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Yes, a much easier fix than complicated gearbox gubbins.
I take it you are going to contact the seller about this & see if you can get some goodwill out of them for the repair cost?
It's under warranty, both from the dealer and the RAC cos I took that out as well.
The question is if I want to get it fixed or return it since as I understand it I have the right to do either.
I managed to find a Passat that suited me - 3 years old 30k miles for £15k. So there's that. But only one and it'll probably go in days.
Take it back imo, the noise, new tyres, cost of maintenance etc it all adds up to a no.
They'll probably complain a lot if I try. I am not good at this stuff.
the trouble with warranty is that nothings actually failed - the RAC one quotes 'if your car breaks down' - at the moment its clearly drivable. I recon those abs faults are a red herring - it was probably towed at some point which can cause all sorts of wierdness. Even if an autobox didn't know exactly when to shift, it wouldn't affect the shift itself (just make it happen at odd times). Get yourself a handheld odbc reader from amazon (£15) and use it to read/clear the codes yourself and see if they come back in.
FWIW toyotas have 10 year/100,000mile warrantys as long as you get them serviced by toyota - this applies to older models too. £6k would get you a 7 year old/60,000 mile avensis with 3 years piece of mind built in.
I recon those abs faults are a red herring – it was probably towed at some point which can cause all sorts of wierdness
Possible. They cleared them and are now test-driving it to try and get them to come back. But I think that it is possible that the transmission needs to know the road speed to determine how much clutch slip to apply which is where the issue seems to be.
ABS Sensors have caused similar apparent gearbox problems on my 3 Series automatic, but there's also usually a visual indicator that it's sensing a fault. In my case, that's a flashing DSC light to show that it's picking up a significant difference in wheel speed across the axle which doesn't match the yaw sensor in the steering. If the fault is intermittent the car goes back to normal, but will store the fault code. If it happens enough times, it will disable the DSC. If it still has problems with the sensors, the gearbox changes will start to become slow to occur and harsh when they do. The final step is that the car will place the box into safe mode where it parks the gearbox in 3rd or 4th gear and wont change at all until the fault is cleared.
My automatic has been Megaflushed at 70k miles and is now at 110k miles.
I'd be wary of thinking 4 new ABS sensors will fix it, but it could just be that if the car is trying to drive about in the wrong gear.
Well they cleared it, and the car is in the limbo land between spot on and definitely an issue. I would not expect the dealer to give me the time of day if I were to go back with it.
The only definite thing left to complain about is the rattle when you go from P or N into D. This is repeatable fortunately, it does it every time. The issue is that I don't really know what it's meant to be like. Gear shifts are still a bit stuttery at certain loads too. These are the kinds of issues that could indicate something significant wrong but not currently severe enough to guarantee success if I tried to return it, I think.
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/
TL:DR - you have reasonable grounds but should have stopped driving it and informed the dealer, as everyone told you to. Get it back, it sounds like a whole bunch of problems and TBH not worth £13k. You're effectively playing parts darts right now and the more you bugger about with it the more ammo you are giving them to deny a refund.
TL:DR – you have reasonable grounds but should have stopped driving it and informed the dealer, as everyone told you to.
I was on holiday!
You’re effectively playing parts darts right now and the more you bugger about with it the more ammo you are giving them to deny a refund.
I haven't bought any parts, I'm gathering ammo to take to them. You aren't reading the thread carefully enough are you?
You have alreaady reset ABS sensors at another garage, thats what I'm getting at regarding the parts darts. You've messed about with it before giving them a chance to look at it, what do you think they're going to say in repsonse to that?
Yes you were on holiday (that obviously couldn't be helped) but you never informed the dealer and still seem to be swithering over whether to do so, your case is eroding more the longer you leave this. I get it, you don't want the confrontation, my dad was exactly the bloody same. But it's a pup, most agree on that and it's only going to piss you off regardless of how much you convince yourself otherwise. You can spend £13K better elsewhere and you don't even have holiday pressure to worry about now.
You have alreaady reset ABS sensors at another garage, thats what I’m getting at regarding the parts darts.
I didn't do that - they did it for me, I wasn't consulted. I do have the original printout though. And stored codes can be stored from a long time ago. If the codes don't come back, there's no current fault, so there's nothing to fix or complain about.
your case is eroding more the longer you leave this
I have a better case now I have had a mechanic look at it. If I'd have just gone back and whined they'd laugh me out of the shop. I'm going to call them tomorrow.
I don’t really know what it’s meant to be like
Buttery smooth, it’s a merc. I’d expect it to be like my 5 series, you don’t notice it shift unless you really pay attention.
and the car is in the limbo land between spot on and definitely an issue
It’s like a metaphor for life
Makes you think…
Just take it back and say the gearbox is borked, you are not happy and can they take a look at it.
The holiday thing is not that important is it? If it was perfect when you bought it and crap 2 weeks later you could take it back right?
Sounds unusual for them all to be faulty?
Mercedes - not unusual for many things on a MB to be faulty IME. Had some great ones, and some very pesky ones in the past.
