[Closed] smoking outside pubs

To all the addicts getting worked up just face it, it's a dirty filthy habit, u stink and it's killing u, how can u get defensive about that?, those are the facts.

absolutely agree but not everyone opposing your view here is a smoker

I don't smoke. I can, however, get defensive about people having the right to choose what they want to do.

Ditto

It is an interesting moral quandry this one. I respect the rights of smokers to smoke /enjoy a fag/poison themselves / engage in addiction(delete as per own prejudice). I equally respect the rights of the majority to not have to partake in this activity.
Perhaps we should just have better designated zones or have smoking and no smoking venues (inside and outside) and then eveyone would be happy?

EDIT: The right to choose is fine as a principle but once it harms others we have competing rights.

and then everyone would be happy?

No chance.

can, however, get defensive about people having the right to choose what they want to do.

but it's not about that, it's where they want to do it...

it's where they want to do it...

What, you mean like somewhere on the face of the planet ?

Smokers pay their taxes too remember.

What, you mean like somewhere on the face of the planet ?

planet pub perhaps

I suppose if you measured it they're still allowed to smoke on 99.99% of this planet

The more you non-smokers whinge. Despite being constantly placated by this nanny government with bloody stupid draconian laws, the more us smokers adopt this attitude:

http://www.funniesttshirts.co.uk/2009/07/i-smoke-to-annoy-you-t-shirt-tshirts.html

You know what, I hate it when I you are just about to light up, and some ignorant git comes along with food making the place stink of gravy.

[img] [/img]

yes of course, that's it, nothing at all to do with spineless addiction :o)

Binners out of interest do you smoke in front of your kids ?

Does passive gravy inhalation cause cancer now?

EDIT: TJ I agree they should have somewhere to smoke. However myself (and the majority of people who do not smoke) ought to have somewhere outside that is smoke free as well

smokers have been hounded out of pubs and restaurants - leave them somewhere to smoke.

sanctimonious whinging

Junkyard - My kids don't know i smoke. I'd never smoke around mine, or anybody elses kids.

I'd never smoke near people eating either. We're not all inconsiderate bastards you know

Also: if you banned smoking outside pubs, you might as well close half the pubs in the country in advance.

The moaners taking their kids for a meal on a sunny Sunday once a month in the summer, isn't going to keep them open I'm afraid

i rest my case though on smoking as the obvious question is why not and the answer passive smoking etc.
As an ex -smoker and occasional smoker these days you do have my sympathy you should have somehwere to smoke free of whinging annoyed people.
Our smoking shed is a joke ... I still go out with the smokers but dont indulge)

spineless? SFB, I know far braver men than you who smoke.

TJ, did you manage to give up in the end mate?

ongoing process backhander - 8 or 10 wks smoke free now tho.

SFB, I know far braver men than you who smoke.

"braver than SFB" is hardly much of an accolade :o) Perhaps they just pretend to be brave to cover up their craven lack of self discipline ?

Perhaps they just pretend to be brave to cover up their craven lack of self discipline ?

Yeah, because squaddies have a craven lack of self discipline don't they?

FFS, you really are a self righteous, priggish, prat at times, SFB.

because squaddies have a craven lack of self discipline don't they?

isn't that why they joined up so as to be told what to do all the time ?

FFS, you really are a self righteous, priggish, prat at times, SFB.

oh excuse me, you mean this isn't Troll Central ?? I really couldn't care less, but it's fun to tease the defensive smokers!

So in essence you (the smokers) are defending your right to partake in an activity that has no benefits at all and is proven to have a varied long, mid and short term adverse effects. Up to and including death.

If you were discussing some other form of self harm, someone somewhere would be telling you to get help.

Also: if you banned smoking outside pubs, you might as well close half the pubs in the country in advance.

