That’s exactly the kind of intolerance I would expect from a tightyrighty.
Wouldn't know. I've only ever seen it from what I would generally think is left of centre, given the broadly socialist vs individual nature of cancel culture.
Still cancelled though.
My point was that JP on British TV at all is evidence that cancel culture doesn’t exist.
I'm pretty sure there was a movement at the University he taught at that tried to get him removed, which to them was cancelling him, over the pronoun argument that launched him as a thing.
I don’t like him, but I might forgive him because this clearly was not the interview he expected.
And the mighty defender of free speech couldn't handle it so has thrown a massive hissy fit and called the journalist's professionalism into question, patronised the shit out of her, and tried to get her cancelled (or at the very least damage her career). Cool.
Proper grumpy old bugger who failed to answer the questions just did some waffling.
I do love the idea that cancel culture is real because people don’t want to watch Roy Chubby Brown during a pandemic
The council owned venue cancelled the gig and issued a statement that RCB didn't reflect their values hence the gig was "cancelled"
I wouldn't go and watch a RCB gig but I also don't have a problem with venues hosting him. Some people do have a problem with it, they are the ones writing to councillors pushing for him to be excluded. Net effect is another pyrrhic victory for one side of the argument.
There are other comics that get the same treatment, people go and see them at free gigs and then write to the venue about how awful it was and how they shouldn't host them, mention safe spaces etc etc
Comedy treads a fine line which sometimes is crossed, but then people generally stop going if the transgression is too far. If a comic isn't funny the audience disappears fairly quickly. Venues cancelling gigs which are popular due to complaint's or "values" is another thing. If you think a RCB gig represents a venues values I would suggest you are a bit blinkered.
Ok so I just watched the interview properly. He is vile, frankly, and I'm amazed to see people defending him over it. He talks over her, tells her the question is poor and 'scattered' when it is nothing of the kind.
He essentially advocates people being toughened up by bullying then tries to bully her. Hideous. How ironic that he complains about people not listening but is completely uninterested in hearing opinions that don't align with his own.
If there's one thing we learn from the interview it's that his comedy show will be shite.
Cancel him. 😛
Basically it seems like Cleese wants to use his fame and platform to broadcast his opinions, but doesn't want to defend them, or for the same things to be used to challenge them. Turnabout's always fair play.
jambourgie
Free MemberA comedian called Roy Chubby Brown had his Sheffield show cancelled recently by the venue’s management.
Everyone has the right to an opinion, a voice. You don't have the right to use someone else's stage to shout it. What you're talking about here isn't "cancel culture", it's "actions having consequences" and "other people also having opinions"
Everyone has the right to an opinion, a voice. You don’t have the right to use someone else’s stage to shout it. What you’re talking about here isn’t “cancel culture”, it’s “actions having consequences” and “other people also having opinions”
So people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn't cancelling someone?
You might not agree with some of what he's on about, you might think he's obnoxious, you might not find him funny, just don't go and see him you don't need to target a venue to stop those that do from enjoying a gig
I’m pretty sure there was a movement at the University he taught at that tried to get him removed, which to them was cancelling him, over the pronoun argument that launched him as a thing.
And thus JP faded into obscurity? Or found himself with a new career as an alt-right meeja "thinker"? His platform and income have grown as a result of this "cancelling" he got.
RCB's booking was completely unknown to me before this thread, but it sounds like a "cancelled booking" not a "cancelled career", he'll still be shifting DVDs and tickets for other venues, a quick Googling tells me can still go and see him this Sunday in Manchester, I'm sure that one lost booking will be converted into publicity and sales.
So who else has been "cancelled"?
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don't want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
I do like the idea from Ricky Gervais in wanting to live long enough to see this generation of Cancellers themselves get Cancelled by the next.
This article is quite clear on RCB being cancelled. His following mustn’t be great as in 2 years he sold less than half the tickets. He’s had his day, he use to sell out to far bigger venues, his videos sold in their thousands but times have moved on. I mean less face it Arthur Askey once thought to be absolutely hilarious.
