Have seen him in the past being interviewed and he's often come across as grumpy. Seemed to me he answered the questions on the subject then she brought them up again and he obviously couldn't be arsed to play her game so left.
I see everyones taken sides already!
I think I'm 80% on the interviewers side, 20% on John Cleeses. He just seemed a bit grumpy, should have batted those questions away pretty easily rather than walking off. Interviewers questions seem pretty reasonable given the context and Cleese enthusiasm for posting about cancel culture and wokeness on twitter.
Just watched it now – once great comedian is now an out of touch rude dinosaur
My mum was a manager in a WHSmiths branch in London decades ago where he was a customer. He hasn't changed.
e expected free advertising for
Literally the only reason 'slebs talk to the meeja. What's new
What we don't know is what was said to him e.g. "come on and tell us about your new tour, John." or "come on and have a wide ranging discussion on some culture, racism, Comedians in general and the issues around giving offense, state of the pandemic, stuff like that John"
Then she starts probing for a gotcha. Not what the producers and he discussed so he's off. Seems fair enough.
She wanted to catch him out on some culture and he batted her barbs aside. She tried to catch him on "how dare you earn a living during a pandemic" and he batted that aside. So she went back to trying to catch on old codger saying something *.* -ist. He didn't want to play.
I probably sit towards the "Woke" end of the scale (although I'm not sure I fully understand the term), and TBH I thought he seemed pretty reasonable, considered and engaged with the interview for about 6-1/2 minutes, and then politely opted out as he could see it was headed towards the interviewer trying to frame him as some sort of spokesperson for "Anti-woke comedy". when I don't quite think that was what Cleese was looking to do (discuss?)...
Anyway I don't actually believe in "Cancel culture", as in I don't think it really exists, it's mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get "Cancelled" some objectionable arses find the bookings dry up once they do or say something particularly objectionable, but that was always the nature of having a public profile and behaving like a dick.
And actually some people who's profile/career is winding down seem to be looking to get "Cancelled" as it seems to open up a whole new audience of culture-war zealots for them, where they can act like indignant bigots who just want to "Tell it like it is" (for a booking fee of course)...
It was a bit of a crap interview, not sure there's much of a complaint to be upheld though TBH...
(for a booking fee of course)…
Or the modern way… https://www.ustreme.com/
[ I am in no way comparing this guy to Cleese by the way ]
Cancel culture”, as in I don’t think it really exists, it’s mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get “Cancelled” some objectionable arses
I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence to prevent speakers they disagree with from giving lectures. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue. The lecture was cancelled on safety grounds. That kind of cancel culture definitely exists.
I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade
Is there a uniform? Marching practice?
Love python etc, but since Cleese outed himself as a right wing racist nut job, I find him hard to watch 'in character' now, a bit like watching a Kevin Spacey film, nevermind actually listening to the man himself.
I guess he wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition?
I think he went in expecting an argument but all he got was contradiction
Cleese has always been ****ing irritating, that's what makes him funny to some. I just find him ****ing irritating.
When I saw "Frankfurt school" on the previous page surrounded by incoherent text that was irritating too, it was copied into the search bar which came up with:
i_scoff_cake
Free MemberBy cultural Marxism I mean the strand of Marxist thought that goes from Gramsci, to Critical Theory of Frankfurt School, Marcuse, then morphs into Critical methods by way of Kimberle Crenshawm etc., and CRT to the present day.
as the first result. Makes you think.
So let it out and let it in, hey Jude, begin,
You're waiting for someone to perform with.
And don't you know that it's just you, hey Jude, you'll do,
The movement you need is on your shoulder.
He answered the question about cancel culture up front. Then she just wanted to talk about that without following up on the answers he gave. It must have been painful for him
He's correct btw. His point about CBT was bob on.
Is there a uniform?
Too Marxist
Marching practice?
Marching = movement facism
Practice = time and expectation facism
You are cancelled.
I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence
. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue.
Well if anyone needs conclusive proof, "I seem to recall" must surely provide it.
Cancel culture”, as in I don’t think it really exists, it’s mostly a RW fiction. Very few people get “Cancelled”.
A comedian called Roy Chubby Brown had his Sheffield show cancelled recently by the venue's management. I doubt it was because "the bookings had dried up", it was at the City Hall which is probably the biggest venue in the city. So he's obviously got quite the following. I was only vaguely aware who RCB is, always had him down as crude comedy from the 80's, I never realised he was HITLER MKII. Thank god the venue saved that poor large audience from being possibly offended.
So, that's one that even I know about in my small neck of the woods... so it does happen.
He lasted longer than I would have with that interviewer. I think he was making some very balanced good points and the interviewer wanted the conversation to go down a very specific route. When it didn't go the way she wanted it to she kept trying to dig a hole for Cleese who wasn't taking the bait.
