Don’t know so much I’m skint & waiting for pay day. I get a lot more than that and I have no mortgage, no car loan & I didn’t have council tax to pay this month. Think I’m just shit at being careful with money.
WTF do you spend it all on? thats a lot of avocado toast.
I do like the way that some people say that someone on £50k should be able to afford £125 a month to give to the Scottish Government. It just sounds like the politics of envy, spending someone else's earnings.
And whilst I'm here, the SNP is and has been for the last decade the Scottish Government. the two are synonymous. To split the two as different organisations is being blind to the fact. The SNPs record in government is not good, too many indicators heading the wrong way. As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job. They can (and do) blame Westminster, but the rest of the UK has had the same austerity and seems to have done better.
The SNP is now stuck. It realises that it has a limited time to make the case for independence before the general population get bored of them doing it. At some point they will lose control of the Scottish Parliament (if you are the dominant party there is only one way to go) at which time independence will go on the back burner. The forthcoming trials (plus the recent resignation) do not help the image of the SNP. SO the SNP must act now - hence all the noise. Westminster, in particular No. 10 hold all the cards.
^ squirrel
@boardinbob it would take hours to answer all your points as most of them are based on misconceptions about how the Scottish education system works or based on being a client in that system 20+ years ago rather than a provider today.
If I have a spare hour later I'll try to correct to some of your more obvious errors. 🙂
Totally agree with your appraisal sadmadalan.
Sadmadalan
Unfortunately you only have the misinformation from the union press to go on. In many measures the Scottish government are doing a decent job and have done what they can to mitigate the ills of austerity. Look at the link I put for the other side of the story.
The SNPs record in government is not good, too many indicators heading the wrong way. As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job
Actually the unionist parties spend much more time talking about the SNP talking about independence than the SNP do, most performance metrics are improving and are better than in england, we have no bedroom tax, we have lower waiting times for A&E, we have a lowering crime rate etc etc. Read the national link ( accepting its own bias)
They are not perfect by any means and I think after 10+ years in power they like all governments are beggining to run out of steam and need to be refreshed but compared to the dysfunctional mess in Westminster they are so much better
I’m saying the SNP could possibly exchange what they espouse as control by a third party for possibly the same situation within the EU
Yep, Scotland in the EU is exactly like being in the UK. Who can forget the EU telling the UK they couldn't have a referendum to leave and the long, drawn-out legal battles that followed.
If you can’t run a family & home on £50k you’re doing something far wrong.
That’s a lot of money and leaves plenty of wriggle room for modest luxuries
I'm not saying you can't run a family home on that. But you won't have lots left over, so to my point, you would miss 125 quid a month.
I have plenty of mates who have family incomes around that, and once they have paid the morgage, paid off their car loan (and they don't have 50k audis before you assume they do), and paid for all family essentials and treats for kids they don't have much left over.
I don't know how much you earn but I'm sure if you cut back on all the things you didn't really need then you could probably spare money to pay extra tax as well. That's not to say you wouldn't miss it. Fact is people don't work hard to mearly get by..
To Boardinbob...
Several of your points seem to be about the degree to which the Scottish government is responsible for the problems in education. Some of the issues I outlined are SQA issues but ultimately the Scottish government is responsible for educational policy. The buck stops with them and the SNP have been in power long enough that it stops at their door.
There are also several points about what happens in the 'real world' just because shit practice is common in the 'real world' doesn't mean we should allow it in our schools.
Better is a subjective term. Overall exam results fluctuate by small percentages. What were they like 10 years ago?
Exam results only fluctuate by small percentages because the SQA adjust the grade boundaries so that exam results only fluctuate by small percentages...
Is the exam board the SNP? Why is setting the exam and the curriculum bad? Changes to courses and exams after the courses have started? Sounds like a pretty good preparation for the real world.
Taking the above in order.
No but the SQA are accountable to the Scottish government see above. Setting both is bad because it encourages teaching to the exam. Just because goal posts get moved 'in the real world' doesn't mean that's what we should be doing to school pupils.
How so? Has something changed from my day when, for example a University said you need 4 B grades at higher? Are the qualifications out of line with the demands of higher education?
The stronger pupils going on to higher education are still relatively well served by the system. Those who are borderline uni material or less academic are poorly served.
Why not?