If you are actually interested, there’s this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching
Yes, someone asserting that something may have happened somewhere at some point is an excellent basis for searching. Generally, it's up to those making a claim to support it.
Still cancelled though.
Tightyrighty: QED.
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don’t want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
Meh, There are no "right opinions" you either have the courage of your convictions, or you just don't like having them challenged, either of which is fine. People are as free to participate in discussions as not.
FWIW I doubt I will agree with all of Cleese's ideas about "cancel culture" (but I'll wait until his doc is out to decide). People don't get "cancelled" they get challenged for the things they have said, but their right to say them isn't taken away, and as I said some do find a secondary audience...
If the bookings dry up for someone with controversial things to say, that's normally because public mood or tastes have changed. That is the nature of our culture, constant flux, today you're "Edgey" tomorrow you're a bigotted old dinosaur, learn to accept that and the money you've put in the bank, or use your freedom of speech to complain about how your freedom speech (or ability to derive money from speech) has been curtailed because you're struggling to sell an unpopular message...
Its ironic that it tends to be people on the right that scream about "cancel culture"
I mean what did Friedrich Hayek teach you about "markets"?
So in the market place of ideas your opinions are no longer selling. Suck it up buttercup, get new material. But then writing stuff is hard, instead you could claim you've been cancelled.
The fates of two Pythons, Cleese and Palin, are interesting to compare. Both Oxbridge educated toffs with all the rights connections.
Palin is generally on the side of right and good and gets tagged "woke" as an insult by the Telegraph. Cleese is an obnoxious right-wing dick and gets to slag off the Beeb very vocally while caliming to be cancelled.
Don't forget your press is controlled by extreme right foreigners with an agenda that isn't in the interest of the British public.
Edit for stealth edit. 😉
Both Oxford educated
Nope.Cleese was Cambridge
That explains it. Oxfords not rogues.
I'm not sure what their shoes have to do with anything.
This article is quite clear on RCB being cancelled. His following mustn’t be great as in 2 years he sold less than half the tickets. He’s had his day, he use to sell out to far bigger venues, his videos sold in their thousands but times have moved on. I mean less face it Arthur Askey once thought to be absolutely hilarious.
Yes, that just about sums it up. But I wasn't going to link to that toerag of a "news" site The Star myself 😉
As a Sheffield resident, I don't give a toss about Roy Chubby Brown. What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what's good for us. It's a thin edge of a wedge thing too. The last paragraph of that article is slightly ominous: "SCT has assured the council there are now processes in place to ensure that each act is reviewed before bookings are taken.". So who gets to wield this power? What if the council drone appointed to do it just works off a list of buzzwords and then bans Stewart/Stu Lee cos they're too stupid to understand his comedy.
Let's just pay Michael McIntyre to do every comedy gig ever. That'll sort it. Oh wait, he's white, and a dude so that's not going to last long. Thank god.
Anyway, banning stuff never works, it just glorifies it. Look at recreational drugs, acid house, video nasties. Loads of cool stuff... Banning crap stuff gives it free, unearned publicity. Right, I'm off to check out this controversial comedian who's getting banned up and down the country!*
*joke. Please don't cancel me.
I probably sit towards the “Woke” end of the scale (although I’m not sure I fully understand the term)
Oh, this is easy. It means being nice to others, particularly but not exclusively to people who are underprivileged or otherwise a bit different.
Some people see this as problem. Which, well, do I need to add anything further?
there’s this thing called the internet. A lot of news is in there. You could try searching
There's this thing called "burden of proof" also.
The council owned venue cancelled the gig and issued a statement that RCB didn’t reflect their values hence the gig was “cancelled”
I find it a bit weird that they'd veto the gig after booking him in the first place. Like, he's hardly a new kid on the block. Surely anyone whose actual job is to book acts would've known, or at least checked if they didn't, what his material entailed?
You might not agree with some of what he’s on about, you might think he’s obnoxious, you might not find him funny, just don’t go and see him
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don't agree with him, don't go.
