now if you had started the thread off with that
Now you see why my feelings are mixed. It's a damn good looking car especially close up when you can walk around it. The black is actually stunning, it's so deep and glossy.
Then I ended up on a bit of @51.9427702,-4.8384357,3a,75y,153.22h,77.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgQyDYA_n2aIlOxe3T6ngzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656">this kind of road and that's when my opinions started to shift.
Then I ended up on a bit of this kind of road and that’s when my opinions started to shift.
This may help. I really like my 320d touring, and if you read the reviews or watch the Chris Harris vids you’ll see things like “perfectly matched torque curve” and “fuss free cruise” etc. Now, on a motorway I’d agree, I love my (auto) car for what it offers me there, which is simple, responsive and comfortable cruising without much effort on my part. Now, here’s the relevant bit; as much as those reviews and videos will also talk about “pace”, “acceleration”, “urgency” and “sporty”, whenever I’ve decided I was to safely make progress along a B road for my own amusement, the car isn’t quite right; Although it makes a good attempt it’s not what it’s made for and I ease off the gas thinking that after all I’m a middle aged man trying to have “fun” in a diesel estate. I’m sure a Stig etc could make it do things that I can’t imagine, but it’s not an M3 like yours isn’t a C63.
Your Merc is the same; it’ll be a lovely cruiser, pleasant place to be, looks great and will tow that ‘van with aplomb, but it’s not a B road machine, and never will be. You’ll always find it slight underwhelming in that regard.
TLDR; The Germans have done a great job at building a car to do most things well, but you’ve expected too much from it in that scenario IMHO with or without the House on the back.
And fwiw no, the AMG Line badge didn’t change that any more than the MSport badge does on mine.
Kryton57
Full MemberWelcome back!
Cheers 🙂
Been lurking for a bit but a molgrips car thread proved too much temptation!
but until my youngest finishes primary school in 11 or so months’ time we still need two cars.
Bit young to be driving to school I'd have thought?
I dunno Kryton. I think it's pretty much exactly the car the driver in me wants. It's not a actually sporty, true, but it's a comfortable estate that handles incredibly well, so it's perfect for just flowing along the road. Even if you don't go fast (as I don't) it's so massively pleasing and also very easy and relaxing. It literally left me grinning on some roads (still under the limit and driving safely!), and yet throughout the holiday noone complained about the ride or feeling sick or anything even as I cornered (a bit) quicker. That's a pretty good achievement from Merc.
I suppose it all depends on how you want to drive your B roads; if you are revving hard and redlining then it's not ideal but if you want flow and comfort, it's spot on.
And let me clarify this is all at sensible and safe speeds, that's the beauty of driving it, it just feels positive on windy roads without needing high speed.
Yeah, I had W-124 series E-Class, with a 6 cylinder engine. Ride was truly amazing, especially compared to modern rock-hard Audis et al. I didn't know cars could feel like that. I never got close to exploring the handling (which basically means 'what the chassis does when the tyres lose traction', I think), it was just a super-cruiser and could probably glide up to 120 on motorways and still feel rock-solid, comfy and safe.
To me handling means what happens when you turn the steering wheel when driving along.
Just to chime in on the fast (or possibly not that fast) german car thing, in recent years we've had a golf gti and audi a4 with fat wheels and +200hp. Both drove like snowploughs. Whilst I wasn't surprised about the old turbo golf, the a4 I expected to be a bit more engaging, being 15 years newer, but in driving terms it was essentially a motorised yawn with a turbo.
To me handling means what happens when you turn the steering wheel when driving along.
I think that is called 'steering'.
edit
Broken down nicely here https://www.quora.com/What-does-good-handling-mean-in-the-context-of-cars
According to that, I was actually thinking of 'transient behaviour' and/or 'chassis balance' and/or 'breakaway behaviour'.
…none of which discussions I had with my E-class, but certainly did get into with my 2cv, 944 and GTi.
I dunno Kryton. I think it’s pretty much exactly the car the driver in me wants. It’s not a actually sporty, true, but it’s a comfortable estate that handles incredibly well, so it’s perfect for just flowing along the road. Even if you don’t go fast (as I don’t) it’s so massively pleasing and also very easy and relaxing. It literally left me grinning on some roads (still under the limit and driving safely!), and yet throughout the holiday noone complained about the ride or feeling sick or anything even as I cornered (a bit) quicker. That’s a pretty good achievement from Merc.
