MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Yeah, that’s what we hear all the time.
It's true. My local pub has a thriving social scene and loads of regulars who all know each other. I can walk in there any time on any day of the week and there'll be someone I know who I can have a chat with. It provides an amazing networking function for the community where I can find advice on almost any subject (a bit like STW) and find people with skills who can help me with any issue who I know won't scam me or screw me over because otherwise their local reputation would be in the mud. And on top of all that it's a bloody good night out.
Or would you prefer everyone sit in their homes staring at the telly or chatting to strangers on the internet (the irony eh!) who they will never meet real life? It's an old cliche, but maybe you need to get out more?
Surely the smokers will just stand at the gate? Or not bother to go to the pub at all?
And quite possibly sit in their living room smoking while their kids are present
Stricter implementation or age restrictions, I.D. requirements and stricter implementation of the law haven’t helped either. Just means the kids get someone to go to Lidl and go crazy in an adult free environment.
You're going to deny that in your day kids didn't get drunk at houseparties and make out awkwardly on the sofa and instead went to drink Boddingtons bitter in the Dog And Partridge ?
My teenage years were more Inbetweeners than Skins but even I had more fun than trying to be accepted into old man village pubs ?
It’s true. My local pub has a thriving social scene and loads of regulars who all know each other. I can walk in there any time on any day of the week and there’ll be someone I know
So for those that visit pubs regularly pubs have people in them that they know, but pubs are going bust left right and centre because not enough people use them. Your anecdote about your local is not evidence pubs provide anything other than beer and a place to drink it
I see this as the thin end of the wedge. The government are “protecting us” from harming ourselves
And again, they already do this. For example you can't legally use heroin, you can't legally drive without a seat belt and so on. The only difference here is the the drug has been widely available for a long time -if it were new and the effects of its long term use were known it would have been made illegal pretty quickly.
So what business is it of yours, or the governments, in not letting all concerned get on with it?
and
@convert – apologies for my comments being more than a touch insensitive, given your own personal experience
Fair do's, ta.
However, If you read, I wasn't in favour of a ban. I've got an opinion about a lot of things - as have you. It's ok to have an opinion without it being my business. The art is deciding what to do with the opinion and when to vocalise or act upon it.
Or would you prefer everyone sit in their homes staring at the telly or chatting to strangers on the internet
I don't particularly give two shits either way I just think moral outrage about pubs closing due to there supposed social good is bollocks, it's always some country pub not Whetherspoons selling cheap larger at 9 am
you can’t legally drive without a seat belt
You know, if the seat belt was a new thing that the govt demanded we all use, You could lay money on so oaf declaring it was his right to be thrown through the windscreen onto the road after crashing, it's nothing more than thin end of the wedge nanny state wokery
And there I was thinking threads like this would bring out all the preachy, judgemental, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, self-righteous bedwetters and their tiresome hectoring for the world to live up to their joyless, humourless standards
Hate to break this to you Binbins, but there's precisely one hectoring bedwetter on this thread.
Those on low:income or benefits seem to spend the most on cigarettes, for reasons I don’t understand.
I suppose if your life is miserable, you'll take little luxuries wherever you can.
We also have (in the village) at least two houses that routinely burn coal through autumn/winter/spring. We have two other houses (one owned by a builder) who routinely burn anything they can get their hands on – wet wood, tanalised timber, old plywood etc. and then there’s the usual cohort of wood burners and open fires (I have one of each). Furthermore, there is no gas in the village, so most are on oil. Some of these oil boilers are 30 years old (mine is, it’s also in a listed building in a conservation area, hence why it’s still here) and belch out foul smelling fumes all winter. Then there are the farmers (routine pesticide spraying aside) – one has a fire skip which he uses to burn assorted farm rubbish on a regular basis, the other prefers to pile his rubbish in the field outside his farm for an occasional bonfire. And of course there’s the garden bonfires in autumn/winter – all that lovely damp, green, leafy material, just freshly cut, or else from a wet pile that’s been festering at the bottom of the garden for a few weeks. Then we get onto the diesels – one chap collects old land rovers, another is a bit of an off-road enthusiast, and there’s a younger lad with a ‘no smoke, no poke’ type BMW. That’s in addition to the plain vanilla pre Euro 5 stuff that you can smell 100 meters down the road.