I agreed with most of what he said.
She had a pretty smug grin on her face the whole time although I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that one because it's the first I've seen of her.
Remember he's there to publicise his tour, not create good viral media for the BBCs own benefit.
It reminds me a lot of the interview between Quentin Tarantino and Krishnan guru Murphy who explained it very well before ending the interview.
If I had a venue, I think I'd 'cancel' it too, but then I wouldn't take a booking for a washed up has-been like Roy anyway.
I probably should have posted my thoughts as the op.
That said I do apologise for posting this topic as I suspect the last thing we all want right now is another contentious thread on here.
Anyway...
There are a few things he talked about in the interview that I don't agree with but they weren't overly continuous, and my views might simply be wrong. That happens a lot.
However he was directly asked, "is racist behaviour dressed up as banter acceptable as a joke?"
Now, it was an obvious "trap" question. Or rather, it was depending upon how you wanted to answer it.
He could have said "no" and shut it down straight away. No ifs, no buts.
Instead he basically took the 5th and instead criticised the nature of the question itself.
I think it's clear how he actually wanted to answer that question but self preservation is a very strong human trait. Even if only reputational or financial.
So, a leading question from the newscaster, absolutely, she reads Twitter too. A trap even, but only a trap if you patently want to give an answer that you know goes way, way beyond cancel culture etc.
I genuinely can't see any other motive for him not simply replying "no". Can anyone else?*
*Warning, that's a trap question, also a bleedin' obvious one.
If I had a venue, I think I’d ‘cancel’ it too, but then I wouldn’t take a booking for a washed up has-been like Roy anyway.
Well quite. I support the venue to book/cancel whatever artists they like, but why take the bloody booking in the first place then? Looks disingenuous.
Well quite. I support the venue to book/cancel whatever artists they like, but why take the bloody booking in the first place then? Looks disingenuous.
Good point.
I genuinely can’t see any other motive for him not simply replying “no”. Can anyone else?*
Well, given the context, the question reads like an accusation, and he might well have thought why should I have to take this s*** from some woman trying to manufacture controversy?
I think it’s clear how he actually wanted to answer that question but self preservation is a very strong human trait. Even if only reputational or financial.
Its not clear to me.
@ imnotverygood
An accusation, not seeing it?
It was a question plain and simple, an inconvenient and pertinent one it would seem for Cleese, but still just a question.
If I was asked it in real life I wouldn't take it as an accusation, I'd just give the obvious answer, no. Wouldn't have given it a seconds thought to be honest. Why would you?
Why ask it?
An accusation, not seeing it?
It was a question plain and simple, an inconvenient and pertinent one it would seem for Cleese, but still just a question.
If I was asked it in real life I wouldn’t take it as an accusation, I’d just give the obvious answer, no. Wouldn’t have given it a seconds thought to be honest. Why would you?
It was bait to try and create a narrative that the interviewer wanted, it was not a plain and simple question.
imnotverygood
Why ask it?
Why not ask it?
It was in the context of the discussion, it's a current news story and was asked on a news channel.
I can't think of a more appropriate situation.
It was bait to try and create a narrative that the interviewer wanted, it was not a plain and simple question.
It really is. You can try and paint it as something else but it really is a simple question and even simpler to answer.
"Is racism dressed up as banter ok?"
"No."
It's that easy.
Then it’s not much of a question then, is it?
imnotverygood
Full Member
Then it’s not much of a question then, is it?
Apparently it's harder than the Gordian knot to Cleese, but it's not really about the question being gargantuan, rather him being incapable of answering it in a palatable way.
Or it’s so simple a question that by her asking it, Cleese felt insulted, so left. … & that’s why he’s complained.
Cougar – I’m afraid I don’t understand what you wrote. I didn’t say what you said I said. You said something I didn’t say then asked me for an explanation. I can’t explain something you said.
Despite your protestations that you didn't say what he said you said, I think it can be safely said that what he said you said is definitely what you said. After all, if what was said actually wasn't said then that which was left unsaid can only not have been said if by being not said it was said to have been seen as being said. As Cougar said.
sounds like his agent would’ve been better off booking a slot on Graham Norton or something rather than BBC World News!
So very much this. Cleese’s agent screwed up. Cleese screwed up. Thought he was promoting his tour. Turned out he was being interviewed by a journalist on an actual news channel instead of BBC breakfast or something, got in a strop.
So many posters on here have missed that. The BBC is not one channel. This interview was on a news channel. Hence being interviewed by a news journalist rather than a presenter.
I don’t like him, but I might forgive him because this clearly was not the interview he expected. Same as a bunch of people on here.
I started watching the interview expecting to be offended by cleeses views but wasn't. Thought they were entirely reasonable really.
And I class myself on the woke-r end of the spectrum as others have said.