I suppose it all depends on how you want to drive your B roads; if you are revving hard and redlining then it’s not ideal but if you want flow and comfort, it’s spot on.
And let me clarify this is all at sensible and safe speeds, that’s the beauty of driving it, it just feels positive on windy roads without needing high speed.
You could have described my car - what is it about the Merc then thats not quite right with all that?
what is it about the Merc then thats not quite right with all that?
Well, at first I wasn't sure because the ride was a bit crashy as said, and we then took it on a caravan trip so when I first posted I hadn't done that much driving in it. But then I set the tyre pressures properly, that improved things a lot. And I got to drive some roads where it was really really good. I've learned how to use the transmission properly, which has helped a lot. Also I've run some of the good engine cleaner through it which also seems to be helping, perhaps removing a bit of coke from the turbo vanes helps the engine response.
But the main downside is the age and possibility of issues, but we've discussed that. And the fact it's not very economical.
I am however sold on the car - I might seriously consider a newer one in a few years; it's definitely made it to the top of my lottery-win list.
Re handling - 'good' is entirely subjective of course, and depends what you want to do. I've chucked it around roundabouts and it's just a bit 'meh' who cares. It's flat, but just too heavy to be driven like that. But it's on the flowing roads that it makes the most sense, and on motorways it gets better the faster you go. I don't even mind that it's the smaller engine, as it's actually plenty for this kind of usage. Ok I would quite like the extra smoothness of 6 cylinders, but I'm ok with it. The torque from 4cyl is impressive as is the response at low speeds, thanks to two turbos.
OK, although we have two different cars and mine is a '17, again your last para is very similar to how I'd describe mine. I think - as widely reported - the BM torque/gearbox ratio matching are pretty much top of the class in that era so I'd get lucky there. Also mine has non runflat tyres which having had a BM with runfla§ts before is a world of difference if your's does have?
Like you, if ever buying a £70k became inconsequential to me then I'd love own a bigger cruise-ier car. The thing I've found that I value is the ability to be wafted around relatively stress free in a nice environment, which for my car is going to be a key buying factor in the future.
I am sure I don't have run flats, I had to look up the markings to check. I have decided I'll change wheels when these tyres get down to about 3-4mm or so, which hopefully will be in a while.
I did it, I broke my promise to myself. I've ordered engine mounts....
I've rung Merc 3 times to try and book in the diagnostic, and I even went to see them and left my details but they don't seem interested.
Ooh, they’re going to run a level 3 diagnostic? This is moving from Hitchikers to Star Trek! When it’s all fixed do we get Star Wars- A New Hope?
I’ve rung Merc 3 times to try and book in the diagnostic, and I even went to see them and left my details but they don’t seem interested.
"Isn't this that guy from that Singletrack thread?, quick hide"
😀 (Sorry)
Do car dealers have the equivalent of a ‘pubwatch’ scheme where they share information on known troublemakers?😂
Thought had crossed my mind!
Anyway they called back. So the parts are on order but if I can get Merc to back me up I'll return them.
I did it, I broke my promise to myself. I’ve ordered engine mounts….
In my head you just undo two nuts, jack the engine up enough to slip the engine mount out then drop the new one in and lower back down.
In reality I would jack the engine up, then realise the sump was squashed flat and order a new sump pan, then spend the afternoon trying to clean the oil slick up.
Hah. Yes it is apparently one bolt on the top and two on the bottom then it just pulls out. On the 4cyl you can undo the top bolts from the top of the engine with a long extension and a universal joint. On the V8 AMG ones you have to drop the subframe and remove part of the exhaust apparently.
'Drop the subframe' you say...
Isn't that how all this started?
Are you fitting your motor mounts yourself or washing your hands of the whole car thing as you've moved on?
Erm...
On the V8 AMG ones you have to drop the subframe and remove part of the exhaust apparently.
Yeah, I know, I know...
It was just your ref to sub frames. I thought you might want to keep quiet bearing in mind the flack/bleating quotient recently...
Anyway, DIY or garage for motor mounts?
@matt_outandabout you know I don't have an AMG V8 right?
@boblo DIY. But I can stop any time I want, honestly.
DIY. But I can stop any time I want, honestly.
It will be fine,just make sure you have the Passat ready as a backup 😉
Erm…
You are beyond hope 😂
Next week.
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Nah, won’t be next week- he’ll wait until the next holiday is imminent!