Out of all of those, how many can you still smell on your clothes the next morning?
Regardless of health concerns, I think this is something many smokers are oblivious to. It is such a pervasive smell, it clings like little else. You can walk past a smoker in a supermarket and their background aroma catches your throat. Whereas I'm reasonably confident that I could spend an evening in the company a vaper and not have to boil my clothes the next morning because they stank of dewberry.
It’s bonkers now to think of the office culture back in the 90’s innit?
It is weird how quickly we normalise things. I worked at a company in the 00s where they had a smoking office. There were three or four guys in there who smoked, in the office. That just seems mad today, can you imagine walking through work today and just lighting up a fag casual as you like?
I was the IT bod at the time so did site visits to that office, it was grim. Everything was beige and literally sticky. Walls, keyboards, computers, mice were the worst. I'd uplift faulty base units and it'd stink the car out, how much do you have to smoke to make metal smell?
Your anecdote about your local is not evidence pubs provide anything other than beer and a place to drink it
If people just stared at the wall in silence and solitude necking lager. You've mentioned a couple of times on this thread that you use or have used pubs. Is that what you do or did? Or did you get anything more than that out of it? If not, why do/did you use them? If you read again, people have provided plenty of evidence of pubs providing a whole lot more than that.
I was a Merchant Navy Deck Officer in the 90's.
Nearly everyone smoked.
We smoked on the bridge. There was even these strange, pull down, sand filled ash trays fitted in the front bulkhead.
I would easily get through 10 - 12 cigs in a 4 hour watch.
Then we would go for a drink in a smoked filled bar.
I would get through between 30 and 40 per day.
We all must of stunk.
I actually managed to quit on my last trip on there, took a lot of willpower and some nicoret gum.
I actually own a pub with the other half. She runs it, while I run another company - but I'm still heavily involved. I also happen to be a smoker who's quit multiple times for 5 or 6 years at a time.
We've both got mixed feelings on it. Even as a smoker I'm not against where you can smoke being more restrictive. I believe I'm a considerate smoker, but understand that what I think is considerate may not be viewed as such by a non-smoker. I'm also not against some additional forms of restriction on smoking on licensed premises, and indeed some of the pubs in our area have made parts of their beer gardens non-smoking anyway.
If it did even happen, and it was a blanket ban, I don't think a substantial amount of establishments would see a large negative impact. But there are those that will, and it's not hard to put a pin on it being wet driven pubs that will find it tough. We're approx 60/40 food/wet, and do have what I think is a relatively high percentage of smokers amongst our regulars. They're mostly afterworkers having a few after doing mostly physical jobs - we're rural, so there's heaps of fencers, tree surgeons, farmers, groundworkers, etc. It's those people we'd alienate with a blanket ban, and it's those people who keep us ticking over in the crappy months of Feb and March. There's also a large amount of business networking going on between those guys too, so would they lose out on those opportunities if they decided to not come to us because having a smoke would be more difficult? Dunno, but I suspect so.
If they are to implement more restrictions, there needs to be some kind of graduated approach - i.e. if you're over 80% (say) food led, then maybe it is an outright ban, but if you're wet led and you have the space to do it, then smoking is permitted in some outside zones, probably making sure it's X metres from a doorway, etc, etc. It's maybe a first step on a path to a complete ban, maybe it's not - but a cold turkey approach will not be great in my opinion. But they've only said they're looking at it, so it might not even happen at all!
Oh BTW - we're £3.90 a pint for all ales (nothing from more than 30 miles away) and standard lagers and ciders, just for anybody that assumes that everyone is on 6 or 7 quid a pint. We make it work for reasonable money, and I'm sure there's lots of other oubs that do too - but if you don't visit them, you'll never know ;o)
Your anecdote about your local is not evidence pubs provide anything other than beer and a place to drink it
Local pubs do far more than just sell beer. I could name all the other stuff my local does but there's not much point. It must be lonely up there in your ivory tower.