Thankfully, most of the pesky ones were service-day cars whose hire was probably only a small fraction of the heinous service costs. Rattles - check; dodgy gear changes - check; numerous 'warning' lights - check; the list goes on.
Dealership biscuit selection was good though...
The fault was 'implausible signal' which could be a fault or it could be some other condition. Lots of things could cause that. As said, it could be something like the car having been towed (also not good though!) or it could be something like say, the accelerometers for the ESP are actually faulty and they tell the car it's moving but the wheels tell it it's not. Or vice versa, and it could be that it only shows up if you slide all four wheels in the snow or something. VAG cars can store a date with the code, although it's often inaccurate. I'd have liked to see what the date on those codes was - it's not on the Autologic printout.
Gear changes are actually improving to be fair. I took my luxury-car-owning neighbour out in it and it was very well behaved so maybe it's a case of adaptation somehow or maybe simply clearing those ABS codes helped or even triggered some other adaptation.
I found out that the RAC warranty is not refundable if you sell or otherwise get rid of the car, unless it's written off.
So even if I handed it back I'd be a grand out. So given that, my anxiety on the subject and the borderline nature of my claim I gave up and booked it in for a fix. I told them about the transmission and it may still turn out to be buggered, but I suspect that it's just going to be written down as one of those things.
The warranty is most likely worthless anyway. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/thewarrantygroup.com
I used to be a claims manager for a car warranty firm.
The key word is sudden and unforeseen mechanical failure. Make sure any diagnosis avoids words like corrosion, degradation, wear etc.
You'll also find investigation isn't covered.
Does a proper merc garage think it's not right or is it in your head that it's not as good as it should be.
I think we could write this into a great nail biting TV miniseries.
The warranty is most likely worthless anyway.
Quite possible. But it's too late now.
Does a proper merc garage think it’s not right or is it in your head that it’s not as good as it should be.
Dunno but I'm going to have to go and talk to one just to be sure. More jerky shifting today on a drive around town.
Forget the warranty thing, you had one already, which was probably just the same statuary rights as a consumer, if it doesn't work as expected you can return it for a refund, them giving you a warranty makes it surprisingly hard to do that.
So where we at? have you changed the gearbox oil yet?
Have a google of conductor plate faults on the 7G gearbox. Speed sensor fault codes can be a symptom.
If there are fault codes stored, clearly this an as issue predating your purchase. You shouldn’t have had them cleared, the car should have gone back to the selling dealer to sort (or at least not proceed until they/warranty company agree to pick up the bill).
If it turns out to be an expensive fix, third party repairs will make it more difficult for you to get resolution from the dealer.
I found out that the RAC warranty is not refundable if you sell or otherwise get rid of the car, unless it’s written off.
So even if I handed it back I’d be a grand out. So given that, my anxiety on the subject and the borderline nature of my claim I gave up and booked it in for a fix. I told them about the transmission and it may still turn out to be buggered, but I suspect that it’s just going to be written down as one of those things.
I really don't understand why the car isn't back with the original dealer for fix or reject. The whole point of paying the dealer premium is the peace of mind that if something reveals itself quickly you have recourse.
If you reject, surely the warranty cost is then reimbursable?
I really don’t understand why the car isn’t back with the original dealer for fix or reject.
It's booked in with them for a repair.
I didn't feel I had a good enough case to reject it. They would fight tooth and nail against it and I haven't got the stomach for taking on a load of slippery used car salesmen in a borderline case.
You paid for a warranty from a dealer? Bastards!
They are fixing it for free though? If so that's a good enough result.
I didn’t feel I had a good enough case to reject it.
"Hi, I bought this 2 weeks ago, and the gearbox doesn't seem to be right since I've driven it. Here are the keys, phone me when it's fixed. If you can't do that, here's my bank details for my money back"
is the entire conversation. Stop trying to figure out what's wrong with it. It either goes or doesn't. End
“Hi, I bought this 2 weeks ago, and the gearbox doesn’t seem to be right since I’ve driven it. Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed. If you can’t do that, here’s my bank details for my money back”
is the entire conversation. Stop trying to figure out what’s wrong with it. It either goes or doesn’t. End
👏
This is Moly though ; son of TJ with added angst 😉
I didn’t feel I had a good enough case to reject it. They would fight tooth and nail against it and I haven’t got the stomach for taking on a load of slippery used car salesmen in a borderline case
The onus is on them to prove it's OK, as stated above it's fix it or I reject it.
Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed. If you can’t do that, here’s my bank details for my money back”
They'll say "well we think it's fine".
Then they'll refuse to take it back and there'll be a protracted battle. You think they'd just let me walk out with my money back? Have you read how vague the legislation is?
Here are the keys, phone me when it’s fixed.
I did that, it's booked in on the 20th.
The onus is on them to prove it’s OK
Prove to whom? What's the process for this? Whose opinion matters more?
They’ll say “well we think it’s fine”.
How can they when a few days ago you were convinced that major parts of the internals of the autobox were hell bent on becoming external components?
How can they when a few days ago you were convinced that major parts of the internals of the autobox were hell bent on becoming external components?
