he went to school in Scotland, and he's now somewhere around 50... I think it's time we (the English members of STW) accepted that he's gone to us, and sadly move on. He's all yours, Scotland!

Where is he, anyway? Banned for excessive arguing again?

the SNP have done well enough in other aspects of Scottish politics that people like me are prepared to at least listen to what Salmon and Sturgeon have to say.

To be fair, the other parties have been very supportive of Salmond. Johann Lamont can't even open her mouth without talking about him, the Tories have put some nice wee lassie in charge and the Yellow Branch of the Tories have some charisma free civil servant in charge. When any of them are asked what their policies are you can almost hear the papers rustling as they look up Big Eck's response to a the same question and repeat but just sticking "Not.." in front. If Salmond wanted the other parties to campaign for independence, all he'd have to do is start campaigning to keep the union. as long as they let themselves be defined by the SNP, there will never be a credible opposition and independence might just happen because there's no one with a serous defence against it.

I hail from Scotland and even live there (unlike some very famous tax dodging Independanistas) and don't know anyone whose opinion I regard as "sensible" or "balanced" who is in favour of it. Devolved local powers to decide on roads, Healthcare and education make sense, but then Defence, national security and fiscal policy..not sure about that.

fair enough but WHY? If I was Scottish, and if I disliked the English as intensely as most of the Scots I've met seem to, I'd definitely want independence, regardless of any problems it might cause in the short and medium term.

Actually, regardless of the english thing, I'd want to be independent.

Never heard anyone credibly claim that there was a majority in favour of independence (on that side of the border) tbh - think it's pretty much accepted that the SNP would have some hard yards ahead in getting a pro-independence vote out of any referendum.

I think it's time we (the English members of STW) accepted that he's gone to us, and sadly move on....

Well my dirty little secret is that, as vocal as used to be on threads discussing to English/Scottish matters is that............I'm not technically English either.

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Last poll I saw had a 1% lead for independence, but that was around the last spate of Scottish independence threads on here. There seems to be a steady 1/3 of Scots who are pro, maybe 1/4 who are against and the rest are floating. It will be very interesting to see how the pro uk parties handle the debate, if its the same way they usually do yes support will keep growing imo.

IIRC TJ isn't even bloody Scottish!

and don't know anyone whose opinion I regard as "sensible" or "balanced" who is in favour of it.

WOW only people who agree with you are sensible and balanced..i think i have found TJ's secret log on account.

Not news so lets wait for the big day when everyoine says what they think rather than 1000 from i assume 3 illion plus voters

[img] [/img]

It would be funnier if they'd actually managed to spell Irn-Bru correctly

Ask yourself this if a pair of self serving bastards like Cameron and Osborne think Scottish Independance is a bad thing what's in it for them?

if I disliked the English as intensely as most of the Scots I've met seem to,

Noone in scotland dislikes the English, they dislike cockney wide boys, as do 90% of English people too.

Unfortuantely, most of the coverage of "English people" in the Scottish media is of loud, England football shirt wearing, drunk southerers shouting "engerrrland" and "oi oi" whilst beating up families in foreign countries. Not exactly representative of England though.

(A Scotsman who just moved back to the homeland after living in England for the last 8 years).

Support for independence has always hovered around the 50% mark.

I think the SNP gains up here have less to do with this particular vote and more to do with not wanting labour or tories at the helm.

Why is is the English who start these threads; are you feeling unloved? It is going to be lot closer than many think; and unlike any claims to the contrary it is not going to end the indy Q for ever.

Why is is the English who start these threads; are you feeling unloved? It is going to be lot closer than many think; and unlike any claims to the contrary it is not going to end the indy Q for ever.

Because we'd quite like you to bugger off?

Don't know why I read these threads as they just upset me.

There are some Scots who do dislike all English people but that is a small minority. The desire for independence should be separated from anti-English sentiment. I am pro-independence and my wife is anti, but she is English. Would those of the hard of understanding like to reconcile my support of independence and in some people's view anti-English feeling with the fact that I married an English woman? We are able to debate our different views in a civilised manner without recourse to silly name calling. She understands that my view is that self determination for Scotland is something that I support as being in the best interests of my country. She feels that it is in Scotland's best interests to remain part of the UK. We will vote differently come the referendum.

Support for independence has always hovered around the 50% mark

I believe he is in gainful employment, something unlikely to happen under independence

😀

think it's pretty much accepted that the SNP would have some hard yards ahead in getting a pro-independence vote out of any referendum.

by who? People in England who find it difficult to believe that anybody would fancy a future without them?

Na. Most of us would be quite happy to see you go. Slightly ironic that the independence movement would be much more successful if the English were allowed a vote

But Zokes; then you would have nobody to accuse of racism...then explain WHY we should be grateful to England. All typed from the country you have chosen to live in...You are brilliant value on the rugby threads, good to see you continue that here.