Where's your pub @cx_monkey? Sounds great! Any chance of an STW lock in? 😉
Some handy pointers for a lot of the contributors to this thread
What to do if you see a smoker in a beer garden: An emergency guide
we're in the Teign Valley about 6 or 7 miles west of Exeter, just inside the Dartmoor National Park. Just down the hill from Haldon and the other trails around there ;o)
That’s me convinced
I knew you were smarter than you make it out to be - WELL DONE!
Oh BTW – we’re £3.90 a pint for all ales (nothing from more than 30 miles away
Where is this pub? I shall come and visit 🙂
Nice post
I was a Merchant Navy Deck Officer in the 90’s.
Nearly everyone smoked.
We smoked on the bridge. There was even these strange, pull down, sand filled ash trays fitted in the front bulkhead.
When I first started in nursing it was usual to smoke on the wards - both patients and staff. Ashtrays on beside lockers, Ashtrays in the kitchen or a storeroom for the staff. Seems incredible now.
Just one example of the benefits to the community of a local pub & one I know well. There are others in the area & more further afield. A quick google search shows other similar stories around the country. Go see the people who use these pubs & tell them they have no value.
https://packhorsebath.co.uk/our-story/
https://www.limpleystokecbs.org
When I first started in nursing it was usual to smoke on the wards
Really? Without being rude when was that?
That's totally unimaginable!
Could they smoke in bed?
I see this as the thin end of the wedge. The government are “protecting us” from harming ourselves
Leaving aside, as kerley says, this already happens for illegal drugs its only partially the case here. Its just as much about protecting others from harm.
I used to work in the hospital laundry, 1996 on for a few years. Stag could smoke in the break room, it was horrendous, a thick cloud in there every brew time. There was a yellow tide mark round the walls at head height!!
Moved across to the labs in 2000, the old staff in there tell me there used to be ash trays on the benches. Culture of TB or gonorrheoae in one hand, tab in the other!
Disclosure - I'm an ex smoker, used to bloody love smoking and probably still would, but it's best left in the past.
tjagain Full Member
When I first started in nursing it was usual to smoke on the wards – both patients and staff
Really? Without being rude when was that?
Really? Without being rude when was that?
That’s totally unimaginable!
Could they smoke in bed?
When you think about it, the attitude towards smoking and how it has changed in a relatively small amount of time is astounding – remember a time not so long ago when Rows 1-34 on a plane were non-smoking and Rows 35-70 were smoking (so the poor sods in the rows immediately in front got next to no advantage of being in non-smoking) – some airlines were still allowing smoking until the late 1990s! Or sitting in a restaurant eating a meal and having someone on the table next to you light up a post-meal cigar, or working in an office where someone at every other desk was chain-smoking. Not to mention having to wash all your clothes after a night out in the pub because they all stank of smoke the next day.
I don't recall smoking being allowed in hospitals though.
I vividly remember going to the cinema as a kid in the 70s and looking at the screen through a thick blue haze of smoke. Thick enough to partially obscure your view, as well as guarantee a sore throat and stinking clothes. That was at the kids Saturday morning cinema club, never mind an adult film!
we’re in the Teign Valley about 6 or 7 miles west of Exeter, just inside the Dartmoor National Park.
Which pub? When I lived in places around Bovey, my friends and I made a mission of drinking in every pub within about twenty miles to work out which was best, and who served the best ham, egg and chips. I can't remember which pub won! After a couple of years of country pubs with farm implements on the walls it was nice to find a metal pub in Totnes. (The Castle, iirc?) I wonder if I ever drank in yours?
About 10 years ago, I was in Antwerp for work.
I had no work on the Saturday but had to work Sunday.
Had a wander around the City.
Walked into a small bar, ordered a pint, then realised that everyone was smoking. Apparently, in Belgium, if the bar is below a certain size you can still smoke.