Because of how they are assessed. N5 is a rigorous, externally assessed award with exam and coursework elements. N4 is entirely internally assessed at a minimum competence standard with open book assessments and multiple remediation opportunities. It's meant to be the same standard as the old General award but it's a country mile easier. In the old system everyone got a go at the higher level (general/credit or foundation/general) but that doesn't happen now, their one or the other so that aspirational element which was one of the best elements in standard grade is gone.
Has been going on since my time at school and probably long before that
No, this never used to happen. You're confusing it with adjusting grade boundaries I mentioned above. What I'm talking about is fundamentally changing what a pupil needs to write in an exam to get a mark part way through the year or after they've sat the exam. If you told teachers 15 years ago this would happen they would have laughed you out the room but it's pretty common now.
When I was doing my highers back in the 1990s, our course material was photocopies from Carluke Highschool. The reason given was they were one of the first schools to implement Highers in Scotland. How come I managed to get 8 highers back in the 90s with no national level materials?
Your materials were stamped Carluke high school but they were almost certainly centrally produced by teachers who had been seconded to either national or local authority level for months to do this. That's how it was done when SG and the revised higher were introduced. None of that happened with the current qualifications. Some authorities managed to allocate a few days for this but most schools had to just do their own thing. Carluke HS may have piloted some quals but this was done very carefully with a lot of support. None of the new quals were tested or piloted in any way, they just rolled them out across the whole country effectively using a whole cohort of pupils as guinea pigs.
I really have no idea what your on about. The decent bits of Glasgow / Edinburgh / Dundee / Aberdeen / Perth are on the expensive side of the UK average housing costs wise. Newcastle is not a cheap place to live either. London, parts of SE & the home counties are a bit of an outlier.
Who said anything about the "nice bits"? I live on an ex council scheme where houses typically sell for around 90k, its not that bad but certainly not Jordanhill or Morningside. I'd be looking at doubling the mortgage, easily, to find somewhere equivalent in the south of England (anywhere, not just the SE). Suffolk all the way round to Somerset.
Of course, these figures don’t include council tax, which hasn’t been subject to the same rises as in England and Wales, so there is an offset there to consider.
You're not allowed to consider cost of living!
How do you know what someone can and can’t afford? 50k is alot if you are a single person with no dependencies. 50k isn’t all that much if you are the sole earner in a family of 4 with a decent sized morgage to pay.
I earn about that as it happens so yes, I know perfectly well what you can afford on those wages. It's all about living within your means, my last car cost £6k a few years back, is over 11 years old and is still in good nick. I don't buy 5k carbon bikes on the never ever and still manage to fund my daughters ice skating.
I do like the way that some people say that someone on £50k should be able to afford £125 a month to give to the Scottish Government. It just sounds like the politics of envy, spending someone else’s earnings.
Nope, I'm in that bracket and quite happy to pay.
As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job.
You what? How would you know if you don't even live here? FFS...
Now you may think from all that I'm an SNP fanboi but I can assure you I am far from it. Their centralisation of the Fire Service and Police Service is a nonsense and I have little love for the CfE from what I know of it. But some of the mental gymnastics going on here are just ridiculous.
If Scotland becomes independent they can run ads to high flying professionals boasting of the high tax offset by cheap schemey housing. Wonderful.
I'm in the process of relocating England to Scotland and pound for pound you get better housing in the north of England than central belt of Scotland. So my housing costs and tax go up, unless I downgrade to a smaller house or rougher area.
As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job.
You are indeed a special one.
@spin having my first experience of N5 biology assignments. I like the way the E&O's for CFE science does not mention learning anywhere.
There is such a disconnect between the SQA and actual teaching. Far too many changes year after year so we don't get to see the actual effect it has. The tricks some schools use to get up the top of the exam lists is immoral and goes against the standards for registration.
OK, we've heard how awful the Scottish education system is.
Now please could someone explain to me why it is better democracy for Scotland to be controlled by the country next door and not by its own independent parliament?
And as for our "deficit", when we don't have Westminster allocating a huge chunk of the UK's deficit to Scotland, maybe we'll be better able to control that too.
I don't know, are there any fridges or sofas in the front gardens? That's normally a giveaway.
The tricks some schools use to get up the top of the exam lists is immoral and goes against the standards for registration.
They've created a system that rewards careful dishonesty.
The response to my first post made me think of one of the major issues with changing all this. Basically, many of the problems are relatively small on their own or fairly technical issues that the general public doesn't really understand the importance of.
I probably didn't do a great job of trying to present that to a non teacher audience but to do that well would require a lot of thought.
It's been said many times but the best way to get rid of the SNP is vote for independence.