The moaners taking their kids for a meal on a sunny Sunday once a month in the summer, isn't going to keep them open I'm afraid

I think you might find that most pubs make much more from food than they do from self satisfied smokers masturbating, sorry, smoking away with their pint. Do all chemical dependencies result in aggressive self importance or is it just nicotine?

isn't that why they joined up so as to be told what to do all the time ?

TJ, well done you've broken the back of it now I think.
8 months down, no problems. It only gets easier.

[i]I think you might find that most pubs make much more from food[/i]

There's quite a few pubs round my way that don't serve food

SFB - so one must conclude that intelligence is no barrier to stupidity

You might like this pic I took in Newfoundland last summer.... 🙂

[img] [/img]

Anyone who doesn't smoke is just a coward who is scared of lung cancer and heart disease.

Anyone who doesn't like inhaling the toxic product of someone else's "freedom to choose" is a whiner.

There you go, I've saved newcomers 3 pages of catching up.

The only thing that might move the argument forward is some plausible evidence that [i]simply being able to smell cigarette smoke from across the beer garden[/i] is a serious cancer risk.

My guess would be that, while sitting in confined spaces full of smoke clearly is problematic to some extent, sitting in the open air with cigarettes being smoked nearby is simply not very carcinogenic, and compares favourably with other known carcinogens, such as Angel Delight, the Argos Catalogue and anchovies.

If that's right, then the problem is one of whether one likes the smell. And putting it like that doesn't really create a high ground. 🙂

(I don't smoke more than about 3 fags in a heavy year, I just find the frenzied carry-on rather daft.)

i agree, i hope these people don't take their children to fireworks nights and bonfire parties. And I hope you don't drive there, or walk next to a road with all those fumes. And heaven forbid using electricity in your homes because that doesn't cause smells or pollution at all does it.

some plausible evidence that simply being able to smell cigarette smoke from across the beer garden is a serious cancer risk.

That's the precisely problem with smoking - it isn't very dangerous.

You can light up a cigarette, deeply inhale the smoke until you've finished the cigarette, repeat that 30 times a day everyday for the next 30 years, and you might still not get cancer.

Of course two-thirds of smokers will eventually die of smoking related causes, but that requires a lifetime of regular and daily dedicated smoking. If smoking was anywhere as dangerous as some of the sanctimonious self-righteous gits on here claim, then no one would smoke.

lol

I want to live in ernie's world but I can't find blinkers to fit ;-(

Ernie.
What was your point I really am lost [nice feeder line for your own brand of sarcasm /put down 😉 )
By your own admission it kills the majority of participants?

Shooting victims have a higher survival rates so I assume it is now very , very safe to be shot then 🙄 perhaps weekly even ? or am i being silly now ? well you started it

If smoking was anywhere as dangerous as some of the sanctimonious self-righteous gits on here claim, then no would smoker at all

It is in the nature of addiction that addicts do the strangest things to feed their habit. Look at what heroin addicts do for their habit or crack heads for example

With such eminent protagonists as David Hockney, Churchill, I.K. Brunel, Clarkson, Keith Floyd & our very own Tandemjeremy (some of whom are still living) one can only suppose smoking will soon come to be seen as deeply uncool...

As for allegations of self harm, perhaps we're on shaky ground as mountain bikers - though despite my distressingly frequent trips to A&E I think I can credibily argue that MTB has benefitted my health and fitness over the past decade, whereas I don't think many smokers would still claim health benefits (apart from invalidity)

If smoking was anywhere as dangerous as some of the sanctimonious self-righteous gits on here claim, then no one would smoke.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a danger to health from outdoor passive smoking, just that it's unpleasant

I want to live in ernie's world but I can't find blinkers to fit ;-(

And I want to live in a world free of sanctimonious self-righteous gits 😐

Shooting victims have a higher survival rates

so if you randomly shot someone 20 times a day they'd have a better chance of survival than someone who smokes 20 a day?

What was your point I really am lost

My point was that you won't die from sniffing a bit of cigarette smoke.

And it was in reference to BigDummy's post.