I sunk the pint quickly, only there minutes but by the time I made it out , I was stinking of smoke.
Seems incredible now.
I have a picture of my dad when he was a fitter on the line at RAF Gutersloh standing with a pilot in the QRA hut both of them tabbing away, there's a fully fuelled Lightning complete with missiles standing not twenty feet away in it's hanger. It's OK though, there's a door between them and the plane. This would've been the early 70's
I have found the past five pages on this thread quite interesting because of the vehemence of the positions it has engendered. I just can’t get that worked up about it either way.
I have never smoked, not even a single drag. None of my family smoke and few of my friends beyond a ‘social fag’. I admit that the ban on smoking in enclosed spaces was a huge relief for me as I hate the smell of the cigarettes and the people who smoke them. I definitely started frequenting my local more often( but certainly not daily) when the ban came in.
I was not brought up in a culture of going to the pub, my father or his friends very rarely went to one. He is 92 and I have never ever seen him drunk or even close to it. He enjoys a social drink still, but a nice red is his thing rather than beer. so I didn’t go into pubs until I was 18 at university and hadn’t been brought up to equate drinking with having fun.
So to me the concept that the pub is the hub of one’s social life doesn’t ring true because I was never brought up in it. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy going to pubs and used to go once every week but for a number of reasons I haven’t been regularly for the past five years or so and tbh I can live without it. So some might argue that my opinion isn’t important as I am not invested in that social scene. But….
On the occasions that I have had meals in beer gardens I would move if someone lit up near me, but to be honest that was not very often as most people who smoke seem to be considerate in my experience. So a ban is not likely to alter my behaviour but it might just change others. It may be a good thing in the long run but getting there is problematic.
I do think it’s going to be very difficult to enforce any ban without the cooperation of the people who run the pubs and how likely that will be must depend on their clientele.
I don’t recall smoking being allowed in hospitals though.
In the corridors yes but never on wards ime
When I first started in nursing it was usual to smoke on the wards – both patients and staff. Ashtrays on beside lockers, Ashtrays in the kitchen or a storeroom for the staff. Seems incredible now.
One time I got a rare glimpse into the None Shall Pass area that was the staff room in high school. You literally couldn't see to the back wall and it wasn't a large room. As a kid it staggered me that someone would go in there and think "You know what this place needs? More smoke."
I have found the past five pages on this thread quite interesting because of the vehemence of the positions it has engendered.
Honestly, my biggest bugbear with it these days is normalised littering. An ex was (is?) a smoker, she used to carry an empty fag packet or a ziploc baggie to stick butts into in case she got caught short of a bin. If you're a smoker it shouldn't be difficult to not be a ****ing tramp about it.
I was going to mention school staff rooms.
Quite literally a puff of smoke would be released when the door was opened.
My junior school headmaster, would be smoking his B&H at his desk, give you a bollocking, before assaulting you with a leather strap.
There should be a complete ban on smoking. It does no good to anyone, not the smokers, not the non-smokers.
When I worked on a building site, it was unpleasant to have to work with someone who smoked. Often tools in hand, fag in mouth. I shouldn’t have had my workspace contaminated by a smoker, whether outside or not. As others have said it clings to your clothes.
When I lived in a tenement flat, it was deemed acceptable for another resident to walk by everyone else’s door while smoking until he got to his flat.
There is no nanny state in improving health.
I might fall of my bike and get injured, but even if i do the bike has contributed to health and well being, unlike smoking.
As others have said, why is it acceptable to leave a non biodegradable cigarette butt in the street?
I had a tradesmen round in April, he was a smoker. I saw him flick is cigarette butt into the garden and it was also acceptable to leave an empty cigarette packet hidden in the garden. I didn’t find drinks cans or any other litter from the rest of the team which were doing the job. Some/most smokers are inconsiderate. Even if you are allowed to smoke in a beer garden, it is still inconsiderate. Have a drink and smoke amongst smokers.
Completely ban smoking. I guess if you smoke you don’t see it that way.
