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If you think 13 years of Nu Labour looked anything like 13 years of Tory rule, in any kind of reality, you need your bumps feeling
PFI is a reasonably good example. It has been disastrous for the NHS and the country. It was an idea conceived by a Tory government but massively expanded by 'Nu Labour'.
The reason a Labour government was able to expand it so massively was because there was no effective opposition to it. Had a Tory government been in power Labour would have opposed it root and branch, as they did indeed all other Tory government privatisations.
Yup PFI has been an absolute disaster that we are still paying for, which strangely New Labour fanboys never seem to talk about.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo… are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I’m too much of a perfectionist……
Ah, he's back on form...... spouting gibberish as only binners can. And with pictures an all!
Welcome back binners 😉
Had a Tory government been in power Labour would have opposed it root and branch, as they did indeed all other Tory government privatisations.
And how many of those privatisations did they stop?
Just refresh my memory....
See what i mean about 'the left' being incapable of elevating itself beyond the mindset of the protest group?
Placard-wavers, and nothing more, seeking refuge in their own righteousness, unencumbered, as they always will be, by the compromises required with power
Oh cool binners is back to make the thread all about him again by repeating the same childish insults for the 72938028th time.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo… are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I’m too much of a perfectionist……
Try to contain your excitement about all this attention, it's not becoming.
See what i mean about ‘the left’ being incapable of elevating itself beyond the mindset of the protest group?
Probably a good point to pop in a reminder that much of "the left" are nothing like that. They are, in the main, practical, cooperative and very, very keen to help form an alternative government to the Conservative Party in the shape of the Labour Party. It is undeniable that many do fit your disruption... but please don't weigh their numbers using the amount of noise they make as a guide.
Oh cool binners is back to make the thread all about him again
I didn't make the thread about me. You lot did. As always.
You started it!! So there!!
See what i mean about ‘the left’
I remember when all Labour Party supporters considered themselves to be part of 'the left'.
And how many of those privatisations did they stop?
It limited privatisation to what the Tories thought they could get away with.
One of the first things 'Nu Labour' decided on becoming the government was, after years of opposing privatisation, that the Tories hadn't privatised enough and a lot more was needed.
Yeah, everything's relative though.
Would you be more comfortable with Looney Left or Far Left?
It limited privatisation to what the Tories thought they could get away with.
They clearly thought they could get away with anything then.
The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time. They rushed rail privatisation through in about a week as they knew they were about to get turfed out of office
Would you be more comfortable with Looney Left or Far Left?
Can I have Hard Left please? I've always wanted to sound hard.
Consider it done, you hard left bastard! 😀
It became that a long time ago. I’m being ganged up on by lefties. Poor me.
Yeah, but if you just stop posting for a bit, when you come back they'll have all split off into individual factions - criticising each other for their revisionism.
😂
The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time.
Absolute drivel. We could start with Thatchers famous comment about "not prepared to have the Queen's head privatised" and the threatened back bench rebellions around Heseltines proposals.
Or even how New Labour weaponised it in 97 before backtracking on it rapidly and utilising PFI which pushed it far further than before.
The only reason they stopped privatising things is because they literally ran out of time.
That's a weird way to say that they lost an election but yes had they won it they would have continued. Obviously New Labour took the batten and were able to carry on privatising without any effective opposition, see PFI as an example.
No wonder New Labour was backed by Rupert Murdoch and described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest achievement.
Btw glad you brought up railway privatisation binners. It was totally opposed by Labour, Thatcher made one failed attempt to privatise it, John Major managed it, New Labour were so opposed to it (allegedly) that they made a general election pledge to re-nationalise it.
But they were of course too busy privatisating when in government to do such a thing.
Yeah, yeah, we get it.
I don't like previous labour governments because they weren't labour enough for my liking
Its only the labour governments that were labour enough that I like, despite the fact that they don't exist as theres never one actually been elected, while any of us here have actually been alive.
I'm sure there will be a labour government elected one day thats labour enough for me...
One day...
possibly...
I hope so at least...
In the meantime... those bloody Israeli's eh? What are they like?
Yeah, yeah, we get it.
I don’t like previous labour governments because they weren’t labour enough for my liking
You obviously don't binners, you don't get it at all.
Every great reform in the last century which has benefited working people, and still benefits working people today, was implemented by a Labour Government.