OK, we’ve heard how awful the Scottish education system is.
Now please could someone explain to me why it is better democracy for Scotland to be controlled by the country next door and not by its own independent parliament?
Two separate issues really but not everyone can separate them. I can separate them so I vote for the pro independence party that hasn't ****ed our education system.
If you want a stick to beat the SNP with education is a right good choice.
With the track record of government in the devolved areas they already control there is no reason to think independence would mean any better govt of the rest.
Random example. Spent over a billion on a new Forth bridge which is still only 2 lanes each way so it hasn't relieved congestion. You would think 1.35Bn would at least remove a bottleneck.
TL;DR - didn't see much mentioned about national insurance.
Only accounts for a minimum of an extra 60% on people's tax is all.
Are we also assuming everyone is on PAYE? Were are the posts about other people's professions that us accountants can give our 2ps worth?
With the track record of government in the devolved areas they already control there is no reason to think independence would mean any better govt of the rest.
Do you mean Scots in general or the SNP in particular?
Because independence would mean someone else could have a go.
sadmadalan
The SNP is now stuck. It realises that it has a limited time to make the case for independence before the general population get bored of them doing it.
Lol.
I name this ship, "Yesterday".
May God bless her and all who sail in her
@spin having my first experience of N5 biology assignments. I like the way the E&O’s for CFE science does not mention learning anywhere.
Good illustration of how impenetrable the course documents have become: we have a probationer teacher this year and there's a few times she's said something along the lines of 'is that what the SQA want? Because I've read all the documents and I'd never have worked that out.'
When I went through the training/probation process with Standard Grade I had no such issues.
I get 50k a year, living in Scotland, working for a company in London.
The only reason I get that much is that the Scottish Government paid £5k for me to go back to uni and get my (second) MSc <- something I couldn't afford due to my wages working part time for a charity.
You can bitch all you want, or you can take a look at what's on offer, knuckle down and do the work and use it to get ahead.
I guess I'll probably pay that £5k off in increased tax payments eventually.
But you know, we have a shit system and you'll never learn anything and as soon as you get rich you'll pick up your kilty skirts and move to Kent. Aye, away to ****.
What I’ve noticed being a student teacher is the amount of information that different schools present for each course. This is particularly evident in BGE. Pupils at one school should be getting taught the same as another
WTF do you spend it all on? thats a lot of avocado toast.
I’m just crap at conserving money.
Anyway I’m not complaining about the wee bit extra tax I am not a self centred Tory I would rather have a fairer society.
As for Scotland being governed to a poorer standard than England what planet are you in to believe that nonsense. Scottish education may not be perfect but it seems pretty good to me. I’d rather divert the cash we are paying for HS2 & Trident into education & health but Scotland has no choice. The health service performs better in Scotland though I would like to see if better funded.
Pupils at one school should be getting taught the same as another
But one of the key principles of CfE in its first incarnation was that we had freedom to do what best suited our pupils needs. They backtracked on that when they realised that freedom equalled inconsistency. I've now been in this game long enough to realise that what the old farts told me on probation was true: that every new initiative in education is an equal and opposite reaction to the thing that went before.
Cor, sorry about this all. Can't even remember what she said to prompt me to start the thread as drink had been taken.
I wouldn’t worry, however reading this thread has been both depressing and amusing in equal measure, so as a spectator sport the topic has lots going for it.
And like all political organisations, the SNP is habitually crap at choosing a competent leader.
And like all political organisations, the SNP is habitually crap at choosing a competent leader.
Love her or loathe her you have to acknowledge Sturgeon's ability as a politician.
No. No I don’t.
Then I'd suggest that perhaps your prejudices are coming into play. I'm not a fan boy by any stretch but I've rarely seen her caught out, unprepared or on the back foot.
Yeah, fair comment. And I do find her just... annoying! 😉
Sturgeon is head and shoulders above anyone else it terms of political ability
Yep, Scotland in the EU is exactly like being in the UK. Who can forget the EU telling the UK they couldn’t have a referendum to leave and the long, drawn-out legal battles that followed.
Who could forget the 'Once in a lifetime' 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum. If the SNP are such astute politicians, then perhaps they should have had more attention to detail regards having future referendums. Again to the OP point, shoulder some responsibility towards the situation they find themselves in now due to their lack of foresight. They agreed to referendum conditions, but they would rather bleat, moan and blame Westminster for their current situation.
Then I’d suggest that perhaps your prejudices are coming into play. I’m not a fan boy by any stretch but I’ve rarely seen her caught out, unprepared or on the back foot.
