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Adding nutrients alters the flora
I don't doubt. but is the waste from bananas dropped sufficient to do that on mountainsides? The last news article I could find suggests 7kgs of skins taken off Ben Nevis so that's 0.42g of nitrogen released over a couple of years as the skins break down. but doesn't say over what area that is, or what time period Lot's of mountains in Scotland in particular are subarctic for good portions of the year and even grasses struggle to grow there, You'll still need soil for these species to grow, and there isn't any. Plus of course you'd need just huge amounts more to make any difference. Plus of course, what species is going to take advantage of the extra soil, the extra nutrients, and survive the harsh winter?
I don't disagree that Bananas and human/dog shit in unsightly and rubbish begets rubbish. Don't drop it take it home. But the idea that dropped banana skins are significantly changing soil composition is not "well proven"
So much wrong in that post its absurd
Still - you know best as ever. Better than soils scientists and ecologists
Alpine soils on the cairngorm plateau its not farmland but it is still soil
https://www.hutton.ac.uk/learning/exploringscotland/soils/alpine
Still – you know best as ever. Better than soils scientists and ecologists
TJ you've been arguing the toss about this since forever Here's you saying the same thing 10 years ago and not providing any evidence then either.
Jim and Jone who have not been off the couch in a year will not have such bowl control and a strenuous walk up a hill will make their bowls move in uncontrollable ways they have not experienced before.
Perhaps they could empty their bowels into the bowls?
Snowdon is it's own worst enemy - as others have said, put a train and cafe up there and you'll attract the kind of people who also need toilet facilities top and bottom.
Anyone can be caught short - the only time I have been so far was when we went back to Kenya when I was 11, and something disagreed with me in the wilds of the Masai Mara.
Picked up a surprisingly big book when we were in Canada called "How to Shit in the Woods". Never knew it was so complicated.
Nickc - still the bully I see with the obsession about me. It was a mistake to post again. you will not change will you. Why you feel it necessary to do this is beyond me
You said there was no soil on the cairngorm plateau - wrong
You do not understand that its not just the nitrates and you do not understand the ecology. But still - don't let that get in the way of your obsession with attacking me
its also far more than 7kgs - go read up and learn a bit.
the initial point was about human feaces anyway but once again you home in on one tiny part of the debate and turn it into personal obsessive attacks.
The National Park was celebrating with glee on FB at the length of the queues to ‘summit’ over the weekend. I presume they have educated all those people on how to toilet on the mountain whilst they were queueing
The amount of people going up Yr Wyddfa on bank holidays is unbelievable. Even in winter it attracts a lot of inexperienced people - I’ve been up there in full on winter gear to come across people hanging to the edge for dear life in adidas trainers, one slip in that snow would have been fatal.
I’ve noticed a lot more charity events there now as well; Snowdon for Sunrise as well as the national three peaks etc.
I’m not sure what the solution is - you can’t stop people walking up there - except to avoid the place on sunny bank holidays.
Snowdon is it’s own worst enemy – as others have said, put a train and cafe up there and you’ll attract the kind of people who also need toilet facilities top and bottom.
There are toilets at both ends already. The more relevant question might be why they aren't open during a tourist season that's likely to be very busy.
Are the toilets closed though? Except for the summit cafe thats closed for the season.
You have three in Llanberis, one in Nant Peris, one in Pen y Pass, one in Rhyd Ddu to name a few.
As others are saying - it is a tourist attraction, and sadly not a mountain that holds interest for me anymore.
I have been up at least 5 times, latest taking the kids up Crib Goch, and I was shocked how busy it was. Particularly when I am used to Scottish hills.
I do think there is merit in treating it like a tourist attraction now - not as a 'wild' mountain. Facilities. Signs. Support.
Time to maximise the honey pot, to the benefit of the other hills in Wales.
I’ve noticed a lot more charity events there now as well; Snowdon for Sunrise as well as the national three peaks etc.
I have had an issue with these events for 20 years, nothing new to grumble about.
It’s not a grumble as such, just an observation. The number of charity events, and events in general today is much more than 20 years ago.
and I was shocked how busy it was
It's very accessible. For the population that lives in the M62 corridor it's very easy to get to. Plus add in the attraction of the train and cafe, and it's even more so.
don’t let that get in the way of your obsession with attacking me
@tjagain, OK, so this is weird. I really haven't got an obsession with attacking you, and you'll note that my post is framed as a question, and I even agree with your summery that "changes in the soil composition will change the flora". so again, not attacking you. the rest is just my understanding of the situation. It's not enough discarded waste to change the soil ph, the conditions on the mountains aren't good for invasive species, and there are few that would survive up there because of the weather. If you've got the studies, throw them up, ;ets have a look
I've no idea where you get that I'm either obsessed with you or bullying you. In a neutral way, I couldn't give a hoot about you. but I'll note the only person throwing insults around is you (by calling what I said absurd) I haven't been rude, and re-reading my post again I keep failing to understand how it's bullying.