I was going to mention school staff rooms.
Quite literally a puff of smoke would be released when the door was opened.
I started teaching in 1984, none of the three schools that I taught in allowed smoking in the staff room, each had a separate room for those that smoked to keep them away from the students. Perhaps I was lucky
There should be a complete ban on smoking.
Which would be as successful as the complete ban on cocaine
Smoking on wards - I saw the very end of it in the early 80s. Literally ashtrays on bedside lockers.
why is it acceptable to leave a non biodegradable cigarette butt in the street?
That's a point in itself. In the days of the War On Single Use Straws And Carrier Bags why do we not have cigarette filters which disintegrate after less than 20 years?
Which would be as successful as the complete ban on cocaine
Username checks out.
pothead
Free MemberAnd quite possibly sit in their living room smoking while their kids are present
They should have their kids taken away from them
And quite possibly sit in their living room smoking while their kids are present
They should have their kids taken away from them
No argument from me on that point, same goes for smoking in cars with their kids inside but there's been no mention of banning such things from politicians as far as I'm aware
Is it only me that remembers smoking on airliners where you had a smoking and no smoking sections. Ban smoking altogether including vapes .
£7-£8 per pint in a pub,walks of shaking head and mumbling.
"You’re going to deny that in your day kids didn’t get drunk at houseparties and make out awkwardly on the sofa and instead went to drink Boddingtons bitter in the Dog And Partridge"
Don't be silly, in my day we did both, I said these days kids don't tend to mingle intergenerationally in pubs whereas in my day they did.. I didn't deny that we also got drunk at house parties and the local parks.
And in my day it was Holsten Pils because the adverts were cool, not Boddingtons.
Oh, and a shout out for Wetherspoons. When I go out in Chorlton Wetherspoons is the place where I still see all the generations, the trendy bars sell beer at nearly a fiver a pint and are generally populated by single track types.
Wetherspoons on the other hand has beer at exactly half the price, so that's where the kids tend to go as well as the old folk.
I go to both by the way, live and let live etc.
Wetherspoons on the other hand has beer at exactly half the price, so that’s where the kids tend to go as well as the old folk.
@inkster Chorlton spoons is the venue of choice for my daughters and their mates for pre-loading on the cheap before jumping the tram into town where the prices double
Threads like this make me not only want to start smoking again, but get back on the class A’s too
No argument from me on that point, same goes for smoking in cars with their kids inside but there’s been no mention of banning such things from politicians as far as I’m aware
Fairly sure that it's illegal to smoke with kids in the car these days.
It’s been illegal for since 2015. You’ll know that because of the thousands and thousands of prosecutions for it
Oh… hang on a minute…
Apparently nobody has ever been prosecuted
Still… I’m sure the whole beer garden thing will be much more successful
next week: the law making it illegal to eat cheese in your bathroom
Still… I’m sure the whole beer garden thing will be much more successful
If it happens, isnt it just going to be a re-run of the indoor ban? Which is largely adhered to.
Or at least it was until I stopped going to pubs regularly. Might have changed in the last 5 or so years.
My youngest son reckons it's just being floated to distract everyone from the budget.
Ban this or ban that!
The sign of a clueless govt.
I am a smoker (tobacco roll-ups only) but seldom smoked near people, and certainly never smoked where people eat.
Pub drink or eat? Nope. Too expensive for me nowadays .
How much a pint you say?
Hence, I only go for drink about 5 times a year.
just being floated to distract everyone from the budget.
I can't offer an explanation for the motive behind the suggestion but the next budget is still two months away
The motive is odd indeed. If it cuts down on smokers then great but the effects of reduced smokers won't find their way into lower demands on NHS for what 30-50 years?
Not what I would call a pressing matter to be raised so soon.
80,000 people rooughly die from smoking every year, take action now and you'll still have an impact. at just a couple of months, your risk of heart attack drops, and lung function improves.
There's going to be other factors in that equation, air quality for one.
All your nasty diesel and petrol fumes must be really playing a part in that number.