You should watch the November 2019 Andrew Neil interview. Good examples of her being caught out, unprepared and on the back foot.
Yeah, fair comment. And I do find her just… annoying! 😉
Aye, best to base your vote on who doesn't annoy you.
They agreed to referendum conditions
Where was this condition detailed and signed for? I'll tell you, it wasn't, it's a similar 'condition' to 'stay in the union or your out of Europe'....
You should watch the November 2019 Andrew Neil interview. Good examples of her being caught out, unprepared and on the back foot.
That's why I used the word 'rarely' rather than never.
Aye, best to base your vote on who doesn’t annoy you.
Doesn’t matter whether you should or not, people do and in significant numbers.
Where was this condition detailed and signed for? I’ll tell you, it wasn’t, it’s a similar ‘condition’ to ‘stay in the union or your out of Europe’….
Or I could tell you that on 15 October, 2012, the Edinburgh Agreement was signed by Mr Salmond and Prime Minister David Cameron. The Agreement ensured that the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood was able to deliver a referendum that met the highest standards of fairness, transparency and propriety. Here was the lost opportunity not to be bound by 'Once in a lifetime' statement.
http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independenc e">Edinburgh Agreement.
I honest haven’t seen anything I. An remember from Scottish Labour recently (in a Holyrood context)
Any danger of making the necessary moves towards being a credible opposition in Holyrood?
Who could forget the ‘Once in a lifetime’ 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum
Haud yer wheest, ya heid the baw, that quote is taken out of further context that very clearly states that it is a once in a generational chance unless there is further significant changes to the status quo.
Id consider an entire nation state being removed from the eu despite a clear majority showing a preference to stay quite a significant further change to the status quo.
Awa and parrot your trite & meaningless sound bites elsewhere
lotto
They agreed to referendum conditions, but they would rather bleat, moan and blame Westminster for their current situation.
I've had a genius idea. Why don't we make it impossible for them to blame Westminster?
Make Scotland independent.
Awa and parrot your trite & meaningless sound bites elsewhere
This just comes across as bitterness at not getting the referendum result your way. As expected from someone with the maturity to level insults from behind a keyboard;
Haud yer wheest, ya heid the baw
Paraphrasing Scottish dialect serves what purpose in your opinion?
Make Scotland independent
That chance has gone with the referendum result?
In a world where this fact is forgotten, then an independent Scotland wishes to join the EU. (No mention of a referendum here to make sure that's what the population want) appears to me like frying pan to the fire, but the SNP do like somebody else to blame, so this situation would appeal to their party of protest attitude.
That chance has gone with the referendum result?
Democracy is, of course, a one off event. That's why I don't understand why people keep bleating on about the SNP. We had the vote and the SNP won so that means they are our government now and forever. Isn't it time to get over it and move on.
That's how democracy works, isn't it?
Paraphrasing Scottish dialect serves what purpose in your opinion?
I admit it was entirely intentional and deliberate on my part, I was interested in your response and I see you chose to highlight my use of dialect rather than reply to my accusation of selective reporting taken out of context.
Tells me what I wanted to know, 👍
Lottó from your link.
"
<h2 id="mod353347">Memorandum of Agreement</h2>
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<h6>Purpose of the memorandum</h6>
1. This memorandum sets out the elements of the agreement that require legislative provision in the http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence#Section%2030%20orde r">section 30 Order <sup>1</sup> (“the Order”), the draft text of which is annexed to this memorandum, and the elements that have been agreed between the governments on a non-statutory basis.
<h6>Principles</h6>
2. Both governments agree that the principles underpinning the existing framework for referendums held under Acts of the UK Parliament – which aim to guarantee fairness – should apply to the Scottish independence referendum. http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence#Part%207%20of%20PPER A">Part 7 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) <sup>2</sup>, provides a framework for referendums delivered through Acts of Parliament, including rules about campaign finance, referendum regulation, oversight and conduct.
3. Both governments agree that the referendum rules should be based on PPERA, with particular Scottish circumstances, such as the establishment of the Electoral Management Board and subsequent role of the Electoral Commission, reflected in the Referendum Bill.
<h6>Timing</h6>
4. The Order enables the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum that takes place at any point before the end of 2014. The date of the poll will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine and will be set out in the Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government. The Order requires the poll for this referendum to be held on a day with no other poll provided for by legislation of the Scottish Parliament.
