Obvious troll is obvious.
For gods sake, be adult.
NHS funding not increasing with inflation
Total tory fault along with tory reorganisation wasting money. 10% of NHS spending in england wasted on tory market dogma
Sorry, that just sounds like dogma.
My wages haven't increased with inflation. My standard of living has went up though.
For gods sake, be adult.
If you'll stop trying to be a wind up merchant.
I don’t think you fall into this category Brads
You're accusing me of cultural bias as opposed to thinking ?
Seriously ? you have to be making that up to provoke me , no ?
If you’ll stop trying to be a wind up merchant.
Does anyone else think I'm on the wind up as opposed to actually having a discussion about a politician I had high hopes for ?
Who, Thatcher?
Troll ?
Its obvious that either you are trolling or have a serious comprehension and empathy failure.
So not you then.
I am neither, but I suspect you know that but just don't want a discussion, just a rant.
They will have a struggle in Scotland because exactly the opposite happened last time round.
I don’t think Starmer has any chance of enabling a Labour recovery in Scotland, that’s a whole problem he can’t do anything about yet, in my opinion. TJ has started another thread about that though. Join in there if you want.
a discussion about a politician I had high hopes for ?
When you say “High Hopes”, what were you hoping he would do or say?
I find him dull, but have accepted for now that he looks to have a reasonable idea about how to show that the Labour Party are ready to move into government. He’s slowly dismantling the idea (with help from his opposite number) that Labour have their heads in the cloud, and the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy and general day to day business of running the government and all that entails.
Change Labour and actually make it a viable option.
And be a powerful opposition. Someone who offered alternatives that could not be ignored.
Think Kier Hardie crossed with Jimmy Reid
Someone with a solution and the skills to put it across with integrity.
In six months? During this medical emergency? With four years ‘till an election? Right… I think he is changing Labour, and people’s opinion/view of the party, as it happens.
Back to the topic. concerted attacks all day from shadow cabinet and norther mayors on tory incompetence. Looks to me like a deliberate ramping up of attacks. good politics again. Harness the anger people feel and direct at those responsible. make the tories own the mess they have made of covid response.
In six months? During this medical emergency? With four years ‘till an election? Right</blockquo
I want details.
You obviously don't want my opinion so best ignore my posts. Actually half bottle of wine and some home brewed porter in me so excuse any touchiness hahaha
Perhaps you should give details about what's required, without the anti Tory blurb.
I absolutely do want your opinion, hence the questions. What do you want him to do or say? What would he have to do to start winning you over to voting Labour?
Well I stated above some of the attitude I'd like to see.
I get that it takes time, but really, up till now all he has done is been a talking head , disagreeing and offering nothing.
Question, guys.
It's Starmer privy to all the scientific data/advice given to Johnson /Cummings regarding Covid?
In a word no
They're running the country from Cummings summer house, half the cabinet don't know WTF is happening on a daily basis. What makes you think they'd show Labour their workings?
Poor quality management is an issue but as for the mess its in – that is totally the tories fault
Nope, no way, you're not getting that.
NHS is devolved in Scotland as you damn well know, it has been under SNP government control for 13 years now and whilst we see lots of roads and bridges getting cash spaffed on them we are left with substandard crap like QE Hospital and mental health care barely better than south of the border. The NHS is a bloody mess up here as well but don't pretend we couldn't have done anything to change that.
Nope aquirrelking
Scotland has a capped budget. the NHS is something like half of all government spending. to spend more on the NHS would have meant huge cuts elsewhere. If the scots government could raise money I will give you that but as they cannot then its totally the tories fault.
the SNP government took one huge decision that made a huge positive impact on the NHS - remove the fake internal market which took 10% of the entire NHS budget to administer
There is very little the scots government could have done beyond what they have - and the NHS in Scotland is significantly better than in england
I get that it takes time, but really, up till now all he has done is been a talking head
The Tory party has a genuinely massive majority. A talking head is pretty much Starmers only option until votes are cast.
Change Labour and actually make it a viable option.
And be a powerful opposition. Someone who offered alternatives that could not be ignored.
If you actually look at opinion polls it seems hes very much turning labour into a viable option and making back ground from the Corbyn era, remember hes got 4 years to make this ground back. A week or so ago he (Kier) was up now its neck and neck again. But thats fact rather than a sweeping generalisation.
Big presser putting the boot into Johnson and co big time with a couple of tasty soundbites - and cleverly being supportive of the right measures so he canot be accused of simply saying no and opposing everything. Very good work
“Why isn’t this guy PM instead?”
I find labour just come across as trying to score political points - Corbyn did it - and now Starmer seems to do from what I’ve seen.
What we actually need opposition to be is full of proper proposals rather than just either mocking the current government or saying we need to spend more when we have a deficit rapidly going the wrong way.
Traditionally I’ve voted Tory but at the last election I voted Lib Dem in the hope there was an option inbetween labour and the tories that might try to do the right thing. Boris Johnson is a joke as PM and SKS doesn’t look a better option to me.
What we actually need opposition to be is full of proper proposals
And what do you expect to happen with the proposals?
Erm - hasn’t he just suggested a proposal, as suggested by the science?
He suggested the shutdown, one week of which would coincide with schools’ planned half-term break later this month, could be used to upgrade the UK’s beleaguered test-and-trace system. The Sage minutes said test and trace was having only a “marginal” impact on the spread of the disease.