The sort of reforms which you would have gone into a ranting meltdown over denouncing them as left-wing extremist nonsense.....a free universal healthcare, equal gender pay, decriminalisation of homosexuality, health and safety at work, the criminalisation of racial hatred, Open University, ending capital punishment, etc etc.
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence. Do you think it was because it was a vote winner among its white Anglo-Saxon voters?
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence.
That was handled well, wasn't it.
These history lessons are great... why are they in this thread?
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
Because binners brought it up with this sneering contemptuous remark :
"I don’t like previous labour governments because they weren’t labour enough for my liking"
He wants to portray the issue as the only choice is New Labour or nothing. That opposition to New Labour is opposition to Labour.
New Labour wasn't Labour, they even changed the name precisely to make that point clear, ffs.
New Labour wasn’t Labour, they even changed the name precisely to make that point clear, ffs.
There was only two words in the name and one of them is 'Labour'
That's quite Laboury
As Laboury as a labour ward, in fact
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
It gets a tad boring waiting for Starmer to demonstrate his carefully laid traps so have to do something. Especially now Johnson has figured out how easy Starmer is handled at PMQs by virtue of just ignoring him.
Because binners brought it up with this sneering contemptuous remark
So... we go all the way back to the partition of India, when some rich posh dude was PM under a Labour ticket? That was literally another political age.
Especially now Johnson has figured out how easy Starmer is handled at PMQs by virtue of just ignoring him.
Not answering the question will still be Johnson's MO when he gets to face whoever Starmer is replaced by. And the speaker will still be slapping him down to help Johnson persist with his "rules and truth are not for me, look upon by strength through ignorance" approach... bar a short honeymoon period... any Labour leader will face the same fate.
That’s quite Laboury
But not as Laboury as just calling it Labour.
Which of course was the point..... this wasn't just the Labour Party that everyone knew. This was something quite different, this was, in fact, New Labour.
And yet binners you want to peddle this nonsense that there is/was no alternative to New Labour.
You think that if you repeat TINA often enough it makes it true, a lesson learnt from Thatcher no doubt.
That was literally another political age.
In case you haven't noticed so was New Labour.
Yet binners wants to keep reliving 1997.
And bringing up false nonsense, such as claiming that a Labour government was responsible for designing the Austin Allegro, when discussing present-day nationalisation.
Oh, I thought he was replying. I'd much rather be talking about more recent Labour governments as well.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
Question:
These history lessons are great… why are they in this thread?
Answer part 1:
ernielynch
Answer part 2:
How about talking about future Labour governments?
That would be even better.
Better than talking about Attlee and partition in a thread about the current party leader.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
There won't be any if they insist on making themselves unelectable to the people who now feel alienated by the ENP (formerly the Conservatives).
Who mentioned partition??? That's the first I've heard it mentioned. You want to talk about it?
Binners would like to talk about anything as long as it's not about Starmer.
Not answering the question will still be Johnson’s MO when he gets to face whoever Starmer is replaced by.
As a radical idea though Starmer could try adjusting his position. Even just asking the same question everytime would be better than his current attempts.
Binners would like to talk about anything as long as it’s not about Starmer.
Thats not entirely true he quickly pivots to a new subject when he is proved wrong on the old one. Although admittedly he does seem to have a habit of dusting them off again later.
Who mentioned partition???
This guy...
Btw binners thanks for reminding us of foreign policy, yes it was a Labour government that gave the jewel in the crown, India, independence. Do you think it was because it was a vote winner among its white Anglo-Saxon voters?
Bang up to date, and something for us all to ponder about.
How about talking about future Labour governments?
There won't be any if Binners has his way, just continual neo-liberal socialism for the rich and ever increasing authoritarianism to keep the plebs in line when they inevitably kick off. People talk of disaster capitalism or the ludicrous idea of disaster socialism, when in reality it's the other way round. Centrism with it's head in the sand conservative elitism is the disaster, but not many can see it yet because just enough of us are still living relatively comfortable lives. It's not going to last.
Bang up to date, and something for us all to ponder about.
No mention of partition there.
Sounds like that history lesson is needed then. But can we save it for another thread?
Centrism with it’s head in the sand conservative elitism is the disaster
Sounds like that history lesson is needed then.
I do love yours and Binners sneering condescension. It was you who confused independence of India with the partition of India. Even those like Attlee who werent opposed to independence werent pro partition and tried to avoid it but failed.
It was you who confused independence of India with the partition of India.
Er... what the actual ****?