Noone in scotland dislikes the English, they dislike cockney wide boys, as do 90% of English people too.

not my experience at all I'm afraid to say. Been to Aberdeen more times than I care to mention and every time there's been genuine hostility based on my english accent - i'm not a cockney btw. My wife lived in Scotland for most of her teenage years and was repeatedly beaten up at school for being english, well until she hospitalised a couple of them after getting rather good at aikido. 😉

Anyways, whatever. If I was scottish I'd want it, and if I was asked to vote on it I'd vote yes.

But Zokes; then you would have nobody to accuse of racism...then explain WHY we should be grateful to England. All typed from the country you have chosen to live in...You are brilliant value on the rugby threads, good to see you continue that here.

And neither would you be able to blame the English for everything...

Getting cold feet, are we?

Go have your independence ... join EURO to feed the Greeks, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc or be like them to wait for handouts and with mouth wide open waiting to be fed.

Salmond please make yourself the King of Scotland and yes you may put the people to hard labour after all they are lazy aren't they ...

😆

Never experiencd anti English/British sentiment in Scotland - some good natured piss taking and some interesting debates about independance, but nothing serious.

And no, as an Englishman I don't want an independant Scotland - we need all the anti Tory voters we can get.

Na. Most of us would be quite happy to see you go.

As GrahamS says above, the SNP are doing a good job so people are prepared to listen to Alex Salmond. I'm Scottish, living in Scotland and have voted SNP but have doubts about the non devolved areas - defence, finance etc. I hear the arguments about oil, whiskey and our regiment but I haven't heard enough to persuade me yet. If we are allowed to have the oil revenue, it will only last another 50 years or so. What happens then? This is a permanent decision and I'm not convinced the SNP are thinking that far ahead.

If we are allowed to have the oil revenue, it will only last another 50 years or so. What happens then? This is a permanent decision and I'm not convinced the SNP are thinking that far ahead.

TJ has all the answers to this 🙄

And neither would you be able to blame the English for everything...

Getting cold feet, are we?

Who's getting cold feet? Ahh yes, another Little Englander with a Big Chip desperately trying to hold on to the long gone belief that England is better.
How're the droughts and hosepipe bans going by the way?

How're the droughts and hosepipe bans going by the way?

Captain of the university debating team?

youngrob - Member

If we are allowed to have the oil revenue, it will only last another 50 years or so. What happens then?

Be like the Greeks?
Insist on being fed?
Waiting for handouts and with mouth wide open?
Blame others ... preferably your neighbour ...?

Put the Scots to hard labour?

Zokes; none of us actually hate the English; despite your often aired persecution complex. What are we blaming the English for exactly?

How're the droughts and hosepipe bans going by the way?

He comments on Scottish politics from Oz.

It's funny - the only time I've ever had this "all Scots hate the English" thing was when I was on a training course near London. Two of us Scots, about 20 English, and they couldn't stop going on about it. It really was bizarre - they'd invented this whole persecution complex about how the two of us must really hate them.

Funnily enough, by the end of the week we were coming around to the idea 🙂

Hiya.

Opinion polls show 30 - 50 % in favour depending how the question is asked 🙂 This one commissioned by one of the leading lights of the no campaign. Salmonds nicely written "preferred" question gets higher than 1:3 aproval

the no campaign needs to run a positive campaign focussing on what is good about the union not what might be bad about independence.

Anti- English prejudice is around - no doubt. Not a huge issue tho

I ain't even sure how I will vote in a referendum actually.

He comments on Scottish politics from Oz.

Gimme a couple of days and I'll be a lot closer than that...

For two months only you'll be able to imagine nationalistic arguments with me in your own time zone 🙂

Who's getting cold feet? Ahh yes, another Little Englander with a Big Chip desperately trying to hold on to the long gone belief that England is better.

Couldn't give a rats arse personally, but most people I speak to seem to favour independence, and not many of them are scottish. Actually, the only Scottish person I speak to regularly is terrified of the idea. Most seem slightly bemused by the concept.

And I might be about to break the internet here.....

the no campaign needs to run a positive campaign focussing on what is good about the union not what might be bad about independence.

I couldn't agree more.

not my experience at all I'm afraid to say. Been to Aberdeen more times than I care to mention and every time there's been genuine hostility based on my english accent - i'm not a cockney btw. My wife lived in Scotland for most of her teenage years and was repeatedly beaten up at school for being english, well until she hospitalised a couple of them after getting rather good at aikido.

Actually I think that's just the way many people are in Aberdeen when it comes to outsiders. I lived there for four months until the grief I was getting for being from Glasgow got to be too much of a PITA (OK, that maybe wasn't the only reason).

Why is is the English who start these threads; are you feeling unloved?

I'm a Geordie and as such, used to being unloved by Scots and English. I like it. I think a United Kingdom is better than Scotland trying to go it alone, so I take an interest in this.

Just think of the positives; how open politics in England would be; no need to create a fuel crisis just to hide corruption, because it doesn't matter! The Tories will be in power forever anyway.

I genuinely believe the 2014 date is right as there is a debate to be had about this and there is a huge undecided % . Salmond needs to be able to come up with some detail and positions and be questioned on them. Of his time in power here its a mixed bag for me. so I am listening to what is being said with interest. Scare tactics from the no camp are rubbish and will not work IMO

Scare tactics from the no camp are rubbish and will not work IMO

Agreed.

