Brads doesn’t like “lefties”, so I doubt it.
It's actually intolerant, cancelers I can't be arsed with.
Have a view, just don't ram it down others throats with a dogmatic attitude.
But yeh, lefties are tits.
People still supporting Starmer as he lurches forward to rich donors?
Mr "I support the government" is heading for a double disaster. The Tories will out right-wing him on all the Red Wall related issues and the left are being made homeless.
He actually said - "things were getting ridiculous" at PMQs - getting ridiculous. Schools back-firing? Mr "I support the government."
A party afloat with no rudder, no alternative and no sense of purpose.
But competent like.
But keep on talking down Marxism Binners. That's the centrist spirit.
Centrists such as Freedland are culpable too for where we are for the constant baying of personality to its readership. These columnist idiots (Rawnsley, Toynbee) certainly helped Boris in his mission. And yet take no responsibility for where we are now.
But yeh, lefties are tits.
Then be stuck with the direction of the country.
what the point in putting effort and resources into bleating on about alternatives
We were told we had a functioning opposition by the left's greatest supporter George Osborne. I mean when you have endorsements from failed right-wing chancellors who needs the electorate.
What bloody resources? You mean the whole purpose of holding the government to account and starting the narrative to give the electorate an alternative?
Is he still playing the long game?
You're right though the opposition is clearly there to support the government in its shambolic existence. Because that's exactly what its doing.
In uncle Keirs own words - "I support the Government."
Wears a nice suit though.
There are times when the opposition needs to show support of the government, in non partisan issues like say a global pandemic for example to help try and get a unified message out that the majority of people could have a chance at understanding without conflicting stuff going on making it even harder for them.
There are times when the opposition needs to show support of the government, in non partisan issues like say a global pandemic
Even if that government is doing a terrible job? Even if their mishandling results in thousands of excess deaths? Even when they show utter contempt for the poor?
Even when they are awarding millions of pounds of business to associates without due process or putting them to tender?
Ok, I can agree that some support in the messaging of things would be a role of an opposition, but they are there to hold the government of the day to account and should be highlighting and opposing poor decision making and corruption as well.
With his government, I see providing support to good decisions as being really quite difficult. They seem intent on not making many good decisions.
There’s a thin line between directly objecting to the government and giving people the belief to abandon things likes mask wearing and social distancing.
And subsidise Lens expense account?
No thanks
So it's sniping from the sidelines. A tactic you employed for many years for Labour.
Even if that government is doing a terrible job?
I think the opposition have been continually making it very clear that the government are doing a terrible job. They have supporting social distancing measures, so as not to to muddy the messaging there, but have been highly critical of endless government failures.
What was it that Starmer accused the government of yesterday…? Oh yes…
“intergalactic incompetence”
…not exactly praise, is it?
There’s a thin line between directly objecting to the government and giving people the belief to abandon things likes mask wearing and social distancing.
There really isn't. Also if anyone is giving people the belief to abandon those things then it's the government so opposition may actually help
Centrists such as Freedland are culpable too for where we are for the constant baying of personality to its readership. These columnist idiots (Rawnsley, Toynbee) certainly helped Boris in his mission. And yet take no responsibility for where we are now.
Come the glorious revolution, comrade, they'll be off to the re-education camps to learn the error of their ways.
And subsidise Lens expense account?
No thanks
So it’s sniping from the sidelines. A tactic you employed for many years for Labour.
Back in the 90's I worked on the unionised chemical plants on Merseyside. I've met more than enough of the Len McClusky's of this world, thanks very much.
I've seen how they all operate. They're all the *ing same. Little Derek Hattons. Gobshites. Spouting revolutionary socialist rhetoric to the terminally gullible, drunk on their own perceived power, while lining their own pockets.
Does Lens lifestyle look very 'socialist' to you? Some are very much more equal than others, eh, comrade? Len McClusky doesn't give flying * about anyone other than Len McClusky.
He's squatted at the top of the labour party for far too many years having far too much influence, with far too little accountability (5.5% of the Unite membership - some 'mandate', eh?).
I think it'll do Starmer the world of good, in the eyes of the vast majority of the electorate, to be condemned by the likes of Len and Jeremy, who they always saw as a totally unelectable 'loony' lefty rabble.
I've seen that the Corbynite lefties have been tweeting away #Starmerout and other nonsense this week in their little echo chambers. All that actually does is underline their irrelevance and their welcome return to the 70's political cul-de-sac from which they were allowed to temporarily emerge.
Meanwhile, the grown ups are back in charge of the labour party and are busy trying to repair the damage these idiots did and make the party electable again.
That won't happen overnight and I think they're doing a pretty good job. And you can see that the Tory's do too. And thats what matters. A laour government now looks like a serious possibility. It certainly didn't last December, did it? I call that progress
Back in the 90’s I worked on the unionised chemical plants on Merseyside. I’ve met more than enough of the Len McClusky’s of this world, thanks very much.
