I just want to suggest to those who think the smoking ban killed pubs to maybe consider lifestyle changes
Its not the job of you or anyone else, especially not governments, to suggest people change their lifestyles in accordance with your wishes, Kim Jong Un 😉
And going to the pub or going out riding isn’t an either/or situation. All rides end at the pub. Thems the rules. Well.., they’re my rules but I don’t feel the need to tell the rest of society that they need to comply with them
Heres one I did last week. Bike ride? Yip! Pub beer garden? Absolutely! We’re other people smoking? Dunno. Not something I generally notice
Why do you think a government might want to encourage people to adopt healthier lifestyles?
Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc etc
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
now on a friday night I am either riding, climbing or going to the gym/exercising with those friends.
How lovely. How would you react if someone came along and told you you couldn't do that any more because it's bad for you? Would you say 'I'm very sorry, yes you're riight, I'll change my behaviour to what you want me to do', or would you tell them to f*** off?
Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc
The clinical features of caffeine intoxication vary but have been reported to include cardiovascular symptoms (hypertension, hypotension, tachycardia, bradycardia, atrioventricular block, supraventricular tachycardia (SVT), ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation, myocardial ischemia, myocardial infarction, and cardiac arrest), gastrointestinal symptoms (nausea, vomiting, severe recurrent vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea), psychological/neurological symptoms (delusions, hallucinations anxiety, agitation, excitation, seizures, headache, cerebral edema, coma), metabolic symptoms (hypokalemia, hyponatremia, hypocalcemia, metabolic acidosis, respiratory alkalosis, hyperglycemia, fever), musculoskeletal symptoms (weakness, rigidity, tremor, rhabdomyolysis), pulmonary symptoms (hyperventilation, respiratory failure), tinnitus, dizziness, diuresis, and death. Renal failure and questionable hepatic injury (i.e., based only upon modest transaminase elevation which is known to occur in cases of rhabdomyolysis) secondary to rhabdomyolysis have also been reported.
Don't drink coffee ! !
And it's probably best to avoid smelling it too.
Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc etc
As above, so is coffee..
If the bhf think it's safe I'll go with that before your non expert analysis of its harmful effects, which have been based on a quick Google..
Thanks though..
How lovely. How would you react if someone came along and told you you couldn’t do that any more because it’s bad for you? Would you say ‘I’m very sorry, yes you’re riight, I’ll change my behaviour to what you want me to do’, or would you tell them to f*** off?
You've missed my point, I was giving my view on why pubs have shut or are shutting which I don't see linked to the first smoking ban.
For your point, as an adult, you get told you cant do stuff all your life, its how you learn right from wrong, stealing sweets from a cupboard at home, maybe okay, stealing from shops not okay.
To quote Fred Durst... Life is a lesson you learn it when your through...
Why do you think that those whose health they claim to be concerned about do not want the ban but the people they are apparently not targeting do?
Well, you're the second person who has dodged the question I asked, but I will try and answer your question. I think some smokers don't want the ban because it will prevent them from indulging a habit that they currently pursue when they are at the pub. Pretty straightforward. I think some non smokers support the ban because they recognise the negative health, social and economic effects of smoking, and think the ban will help to discourage people from smoking, and because they don't like experiencing cigarette smoke in outside areas of pub premises, and being exposed to some of the negative effects of smoking.
Mr badger - did you read the article? Nicotine has well documented adverse effects that have been known for a long time
To anyone daft enough to think vaping is safe, trust me, it isn't.
My missus worked as Molecular Toxicologist for one of if the UK vaping product providers in between real jobs and was quite clear that it has serious issues
Probably less than fags, but still far from harmless..
I think some smokers don’t want the ban because it will prevent them from indulging a habit that they currently pursue when they are at the pub.
Wow. Imagine that? Fancying a fag when you have a pint outdoors without some interfering busybody tutting at you and thinking there should be actual laws to stop you doing so.
How do you explain the fact that those of us objecting to this draconian nonsense on this thread are all non-smokers?