I think that smoking is already regarded as uncool.
Perceptions have changed a lot and I think it's far less socially acceptable. I now find that a smoker will normally be the odd one out in any group that I'm in. Makes me worry where the govt are going to look to fill the tax void though.....

Also: if you banned smoking outside pubs, you might as well close half the pubs in the country in advance.

wasn't exactly the same argument advanced for smoking [b]inside[/b] pubs ??

However, we should extend some gratitude to smokers because by reducing their average lifespans they relieve us of supporting them in old age - with steadily falling birthrates the burden of people too old to work but refusing to die will become increasingly problematic

this thread is class, people winging about smokers, before pubs were the place to go for smokers, ok rightly smoking has been banned in them, now people want it banned 100% because it effects them...

ok in that case ban all vehicles as they release far more fumes than a cig, so any non smokers who have a car or motorbike.. your killing me!!!

your outside a pub whats worse? a bit of fumes from someone smoking a cig or people getting p1ssed up and fighting outside said pub?

simonfbarnes - Member

Also: if you banned smoking outside pubs, you might as well close half the pubs in the country in advance.

wasn't exactly the same argument advanced for smoking inside pubs ??

And how many (newly non-smoking) pubs are closing every week, Simon?

Makes me worry where the govt are going to look to fill the tax void though.....

I'm not sure there is any evidence to suggest that there is a net economic gain from smoking. (tax revenue vs the cost to the economy)

Simon, a lot of pubs did close directly as a result of the smoking ban. Drive around and have a look. Mostly pubs which didn't sell hot food. So the smokers now go to pubs which do sell hot food and annoy the diners.

And how many (newly non-smoking) pubs are closing every week, Simon?

why not make up a number ? Bearing in mind the current economic situation I think it would be hard to attribute it to the ban

Drive around and have a look

a) no car
b) don't care

jon, i may be wrong but I seem to remember seeing some figures that show that smokers more than pay for their cost (by quite a lot, too).

And how many (newly non-smoking) pubs are closing every week, Simon?

So here's a question for the smokers.
Why d'you do it? It's got no reedeeming features. (apparently it's not even cool any more)

b) don't care

Well you should. Because it contradicts your claim.

Or, are you saying that you're not bothered about talking bollox ? 💡

a quick mental count yields 26 pubs in easy walking distance of here, and zero closed.

Well you should. Because it contradicts your claim.

I'm cool with that - I don't mind being wrong

I don't believe you.
Not about the pubs, I don't believe that you can count.

I don't believe that you can count.

you're right, since I posted that I've thought of 4 more 🙂

I don't mind being wrong

Well apparently you do ........... because you keep arguing over the point.

because you keep arguing over the point.

and the point is I like arguing :o) The topic is always beside the point.

The topic is always beside the point.

Don't you mean the [i]facts[/i] are always beside the point ?

This thread is testament to the generalisations that are often made about smokers.

number of pubs that have closed since the smoking ban around my part of Glasgow, new area in the north of Glasgow, village in Oxfordshire where my family lives, villages in Ayrshire where more family lives... ZERO.

It is great being able to enjoy going to a pub. I used to avoid pubs due to the smoke. Now I, and countless other people (non smokers who are in the majority in this country) go to pubs more often and increase their business.

that is the reality, not the one the media tried to portray at the start of the smoking ban.

Get back to watching your soaps and barking about your 'rights' to nobody who cares.

My better half was never able to go to pubs much before the ban, due to her health.

How I long for the smoke filled, bawdy, obnoxious, pool table clad, wife deficient dingy places of old.

Where non-smoking students who asked for Mohitos were instead given a wry smile and a pint, or in the darker places of Wellingborough, a good drubbing out the back.

Don't you mean the facts are always beside the point ?

them too

Simon, a lot of pubs did close directly as a result of the smoking ban. Drive around and have a look. Mostly pubs which didn't sell hot food. So the smokers now go to pubs which do sell hot food and annoy the diners.

