[Closed] Smoking is a pretty disgusting habit, but...

To be honest it's not really the health hazard that agitates me. It's the smell of the bloody things.

I hate the smell of brown sauce. If I am staying at a hotel and someone at my table puts in on their plate it puts me off my food.

That's the truth, I hate the stuff.

Should I start looking to ban it in public spaces?

hels - Member

Can I add ugly fat hairy old people to the list of things that we can ban from pubs ? And dance music.

Can we ban people that call it dance music? Do you call all other genres "standing still music"?

[u]Unlike people on here[/u] I'm not lumping in all non-smokers as a homogenous mass

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"drive-thru beer gardens" - quote of the day !

I hate having to pull over in the car to drink.

There are nearly as many deaths now caused by air pollution as there are from smoking,

So 10s of millions of cars still doesn't quite kill as many a few million smokers.

Coz they're outside, innit

Sorry Boardin bob - I was not sure everyone would understand if I just referred to it as "crap pseudo house that hasn't changed since 1987", but diff'rnt strokes and all that !

where can I get me a fumatory lip wig, I want one of those bad boys...

😆

Sorry Boardin bob - I was not sure everyone would understand if I just referred to it as "crap pseudo house that hasn't changed since 1987", but diff'rnt strokes and all that !

Come on then... fess up. Which of the [b]ban it! Ban it now!![/b] brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year

Don't be shy.... 😀

Does Saturday night count?

tbh - although I rarely go to the pub as I'd have to drive (because the local one closed) and freeze my knackers off in winter talking to the smokers...

When you could smoke I quite liked the smell of a pub, now they smell of stale beer and sweaty people 😥

You're not going to convince anyone that you're an avid pub-goer when you have already stated that you don't care about pubs closing down.

I don't particularly care if they close down because I don't base my life around drinking and going to pubs like some do.

Then maybe you should leave the decisions on what goes on in beer gardens to us chain smoking alcoholics then?

😀

Then maybe you should leave the decisions on what goes on in beer gardens to us chain smoking alcoholics then?

Given your decision to keep smoking, I'm not sure you could be trusted with anything important.

Tbh, I don't go to the pub because I find drunk people infinity more problematic than smokers..

"Come on then... fess up. Which of the ban it! Ban it now!! brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year"

i was in three different pubs on friday night.

and ive just bought a pair of old beater bikes for me and the mrs so we can support the local in the village - 45 minute each way walk on the country roads is just a bit much in winter.

Given your decision to keep smoking, I'm not sure you could be trusted with anything important.

Well it means I won't be posting crap on here for too much longer.

As I've already said... a bit of gratitude wouldn't go amiss

I was on a terrace last weekend at the Bocabar with mrs deadly, dd and the dog. Naturally, I was tutting at the smokers.

Taken from channel 4 website purely to regurgitate:

Smoking has a huge cost to the NHS - an estimated £5.2bn - but boozed-up Britons put a massive dent in the overall economy because of the additional £11bn burden on the criminal justice system. All too often, drinking results in violence, either at home or out on the streets.

So sod the personal wars on smoking and direct your anger to everyone in the pub

Come on then... fess up. Which of the ban it! Ban it now!! brigade hasn't been to the pub since Colins birthday at the end of May, or christmas last year

3 nights a week, normally. Although two of those tend to be in a Student Union bar, so I'm hardly single-handedly supporting the local economy.

always enjoy this debate. opinions are so vehemently black or white.

for me i dont really care, unless i get some obtusely odorous filthy fagash degenerate ****hook sit next to me on the train or something, i tend to avoid places where the rats may gather... so im completely on the fence 🙂

21. The main cost of air pollution arises from the adverse health effects on people. The 2007 Air Quality Strategy estimates that the health impact of man-made particulate air pollution experienced in the UK in 2005 cost between £8.5 billion and £20.2 billion a year.

[url] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmenvaud/229/22906.htm [/url]

Plenty to be outraged about - but let's concentrate on outdoors smoking...the public cost of which is still to be demonstrated (beyond annoyance).

Plenty to be outraged about - but let's concentrate on outdoors smokers...the cost of which to the public is still to be demonstrated.

And there are children starving in Africa.

Do you use a car? Are you reliant upon a petro-chemical economy?

Sadly yes, I own a car, but I try to use it as little as possible and not round town, I also try and shop local where possible, although I can't single handedly change the economy or pollution levels I do the considerate thing and try and limit my impact, which amounts to the same thing as asking people not to smoke around other people, just asking you to be nice and considerate, but when that doesn't work regulation comes in, pollution/emissions restrictions because people wont/can't stop driving, regulated areas if people wont stop smoking around others, it's the same thing although on massively different scales, regulation steps in when it can't be self-policed.