I think some non smokers support the ban because they recognise the negative health, social and economic effects of smoking, and think the ban will help to discourage people from smoking.
Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do. when the only justification is ‘I don’t like it’. luckily, for the present at least…
Just to reiterate:
because of the volume of road traffic, combining this toxic air with cigarette smoke greatly exaggerates the health risks of from merely breathing.
Therefore I can understand the govts logic.
but, you need to go with the Dutch example and legalise cannabis as the ‘accelerated learning’ (remedial) from the weed makes it easier for Joe Public to make small alterations to their behaviour and leave their cars behind…cafe style, without thousands of vehicles grumbling past.
just building a few cycle lanes isn’t enough.
carrot/ stick, etc.
There’s an easy solution to this. Let’s have a referendum on the issue, because they always go well.
But… the votes are weighted, depending on your beer garden usage. The referendum is in 12 months time and everyone gets a scorecard to have stamped on every Occasion they use a beer garden. To make things fair, votes are allocated on each visit depending on location and time of year
So,…
That place we went to in Ambleside after we’d been out walking in June? You remember? The place that did the nice homemade hummus? - 1 vote
The night ride we did at the end of October at Rivi which finished at that nice boozer but we were caked in mud and you wanted to vape, so we sat outside and it was bloody freezing! - 50 votes
That place we went to in Salford in January where you wanted a fag but the beer garden was two rotting benches in a concrete yard and you got a massive splinter in your arse? It was about -4 and the sleet was coming in horizontally - 100 votes
That seems fair 😀
It will help more people to quit by eliminating another situation where they might be encouraged to just smoke out of habit.
If this was the case you would have expected to see an acceleration of the rate of decline when the smoking ban came into effect in 2007, but as can be seen from the graphs below no such acceleration is discernible - if anything the opposite is the case.. One thing that has been successful but which has nothing to do with the government or the non-smoking pressure groups is vaping but they are going to screw that up too now.
Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do. when the only justification is ‘I don’t like it’. luckily, for the present at least…
Really? Really?
so no speed limits, no drink drive limits, heroin available in every corner shop? No need for any equality laws, ettc etc Fox hunting and bear baiting back in everyday life. Lets have cock fighting as well
As somone stuggling to stop smoking ( I have stopped and started a few times) the smoking ban was a huge help
So you’re not worrying about it being dangerous you just want to f*** a load of people over because your own fragile sensibilities are offended by the smell of a bit of fag smoke?
Please read what I write before arguing against something which is the opposite of what I said.
What do you do if someone farts in your vicinity? I suppose you’ll be banning that next?
If I was chain-farting in public I'd apologise and try to move away from others before dropping one if possible. Wouldn't you?
Do you feel that the whole of society should be forced, by threat of prosecution if necessary, to behave as you instruct them?
No but if the democratically elected government pass a law about some aspect of behaviour and it passes both houses and is bought into law then I think it's fair enough.
As somone stuggling to stop smoking ( I have stopped and started a few times) the smoking ban was a huge help
Eh? Last time I was out with you, you were still smoking. Unlike me 😛
As a smoker at the time it made ****all difference to me other than I had to go outdoors
Really? Really?
so no speed limits, no drink drive limits, heroin available in every corner shop? No need for any equality laws, ettc etc Fox hunting and bear baiting back in everyday life. Lets have cock fighting as well
Calm down dear. All those things have direct implications for others. Smoking in beer gardens doesn’t. We’re already established there are no health implications, it’s just you and others saying ‘I don’t like it so it should be banned’
I feel the same about rugby. Should I start a campaign to get that banned? I could get really draconian about that. Life imprisonment for wearing a polo shirt with ‘popped’ collars. That type of thing
Binners - what harm to others does heroin have? Bear baiting?
I started smoking again a few years ago. Stopped again now. stopped and started a few times.
@tjagain you don’t half talk some rubbish, the smoking ban in Scotland was 2006 it’s now 2024 and you’ve only just stopped smoking. So tell me how it helped?