<h6>Question</h6>
5. Both governments agree that the referendum question must be fair, easy to understand and capable of producing a result that is accepted and commands confidence.
6. The Order enables the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum with one question on independence. The wording of the question will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine and will be set out in the Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government, subject to the Electoral Commission’s review process, as set out in the paragraphs which follow.
- <sup>1</sup>: Section 30 order
An Order made under section 30(2) of the Scotland Act 1998 allows modifications to be made to Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, which lists those matters that are reserved to the UK Parliament, by either adding or removing reservations. - <sup>2</sup>: Part 7 of PPERA
Part 7 of PPERA consists of four chapters setting out the framework for referendums held under an Act of the UK Parliament: I – Preliminary; II – Financial Controls; III – Controls on publications; and IV – Conduct of referendums.
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7. For referendums delivered by an Act of the UK Parliament, section 104 of PPERA requires the Electoral Commission to review the proposed question and any statement that precedes the question and to report to the UK Parliament on the intelligibility of that question. Section 10 of PPERA also provides that the Electoral Commission can provide advice and assistance to the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government.
8. Consistent with the provisions in PPERA, the Scottish Government will refer the proposed referendum question and any preceding statement to the Electoral Commission for review of its intelligibility. Interested parties will be able to submit their views on the proposed wording to the Electoral Commission as part of the Commission’s review process, in the normal way. The Electoral Commission will report on the question and this report will be laid before the Scottish Parliament. In turn the Scottish Government will respond to the report, indicating its response to any recommendations that the Electoral Commission may make.
<h6>Franchise</h6>
9. The Referendum Bill introduced by the Scottish Government will create a franchise for the referendum. Both governments agree that http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence#The%20Scottish%20Parliamentary%20franchis e">all those entitled to vote <sup>3</sup> in Scottish Parliamentary and local government elections should be able to vote in the referendum.
10. The Scottish Government’s consultation on the referendum also set out a proposal for extending the franchise to allow 16 and 17 year-olds to vote in the referendum. It will be for the Scottish Government to decide whether to propose extending the franchise for this referendum and how that should be done. It will be for the Scottish Parliament to approve the referendum franchise, as it would be for any referendum on devolved matters.
11. The Scottish Government’s decision on what to propose to the Scottish Parliament will be informed by the analysis of responses to its consultation exercise and by practical considerations. The Order does not restrict the extension of the franchise in the case of this referendum.
<h6>Functions of the Electoral Commission and the Electoral Management Board</h6>
12. Both governments agree on the importance of the referendum being overseen in an impartial way by bodies that can command the confidence of both sides of the campaign. The Electoral Commission is responsible for overseeing referendums held under PPERA.
PPERA gives the Electoral Commission responsibility for:
- commenting on the wording of the referendum question
- registration of campaigners
- designating lead campaign organisations
- regulating campaign spending and donations
- giving grants to lead campaign organisations
- publishing guidance for permitted participants
- reporting on the referendum process
- the conduct of the poll
- the announcement of the result
- <sup>3</sup>: The Scottish Parliamentary franchise
The Scottish Parliamentary franchise enables British, Irish, qualifying Commonwealth citizens and European Union citizens resident in Scotland to vote.
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13. The Electoral Commission was also given responsibility for promoting public awareness for voters in the 2011 Welsh and UK referendums.
14. Both governments agree that the Electoral Commission should fulfil all these functions in respect of the independence referendum, with the exception of the conduct of the poll and announcement of the result, and the giving of grants (the Scottish Government proposes that there will be no grants of public money to lead campaign organisations). In its role of regulating the campaign and campaign spending, the Electoral Commission will report to the Scottish Parliament.
15. The Scottish Government proposes that the conduct of the poll and the announcement of the result should reflect the arrangements for local and parliamentary elections in Scotland and will be consistent with Scotland’s electoral management structure, co-ordinated by the Electoral Management Board. The poll and count will be managed in the same way as those elections, by local returning officers (designated for the referendum as 'counting officers') and directed by a Chief Counting Officer (CCO). The Scottish Government proposes that the CCO should be the Convener of the Electoral Management Board.
<h6>Referendum campaign regulation</h6>
16. Both governments agree on the importance of ensuring that the referendum campaign is subject to regulation that ensures that the referendum is fair and commands the confidence of both sides of the debate. The Referendum Bill introduced into the Scottish Parliament by the Scottish Government will include provision for the referendum rules. The governments agree the regulations for the independence referendum campaign should be based on those set out in Part 7 of PPERA.