Binners is right though in one respect, it's not smokers in general that are an issue, it's inconsiderate smokers. But banning inconsiderateness is a bit more tricky. and taking his 'who forced you to sit with the smokers' situation, it's the other way around, inconsiderate smokers forcing others to inhale their smoke.

If this could be dealt with easily in beer gardens by a friendly "would you mind putting that out or moving elsewhere, we'd quite like to enjoy our beer and meal without those toxic fumes" chat it would be great, but that's more likely to get you a mouthful of abuse or a f-off than anything else. If that worked then there'd be no need to try and regulate to protect people.

In which case get off your horse, it's waaaay too high

I like it up here, the air's clearer 😉 and my horse isn't particularly polluting so I say Naaaaay!

We're definitely going to be tax positive. We pay shedloads of it on our 20 Bensons a day, we tend to go quickly after a short, horrific illness, and save a fortune in pensions and Werthers Originals.

Like I said... a bit of gratitude wouldn't go amiss

If this could be dealt with easily in beer gardens by a friendly "would you mind putting that out or moving elsewhere, we'd quite like to enjoy our beer and meal without those toxic fumes" chat it would be great, but that's more likely to get you a mouthful of abuse or a f-off than anything else

I've got to ask... what kind of pubs do you go to? Perhaps you should consider going to nicer ones? Try and avoid the ones with a flat roof

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Would be an interesting experiment...

Get someone to go to a number of pubs, sit themselves down on a table next to some smokers and ask them politely if they could stop so you can enjoy your pint/food, then categorize responses as follows:

A> apologetic compliance "so sorry! I'll put it out right now"
B> grumbling and muttering but put it out
C> tell you to "do one" but in a polite manner
D> tell you to "do one" in an impolite manner
E> get punchy

I bet you the overwhelming majority of responses would fall in the C->E range, if you're lucky you might get a few B's and the occasional A.

...and I'd take that bet most would be A.

And you know what, that's one bet I would be happy to lose. And I'm sure the vast majority of the nice people on STW would be an A, but STW isn't exactly representative of the general public.

bet that's a cracking pub, don't judge a book by it's cover! 😆

I bet you the overwhelming majority of responses would fall in the C->E range, if you're lucky you might get a few B's and the occasional A.

You really do need to drink in better pubs.

[b]sit themselves down on a table next to some smokers[/b] and ask them politely if they could stop so you can enjoy your pint/food, then categorize responses as follows:

Do you think that going and plonking yourself down next to a smoker and immediately requesting they extinguish their cigarette might, just possibly be construed as .... you know... a bit unreasonable? Maybe just a bit arrogant?

Have you actually been to many pubs?

Yes they used that line too when there was talk of banning it inside pubs.

And it was equally as legitimate back then.

You can dig up any figures you want but the original smoking ban destroyed the pub trade in the village I lived in. The weekday business dried up over night.

I bet you the overwhelming majority of responses would fall in the C->E range, if you're lucky you might get a few B's and the occasional A.

With science like that why even conduct such experiment?

Speaking as an occasional smoker who sometimes frequents beer gardens I personally wouldn't (and don't) choose to sit next to someone who is eating, I normally choose a far corner whatever.

If someone decided to bring their food to sit next to me and then asked me to put my fag out I wouldn't have a problem. I might silently question their politeness in choosing to sit next to me, only to then ask me to cease some of my enjoyment to facilitate theirs. I might realise they had no choice as all other tables are full. Depends. Also depends on their attitude. But I'd be polite and put it out in most situations, no question if they seem genuinely polite. It's all about respect isn't it, it goes two ways.

One thing I am sure of is that your experiment is fraught with even more variables than assumptions. Some people can catch a whiff of smoke from 20 metres away and turn into raging Keith Pratt, yet have no trouble queuing for ten minutes by a smokey BBQ. There is evidently a social stigma attached to smoking, and plenty of prejudice/stereotyping which has quite frankly surprised me here today, even by STW standards 😯

binners, do the pubs you frequent still have sawdust floors and spitoons?

Yes they used that line too when there was talk of banning it inside pubs.
And it was equally as legitimate back then.
You can dig up any figures you want but the original smoking ban destroyed the pub trade in the village I lived in. The weekday business dried up over night.

Laws change for various reasons.
Sometimes the change benefits some businesses. Some times it has a negative effect. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have made the law in the first place. I put people's health over profit myself.

amedias - Member
Would be an interesting experiment...

Get someone to go to a number of pubs, sit themselves down on a table next to some smokers and ask them politely if they could stop so you can enjoy your pint/food, then categorize responses as follows:

A> apologetic compliance "so sorry! I'll put it out right now"
B> grumbling and muttering but put it out
C> tell you to "do one" but in a polite manner
D> tell you to "do one" in an impolite manner
E> get punchy

I bet you the overwhelming majority of responses would fall in the C->E range, if you're lucky you might get a few B's and the occasional A.