I don't like censorship and I don't really agree with the cancelling of the Fat Bastard's show. But it is what it is, if your act was last relevant 20 years ago then perhaps it's time to update your act or just take the money and run. I don't think Ben Elton has done much material about Thatcher lately.
piemonster
I do like the idea from Ricky Gervais in wanting to live long enough to see this generation of Cancellers themselves get Cancelled by the next.
I hold no inner fear of society changing over the years and challenging my preconceptions. My 24 year old son already does that.
It's changed a lot in my 53 years already, I just adapt and evolve with it as I am part of society. Its been happening for thousands of years. This is not some new phenomenon.
Those stuck in the past are generally the ones screaming into the void. I give you John Cleese.
As a fellow 53 year old - well said Poop!
Maybe I will feel differently at 82, but I hope not.
pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
Do they not get to have an opinion that RCB is a shit racist comedian and that they don't want him playing their venues? How come that opinion isn't protected under freedom of speech libertarians claim to value?
Anyway, Roy Chubby Brown isn't banned is he. Not wanting someone to play at your venue isn't banning them, any more than a band is being 'banned' for being rubbish and unpopular so not getting any gigs.
So who else has been “cancelled”?
There's a weird phenomenon going on here, isn't there. It's a very right-wing argument to go THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM because you'd heard that something might have allegedly happened to one person once, so proof positive. Have Muslims banned Christmas again yet this year or are we a bit early?
I wonder how many stay out of these discussions not because they don’t want to enage or share their voice, but because of anxiety of the consequences for not having the right opinion.
This too I find weird. Like, do people hold opinions which they know aren't right, but still hold them anyway? "I'm not racist, I just don't like ****stanis, that's my opinion but I'm scared to discuss it because triggered snowflakes might challenge me"?
I hold no inner fear of society changing over the years and challenging my preconceptions. My 24 year old son already does that.
It’s changed a lot in my 53 years already, I just adapt and evolve with it as I am part of society. Its been happening for thousands of years.
See, what I find interesting is that 'society' is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old. Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more, especially if there are more 53 year-olds than 24 year olds? There is, as you say, always going to be a generational divide in attitudes and ideas. The internet effectively forces the generations into much closer proximity than ever happened before. I put it to you that this sort of thing leads to 'culture wars'.
Hah. Right there in Drac's link.
The City Hall expected to sell around 800 tickets but only 367 tickets had been sold – they were refunded.
There was a campaign to reinstate the show with a small protest outside the City Hall but an online petition has collected 42,000 signatures.
So (at least) 41,633 people who hadn't bought a ticket anyway complained about it.
Snowflakes.
What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
I was under the impression SCT is a charity who don’t want to be associated with someone who still thinks it’s Ok to make racist jokes? I’m mean if that’s not the case and it’s the council I still see no issue with them not wanting him.
I’ll admit I use to find him funny, I was never keen on his racist material though, but over the years I’ve learnt that he’s just a misogynistic, vial and racist. As it would seem many have if he sold less 400 tickets for a venue in 2 years.
So people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn’t cancelling someone?
So these people shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. Sounds very cancel-y
what I find interesting is that ‘society’ is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old. Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more
The point here is that your 20-year old likely has thirty more years left on this planet than your 50-year old. Do your opinions matter, of course they do and again it's right-wing "Bloody Millennials" bedwetting to suggest otherwise. Do they matter more than the 20-year old, hell no. They'll still be dealing with our shit long after we're six feet under.
Anyway, Roy Chubby Brown isn’t banned is he. Not wanting someone to play at your venue isn’t banning them, any more than a band is being ‘banned’ for being rubbish and unpopular so not getting any gigs.
RCB wasn't cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council. So your analogy is frankly disingenuous.
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don’t agree with him, don’t go.
Is he funny?
I was under the impression SCT is a charity who don’t want to be associated with someone who still thinks it’s Ok to make racist jokes? I’m mean if that’s not the case and it’s the council I still see no issue with them not wanting him.
A really effective way of not being associated with a racist comedian is to not book them in the first place. Doing so in the first place for the ££££, then cancelling it when you realise you might get some splashback. Then saying the act doesn't fit our/YOUR values makes you look like a tit.
imnotverygood
See, what I find interesting is that ‘society’ is represented by the opinions of a 24 year old.