17. The Order contains specific provision applying some of the PPERA rules to an independence referendum where it would be outside the Scottish Parliament’s legislative competence to make such provision. These provisions relate to referendum campaign broadcasts and the sending of mail-shots free of charge.
<h6>Referendum campaign broadcasts</h6>
18. PPERA provides that only referendum campaign broadcasts made by or on behalf of designated campaign organisations can be broadcast. The Communications Act 2003 requires Ofcom to impose licence conditions on broadcasters requiring them to observe rules set by Ofcom relating to referendum campaign broadcasts.
19. The agreement between the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the BBC requires the BBC to broadcast referendum campaign broadcasts and provides that it is for the BBC Trust to determine the basis on which these are broadcast. Both Ofcom and the BBC are required to have regard to the views of the Electoral Commission when making provision in respect of referendum campaign broadcasts. In both the Communications Act 2003 and the agreement with the BBC 'referendum campaign broadcast' has the same meaning as in PPERA.
20. The Order makes provision applying the provisions in PPERA relating to referendum campaign broadcasts to an independence referendum. This will mean that Ofcom, the BBC and the Electoral Commission will have the same role in relation to an independence referendum as they would in relation to a PPERA referendum.
<h6>Ensuring impartiality of broadcasters</h6>
21. The governments agree that it will be important to ensure that broadcast coverage of the Referendum is impartial. Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission will discuss the best way to achieve this.
Free-of-charge mail-shot
22. PPERA allows a designated campaign organisation to send one mail-shot free of charge to every elector or household. This service is provided by Royal Mail and funded by the UK Parliament through the Consolidated Fund.
23. The Order makes provision applying this provision of PPERA to an independence referendum. This will enable the designated campaign organisations to send out one mail-shot free of charge to every elector or household and for the Royal Mail to recover the cost of postage from the Scottish budget (the 'Scottish Consolidated Fund').
<h6>Campaign finance</h6>
24. Both governments recognise that campaign finance will be an important issue for those campaigning in the referendum, for the Electoral Commission in regulating the referendum, and for people in Scotland. It is important for each of these that the rules are fair and provide a level playing field.
25. The Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government will provide for the spending limits in the regulated period for the independence referendum. Both governments agree that the rules and standards set out in PPERA provide the basis for setting the limits.
26. PPERA sets out spending limits for referendums held on a UK-wide basis and a mechanism for the Secretary of State to set the limits for sub-UK referendums by secondary legislation. In setting such limits, the Secretary of State must consult the Electoral Commission and have regard to its views. Whilst the UK Government is not statutorily required to accept the Commission’s recommendations, it regards the guidance of the Electoral Commission as a key consideration and has so far always followed the advice of the Electoral Commission when setting spending limits for referendums held under the PPERA framework. If the Secretary of State does not accept the views of the Commission on the appropriate limits, he or she is statutorily obliged to lay a statement before both Houses of Parliament explaining his or her reasons for departing from its recommendations.
27. The Scottish Government proposes that the regulated period for the independence referendum should be the 16 weeks ending on the date of the referendum. In setting the spending limits for the regulated period for the independence referendum, the Scottish Government will analyse and consider the responses to its consultation, consult with both existing referendum campaigns – neither of which was in existence during the Scottish Government’s consultation period – and have regard to the Electoral Commission’s views and will set out its proposals, and the evidence on which these are based, before the Referendum Bill is considered by the Scottish Parliament. The Referendum Bill, including the proposed spending limits, will be subject to the established Scottish Parliamentary procedures and scrutiny. The Bill, like any other Bill in the Scottish Parliament will, when introduced, be accompanied by a Policy Memorandum. The Policy Memorandum will set out details of the consultation process for setting spending limits and details of any alternative approaches to any of the issues considered. This will include a statement of reasons if there is any departure from the Electoral Commission’s advice on spending limits.
28. Donations to registered political parties are already subject to a regulatory regime established in Part 4 of PPERA. There is, therefore, no need to create an additional set of rules regulating donations to registered political parties solely for the purposes of the referendum. Political parties will not be the only bodies wishing to campaign for a particular outcome at the referendum. The Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government will deal with controls of donations to permitted participants that are not registered parties or are minor parties. As under PPERA, permitted participants will not be able to accept certain anonymous donations or certain donations from individuals or organisations from outside the UK.