I wish I had an engine hoist and the room to use it. Would've saved me a day or so with that flywheel job. If I did, I'd have probably had the Passat engine and tranny out for a refurb years ago!
you can rent a hoist, but a brace will be enough for the mounts on most cars.
Or buy one on fleabay, and then sell it on when you're done.
Nothing to add,I would just like to thank bear for his work 😉
you can rent a hoist, but a brace will be enough for the mounts on most cars.
Yes. but I haven't got the space to work with it.
Nothing to add,I would just like to thank bear for his work 😉
I don't think enough credit has been given for that picture, such subtle detail 😉
I don’t think enough credit has been given for that picture, such subtle detail
After a slightly stalkerish fashion...
still have the occasional nightmare about the Capt America jersey. [shudders]
Fine work on the photo.
Nothing wrong the jersey, it was the tights...
I have a dust shield behind my back right brake disk that is touching and going swish swish swish swish, really annoying, had this fixed ages ago and it's back, took it back to the garage today thinking since they have charged me for pulling a rusty bit of rim off previously they will probably do it for free, bout 20 seconds into my delicate negotiation it appears not, miserable bstds, swished all the way home again.
Anyone know if a Subaru Forrester has dust shields that come off from the back? or is it a hub off job?
I had this problem, I just bent them back into place.
Just bend it back as mols says.
Nothing wrong the jersey, it was the tights…
You had to go there, didn't you... [shoves breakfast away]
I had this problem, I just bent them back into place.
I had a mechanic do that when it was in for a wheel bearing, came back, then had another cut a rusty bit off it when it was in for an mot, still there, I think there is something stuck down in it.
[IMG] 
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Mol's car....
That's molgrips going to negotiate his warranty.
Took it into Mercedes, cos Trade Centre Wales thought it needed a software update. However Merc let me demonstrate the problem to the mechanic (which TCW wouldn't do), and he heard and felt the rattle and agreed it wasn't right. He also agreed it could well be engine mounts.
So apparently I'm not imagining it!
We're waiting...
Stirrer.... 😃
Merc said engine mounts a strong possibility but they couldn't diagnose it in the hour they had that was being paid for.
I bought some mounts anyway, and it's obvious that the one in the car that I can see is about 2cm lower than the one in the box even when I load it up by standing on it. So quite confident now that they need changing.
I jacked it up to have a go myself but on this car the steering rack needs dropping. Not too bad because it's electric so can simply be unplugged and removed, and it's on the bottom of the engine. But you also have to disconnect the steering column and I couldn't see how to do that, so I gave up, remembered my promise to myself and I am going to book it in later. I doubt I'll get any money out of TCW.
Haynes manual not available for this car.
Haynes manual not available for this car.
Phew! What a relief... 😁
Oh, I don’t know.
I was quite looking forward to photographic evidence of the “…and simply remove the steering rack” bit 😂
Have you done the engine mount test thats on youtube?
Still think your rattle on switch off is either the echaust heat sheild or orp on the alternator packing up
I bought some mounts anyway, and it’s obvious that the one in the car that I can see is about 2cm lower than the one in the box even when I load it up by standing on it.
Typical dry weight of a 2.0l Diesel Mercedes engine is north of 160kg without ancillary parts, so yeah, you probably wouldn’t see the same result.
Yes but that's 160kg over more than one mount.....
Have you done the engine mount test thats on youtube?
Yeah, inconclusive. Most tests are about showing up total failures, but it seems that these can just deteriorate without a major failure and my mileage is about right for this to become noticeable.
Yes but that’s 160kg over more than one mount
Yes which is 80kg per engine mount, assuming the gearbox one is taking the gearbox load, and I weigh a bit more than 80kg.
Still think your rattle on switch off is either the echaust heat sheild or orp on the alternator packing up
Yeah it sounds like a heat shield or something but that'd be making a sound based on excessive vibration, which would be caused by something such as engine mounts. There's noticeable vibration on idle and you really can feel the whole engine moving when it starts and stops - the heat-shield rattle is in addition to that.
Hmm, quoted £450-600 by the specialist, parts and labour. Ouch.
Time to get the spanners out then Molls.
Don't forget to post plenty of pictures 🙂
£600 gets you a car that you enjoy. DIY get's you a car where you'll continue to worry about.
£450-600 by the specialist, parts and labour.
You know what the parts cost, so you can estimate how long they think the job will take, and if that's significantly longer than what you thought was involved, there must be a snag somewhere.