Do you think that going and plonking yourself down next to a smoker and immediately requesting they extinguish their cigarette might, just possibly be construed as .... you know... a bit unreasonable? Maybe just a bit arrogant?

One thing I am sure of is that your experiment is fraught with more variables than your assumptions.

I did say as an experiment! I did't say it was a good one 😉

On the face of it I'd say it depends if there's other available places to sit, but no I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the person doing something unpleasant and harmful in social area to stop it if other people trying to also use the space don't want to be impacted by it.

based on your comments about picking a nicer pub, I'm assuming even if some unreasonable arrogant person did that to you you'd be an A?

Does that not just confirm that its the right, considerate thing to do? don't see how you can be both an A and consider the request unreasonable. If you thought it was unreasonable you'd surely be a B 😉

Speaking as an occasional smoker who sometimes frequents beer gardens I personally wouldn't (and don't) choose to sit next to someone who is eating, I normally choose a far corner whatever.

If someone decided to bring their food to sit next to me and then asked me to put my fag out I wouldn't have a problem. I might silently question their politeness in choosing to sit next to me, only to then ask me to cease some of my enjoyment to facilitate theirs. I might realise they had no choice as all other tables are full. Depends. Also depends on their attitude. But I'd be polite and put it out in most situations, no question if they seem genuinely polite. It's all about respect isn't it, it goes two ways.

Exactly my point from earlier, you're a nice considerate person who can consider the impact on others and act considerately.

But as we've already noted, regulation comes in because not everyone is as considerate as you and Binners may be, and you can't ban inconsiderateness.

To be honest I wouldn't sit down next to a group of smokers if I could avoid it, and if I couldn't avoid it I'd probably go to another pub or place to eat, only if I'd already ordered and it was the only place to sit would I consider asking someone to stop, and I'd like to think I'd be able to do it politely too, in fact I'd feel embarrassed to have to ask.

amedias - Member
Do you think that going and plonking yourself down next to a smoker and immediately requesting they extinguish their cigarette might, just possibly be construed as .... you know... a bit unreasonable? Maybe just a bit arrogant?
I did say as an experiment!

On the face of it I'd say it depends if there's other available places to sit, but no I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the person doing something unpleasant and harmful in social area to stop it if other people trying to also use the space don't want to be impacted by it.

based on your comments about picking a nicer pub, I'm assuming even if some unreasonable arrogant person did that to you you'd be an A?

Does that not just confirm that its the right, considerate thing to do? don't see how you can be both an A and consider the request unreasonable. If you thought it was unreasonable you'd surely be a B

My fave Pub "like in the Whole Wide World" has a no smoking ban inside (clearly has too) and a Landlord optional outside one too. Has to be the best place, like eva.
It ain't because there aren't any "faggers", nope it's simply because it's a bloody lovely place and sells it's own exceptional beer.

Some of the locals are nice too... and I guess some of those smoke, just not here.

the right thing to do is respect the first come first serve rule, not invade someones space and start dictating etiquette.

I'd argue the right thing to do is to respect the health and environment of those around you.

Or does the smoker that got there 'first' trump the other people that arrive after, regardless of number?

It's one of those things you just shouldn't inflict upon others without their permission.

I think I'm starting to see why you may perceive pubs as a more hostile environment than most people do.

I think I'm starting to see why you may perceive pubs as a more hostile environment than most people do.

Not at all, the discussion has just focussed on pubs/beer gardens though hasn't it because it's one of the last places where people can smoke in close proximity to others, and with food and drink around, hence the friction. Outside dining areas were also mentioned but there seems to be less outrage about that?

It's not the environment that's hostile at all, it's the inconsiderate people who make that environment unpleasant for non-smokers.

Parks I think is a different matter entirely as you don't have the forced close proximity aspect, and it's not part of a purchased service like at a pub.

If anything you should be more outraged at the comments about making smoking "abnormal" and demonising it, which is something you'll have noted I've made no comment about as I don't really agree with it, and I'm not in favour of total bans or anything like that. I think you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't impact on other people or affect their health so directly.

Those of us getting uppity about pubs and such are doing on the health and enjoyment grounds of that [i]specific[/i] environment, and that's more easily argued as having genuine merit especially where food and drink are concerned.

amedias - Member
the right thing to do is respect the first come first serve rule, not invade someones space and start dictating etiquette.
I'd argue the right thing to do is to respect the health and environment of those around you.

Or does the smoker that got there 'first' trump the other people that arrive after, regardless of number?

It's one of those things you just shouldn't inflict upon others without their permission.

But as we've already noted, regulation comes in because not everyone is as considerate as you and Binners may be, and you can't ban inconsiderateness.

Don't we have speed limits for the same reason?