<h6>Government activity during the 28 days before the referendum</h6>
29. It is customary for there to be a period before elections in the UK, during which Ministers and other public bodies refrain from publishing material that would have a bearing on the election. Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions that apply to Ministers and public bodies in the 28 days preceding referendums held under that Act. Both governments recognise the importance of respecting the 28-day period prior to a referendum, in the same way that both governments already respect each other’s pre-election period for Parliamentary elections. The Scottish Government will set out details of restricted behaviour for Scottish Ministers and devolved public bodies in the Referendum Bill to be introduced into the Scottish Parliament. These details will be based on the restrictions set out in PPERA. The UK Government has committed to act according to the same PPERA-based rules during the 28 day period.
<h6>Co-operation</h6>
30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence#Memorandum%20of%20Understandin g">Memorandum of Understanding <sup>4</sup> between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.
- <sup>4</sup>: Memorandum of Understanding
Memorandum of Understanding and Supplementary Agreements between the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Ministers, the Welsh Ministers, and the Northern Ireland Executive Committee, 2000, as updated in September 2012"" - Nothing there about once in a lifetime.
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Tells me what I wanted to know, 👍
I'd be genuinely interested to hear what you now know.
Honestly, you come across as very academic and it would be good to hear your learnings.
But for my sake, please refrain from your use of dialect, or has this request let you know even more about me? 🙄
But one of the key principles of CfE in its first incarnation was that we had freedom to do what best suited our pupils need
and then they come to secondary not knowing how to do a lot of basic numeracy & literacy. The number of pupils I've seen not being able to draw a graph or write a coherent sentence is shocking. CFE does not line up well with the SQA courses if schools are not teaching the right stuff. The jump from N5 top higher biology is big enough without the issue of pupils not knowing their arse from their elbow. As a parent I was not privy to how broke the education system is.
In Edinburgh you can send your kids to Uni for free, in newcastle it will cost them £30 000. In Edinburgh yuu can get free prescriptions, In Newcastle they will cost you etc etc. In edinburgh you will wait less time in A&E
Good points......life here is generally pretty good. All achieved while being part of the UK.
Democracy is, of course, a one off event. That’s why I don’t understand why people keep bleating on about the SNP. We had the vote and the SNP won so that means they are our government now and forever. Isn’t it time to get over it and move on.
That’s how democracy works, isn’t it
It would be if the snp ever won another referendum...
Sturgeon is the only politician I have heard that when given a question on a tricky topic was prepared to say ( I paraphrase) " Thats a tricky question, there are no simple answers, my personal instinct is this, party policy needs to be sorted out at conference" rather than pretending there is a simple solution that can be expressed in a soundbite and pretending they know all the answers
the SNP is also the only party I have heard apologise for policy errors ( Salmond over Trump)
To me this is one of the key reasons for their success. they sound like they actually believe what they say and sound genuine unlike Labour in Scotland who keep on having people make statements you can tell they do not believe - when opposing SNP policy by kneejerk for example.
It would be if the snp ever won another referendum…
First of all, the independence movement is much broader than the SNP (which is one of the reasons any "once in a generation" statemt from a politician is irrelevant) but, even supposing a Yes vote happened, there would be nothing to stop a pro-dependency movement agitating to rejoin with the rUK. Not that I can think of any examples of that scenario playing out.
lotto
But for my sake, please refrain from your use of dialect, or has this request let you know even more about me?
Yes, because it is not dialect, and your request is made from an assumption of cultural superiority.
"Centuries of strife have led some Brits to regard the Scots language and its speakers as inferior or derivative of the dominant English culture. But Scots has a pretty good claim to being its own language; it has its own regional dialects, and is as related to modern English as Dutch is to Norwegian. “It’s as absurd to call Scots a dialect of English as it is to call English a dialect of Scots,” wrote late Scottish poet Norman MacCaig."
Surely if you are going to discuss independence with a resident of a country, then it should be in whatever language they choose to speak, not yours. So add bad manners to what it tells us.
Epicyclo...did I read on another thread you haven't actually lived in scotland for 30 years?
If so, No wonder you are so keen on independence.. you dont need to actually deal with the consquenses!
Are you Sean Connery per chance?
Epicyclo…did I read on another thread you haven’t actually lived in scotland for 30 years?
LOL, that's definitely wrong.
Good points……life here is generally pretty good. All achieved while being part of the UK.
I'm not sure that all the folk at the food banks, those being repatriated against their will and all those suffering/about to suffer due to English Nationalism would agree with you.
LOL, that’s definitely wrong
Probably yes..I was just going on this comment from the flooding thread..