Interview style was completely inappropriate.
Don’t shoot me, I’m just
explaining the mechanisms at play that explain ‘woke culture’.saying stuff
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
You are cancelled.
That's exactly the kind of intolerance I would expect from a tightyrighty.
tsk
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
imnotverygood
Full Member
Or it’s so simple a question that by her asking it, Cleese felt insulted, so left. … & that’s why he’s complained.
So he didn't answer as it insulted his intelligent? Ok. There are a thousand ways a man as articulate as Cleese could have replied in the negative whilst still making it apparent he felt the question was inappropriate and I'll placed. Hell, he could still have made a complaint against the interview if he felt so inclined.
Dress it how you like, an obviously articulate man couldn't answer a question most Junior school kids would have no problem with understanding or answering. It's only a trap if you make it so yourself. He simply couldn't bring himself to answer.
To say the question was somehow below him and therefore not worthy of a reply is frankly ridiculous.
He then stayed in the interview for a while longer, got visibly angry and flounced. Hardly the act of a ferocious defender of free speech in the art of comedy.
‘woke culture’
It means judging people based on their membership of specific groups based on social, cultural, gender or ethnic identity.
Surely it’s not judging people simply based on the above?
What you’re describing is racism, sexism, nationalism etc, which are things I identify the anti-woke squad with.
To be fair it’s generally easier to identify the anti-woke than the woke as the anti-woke make so much noise about it.
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don't want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic and a vague annecdote about angry lefty students lobbing bricks at windows... It's a made up thing, if it were real then I wouldn't have witnessed Jordan Peterson on chuffing question time a couple of weeks ago (I cringed so much I thought I might actually implode)...
Anyway I'm not really up to speed on Cleese's ideas around cancel culture and woke-ism, I don't use Twitter. But I suppose if I want to learn about his ideas he has made a documentary I could watch, let him make his points the long form way, rather than watch him walk into "gotcha" questions from someone who's skimmed a bit of Twitter and then apparently given a false reason for wanting to do an interview.
As for the idea behind that searingly incisive "Racism dressed up as banter" question and the idea that it was a straightforward one to answer, well I think it's indicative of a very reductive understanding of comedy and how comedy uses offence (Cleese is still a comedian).
Comedians frequently use offence as a tool and say the "unsayable" either to illustrate the absurdity of an idea or social construct, or as an illustration of the opposing viewpoint to that which they are presenting, context is everything.
So is "racism as banter", used in comedy acceptable? Dunno, give me the context and let me try to judge the intent. She was just trying trick get an older, possibly jet-lagged man into suggesting Racism is acceptable...
If you want to talk about offence (racist or otherwise) in comedy, and what function it serves you could do worse than listen to Frankie Boyle's thoughts:
I don't agree with everything he says necessarily, and it's a bit old (2014), but I reckon he thinks more about the (often offensive) comedy he produces than many might believe and certainly considers context as part of the analysis...
Or you could just find some Roy Chubby Brown to stream.
I agree with a great deal of what you say cookeaa for what it's worth.
The cancel culture stuff is a bit of an irrelevance really in the context of this thread and in reality too.
It's more like this sort of stuff that made me more interested on how he handled that particular question. Like you say, context is very relevant.
I haven't watched that vid you posted yet but I will.👍
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don’t want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic and a vague annecdote about angry lefty students lobbing bricks at windows… It’s a made up thing, if it were real then I wouldn’t have witnessed Jordan Peterson on chuffing question time a couple of weeks ago (I cringed so much I thought I might actually implode)…
Eh? Who said RCB was cancelled due to the pandemic? Don't just make stuff up 😂
And what's Jordan Peterson got to do with anything? If you want to talk about JP in the context of this thread then that carcrash interview with C4's Kathy Newman would probably work better.
Cancel culture is relevant it's part of what she was going after him on.
Actually I picked the wrong example, if "cancel culture" is a real thing someone please explain why Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is currently our PM with his various historical comments and articles about "letterboxes", "Watermelon smiles" and "piccaninnies"?
My point was that JP on British TV at all is evidence that cancel culture doesn't exist.
And RCB having some booking called off was given as evidence for "cancelling" being a thing...
Perhaps we are off topic, was Cleese cutting that interview short controversial? I still don't think it actually was.
The BBC needs to train her again."
This comment reeks of posh white male entitlement. 'the woman needs to know her place'.
This comment reeks of posh white male entitlement. ‘the woman needs to know her place’.
Maybe, but it's down to the reader to infer that (context again). Cleese might be getting on but he's sharp enough to know how to phrase a put down so that it's "technically" about her professionalism and not her gender...
Well if anyone needs conclusive proof, “I seem to recall” must surely provide it.
If you are actually interested, there's this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching. That requires far more effort than posting snark, so may be beyond you.