During the pandemic lockdown with much fewer traffic on the roads, the air was a lot cleaner. But now its back to breathing in those car fumes.
Buy hey, as long as you have 2nd hand tobacco smoke somewhere near you, you can think yourselves hard done by.
Wear a mask?
The existence of something bad is not lessened by the existence of something else bad. One could equally say:
"During the pandemic lockdown with much fewer smokers on the pavements, the air was a lot cleaner. But now its back to breathing in those cigarette fumes.
Buy hey, as long as you have diesel smoke somewhere near you, you can think yourselves hard done by."
... and it would be equally pointless an argument.
Just listening to the discussion on Any Answers on R4.
Someone just said that amongst Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin and Hitler, only Hitler did not smoke.
Let that sink in.
tbh, if Nigel Farage is against a smoking ban, that's good enough for me to think it must have merit.
There's nothing quite like robust evidence, is there.
There’s nothing quite like robust evidence, is there
We left the EU with less evidence than we have for the dangers of smoking in pub gardens. And that was completely fine.
Well, it wasn't fine, was it.
All the outrage is about maybe include some regulation of outdoor smoking. Have a consultation, get the age-escallator through with some not-too-controvercial restrictions around the school gates and the likes and it looks like good politics. Beer garden smoking is in the public conversation and will help what is already the direction of travel.
Just as an aside to the folk saying the smoking ban was disastrous for pubs. The pub i am in right now is heaving on a monday night. Before the smoking ban it was a moribund bar with few customers
Now its standing room only on a monday night because its moved with the times serves goid food and is hip and trendy.
I haven't seen a single person go outside to smoke.
So what youre saying TJ, is many pubs have shut down because of this ruling, and smokers who previously visited have stopped going, which as a result has lost them business.
Now its standing room only on a monday night because its moved with the times serves goid food and is hip and trendy
Why you there? ?
NO dyna ti Before the smoking ban this pub was fairly empty. Now its heaving. Still the same number of pubs round here. Its heaving because its moved with the times. Been a big demographic shift locally as well. This bar used to be the hookers hangout.
AA - I am so hip I cannot see out of my own pelvis
*preens with manbun*
The pub garden smoking ban is a drag on our freedoms -
David Mitchell
But the advocates of the ban tried to claim that it was not an assault on liberty, by citing the health impact of passive smoking.
Are they really going to make the same claim when it’s being done outdoors? That smoking in pub gardens significantly shortens the lives of significant numbers of non-smokers? More than driving non-electric vehicles or smelting steel or lighting bonfires on 5 November, activities the government is not proposing to ban?
People against this ban seem to hold personal liberty in high esteem, above all else. Presumably because they don't like being told what to do. However smoking can really **** you up, and a lot of people who are ****ed up and dying seem to regret ever starting, so I can see that banning smoking entirely has merit.
Personally, I'm addicted to sugar in some way or other and will happily admit that I wish I could only buy decent healthy food.
Let’s just ban everything then, in case anyone does anything that negatively impacts their health and possibly later regrets it.
I’ve ended up in A&E on a number of occasions from my clumsy stupidity while out mountain biking, once having my face stitched and glued back together (which was fun).
Following your logic, let’s ban mountain biking too then, eh? What then, after we’ve banned that? Rugby, surely? Skateboarding? Heading footballs? In fact, let’s just ban football! BMXing? Definitely Trampolining? That’s got to be on ‘the list’ Cakes? Biscuits? Sugary death which people can’t be trusted with. Playing Russian Roulette with Mr Kipling.
Apparently quite a few people were injured last years from being hit with rolled up wet towels. For the sake of the survival of civilisation we definitely need to ban towels. Just in case.
Ban it all! Ban everything!
Job jobbed!
Hmmm it's an odd one to go after as a matter of urgency.
The outside smoking thing not being a big public health issue on it's own, what with ciggy smoke quickly diffusing in air. I think you pretty much have to blow it up peoples noses or directly into their mouths (who does that to a stranger in an outdoor public setting) for there to be a serious risk of illness from passive inhalation. In a confined space different story of course!