When you were working in industry did you stand for union elections and campaign for alternative leadership?
When you were working in industry did you stand for union elections and campaign for alternative leadership?
Binners' CV may or may not warrant a thread of its own. This thread is about the evidently competent starmer.
I was in my early 20's. Union reform wasn't at the top of my list of priorities at the time, no. Getting the hell out of dodge into a saner profession very definitely was.
Like most people on the sites, we just accepted that the Len mcClusky's of this world were just a fact of life that you couldn't do much about. Like the Tory party. Or herpes
Len mcluskey distancing himself from Starmer is just what's needed, Starmer just got more electable
Peston last night had a good polling stat : 75% of red wall switchers still back Johnson over Starmer
Which sucks for Starmer, but at the same time 25% now do back him, some of those seats were very close too.
Those seats are very close indeed. My own constituency went Tory. There was a recount and our new Tory MP sits on a whacking great majority of 100 votes. Its not going to take much of a swing for that to return to labour. Particularly given how rapidly our new Borisite is alienating his constituents
What we have to remember though, is that 'normal' politics is on hold during the pandemic.
It's going to be back with a vengeance in January when the land of milk and honey promised by Boris and his merry band of Brexiteers turns into the reality of a no deal crash out, with all the economic pain that will entail. It's the 'red wall' seats that will be hit hardest.
So much for 'levelling up'
I'd be interested to see how Starmer is cutting through to more affluent marginal seats in the south east, with Tory MPs sat on slim majorities, where the idea of voting for someone like Corbyn was simply unimaginable to most voters.
The overall polling would suggest he's making quite an impact there.
I see the Lib Dem Guardian's sad obsession with Len McCluskey has done its job.
Peston last night had a good polling stat : 75% of red wall switchers still back Johnson over Starmer
Hardly a surprise that the northern idiots haven't changed their mind. As they proved in the 2019 election, they struggle to use their few braincells to see whats in their best interests and are far happier with someone like Boris pulling on their bigoted heartstrings. f*** 'em!
I was in my early 20’s. Union reform wasn’t at the top of my list of priorities at the time, no.
So you sniped from the sidelines while doing absolutely nothing about it. How surprising.
Look, I'm no fan of McCluskey, but:
i) Most of his members either voted for him or weren't bothered either way.
ii) He's reiterated his union's support for the Labour party and its continued affiliation
iii) He's retiring next year
I see the Lib Dem Guardian’s sad obsession with Len McCluskey has done its job.
Yeah, we're all just brainwashed drones, capitalist lackeys, totally incapable of independent thought, who need our opinions spoon-feeding to us by the Media.
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left. Jeremy Corbyn was the living sanctimonious embodiment of it.
If you don't see the wisdom of my superior arguments, as I'm obviously right about everything, then thats because you're clearly thick and gullible.
Anyway... It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!! 😀
those who decry Starmer for not being radical enough and / or for not putting policy out there yet have you read this?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/04/we-have-a-mountain-to-climb-keir-starmer-on-winning-the-next-election
"He thinks that “after the first six months, people feel we’ve taken an important step on that journey and that we’re now climbing the mountain.” So now, he says: “We are moving to a new phase.” This will involve answering the question: “What’s our positive vision for the country? And I mean vision; I don’t mean policy. Four years from an election, we’re not setting out policy. Vision. The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
Yeah, we’re all just brainwashed drones, capitalist lackeys, totally incapable of independent thought, who need our opinions spoon-feeding to us by the Media.
You're inferring way too much there. My simple point was that the guardian have a habit of stoking labour divisions, and in particular love a bit of gossip about Len, when everyone's looking in the other direction. No one outside the sad, self-obsessed and infantile bubble of internal labour politics gives a shit about what Len does or says, so why does the Guardian keep drawing attention to him?
Why do they keep drawing attention to him?
Len is a shamelessly ego-crazed narcissist. He never misses a chance to get his stupid gurning mug on the telly or all over social media. How did he announce the latest move? With a big interview on Newsnight, following a 2 page interview in the Observer.
Nobody draws more attention to Len McClusky than Len ****ing McClusky.
He'd turn up for the opening of an envelope
Anyway… It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!!
Subject to government shut down of pubs that's likely to be announced
They'll shut them on Monday but announce it today. The whole country is going to spend the weekend getting absolutely leathered
Anyway… It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!! 😀
I was planning on getting out on the roadie this weekend, let me see what the Mrs has planned for me.
Subject to government shut down of pubs that’s likely to be announced
Sunday is the last day to for a proper piss-up isn't it?
It's looking that way. Well I would have been spending the afternoon in the beer garden of the Shoulder anyway, as the Hillclimb was on, so why change the habit of the last ten years.
