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And as we know Labour won't have any money due to BS about responsibility with public finances. I suppose if we are lucky we could see Rachel Reeves lose her seat.
BS about responsibility with public finances
Labour are planning much more investment, funded by borrowing (people understand that term).
Labour are planning more day to day spending, funded by tax changes (like that VAT example in Klunk's video).
Labour will also be reassuring voters that they will be responsible with public finances (get over it).
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Oooo... Starmer deep fake on Radio4 World at One.
Like I said, BS
None of that seems, on the face of it, anything other than standard “we can do better than that lot” opposition electioneering tub-thumping. Where’s the “utter bobbins”?
As already said, Streeting is little more than a shill for private healthcare corps. You can bet he'll be talking to various dodgy types about private care homes to move the 'bed blockers' onto; nothing he does is for the good of the people. It's a given he will become very, very wealthy once his time in politics is over. His nest is being lined as we speak. No surprise from a nasty little crook like that; he takes his cues from his family of thieves and scammers.
his family of thieves and scammers
In case anyone was wondering... his Mum was born in prison, Grandmother and Grandfather both did time:
A different tale to most of our politicians, for sure.
I can't stand Streeting, but attack him for what he does and what he politically represents, attack him for being a tory spiv, but not for where he came from.
Agree, he should be getting praise for where he has got to based on his upbringing. I still dislike him though!
I can’t stand Streeting, but attack him for what he does and what he politically represents, attack him for being a tory spiv, but not for where he came from.
I was also born and raised in the east end, but unlike Streeting's, my family didn't rob and steal from others. If we didn't have something, we went without, we didn't resort to crime and making others suffer. This mindset has clearly continued with him, in his self-serving lack of empathy and choice to be a shill for (often unscrupulous) corporate interests over the needs of greater society, particularly the most vulnerable.
Agree, he should be getting praise for where he has got to based on his upbringing
Why? Plenty of people have succeeded in spite of growing up in poverty, without their families resorting to crime. So praise them instead.
Why? Plenty of people have succeeded in spite of growing up in poverty, without their families resorting to crime. So praise them instead.
"He" is not "his family". I am certainly not mine.
The ability of folk to find a reason to squabble rather than unite for a greater good never ceases to amaze me.
Why? Plenty of people have succeeded in spite of growing up in poverty, without their families resorting to crime. So praise them instead.
When they get mentioned in the thread I certainly will.
"Wes Streeting says Labour has been too nostalgic about NHS as he argues it needs reform not extra money "
https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1749732507707400666?s=20
Lethal Tory simpleton.
The NHS needs to be run for redundancy not efficiency.
It's cut to the bone.
Private providers in the NHS have always been there, and will always be there.
That could be cured by applying the dental healthcare model, they would all be gone inside a parliamentary term.
That could be cured by applying the dental healthcare model, they would all be gone inside a parliamentary term.
I've had to pay through the nose twice to go elsewhere for private dental care when my dental practice (where I'm an NHS patient) couldn't get the staff and I was in pain and bleeding... so while there may be things to learn there for GPs and other NHS services, there's an awful lot wrong with how GDPs work, ask anyone who can't get a dentist locally at all. And plenty of dental practices are private providers of NHS care anyway. I think I've only ever been on the NHS list at privately owned practices my whole life. Oh, and all the dentists I've known personally have been private contractors providing NHS services... none have been direct employees of the NHS, not one.
The NHS needs to be run for redundancy not efficiency.
health spending has very marginally grown (as in 0.1%/year real terms) under this govt, removing additional covid spend. However it's gone disproportionately to the big hospitals - where the power resides in the system - not to primary care let alone social care, or public health in local authorities - which are how you keep people away from the more expensive bits of the system where no one wants to end up.
Don't tell me it's wrong to look at how to do this stuff better. And don't tell me that doing stuff better means cutting into the bone.
He is a paid shill for american healthcare companies and has made it clear he wants mote privitisation. He is an utter shite
he wants mote privitisation
We're going to need to make more use of existing private provision AND to increase the staffing levels in the public sector (both NHS and in a NCS if we ever get one). Short term, reducing waiting times means getting NHS patients seen by anyone and everyone... longer term the NHS (and the care system) needs more people employed by, and working for, the state system.