Kelvin I know you're missing Binner's pictures but really you should try harder. Unless I've missed something and you find the words 'centrism', 'conservative' and 'elitism' tricky to understand. Let me paraphrase in council estate scum vernacular. They're all a bunch of arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****! That better?
really you should try harder
I can't hope to get close to Binners on this... I'm hoping he'll be pushed into delivering more visual content by my awful attempts.
They’re all a bunch of arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****!
Who are "they"? Anyone not as left leaning as us? No wonder it's hard to win people over.
Who are “they”? Anyone not as left leaning as us? No wonder it’s hard to win people over.
Yes kelvin, as you keep reminding us, it's totally fine when binners repeatedly makes insulting generalisations about the Dead 'Ard Left but if anyone else does it you'll put on your thread police badge and jump right in and make sure they get told off.
Er… what the actual ****?
You claimed someone said partition when they didnt. They talked about the independence of India as a policy which Attlee championed having been in favour for years.
The partition of India followed from that but was not inevitable and not something supported by Attlee and the British government. Mountbatten was given orders to try and avoid it.
So it shows a poor grasp of political history to decide one meant the other with regards to Attlee.
When Binners says all the left share the same views and approach, I call him out. I think I did on the page before this one in this thread. That's no more useful or helpful than Dazh doing the same for people he views as centrists. Both these groups need to work together (in the Labour Party and/or across multiple parties) or it's Tory rule for the rest of our lives (I may have made that point already).
Who are “they”?
The politicians of all parties who refuse to defend the interests of normal working people and act as apologists for tiny number of people who benefit at everyone else's expense. Obvs.
That's nice and vague. What about current Labour MPs... are any of them "arrogant, cowardly self-interested c****" ? Would you label Starmer in such a way?
This guy…
Yeah only I didn't. You are obviously pretending that you don't understand the purpose of my reference.
Binners was very clearly suggesting, as he often does, that Israel's behaviour should be of no concern whatsoever to the Labour Party or a Labour government because it is not an issue of high priority for Labour voters.
When he falsely accused me of never thinking that a Labour government was ever going to be Labour enough he also threw in the contemptuous Israel comment.
I provided a list of achievements by past Labour governments and also pointed out that a Labour government could still have an ethical foreign policy even if the plight of brown people in distant far off lands wasn't the number one priority in most Labour voters minds.
Hope that helps.
Did the Brits give independence or did the Indians win it?
I provided a list of achievements by past Labour governments and also pointed out that a Labour government could still have an ethical foreign policy even if the plight of brown people in distant far off lands wasn’t the number one priority in most Labour voters minds.
India was part of the British Empire at that point. How it was handled was central to the role of the British government. It was forced into action by those that live there. I wouldn't hold up the way Labour handled that period, for that region of the world, as one of a list of "achievements by past Labour governments". The lessons to be learnt there are very much about the failures of government. Obviously far from the fault alone of that Labour government.... but.. an "achievement"?!?
are any of them
Yeah loads of them, Starmer included. They're so wrapped up in their careers and what they think is acceptable and within the rules of establishment politics they've completely lost sight of what they should be doing and what's in the best interests of working people.
Who else? Everyone in his cabinet? Or are there some that pass your tests working away in that team?
Or are there some
Not many TBH.
Well, that is depressing. There are definitely some I prefer to others... but even those I disagree with, or think are bit a useless, or perhaps self-concerned... a quick look at their opposite number on the government benches soon puts that into perspective.
one of a list of “achievements by past Labour governments”.
Yes mate "achievement", independence for India was an achievement which Labour should be proud of, Eric Heffer often spoke of it. Most other European colonial powers, France, Spain, Portugal, fought hard not give up their colonies post WW2, a British Labour government willingly granted the Jewel in the British Empire independence.
Btw any cyclists on this thread? I am currently trying to remove an aluminium seized seatpost from a steel frame.
I've just tried a hot air gun but according to Sheldon Brown aluminium expands twice as much as steel, so obviously not helping.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
WD40 then hit it with a big soft hammer?
For weeks I've been squirting dismantling lube into the area, today I got the heat gun out. Sat next to it now defeated ☹️
Sheldon Brown suggest CO2 on the aluminium seat post to shrink it. Anyone tried that before I waste a CO2 cylinder?
Ernie if all else fails I believe there's a man in Lancashire somewhere called 'the seatpost man' who claims to be able to free any seatpost. I'll ask around for his details. 🙂
Seatpost in a vice and then turn the frame?