It was 2 years ago when you rode it and I had a pint waiting for you at the top. A pretty respectable time too.
Why do they keep drawing attention to him?
Because it's clickbait for people like you.
Because it’s clickbait for people like you.
Says the man who sole contribution to political threads is literally just posting sad personal responses to binners.
Says the man who sole contribution to political threads is literally just posting sad personal responses to binners.
Always happy to help STW with its advertising revenue.
Typical capitalist response
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left. Jeremy Corbyn was the living sanctimonious embodiment of it.
Seen it all before. as long as you remain a 'pet' of the left, they will shower you with love and understanding for your struggle, take charge of your own destiny, however right or wrong that decision turns out to be(red wall tories for instance) then you are to be mocked and abused.
You only need to look at places like the middle east to see this in action, oppressed by dictators= we're with you in your struggle brothers, take up arms against those dictators = you are now instruments of the capitalist west and therefore dead to us.
Typical capitalist response
Insightful.
“What’s our positive vision for the country? And I mean vision; I don’t mean policy. Four years from an election, we’re not setting out policy. Vision. The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
It really shouldn't take 6 months to do a vision statement, get the senior members of the shadow cabinet together and thrash it out in an afternoon. Then start pushing It all over social media and reference it every time you
And although I can see why an opposition wouldn't want to lay out all the policies (because the other party(ies) just nick them) they should identify the one policy that is kryptonite to the Tories (hint, it's electoral reform, they are sh*t scared of the idea of not having fptp because all the other biases are at risk)
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left
Says the person who trots out "sixth form", "grown ups now in charge" and so on. Mr Irony doesnt pay you many visits does he?
Getting back to Starmer. Nice to see in reaction to the tories not providing evidence he is not going to do anything so radical as vote against the government until they provide something more convincing.
evening comrade!
Mr Irony doesnt pay you many visits does he?
That’s quite sexist
he is not going to do anything so radical as vote against the government
Is that a vote that would prevent the government from acting to introduce measures quickly if the figure go upwards fast in the next few weeks? If so... there is no way the Labour party needs "these deaths are because the opposition stand in the way of the emergency measures" thrown at their feet.
The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
Well that would be marvelous but in the meantime what I want to see from Starmer is less of the the forensic lawyer persona and to show a bit of passion. I can't believe I'm saying this but Ed Milliband showed more passion doing his turn as stand-in at Prime minister's Questions than Starmer has showed in his whole tenure as Leader of the Opposition so far.
Johnson shows passion. Starmer is too dull to get that kind of fake boosterism to work. He needs to keep on being him… and hope the country gets wise to that nonsense… or more likely just get Labour excepted as a potential government ready for the next leader.
Milliband showed more passion doing his turn as stand-in at Prime minister’s Questions than Starmer has showed in his whole tenure as Leader of the Opposition so far.
Miliband, god bless him, excited no one as leader though, did he? He’s doing great in his new job though. A minister in waiting… no own believed in him as a potential PM though, did they? Just me?
Did you read the Guardian article?
First thing is to show competence and to expose Johnsons incompetence. Done
Next step is to hammer them for the mistakes made while not giving the tory press any ammo. A shift of emphasis and one that is working well
These things cannot be accomplished overnight in a single hit - its takes months
later comes the positive vision and right before the election comes policies to suit the time we find ourselves in
Starmer has the route to power mapped out and so far is doing IMO a fantastic job. Just needs to find something to make it possible to vote labour in Scotland again for me to vote for them and thats going to be a big step and perhaps one beyond Starmer.
Miliband, god bless him, excited no one as leader though, did he?
That's my point. He still appeared more animated and passionate than Starmer who comes across like a stuffed shirt.
Starmer is too dull to get that kind of fake boosterism to work.
I don't want fake boosterism I want him to show a bit, just a bit, of real passion. Johnson's killed more British civilians than Hitler managed to. I would have thought that might be worth getting emotional about.
You want a performance. I don’t think he can deliver that, even if now was the time. If he tries to win over people that way, he’s doomed to fail. What you want is someone like Lammy as leader. So do I. Not going to happen right now… making Labour a party of government (in the eyes of the voters) requires something quite different to that kind of passionate outpouring.
Starmer is providing good, calm leadership and I pretty much agree with what TJ said. I think that him and Raynor provide a good balance at the head of the party. After Corbyn (who I don't dislike btw, I just don't think he was a leader) I think that Labour are back on track.
I have no time for Raynor. Dimwitted and a political liability
I can’t see why anyone would want some kind of ‘performer’ at the moment. When you look at the sorry state of the great performer and court jester himself.
Not looking good, is he? Even he seems to realise that last orders has been called on that tired routine.
As the polls are showing, the country is looking for some sober, competent leadership.
The contrast between Starmer and Johnson grows more pronounced by the day