I stopped several times and restatred again - once for five years around the time of the smoking ban 🙂
But you’ve smoked all the many years I’ve known you, you may have tried to stop but only lasted a couple of weeks, so I don’t think you can claim the smoking ban has helped you stop.
Binners – what harm to others does heroin have? Bear baiting?
Left to me, I’d legalise everything. Want to inject crack cocaine into your eyeballs? Fill your boots.
I’m thinking of buying a pub with a big beer garden, but you’re only allowed in there if you smoke or vape. Non-smokers can get tae ****! And if you turn up in a rugby top you get cast into a big pit where everyone gets to flick their fag butts at you 😛
There’s nothing bloody worse than an evangelical born again smoker
The law isn’t here to facilitate your lack of willpower 😛
Bikepawl - please do not tell me what I have and haven't done. I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s. I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.
Highly offensive to accuse me of lying because you cannot remember this
There’s nothing bloody worse than an evangelical born again smoker
This is clearly wrong
I used to stop smoking about once an hour for 30 years 😀
A mate of mine stopped smoking, the last I heard he was down to 20 "moments of weakness" a day.
(He's dead now, but that was down to the booze doing for him rather than the fags.)
Oh dear bit of an overreaction, guess the “herbal” cigarettes don’t count then?
I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s. I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.
So you literally stopped for years and still back to smoking even though you were no longer addicted and were fully aware of the dangers of smoking?
Did you maintain the same level of lecturing people over the evils of smoking throughout that period or did you suspend your lecturing during the periods that you smoked?
I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s. I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.
That means you’ve never stopped, just paused then started again.
It's abundantly clear TJ could give Rees-Mogg a run for his money in the top filibuster stakes and could have an argument in an empty room 😉
I keep peeking in here to see if it's starting to peter out, but no. It's like opening the door on a western saloon and seeing a massive melee with the air full of bottles and bar stools. Marshal TJ is still trying to run the baccy varmints out of town (whilst hiding a cheeky cheroot behind his back).
That means you’ve never stopped, just paused then started again.
Well if he didn't smoke for years at a time he would have been classed as an ex-smoker. I think the NHS considers anyone who hasn't smoked for at least a year to be an ex-smoker.
He certainly wouldn't have had any physical addiction nor nicotine in his system, that resolves itself over a matter of days, although the psychological addiction will obviously last for very much longer
If I was chain-farting in public I’d apologise and try to move away from others before dropping one if possible. Wouldn’t you
Oh come off it! Who hasn’t s****ed to themselves after squeaking out an SBD just before getting out of a lift?
I wasn't even aware that the correct protocol is to publicly apologise to everyone before moving away.
My strategy has always been to avoid doing it in public or failing that to quietly slip away without saying anything.
Who the **** apologises?
Who hasn’t s****ed to themselves after squeaking out an SBD just before getting out of a lift?
Years ago on a packed, standing room only tube carriage one morning after a heavy night. A leaving do involving a beer festival followed by a curry. People were literally retching and I was biting my tongue so hard to stop myself laughing it bled. Not proud.
You didn't apologise?
I think I'd have been lynched if I'd identified myself by apologising.
Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do.
Nonsense really. Lots of things you can't do, because of these things called laws and this thing called society. Things are changing. Old duffers will always struggle with change.
Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do.
I'm not dictating anything to anyone, but I do think the proposed smoking ban is a good idea.
If this was the case you would have expected to see an acceleration of the rate of decline when the smoking ban came into effect in 2007
Why would you expect to see an acceleration in the rate of decline? I would expect that the smoking rate would tend to plateau and stabilise unless you keep innovating and introducing new interventions or nudge factors, so merely the fact that smoking has continued to decline could be partly due to the original ban. That would need to be confirmed by a proper investigation, however; you can't tell just from a graph.
This study claims there was a statistically significant increase in the number of smokers trying to quit at the time the smoking ban was introduced (equivalent to 300,000 smokers)