I think you've misunderstand. If there were something dramatically and obviously wrong then there'd be no question, like some horrible noises or lights on etc. However whilst I am fairly sure something isn't right, it's working well enough to allow them to claim I'm being too fussy. So it's up to me to prove that which is what I'm attempting to do. The first step is to try and establish how smooth it is meant to be in the first place since I've never driven one of these before.
I shouldn't have bothered with the first diagnostic place, but I am still booked into the better place on Friday. They have STAR which will give me the details I need.
The first step is to try and establish how smooth it is meant to be in the first place since I’ve never driven one of these before.
Can the dealership provide you with a similar vehicle for you to benchmark against? If that one drives in the same way then you could accept it's a foible of the gearbox and not just you being over picky.
Well that's why I'll go to the dedicated Merc place on Friday. I'm told they are enthusiasts and very good so I'll accept their opinion and experience.
If there were something dramatically and obviously wrong then there’d be no question, like some horrible noises
On this thread a few days ago you said:
Pretty sure the flywheel is toast.
– Shudder when start/stop operates
– Shudder or rattle when stopping from a slow crawl i.e. when parking
Noticeable vibration when driving at 70 unladen in the motorway, especially up hills
None of that lot seems to be you being "too fussy" The car sounds like it's got some major faults. How can the garage say "It's fine"?
Well that’s why I’ll go to the dedicated Merc place on Friday. I’m told they are enthusiasts and very good so I’ll accept their opinion and experience.
Are you taking it to an independent garage or back to the selling dealer?
If the former, are the independent garage tasked with obtaining a diagnosis?
If it is going to an indie (again) have you actually contacted the selling dealer yet? You should at least call them - just say 'I don't think the gearbox is right, hasn't been since day 1 but due to work/holiday this is the first chance I've had to look at it properly. I've found a good indie with dealer level diagnostics. Are you ok for me to get them to take a look or should I bring it to you?'
The path you're setting off on is likely to result in all costs landing squarely at your door. If it is borked, and the dealer gets a whiff of third party involvement before they've been given the chance to take a look, they are quite likely to tell you to foxtrot oscar.
However, you might find they are more than happy for an indie to diagnose/advise on the issues. To have the full weight of your consumer rights behind you, the seller must be given the opportunity to repair.
Are you taking it to an independent garage or back to the selling dealer?
I took it to a diagnostics place first, because the indie could only get me in on Friday which is the last working day of the 28 days. They gave me a list of errors, so I called the dealer and told them the problems and they are going to look at it on the 20th. The list of errors did not include any current transmission errors but did include some on the aircon.
I'm taking it to a second indie for diagnostic and an opinion on Friday, these are the Merc experts and they have STAR which gives the best diagnostic info, and the mechanics there will give me their opinion on the transmission. If they agree that it's not right I will call the dealer and record this. Then we will have a chat on the 20th about what they plan to do about it.
No work has been carried out, only diagnostics, which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.
No work has been carried out, only diagnostics, which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.
And a load of codes reset.
At risk of repeating everyone - take it back! You are eroding any case you have any time someone else prods it. You don't need to build a case until AFTER they reject you and had first refusal at repair.
They also refused you a test drive which, from what I can see, was already allowed in Wales so have double ****ed you. Most likely because the guy knew it was a shitter.
which is exactly what they advised me to do during the sale.
Say what? Did they know something was wrong or you suspected it during the Sales process? If a Salesman had advised me to take diagnostics I'd have said " no thanks, you do it and show me the results before I hand over anything..."
I did that, it’s booked in on the 20th.
That's not very quick for a problem, they should have said bring it down and let a mechanic test drive it.
You are at least now back with the seller, turn the problem over to them, replacing sensors and cleaning contact points etc is a lot of farting about to then discover other problems, by handing it to them they now have that journey, which is as it should be.
You do take ages though, I'd have been back down there 10 mins after the first sign of problems and requesting a free sun glasses holder for my troubles.
You spent £13k in buying from a car supermarket who wouldn't allow you a test drive; why not would have been my first question to them.
Fid you check the car history - know your car website, for example.
You think there are problems but appear to be reluctant to confront the car supermarket.
Instead of that you're going to dealers/indy specialists and incurring costs when you should be at the car supermarket making it their problem.
Get a grip and confront them in person; check up on your legal rights.
You come across as forthright when you post on various threads - adopt the same attitude with the supermarket unless you're happy to live with an underperforming car and aren't bothered about getting vfm for your £13k outlay.
The actions you’re taking will mean the people who sold you the car can walk away.
At risk of repeating everyone – take it back!
What do you think they'll say? I've no idea why you think they'll just go 'oh ok then'. They'll drive it and go 'it's fine', of course.
check up on your legal rights
I have. I have to demonstrate there's something significantly wrong with it. That's what I'm going to do.
Say what? Did they know something was wrong or you suspected it during the Sales process?
No it was a formality - they said that there's a 28 day warranty so it makes sense to get it checked out. I didn't expect them to have done a full scan on every car - it'd have been nice if they did, but no big deal since I had the opportunity to do it myself which is what I've done.