£600 gets you a car that you enjoy. DIY get’s you a car where you’ll continue to worry about.
This ^^. Although it's only £400 cos the parts I bought were £200. And that's the high end estimate, might only cost £250. They won't fit my parts, but there's a no-fee return policy.
You know what the parts cost, so you can estimate how long they think the job will take, and if that’s significantly longer than what you thought was involved, there must be a snag somewhere.
Well I couldn't find parts in any of the usual places so I went to Autodoc, they're Lemförder and I think they came from Germany. The specialist get them from Merc so at least we know they'll definitely be right, and they're a bit more expensive but not alarmingly so.
It seems that trying to buy OEM parts elsewhere can be a bit of a grey area. OEM shocks for the Passat were apparently made by Sachs, so I got some Sachs from ECP and I cross-checked the part numbers printed on them from Sachs' own catalogue for the car. However when fitted they were much firmer even compared to the car when I got it so they were clearly a different spec.
There will be differences in those that are made for the OEM & aftermarket as they need to recoup the lower price the OEM forces on them.
I used to work for a Tier 1 OEM supplying Rover; Land Rover; Jaguar; VW. It was at the time BMW just bought Rover & BMW were going through the parts catalog comparing Rover to BMW pre-acquisition supplier prices. If a company supplied the same item to both, they wanted to know why the Rover price was higher and what retrospective credit they could expect.
Suppliers would cut prices to premium marques so they could boast they are a Tier 1 supplier to BM/Merc/Audi etc when chasing business from lesser brands and load their price/change quality to recoup the cost of working with the fancy marques.
@molgrips ECP Sachs parts are totally different to catalogue spec, I had someone from Sachs UK tell me that when I enquired about springs for my bus.
Ah this is good news, if Mercedes say £600 it should be £100 or so at a a normal decent garage, result.
There will be differences in those that are made for the OEM & aftermarket as they need to recoup the lower price the OEM forces on them.
So my Lemförder parts might actually be a better bet than the ones from Merc?
if Mercedes say £600 it should be £100 or so at a a normal decent garage, result.
No, it's £450-600 at the indie specialist, using parts sourced from Mercedes.
Hmm, quoted £450-600 by the specialist, parts and labour. Ouch.
How much!!!! Do it yourself, what can possibly go wrong......
How much!!!! Do it yourself, what can possibly go wrong……
do you want him taking your car to be to bits?
do you want him taking your car to be to bits?
For comedy value on this thread? Yes, absolutely.
Yep - we're only on 16pages. This Mercedes death rattle still has potential to overtake the Brexit/Trump threads.
@squirrelking - now when you say bus, do you mean Dub or similar, or do you mean Bristol VR or AEC Routemaster? 🤔
I dunno what sort of comedy you're expecting. I'm not a bad mechanic.
I think we'll be the judge of that Molls.
Get taking it apart and post plenty of pictures 😉
We know you are a decent mechanic Molgrips - but you do have a propensity to take on the wrong task at the wrong time.
Its lighthearted joshing not character assassination.
Only thing I'd say is see if you disconnect the rack and move anything can you reset the steering angle sensor or is that a Star job.
Other than that I'd say crack on.
Just make sure you can get a hoist or at least a good trolley jack in with room to jiggle the block. I doubt you'll need much
Got any pics of the new mounts? Are they just on m12 bolts?
I dunno what sort of comedy you’re expecting. I’m not a bad mechanic.
I think it's the timing of things that is comedy - I half expect you to undertake a Haynes 5spanner rating job on the Merc the day before you move house/take wife in labour to hospital/go on family staycation etc
Only thing I’d say is see if you disconnect the rack and move anything can you reset the steering angle sensor or is that a Star job.
Hmm good point. The official Merc instructional video on YT for this car doesn't mention it, but I'll have another search.
I think it’s the timing of things that is comedy – I half expect you to undertake a Haynes 5spanner rating job on the Merc the day before you move house/take wife in labour to hospital/go on family staycation etc
That's fair. It's the kind of thing I'd do. And have done. However it's the other way round this time. I need the car on the 15th and the garage could only fit me in on the 14th. This way I have way more time.
It's happening anyway. Managed to get the low profile front end on the ramps with the aid of some blocks of wood.
TJ has it 100% molly - this thread always brightens my day! Kettle’s on and fresh packet of rich tea opened 😀
How do you feel about live streaming Molls?
We need pics