The Guardian Today newsletter: the headlines, the analysis, the debate – sent direct to you
Read moreStarmer suggested schools could remain open, but many other businesses would close. “It would mean only essential work and travel. That everyone who can work from home should do so. Non-essential offices should be closed. Household mixing should be restricted to one household except for those who’ve formed support ‘bubbles’. And all pubs, bars and restaurants would be closed for two to three weeks – but compensated so that no business loses out because of the sacrifices we all need to make. It should also mean the UK Parliament moves to remote working,” he said.
Starmer called on the prime minister to face down lockdown sceptics in his party, and said Labour would lend him the votes he would need to get the measure agreed by the House of Commons.
“You know that the science backs this approach. You know that the restrictions you’re introducing won’t be enough … So act now. Break the cycle. If you do you will have the votes in the House of Commons. I can assure you of that. You don’t need to balance the needs of your party against the national interest.
Boris Johnson is a joke as PM and SKS doesn’t look a better option to me.
I'm not wild about Starmer but how can you say he doesn't look a better option, by a country mile? I really don't get it. A highly successful and principled lawyer/DPP vs a reckless/****less 'journalist' chancer sacked for lying on more than one occasion.
I’ve got houseplants that could do a better job of this than Joris Bohnson.
I doubt that at the start of a global pandemic Kier Starmer would have been dodging Cobra meetings, going on repeated holidays, then boasting about having walked around a hospital ward shaking hands with everyone who had Covid.
Instead, he’d have taken it seriously.
It makes you wonder where we’d be now if we’d have had SKS in charge instead of that lazy, ****less ****-wit in February
binners
Instead, he’d have taken it seriously.
I think that's the crux of it
If I’ve got this right, Captain Hindsight:
- has criticised the government for both following and not following the science
- wants a national lockdown because that’s following the science - even though the WHO have warned against this approach only this week
- has criticised the government for not consulting the regions and tailoring the plans - but is now proposing a top down national lockdown with no advance consultation with those same regions
- has criticised the government for not protecting jobs but now proposes to shut down all areas of the economy even in the areas where the rate of transmission is under control. And also hasn’t got a clue how much this will cost.
It seems to me that Sir Kier is just playing schoolboy politics - for all the talk of constructive opposition he’s doing the exact opposite.
All in all pretty disappointing- effective opposition is the bedrock of our democracy and we’ll clearly limp on as we are for a while longer.
Brilliant press conference by Starmer. The SAGE report finally gave him the chance to properly expose the incompetence of the government and propose a realistic alternative without it looking like simple political point scoring. Offering to support the government if they take that option and provide the support it would need.
I was beginning to wonder if playing the long game was going to be all he ever did, but he waited till he had enough rope to hang the government with.
He's convinced me he could be a decent PM at least.
“If only this guy was in charge.”
I find labour just come across as trying to score political points – Corbyn did it – and now Starmer seems to do from what I’ve seen.
You do realise they're politicians don't you? Like Boris and his mates, or any other politician for that matter, haven't tried to 'score political points'?
or saying we need to spend more when we have a deficit rapidly going the wrong way.
Economically illiterate as well as politically illiterate, you're not doing well here.
I voted Lib Dem
It all becomes clear.
^^^^
Careful, daz. You'll be sticking up for Starmer next...
The only annoying thing about it is that now he has laid out what is the correct way forward, the typical response of this government is to double down and ignore this option even longer, simply because it will look like they have caved to the opposition.
BBC article 'senior government source' says 'Starmer is shameless opportunist'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54528807
**** me Cummings accusing Starmer of opportunism... 😂
The only annoying thing about it is that now he has laid out what is the correct way forward, the typical response of this government is to double down and ignore this option even longer, simply because it will look like they have caved to the opposition.
If you rely on 'image' and 'style' over substance then this really is the logical course of action.
Johnson and his ilk have no actual substance whatsoever. Just bluff, bluster and bullshit whilst they enable their mates to make the heist of a lifetime. Then it's off into the sunset.
And 'we' voted for it.
F***'s sake.
**** me Cummings accusing Starmer of opportunism…
Post-truth = post-shame.
Nothing should be surprising about all this.
I’m not wild about Starmer but how can you say he doesn’t look a better option, by a country mile? I really don’t get it. A highly successful and principled lawyer/DPP vs a reckless/****less ‘journalist’ chancer sacked for lying on more than one occasion.
Don't forget conspiring to get a reporter assaulted, openly racist, known to have had the odd affair and can't even tell people how many kids hes got. We can also throw in appointing a homophobic misogynist as a trade negotiator if you want too. i mean he sounds like a right top bloke just who i want running this country /sarcasm
As far as I can see, Starmer is quite happy to support the things the govt do/propose that make sense, and call them out on all their crap decisions and incompetence. Hardly his fault that there’s been far more of the latter than the former.
And I don’t get why people want to know what his policies on this, that and the other are right now. It’s about as relevant as what my policies are, neither of us can implement them. In 4 years time circumstances will be very different and his policies to deal with whatever they are will be relevant at that point. If he doesn’t have any by then he can be rightly criticised for it.
**** me Cummings accusing Starmer of opportunism… 😂
And in the Guardian article Johnson is quoted as telling the 1922 Committee that Starmer is careering about like a broken shopping trolley. I thought for a moment it was a Guardian typo.