Report me to the mods if you think I'm out of order.
Best thing to do would be for everyone to hold it in and deposit it on the trig point on the summit.
This deserves serious examination, kind of like summiteers building up cairns with stones. It could be incorporated into challengers doing the Welsh 3000ft-ers in a day: extra kudos for crimping one out on each summit cairn in passing.
This deserves serious examination, kind of like summiteers building up cairns with stones. It could be incorporated into challengers doing the Welsh 3000ft-ers in a day: extra kudos for crimping one out on each summit cairn in passing.
Logging your 3 Peaks trip?
It’s very accessible. For the population that lives in the M62 corridor it’s very easy to get to. Plus add in the attraction of the train and cafe, and it’s even more so.
I agree - but even as someone used to the Peak, this was off the scale busy. We skipped past a few hundred people in a queue / melee for the summit cairn photie - with multiples of that still arriving up the tracks... It really was hard to get your head around how busy it was.
I've only been up once. Took the Rhyd Dhu path, early morning, and didn't see a soul until the summit. There was three of us. Had a relaxing 30 minutes chatting before the first train arrived, whereupon it was bedlam for approximately 15 minutes before they all headed to the cafe and peace was instantly restored. This would have been during the Scottish school holidays - first or second week in July.
I'm at peace with it. There are certain hills, certain places, that I know I will never see again. It's a small price to pay knowing that the people who go there lack the imagination, the planning skills and experience to go to the (diminishing) number of places where I can experience what being outdoors means to me. I no longer bitch about it. It just is. I derive amusement from the protests of guides like the one in the BBC article, the 'outdoors professionals' seeking to live their best lives by monetising being in the hills, who are part of the problem they claim to abhor.
my in-laws live within walking distance of snowdon. I've been to the summit once. Its a nice loop around it on the road bike.
On the august bank holiday last summer when it hit the headlines for a 2hr queue for the summit and fights etc, we climbed cnicht and saw about 10 people all day.
It really was hard to get your head around how busy it was.
Yeah, someone called it an outdoor mall, and I don't think that's far off the mark. I went up in late April a few years back as there was a weather window and I had an empty weekend, and it seemed like there was a football match's worth of folks on the Llanberis path. Tried coming down Rangers and it was equally busy. It wasn't bad, I mean; it's still mountain biking in Wales...but I'd not be keen to go back.
The following day I did the up and down path on Cader Idris and didn't see a soul. Perhaps that's the best thing about Yr Wyddfa, it keeps everyone off the rest of the hills in Snowdonia
Pen Y Fan can be equally bad.
Possibly time the big charity event organisers contributed something in the areas that are blighted at all hours by summit bagging teams?
I know its "Charity" but should they contribute to the amenity? I believe they should.
Is it not the same with human ashes? There was an article a while ago about how people constantly spreading ashes on Ben Nevis has changed the flora and fauna.
I have done the Snowdon Horseshoe route a few times, including watching a couple half way across Crib Goch have a full on slanging match, "this might be your idea of fun, but you can stick Snowdon up your ar*e" as she tried to get along in a t-shirt, tiny shorts and fashion trainers with no grip on soles.
We climbed it last year on holiday and wouldn't do it again at any time of year where it's likely to be populated by the flipflop and bottle of Evian brigade. I suspect the cafe / toilet closure is part of the problem. The views are stunning on a clear day but it's just horribly busy and lots of **** with no outdoor etiquette.
Back in N Wales this summer and it's on my "definitely not" list.
As for the lack of facilities bury it or bag it and carry it down.
Took my three kids up on Wed 13th and it wasn't that busy, 15-20 minute queue at the top for summit at around 2-3 in the afternoon. No poo in sight on Miners and Llamberis paths, and luckily our dog didn't find any either.
Cafe and toilets at the top were closed, signage at Pen-y-pass was clear that it was closed and there was no toilet facilities at the top.
We went prepared with supplies of dog poo bags and loo roll just in case.
I do think there is merit in treating it like a tourist attraction now – not as a ‘wild’ mountain. Facilities. Signs. Support.
I live nearby and agree, this is a good idea. Llyn Elsi above Betws-y-Coed for example already have emoji on the way up, flagging effort levels and how far left to go. Sure, it's Disneyfication of what was once a rugged mountain, but why not? N.Wales isn't exactly short of empty mountains. On funding for it, blimey, so many missed opportunities with that amount of "footfall" of folk on holiday, looking for things to do and buy.
The queue for the trig point always bemuses me. If you get a pic of you just below it, that's gonna do, who's gonna say 'ahhh haaa you didn't climb Snowdon coz there's no pic of you and the trig'?
I’m guessing they need to readjust opening times in line with global warming
Only a few years back April would have seen Snowdon in full winter conditions requiring crampons.