Having lived in the tropics for 30 years where we get monsoonal rain, I amazed at how little rain it takes to cause flooding in the country
TBF, Epi is quite [s] old[/s] mature. I'm sure he's lived for 30 years on each of the continents.
KennyP / Scotroutes - the story of the Zeilsdorfs at laggan stores perfectly shows how policies designed in London damage scotland. A small story but oh so illustrative.
^, yep - that needs a explanatory link here as i imagine many folk will not be aware of the specific issue.
Utterly ****ing despicable hounding of the family, their wee/(but tardis like inside) store was a brilliant boon for the area
A similar tale on Arran. Although Arran cheese man got his wish..presumably he's gonna help pay for jetties for yachties..
The Zeilsdorfs, and cases like that, are pretty appalling, but that's not a reason for Scotland separating from the rest of the UK. It's a case for changing the existing laws, or applying them with a bit of compassion.
policies designed in London damage scotland.
Loads of policies designed in London that Scotland benefits from. NHS for example. Planned and implemented by that evil Westminster.
NHS for example. Planned and implemented by that evil Westminster.
Do you think the NHS wouldn't have come into force without Westminster? Bevans NHS was only implemented after a service was already covering half of Scotland.
that’s not a reason for Scotland separating from the rest of the UK. It’s a case for changing the existing laws, or applying them with a bit of compassion.
Hmm - I can think of one way we might change the existing laws to better apply to Scotlands needs.
kennyP - you are never going to get Westminster to change laws like that on immigration - they have to pander to their hard right / racist base
Its a classic example of how Westminster ignores Scotlands needs
Do you think the NHS wouldn’t have come into force without Westminster? Bevans NHS was only implemented after a service was already covering half of Scotland.
The problem is we can never know. There are so many variables implied by "without Westminster" it becomes impossible to know what may have happened.
I was just making the point that millions of Scots have had their lives improved by decisions and policies designed and implemented by Westminster. Yes, there will have been bad things too of course, same with any government in any country.
There is an SNP driven narrative that Westminster is this nasty place, out to stamp it's evil colonial boot all over poor old downtrodden Scotland (read any independence forum and you'll find those very phrases). The reality is far different. In fact speak to many English people and you'll find they think Westminster is overly generous to Scotland (and Wales and NI).
kennyP – you are never going to get Westminster to change laws like that on immigration – they have to pander to their hard right / racist base
Actually it's pretty simple. The country just elects another government. Those immigration laws haven't existed for ever. They are a very recent thing.
Its a classic example of how Westminster ignores Scotlands needs
The Barnett formula. A classic example of how Westminster recognises Scotland's needs.
kennyp
The Barnett formula. A classic example of how Westminster recognises Scotland’s needs.
Only if you look at it through orange coloured glasses.
Really Kenny? the Barnett formula is under constant attack and is manipulated all the time to reduce Scotlands spending. Yes many folk down south think Scotland gets too much money - thats because the lies are fed to them constantly by the press. An independent Scotland would be richer so that is a nonsense arguement
Ironic isn't it. What this thread shows is that is is, in fact, the Unionists that don't like taking responsibility. They'd much rather someone else did.
tpbiker
…did I read on another thread you haven’t actually lived in scotland for 30 years?
Lived in Australia for 34 years, but have been back here for 16.
Coming from Scotland, the thing I found amazing about Australia was that it wasn't ruled by its next door neighbour New Zealand or Indonesia, but Australians were able to decide their priorities for themselves.
It felt good living in a country with localised democracy like that.
Really quite a revolutionary idea, and I suspect democracy would work quite well for Scotland too...
Actually it’s pretty simple. The country just elects another government. Those immigration laws haven’t existed for ever. They are a very recent thing.
And yet, England continually elects tory governments who ramp that kind of thing up.
Honestly, if English people would stop doing that, there wouldn't be an independence movement.
Ironically, if you want the union to stay intact, don't vote for the Unionist parties.
If you can’t run a family & home on £50k you’re doing something far wrong.
That’s a lot of money and leaves plenty of wriggle room for modest luxuries.
Can somebody tell me in which universe an ordinary person can earn £50k/year, I’d very much like to go live there. That’s more than twice what I earn.
Hi, I do.
Top of my pay scale as a nuclear plant operator. Minimum qualifications for the role were 3 GCSEs.
I know plenty of folk at sea or working offshore earning similar money, marine engineers used to be qualified at HND level, now a foundation degree.