There is no spare capacity in private healthcare and a limited pool of staff. More privitisation means longer waits as private healthcare is less efficient. 10 years ago there were no waits in private healthcare - now its months
Where do you think all this spare capacity is coming from?
Private healthcare is the same pool of resources and labour that could/should be available to the NHS
Stop making excuses for its existence.
This so ridiculous that it shouldn't even need mentioning.
Don’t tell me it’s wrong to look at how to do this stuff better. And don’t tell me that doing stuff better means cutting into the bone.
Looking at doing stuff better is just an excuse to privatise more of it in this example.
Funding is the easy bit - the moron that is Streeting is pretending it isn't.
The knock on of state investment is growth in the private sector and a funded NHS. Anything else is lies.
We actually don't need a private healthcare service.
Many working in the private sector would otherwise be working abroad. Escapees from the NHS who couldn't cope with the pressures of understaffing and bottlenecks. Long term the NHS needs more staff, and the care system needs fixing to free up capacity. Short term the private sector needs to be used to bridge us to that... it's a 10 year job to sort out NHS staffing and the care system, minimum. The public will want, and expect, things to begin to turn around when it comes to access to services far sooner than that.
There is no spare capacity in the private sector. Thats the truth. The limitation is workforce and money. Privater sector is also LESS efficient so actually increasing privitisation would increase delays as they get less done per medical staff hour
How can the private sector bridge the gap without spare capacity?
We actually don’t need a private healthcare service.
I agree. But we have private provision of NHS care on a huge scale, always have done. And we have private healthcare. An incoming government has to deal with what is in place, and seek to reform it. Improving outcomes for NHS patients (us) needs more than the waving of hands and wishing we weren't starting from here.
And porivate healthcare cannot do that - it just cannot - no spare capacity and no extra staff and less efficient
the key thing is social care and that costs money - a lot of it. ruled out by Streeting and Starmer
There is no spare capacity in the private sector.
So people aren't turning to private health to avoid long waiting times? Why are there two different waiting times for private an NHS services? This suggests that, while there isn't spare capacity, the use of resources isn't currently best used based on clinical need rather than ability to pay.
Anyway, increasing NHS staffing and transforming the care system is exactly what "Starmer and Streeting" are proposing. Both are going to take "a while"... and outcomes, especially waiting times, need to begin to change much sooner. Voters need to see an improvement within 5 years, or all Labour plans get stopped by an incoming Tory government and we're back on the current downward slide. That's the politics of it.
So people aren’t turning to private health to avoid long waiting times?
Yes they are - which is why private healthcare now has waiting lists in months ie no spare capacity
Streeting made it clear no more money for the NHS. No word of sorting social care. Link me to the social care plans?
Streeting made it clear no more money for the NHS. No word of sorting social care
Sorry, but that last line isn't true. More money has been proposed for the NHS for staffing, and so has a "national care service". But the increased NHS staffing, and the creation of the NCS, will take multiple parliaments... Labour won't get that unless they improve results way before the benefits of those policies come good.
This is going around in circles again. Think what you like, or read what Starmer and Streeting have proposed over the last few years.
More money has been proposed for the NHS, and so has reform of social care.
Really? Streetings speech today said the opposite and a link to social care plans please
Search "Streeting" and "national care service". I can't link you to a manifesto. And that will only include initial steps to be actioned in the first few years anyway.
so no plans then - just a vague aspiration without any funding.
You really have drunk the Kool Aid haven't you...
You really have drunk the Kool Aid haven’t you…
Well, I don't wear the same shit covered spectacles as some.
We’re all agreed NHS staffing and social care are both a mess… and if Labour don’t work on both there is no long term fix… but that isn’t going to produce results immediately. Using rather than wishing away private providers they probably need to be part of any shorter term plan, don’t they?
Again, from what i read, it's basically the same type of statement that's been made for a generation, the NHS needs to be more efficient, rather than just throwing more money at it and hoping it finally works, so that when it does get more money it's actually beneficial.