Ben Lomond felt the same when I was in Scotland last year for a short break. It's accessible (although by comparison to Snowdon; the CP is teeny) and barring a few slightly awkward sections; the route up is well paved and relatively straightforward. Certainly saw more than a few of the "flip-flops and bottled water" set. The same can be said for Catbells and the summits above Grassmere, and as a poster earlier sad, Pen Y Fan and the loop around the Gap
There's more than enough more remote places to seek out if you're not fond of crowds, and for lots of folks, these places offer them a relatively safe way to experience more remote places that they'd otherwise probably not go to.
I’m guessing they need to readjust opening times in line with global warming
No, I don't think it's anything to do with climate change, more to do with when people now take holidays. When I was growing up, almost nobody went on a break in this country between September and May. We wouldn't even spend the day on the beach until late May onwards, despite only living a few miles away. I moved to South Devon, as a student in to late 80s, and we had a running joke about nothing in the county being open until after Easter. We lived in cheap off-season holiday cottages until summer term when there'd be a panic to find somewhere to live.
These days people take breaks and holidays all through the year, and attractions of all sorts are open year round.
And, a few years ago I was on Snowdon on May Bank Hol in sub-zero temperatures. It didn't seem to be putting anyone off regardless of how (un)prepared they were.
Flip flops and Evian suggest at least a small amount of preparedness.
My last time up I had to give directions down to someone in a Wolves shellsuit, who was armed only with half a tube of Pringles
As others have said, go knowing what to expect or swerve it for somewhere better
Only a few years back April would have seen Snowdon in full winter conditions requiring crampons.
The Easter we last went up, 4 years ago, we were shouted at for ignoring the queue on pyg track all waiting one by one to go ascend or descend a worn line in the snow. The kids and I simply bum slid down a hundred metres or so, a few metres to the side.
One gentlemen was particularly upset, told me he how irresponsible I was as a father. My response that I was Winter Mountain Leader and that I spent half my life taking people up mountains was met with "so you should know better"... Meanwhile his wife in jeans and fleece, carrying the handbag dog shivered in the queue..
My response that I was Winter Mountain Leader and that I spent half my life taking people up mountains was met with “so you should know better”…
It's nothing to do with being prepared to go up a hill - you jumped the queue. Any more of this and we'll see the end of the Empire and all it's values. You should be flogged within an inch for not understanding the very basis of British civilisation.
Bizarrely this thread has inspired me to organise a weekend with the family to do Snowdon, Llyn Padarn and Tryfan. I assume that the flip flop brigade won’t be on the mountains at 7am.
I was thinking first bus up to pen y pass at 7am then Crib Coch, Rangers path and Telegraph alley. Play on the lake then camp at the foot of Tyfan. Again head up first thing either come down after the summit or do Bristly Ridge dependant on tiredness/weather.
I bet we don’t have a free weekend before the summer holidays.
I assume that the flip flop brigade won’t be on the mountains at 7am.
Well there won't be so many of them,,,,
And how do you define "proper walkers"?
And how do you define “proper walkers”?
Minimal use of forelimbs
And how do you define “proper walkers”?
Must be bloody miserable. Kitted out for an attempt on the Trango Towers, stood on Mam Tor or Snowdon moaning about plebs in flip-flops 🩴
I have met a couple of lads on crib Coch in flip flops and to be fair they were pretty fast I don’t think we kept up with them. Not bothered who’s on the hills just don’t want to be queuing to get up the mountain.
I don’t tend to walk in the UK anymore we are too busy at weekends with kids stuff. But I do walk in the Pyrenees and the Alps they have no problem sticking a hotel or restaurant on the top of a mountain. There’s a definite snobbishness around access to the countryside and I’ve talked about it on here before. The waymarking and the facilities in Europe are so much better than in the Uk.
We were here last week in one of the most spectacular places in Europe and there’s a large refuge two thirds up the mountain with Camping.
And how do you define “proper walkers”?
I've a set of photos somewhere from my old staff team following a similar comment from the boss.
All on Munro summits:
Two in little black dresses and heels.
One in wetsuit and b/a.
One kilted.
One ninja.
One inflatable Picachu.
One in flipflops. Nothing else. Just flipflops.
Never had to but as a dog owner I always have dog pooh bags about every pocket.
She will kill me if she knew I am telling but rushing to get back on the Chunnel, then finding all the services close to Calais where all completely shut, even the slipway. She did it in a pooh bag in the truck. She was very neat about it, kids were asleep in the back and didnt stir. [All windows wide open]
We dont mention this. 😮
Never had to but as a dog owner I always have dog pooh bags about every pocket.
She will kill me if she knew I am telling but rushing to get back on the Chunnel, then finding all the services close to Calais where all completely shut, even the slipway. She did it in a pooh bag in the truck. She was very neat about it, kids were asleep in the back and didnt stir. [All windows wide open]
We dont mention this. 😮
Who shat in the bag? The dog? Remarkable.
sorry I mean the wife 🙂