Easy to blame the smoking ban, but it seems not to be true - pubcos are simply changing the types of establishments they run:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/pubs_arent_dying_they_are_evol.html ]Mark Easton - pubs aren't dying[/url]

them too

OK, let's see what we've got here ........ the topics and the facts are beside the point. Whether you are right or, wrong, doesn't concern you - apparently. So what we are saying, is that you enjoy arguing and talking complete bollox about things you know nothing about.

I glad we've sorted that out .............. I would never have guessed otherwise.

So the smokers now go to pubs which do sell hot food and annoy the diners.

prior to the ban there were very few smoke free pubs

So what we are saying, is that you enjoy arguing and talking complete bollox about things you know nothing about.

whether I know anything about the subject or not doesn't matter to me. I can soon invent an opinion. I'm glad we got that sorted out too :o)

Knowledge is too poor an alternative to argument

Smoking is fun!

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4709394.stm (some of this is amusing!)

[i]About 10 million people in the UK smoke cigarettes, according to anti-smoking charity Ash. It says a further two million - the vast majority of them men - smoke cigars, pipes or both.

By age group, it is 20- to 24-year-olds who are most likely to light up, with about a third considered smokers. As people get older they become less likely to smoke, with the rate falling to 14% for the over 60s.

Manual workers and their families are almost twice as likely to smoke as those with a managerial or professional background (31% compared with 17%). And people living together are twice as likely to smoke as those who are married (35% compared with 18%).

Across the country, the greatest proportion of smokers is found in the North East (30%).

Many smokers start early in the morning. About one third of people who get through more than 20 cigarettes a day light up within five minutes of waking.

Smoker lies on a bed of cigarette packets

Among this group, eight out of 10 people say they would struggle to go 24 hours without a cigarette. Among all smokers, more than half would find the task a challenge.

Nevertheless, [b]seven out of 10 smokers say they would like to quit. [/b]The proportion wanting to stop is highest among those who smoke 10 to 19 cigarettes a day. It is suggested many heavy smokers believe stopping would be too difficult.

The average male smoker is thought to get through 14 cigarettes a day, while women smoke 13. [/i]

So, smokers, why do you want to quit?

Smoking is fun!

I agree - I love smoking! I just don't do it.

I don't smoke, so I don't know why 70% of people who smoke claim they want to quit. But I reckon if you deployed all the resources of government and the full weight of middle class social pressure to sneering at people for eating carrots despite the fact that around a third of them regularly did it and appeared to enjoy it you'd soon find an increase in the number of people claiming they wanted to give up on carrots. 🙂

So you reckon the reason those 70% want to quit is due to the government?

Yeah, of course it is!

A bit late to the discussion here. I don't have a huge problem with smokers, I don't like it much but i'll get on with my life. However, we recently had the finance's mum and sister over to BC for a couple of weeks, her mum smokes and it rules her bloody life.

She got patches for the flight over and kept going on about how amazed she was that they worked... duh its what they are designed to do... but well done made it though a 9 hour flight and 4 hour delay without issue. She then feels she has to have one once she's back at our place (outside I might add), not because she wants one but because she feels she has to. No logic in it

Everywhere we went after that was focussed around being able to go for a fag, take them to the mall, where's the nearest exit, going on a trip she needs to know when she can smoke and when we do stop to look at something interesting her first thought is to have a fag, and imagine trying to tell her there is a smoking ban in parks because of all the dry weather and forest fires we have had 🙄

Granted a few of you might be somewhat considerate, but please be aware that nobody wants to smell your stinking fag smoke while having dinner outside in the summer whether they tell you or not!

Ex-smoker here so I claim the right to be holier than holy.

Most smokers are junkies, end of arguement. By junkie I don't mean someone who takes something for the pleasurable effect it imparts, I mean someone who [b]needs[/b] a substance to acheive their perceived normality.

Most smokers are junkies

wrong, CFH maintains he is merely exercising his inalienable freedom of choice!