We'll see what it actually means if Labour get in, will they have the bottle to go for restructuring, or just do the usual and throw 3% or so a year extra at it and hope it keeps quiet whilst they're in power.
Using rather than wishing away private providers they probably need to be part of any shorter term plan, don’t they?
Nope - they are part of the problem not part of the solution. They are less efficient, more expensive and have no spare capacity. a greater use of privatte healthcare will reduce capacity overall not increase it
, the NHS needs to be more efficient
Its one of the most efficient healthcare services in the world treating more for less than pretty much any other. England wastes money on the fake market and that bit could be gained back. twice the admin costs of scotland where the fake market was eliminated
So, what’s your short term plan? While we wait for NHS staff to train or return? Likewise care staff.
I agree that private providers are part of the problem, but they also exist. Use (and reform how they’re used), or ignore/abolish. Which is more likely to reduce waiting times within a few years?
NHS
Get rid of the fake market - that will free up 5-10% of the entire NHS budget in england<br /><br />Pump more money in
Rejoin the EU to get access to the surplus of EU nurses that used to come here
Have a proper national discussion about what the NHS should be doing
Bring GPs into the NHS some are very good doing a very good job. Some are awful
Social care - bring it back into state ownership and pay and train staff properly
All costs money tho - and no profit for Streetings paymasters so all ruled out by Starmer and Streeting
I’d agree to all those aims, personally. We’re not getting much of that though, not in the short term. Not here and now.
So, short term waiting lists… what’s your plan? Grounded in the real UK of 2024-2028? Deliverable in that time frame? Starting from where we are now, not where you and I wish we were now?
Thats my plan. all perfectly feasible within the first year. all ruled out by Starmer and Streeting. Rejoin the EU is the only one with any difficulty at all. Scotland got rid of the fake markket very quickly. took months.
They have no plan at all apart from Streeting needs to pay back his paymasters
'Short term' hey? I wonder how we got here? Could it be short term thinking?
Where do you think using the private sector leads to exactly? - more of the same catastrophic failure of public service.
That's the aim.
It's just more of the same dross from Streeting with one direction only.
All private medical provision reduces the capacity of the NHS to serve the people.
https://twitter.com/JujuliaGrace/status/1750083518988685699?t=O_0-X_ZuiCJ5pU4gh6yNxw&s=19
It all be that efficiency and waste bollocks the Tories are so fond of.
Every single large organisation has waste, it is just what happens and is a given. That doesn't stop you trying to improve things such as sorting out social care.
Thats my plan. all perfectly feasible within the first year. all ruled out by Starmer and Streeting. Rejoin the EU is the only one with any difficulty at all. Scotland got rid of the fake markket very quickly. took months.
So abolish private medicine, nationalise the 6,000+ social care providers, make all GPs salaried employees is the easy bit? Rejoin the EU in year 2?
Simon Stevens's 2017 reforms effectively abolished the internal market in England with establishment of ICS and ICBs. Do some reading.
And Scotland saved 10% plus? How is the SNHS doing right now?
We could have a conversation about, say, the appropriate balance of primary, secondary and tertiary care, public health and social care without talking about absolute levels of spend, which is what Streeting is on about, but not in the face of ignorance (primarily, possibly willful, possibly just ignorance), closed minds and blinkers.
‘Short term’ hey? I wonder how we got here? Could it be short term thinking?
Yes. Short term. Long term we need more NHS and care staff, trained and working in an environment they can stay in. That'll take, what, 10-15 years to implement? If Labour don't ALSO aim for short term improvements in NHS waiting lists, then they'll only get 5 years in government, and no long term plans can be fulfilled. If an incumbent Labour government fight an election where the public experience of being treated on the NHS is still where it is now, or worse, they are sunk.
The NHS as a "mixed economy" is here to stay. Keeping it free at the point of use, increasing NHS staffing, and reforming social care... those are all aims that a Labour government must pursue... but also using existing (and additional) private provision is just something for those of us on the left to suck up... the practicalities of making NHS services fully publicly delivered (for the first time in NHS history) are insurmountable. Growing public provision is the way to move the balance away from private provision... so that's back to the long term goals... more NHS staff, reforming Social care... no quick pay offs there.