The first smoking ban definitely accelerated the closure of pubs across the country and this proposal will finish off the remainders that are limping along. Those that don't have much outdoor space, can't become family restaurant venues that also serve alcohol and those in locations with poor footfall/premises in secondary and tertiary areas of towns and cites.
It pushed loads of old hands/tenants out of the industry and fueled the already predatory behaviour of chain pubs stitching up new tenants with onerous leases doomed to failure for all but the most exceptional tenants!
There's some rather extreme reactions on here to a pretty light weight ban. Personally it's a pretty pointless exercise as it's almost totally unenforceable and even of it was the affects would be minimal.
However and I'm all for a full smoking ban, we need to introduce the age related ban the Torys were talking about, stamp out smoking for good. The UK is way ahead of many other European countries, I'm in Germany at the moment and smoking is much more prevalent here and in Mediterranean countries it's still quite widespread.
The civil liberties arguments against a ban would be fine if we all had to pay for our own health care directlu etc. In which case do want you and take full responsibility for the consequences. We don't live in that society though (thank God) so there is some quid pro quo between the state looking after you when you need it and how you behave.
It shouldn’t really come as a shock that if you have 18 pubs and 17 have gone bust then the remaining 18th is a bit busy.
there are still dozens of local pubs and none have shut - because they adapted to the change. there are actually more places to drink around here than 30 years ago
The first smoking ban definitely accelerated the closure of pubs across the some parts of the country
fixed it for you
Those that don’t have much outdoor space, can’t become family restaurant venues that also serve alcohol and those in locations with poor footfall/premises in secondary and tertiary areas of towns and cites.
Two pubs that stopped doing food and have have no outside space have thrived as well.
Well run pubs that can adapt thrive. The competition locally has meant pubs need to innovate and find a niche for themselves. These niches include "traditional bar with good beer"
However and I’m all for a full smoking ban, we need to introduce the age related ban the Torys were talking about, stamp out smoking for good.
This really is the proper answer. Remove smoking from people who have never known it in the first place, and you make the problem go away with minimum fuss. Smoking in beer gardens and other public places will gradually fall, and the kids who’ve never known it won’t give a shit. Although, as the parent of a kid who’d get caught by the 2009 law if it’s enacted, his age group really aren’t interested in smoking. Or drinking for that matter.
Falling off a mountain bike has no detrimental impact on anyone else. On Saturday in a car park there was a family with young child in push chair, both parents standing round him smoking. Unfortunately that child has no choice whether they inhale the passive smoke.
This is why there needs to be a complete ban. In some situations the Government need to act for the greater good and wider benefits to the population. Health out trumps anything else. There would be no negative impact in banning smoking, I guess if you are a smoker you will disagree and still think it’s ok to light up in a beer garden, next to a family having lunch.
TJ you know your local experience doesn't reflect the situation in most other places? I Googled from idle curiosity and found that Edinburgh has the highest ratio of pubs to population in the whole of the UK.7.4 pubs per 10,000 people in Edinburgh, the UK national average is 5.4. So you are starting from a much higher base and Edinburgh's tourist destination status trade must help. I don't know, but I suspect in similar fashion, pubs in London would be able to weather financial and legislative burdens better than provincial pubs.
Where I live pubs are closing. Same in smaller towns, villages and rural areas all over the country. The closure of a single pub in a village has a much bigger impact than a handful closing in a large city. Nationally 80 pubs on average close every month, that is the figure for those that cease to be pubs and never reopen, not those that change hands. I am a life long non smoker who strongly supported the indoor ban. A pub garden ban though feels petty, disproportionate and largely ineffective as a public health measure. And likely to adversely affect pub licensees who live a precarious existence at the best of times.
Government need to act for the greater good and wider benefits to the population. Health out trumps anything else.
Have you thought about the logical progression of that? Beyond smoking? How many foods, drinks, modes of transport and recreational activities are you prepared to see banned for the 'greater good'?