[i]So you reckon the reason those 70% want to quit is due to the government?[/i]

When everyone thought it cleared out your airways and cigarette packs didn't say "SMOKING KILLS" on them I reckon the proportion of smokers who claimed they wanted to quit was probably lower, yes.

Intense social pressure (including threads like this) has created a situation in which a major national hobby (see the stats you've quoted) has been turned into something its proponents have to be ashamed of doing.

They know they "should" quit, so they say they want to. 🙂

I suspect CFH of not being a very committed smoker. 🙂

The problem with all of this is the lack of moderation. 20 fags a day is grim. It costs, it turns your teeth yellow, it's addictive, it gives you cancer and to achieve that rate of smoking you'll be doing it rather a lot in the pub, which will create a noxious cloud around you.

If you smoke now and then it doesn't cost much money, isn't seriously addictive, does you precious little real harm and produces a level of smoke that most normally tolerant people can live with, especially if you're smoking nice cigars.

As with drinking, where government's endless response to the problem of a few people drinking too much and mis-behaving is to bollock everyone for drinking anything at all, the response is arguably proportionnate, but only if the worst excesses of the behaviour were typical rather than aberrant. 🙂

has been turned into something its proponents have to be ashamed of doing. They know they "should" quit, so they say they want to

so are you saying it's not about addiction but pleasure ?

It's a serious question. I've only ever smoked for pleasure - I'm far too much of a control freak to allow myself to be addicted to anything (other than sex or biking - or sex [b]and [/b]biking *) but I miss all the rituals and sensations. Perhaps if I had some immanent fatal condition I might smoke **

[edit] * and arguing...
[edit 2] ** if I couldn't have sex. I assume I'm right in thinking they're mutually exclusive ?

YES i am a smoker! a junkie of nicotine/benzine whatever you call me.
We the smokers of the world know what its doing to us.
We Know what it does to you(the nonsmoker) and the planet.Yes the government are making things better for the nonsmoker. I agree with there no smoking in public places forum.Yes its smelly and dirty but i LIKE smoking.Not cause im think im cool or hard.... For me personally,nicotine is medicimal.(yes you can stick all your shity comments up if you like)It suppresses my appetite so i dont overeat which in turn stops my bowel exploding. All in all were all gonna die...How quick is up to you when you light up. As for polluting the atmosphere..I think Chernobyl disaster done a better job than all the smokers on the planet. Plus the government likes my cig money too.Will they ever ban cigs...NO WAY.

Nicotine is clearly addictive, but smoking is also pleasant, certainly in moderation.

I've not idea how it breaks down between pitiful addicts and cheerful [i]bon viveurs[/i], and working that out is not helped by the fact that it's a class thing, and I'm pretty sure I don't get the culture of the early 20s manual workers who (according to the above) are doing the lion's share of the smoking.

My own approach to this subject owes a lot to Tom Hodgkinson, the editor of The Idler and to the chapter dedicated to smoking in his wonderful How To Be Idle. Hodgkinson is interested in the sensory pleasures of smoking, but also in the time that one is forced to put aside for it as quiet, contemplative time, often when one is supposed to be working. He is therefore able to portray it as a slightly subversive act in which to take pleasure. Again, the chap probably smokes a couple of rollies a day and a cigar, pipe or hookah on special occasions, so I suspect is not a dire chemical addict. 🙂

Will they ever ban cigs...NO WAY.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I'm all in favour of legalising [b]all[/b] drugs. Until we fix the world so people can just be happy we might as well let them get a brief respite of intoxication.

I'm all in favour of legalising all drugs.

I'm not disagreeing with that but I can just imagine the 'smoking crack outside pubs' thread!

Christ, this thread is enough to make me want to start smoking again. As a kind of halfway house, next time I go to the pub I'm going to cadge a tab and just let it burn to see how many ****s I can annoy.

And I want to live in a world free of sanctimonious self-righteous gits