Hes is just one small part of society, not it's entirety. Just one element amongst millions but I didn't feel the need to list them to be honest. We are exposed to them every day. On stw for a start.
Just because you are 53, do your opinions not matter any more, especially if there are more 53 year-olds than 24 year olds?
Do my opinions matter? Yes, to me, but not necessarily to others. I don't mind that, it doesn't anger or worry me. "There are more of my age group in society than his", so that means my opinions are some how more valid because by an act of fate I was born earlier? Nah, I just find that odd.
You seem to be finding an existential crisis in society that I just don't see or get angered by.
I thought John Cleese was dead. Thanks STW for correcting me.
They’ll still be dealing with our shit long after we’re six feet under.
& in 30 years time another generation of 20 year olds will be dealing with the previous generation's shit. So are you implying that one generation matters more than another. What goes around comes around.
I’ve learnt that he’s just a misogynistic, vial and racist.
Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don’t agree with him, don’t go.
Old Abu's not been cancelled! He's had a small cameo on Mid Morning Matters with Alan Partridge.
"Death to The West!"
Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Badumtish
RCB wasn’t cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council
Easier to take a 'moral' stand when it happens to make financial sense too though isn't it. If he'd been selling out packed shows night after night I think there may have been a different judgement.
You seem to be finding an existential crisis in society that I just don’t see or get angered by.
I'm really not angered by it at all, I think it is inevitable that times change & a younger geneartion will have different views to their parents/grandparents. ('Hope I die before I get old' sings the now 77 year old Roger Daltry). The argument about 'cancel culture'(if it exists) is that the opinions of each different generation are far more accessible to each other, and therefore to what extent those differences should be allowed to be aired/tolerated.
Wasn't me who started the thread
Then saying the act doesn’t fit our/YOUR values makes you look like a tit.
It doesn’t it shows you’ve reviewed your first decision, likely made by one individual, then realised it was a mistake. Poor ticket sales would no doubt helped with their decision, the complaints too and then input from others at SCT and the council. They came to the conclusion he’s a racist and not wanted at the theatre.
RCB wasn’t cancelled due to poor ticket sales, he was cancelled due to a small number of complaints to the council.
Pretty sure this stuff has gone on forever and is nothing new. The difference is that at one time you might have been 'cancelled' for being black or gay, whereas now your more likely to be 'cancelled' for directing hate towards those who are black or gay.
There are some interesting discussions that can be had around the topic but I'm not convinced RCB is one of them.
Yeah, I started the thread. Sometimes its good to have your opinions challenged. Sometimes on stw, sometimes out there in the badlands of Kent.
My opinions have been challenged on here, it might even make me reevaluate a few things, who knows? My brain is more RAM than ROM.
Cheese is most definitely ZX81 with the wobbly RAM pack.
It doesn’t it shows you’ve reviewed your first decision, likely made by one individual, then realised it was a mistake. Poor ticket sales would no doubt helped with their decision, the complaints too and then input from others at SCT and the council. They came to the conclusion he’s a racist and not wanted at the theatre.
Fair enough. I see what you're saying. I just don't like having decisions made on my behalf. I'd feel exactly the same if a Snoop Dogg show got cancelled because he called a lady a 'ho' on Doggystyle 30 years ago. Which as it happens is one of my favourite albums. Does that mean I'm ant-women? No. It means I like the dank gangsta vibez 😉
You said you used to enjoy some of RCB's act, well one of my old friends was a huge fan. He (my mate) wasn't/isn't racist, sexist, or any kind of ...ist. He just loved the act. I think it's a thrill about how OUTRAGEOUS he's going to be. Probably the same a lot of extreme acts, like Death Metal for example.
Fair enough. I see what you’re saying. I just don’t like having decisions made on my behalf.
They didn’t cancel on your behalf, they cancelled as they felt it went against the charities ethics.
He just loved the act. I think it’s a thrill about how OUTRAGEOUS he’s going to be.
Yes that was the act but it’s dated and some of it was always wrong. I still might make the odd quote from him but the’s time is over.