But a little more substance and a little less Braveheart from the Yes camp wouldn't go amiss either...

I really hope Scotland votes No, I also cringe everytime Dave goes near the issue and really don't think he's helping. But if the worst comes to the worst I'm firmly in favour of the border of any independent Scotland being drawn in a straight line between the Humber and the Mersey and Yorkshire on up being incorporated into Greater Scotlandshire...

...please don't leave us with Dave, please, we're sorry, what ever we did we're sorry...

I'm firmly in favour of the border of any independent Scotland being drawn in a straight line between the Humber and the Mersey and Yorkshire on up being incorporated into Greater Scotlandshire..

It is only a temp separation anyway. Once it suits England the ancestors of King Alex the first will be "roughly woo'ed" and we will be back to square one. Or WMD found in TJ's cellar (it worked before,not tj's basement,the WMD as an excuse to invade a country)

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😉

oops, the Dire Straits resulted in chewed apple on monitor...

great map!

I read the article that map came from having heard my flatmate tell me how well written and researched it was. What a load of offensive, ill researched bollocks, the map made me angry in itself.

Yup, pretty much what you'd expect form a Tory publication...

the map made me angry in itself.

You need to lighten up a little, chum.

that map is just a bit unfunny and a bit crap really.

I'm undecided. Hearing that George Galloway is fighting for the union has pushed me towards a yes vote though.

The Scots need the English to hate.

without us, they'll just start fighting each other!

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Couldn't give a rats arse personally,

For two months only you'll [s]be able[/s] have to put up with [s]imagine nationalistic arguments with[/s] uninformed drivel from me in your own time zone

really don't think he's helping

Zulu-Eleven - Member

The Scots need the English to hate.

without us, they'll just start fighting each other!

TandemJeremy - Member
I genuinely believe [that there] is a debate to be had about this and there is a huge undecided % . Salmond needs to be able to come up with some detail and positions and be questioned on them. Of his time in power here its a mixed bag for me. so I am listening to what is being said with interest.

Agree with that 😉 if you excuse the mild edit.

The map is mildy funny is a childish way but completely inappropriate for front cover of The Economist and at a time when proper debate is needed. Sad to see the need for dumbing down. Following Newsnight's lead?

That's England v Ireland in that picture, or North v South Ireland.

The Scots need the English to hate.

A lot of folk seem to be equating the desire for independence with "hating the English". Which is a shame and misrepresents the argument quite a bit.

Personally I don't know any Scots that hate the English.
(I was born in Glasgow and spent years living in Edinburgh and Aberdeen)

I don't hate the English the English are just w@nkers

I think Cameron is playing a blinder personally. Everytime he talks about being against Scottish independance support for it grows.

Pubicly he supports the union while privately knowing the tories will be in power in England for a generation is Scotland votes for independance.

The thing I don't understand is, why are they bringing the famous Bahamian actor Sean Connery to campaign for them?

I'm undecided. Hearing that George Galloway is fighting for the union

Probbaly becasue if there was independance we'd only have english MP's, so he'd be out of a job 😛

Doesn't Galloway represent an English constituency then?

The thing I don't understand is, why are they bringing the famous Bahamian actor Sean Connery to campaign for them?

Surely that's a Tollcross tan, and he isn't living in tax exile somewhere hot and sunny...

surroundedbyhills - Member

Devolved local powers to decide on roads, Healthcare and education make sense, but then Defence, national security and fiscal policy..not sure about that.

It sounds like good logic- but then you look at what an excellent state the economy's in, and at what our armed forces have been used for lately...

I think this might turn out to be a key point tbh... Heard Darling talking today about the economic benefits of union but we've heard nothing for years except how the economy is absolutely bollocksed. And I don't think we're seeing much evidence of the UK economy becoming rapidly unbollocksed either. So threatening scotland with economic bollocksing may not be that effective.

BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

yet you can't stop posting?

As it clearly irks you, it seems a worthwhile exercise 😉

Exports of Whisky have grown from £2.37bn in 2005 to £3.2bn last year

Will Westminster miss the tax and duty raised?

there are rumours of a "water tax" designed specifically to extract more revenue from the Scotch whisky industry.

I'm not in favor of independence as it seems to be very shortsighted, but I also plan not to be here in the next couple of years.

i think everyone has missed the most important question ever regards to independence if/when it happens....

who will Scotland send to EUROVISION 2015 !!!!!!!!!!

Darius?

And we can change the locks while he's away...

Norway has a population of about 5 million same as Scotland and seems to be doing alright. What exactly are the Scots who support the Union afraid of? Having the safety blanket of UK public spending removed?

As a Scot who's lived in England for the last 25 years I've yet to meet an English person who could give a damn whether Scotland is part of the union. Usual response is "If they want independence then why don't they just get on with it"

What exactly are the Scots who support the Union afraid of? Having the safety blanket of UK public spending removed?

As a Scot who's lived in England for the last 25 years ............

Maybe they're scared of losing the safety blanket of having England to escape to for 25 years if things aren't working out up there 😉