Thanks Daz but the bike only cost me 20 quid, I bought it so that I could leave round the back of the local shops without bothering to lock it up.
Although I've fallen strangely in love with it. It's got coaster brakes which I have never used before, more weird than I expected.
Yes mate “achievement”, independence for India was an achievement which Labour should be proud of
The Labour government rushed it, bodged it, and left millions dead or displaced as refugees.
Seatpost? Cut it off. Cut a slit in it where the frame has a slit. Fit a smaller diameter post. Will probably need shims.
Unfortunately I haven't got a workbench vice Bill.
I've mullered the post enough with a selection of tools.
I might give the CO2 thing a go, never heard of it before.
Starmer needs to gain the confidence to tell the Speaker to do one when he lets Johnson get away with nothing further than a gentle ticking off.
Ian Blackford is the only competent opposition at the moment.
Christ I leave this thread for 48hrs or so to do some filming stuff, come back and we're talking about India!
If you think 13 years of Nu Labour didn't look anything like 13 years of Tory rule, in any kind of reality, you need your bumps feeling
That works better.
It was still market economics with shiny Guardian tinkering at the seems to make a Centrist's feel competent if not ideological. Nicely deregulated markets and BoE 'independence'.
Ernie, know anyone with an empty chest freezer?
I don't know anyone with enough room in their freezer for a bike colp, if that's what you're thinking.
Now we’ve expanded the brief from Israel to India, I’ve found a documentary series to do some research on the subject
Yes! Binners has regained his picture posting mojo!!
What happened geezer?.... I was getting worried you had lost your spark recently.
I’m like Cav. I’m having a renaissance
For your seat post: take the wheels off, put the seat/seat post in a vice, then turn the frame. It gives you the leverage, rather than fancying around trying to turn a seat post
Unfortunately I haven’t got a workbench vice
You don't need a vice. Just a suitably sized gap between two immovable objects to insert the saddle into, then twist like hell.
Also applicable for many politicians.
Also applicable for many politicians.
Made me laugh.
Thanks binners and Mark, unfortunately my powerful vice-like grip simply managed to disconnect the saddle fixing gubbins from the rest of the seat post, so I was left with a post but no saddle, making it even harder to ride the bike than having the seat a couple of inches too low.
I've jammed it back on, it's very tight so should still be able to ride down to the shops.
I might give the Sheldon Brown suggestion of lowering the temperature of the aluminium post with CO2 sometime, trying to figure out if a hot water bottle wrapped round the steel frame at the same time is worth attempting.
I can see myself spunking all my CO2 cylinders with "let's give it one more try".
And Keir Starmer thinks he's got problems, eh?!
Chop the post close to the frame and then get a hacksaw blade and saw from the inside. Massively time consuming but will get it.
I would do that if it was only a few inches into the seat tube, but God knows how long it is. I don't even know if it won't be longer than the hacksaw blade minus the bit you need to hold. Can you imagine how springy and whipping around the end of the hacksaw blade would be?! At least I can still ride it as it is.
I thought I had sussed it when I put the bike upside and squirted dismantling spray through the bottle cage boss hole. I guess though it simply went into the inside of the seat post, and my cunning plan failed.
At least I can still ride it as it is.
Err, what’s the problem then?
Anyway, just ride it round Keir Starmer’s neck of the woods (you can’t be far from him) and he’ll eventually run you over in his Range Rover and mangle the bike, making the seat post a non-issue.
The seat is a couple of inches too low, it's single speed, and I live on a hill. Apart from there isn't a problem.
Yeah Starmer was brought up not that far from me, no idea where he lives now, but making the national headlines as the man who stalked Starmer on a 20 quid bike with the seat too low doesn't appeal to me that much.
If nothing else I'd like to get the saddle up to a reasonable height just for my self-respect.
Who are “they”?
Anyone the aforementioned 'white working class heroes' are jealous of, basically.
Yep, that's the way to do it in Brexit Britain - appeal to resentment and petty jealousy.
🤔
Just a suitably sized gap between two immovable objects
Ernie stand next to Binners then... (sorry folks couldn't resist. 😉 )
@ernielynch - can you heat the steel frame up instead of the alu seatpost to try and loosen it that way? Alternatively, if you don't mind knackering the seat post completely, instead of a vice, drill a hole through the vertical sides of the seat post - large bolt and nut - then everyone's favourite fix - hit bolt with a lump hammer.