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Keir Starmer says Labour will fund our public services through growing the economy.
Liz Truss, economist extraordinare, was saying precisely that over 5 years ago:
https://www.ft.com/content/7e1239fe-3f22-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4
"Public spending rise depends on extra growth, says Truss"
So it's great to hear that Sir Keir Starmer isn't part of the anti-growth coalition.
From a BBC article:
The party is seeking inspiration from the US President Joe Biden's vast package of support for green industries to rebuild Britain's "industrial foundations".
The Biden package seems to be working quite nicely in the USA at the moment.
People would struggle to know what Labour stood for these days. 'Growth' means make the rich richer and hope they pay their taxes, 'reform' the NHS which means increased privatisation, building 'affordable housing' by trying to make developers stick to planning gains of a few cheaper units with no mention of social housing or rent controls, brushing teeth in schools. It will be a bit of a challenge for LP members to go on the knocker proseletyzing that set of changes. OTOH Sunak banging on about stopping smoking and meat taxes set the terms of debate into the surreal.
Anyone seriously addressing the cost of living or housing crisis? Nope, thought not. They'd just like to get elected to a nice little earner.
Anyone seriously addressing the cost of living or housing crisis?
Those things are being announced as well. It's up to you if you think the plans are enough, but do read the articles.
Anyone seriously addressing the cost of living or housing crisis
Meh the majority of the electorate couldn't give a flying **** as they're alright. The last thing they want is more houses in the pool or close to where they live. Same with developers, a restricted supply keeps prices high, that's how they like it.
No one is going to **** that little gravy train up. Not to mention the lovely rental incomes!
The Biden package seems to be working quite nicely in the USA at the moment.
Yep good numbers on macro data.
Biden has pumped trillions into the economy. (Not rocket science.)
(But they do battle with government shutdowns and the self imposed debt-ceiling constantly. If the debt ceilings had got its way it might be a bit of wreck.)
It's almost as if government spending and fiscal expansion increases growth.
https://twitter.com/wbmosler/status/1710376854341775770?t=0R20ySwKUWi-ERytCo5ETA&s=19
Now for context Reeves is offering fiscal responsibility - let's imagine what that might do in light of Labour wanting to generate growth. Reeves' own advisor is basically saying its dumb to put the Osborne created OBR in front of Reeves' as a restriction. Now using the mini budget as a point of order (which was offering benefits to the wealthy).
Its totally counter intuitive and Centrist commentators yet again bleating on about the mini budget have helped ensure Tory rules constrain a Labour government.
The Biden package seems to be working quite nicely in the USA at the moment
Green-economy focused. The US has possibly the largest lithium deposit in the world, the UK has some but it isn't currently feasible to produce commercially. The US opened their first cobalt mine last year and is number 10 in the world reserve rankings, we don't feature although there are deposits in the SW, Wales and W. Scotland
Independence in semi-conductors. We have a few small players
The only thing that we can come close to is their Inflation Reduction Act (2022), which we should be doing already and aren't: Reduce carbon emissions. Increase domestic manufacturing. Improve tax-enforcement. More R&D and commercialisation of the outcome
BBC Radio 4 - Uncharted with Hannah Fry, 10. Devil in the Detail
Errors in the analysis underpinning the arguments in favour of austerity...
Is anybody else worried that whatever Kier and Co announce, even if it's policies that will transform the UK's trajectory for the better, that it won't get any decent coverage in the press? I know the war in Gaza is important but Labour have announced a few policies and you just wouldn't know looking at the papers and news websites unless you specifically went looking for them.
Even in here this thread is hardly getting any posts whereas the Rishi one is constantly at the to of the first page. This doesn't bode well.
Even in here this thread is hardly getting any posts whereas the Rishi one is constantly at the to of the first page. This doesn’t bode well.
Labour conference now so maybe the SKS thread will get a bit more traction.
Problem is, he's already writing cheques he can't cash:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67058848
That's not going to be a popular policy with the NIMBY vote and the environmental lobby. Britain is notorious for building expensive but largely crap housing anyway so it's going to need more than just a keynote speech to set this one out. And all these new towns need some sort of connection and put entire rail infrastructure has just been put back by 40 years...
Not really. If the Tories had a terrible conference, then it's fine for Labour to have a boring one. If there were any spectacular new policies then it would have been tricky if they weren't covered - but there aren't any policies like that.
The closest [Starmer] came to news was promising to ditch the Rwanda scheme...There was just time for the conference to agree to not debate Brexit – so much better to avoid division – and that was about it. Much of the day had understandably been overshadowed by events in Israel. But that almost suited Labour. They plan to take power. Not with a bang but by osmosis. To slide under the radar without the Tories noticing. So far, so good.
Even in here this thread is hardly getting any posts whereas the Rishi one is constantly at the to of the first page. This doesn’t bode well.
is rather have dull politics with a whiff of honesty than exciting politics that bleed the county and its populous dry to fund the Tory elite. <br /><br />The problem is, we all like sensationalist TV.
Is anybody else worried that whatever Kier and Co announce, even if it’s policies that will transform the UK’s trajectory for the better, that it won’t get any decent coverage in the press? I know the war in Gaza is important but Labour have announced a few policies and you just wouldn’t know looking at the papers and news websites unless you specifically went looking for them.
In some ways it's a benefit the Tory party conference went badly, if Labour receive less attention due to events in the middleast then it might not be such a terrible thing for them.
That’s not going to be a popular policy with the NIMBY vote and the environmental lobby. Britain is notorious for building expensive but largely crap housing anyway so it’s going to need more than just a keynote speech to set this one out. And all these new towns need some sort of connection and put entire rail infrastructure has just been put back by 40 years…
Perhaps, but I think he struck a note of hope about renewal and economic activity (ideally leading to that all important 'growth') set against the Tories who were just listing things they're against (some of which are largely imaginary) and extending austerity with more cuts to infrastructure investment...
The overall Labour message was arguably quieter but more positive. The proof is in the pudding of course so we'll see what SKS and co. actually do. We had wild promises from the last Tory anyone actually voted into No.10 and much of that has evaporated. Maybe the nation needs a stint of 'boring' government...
rather have dull politics with a whiff of honesty
The whiff of SKS certainly isn't honesty.
I think there is a fair proportion of the population who realise that building more houses is a good idea, especially the young vote & their parents & grandparents. Less sure about keeping that all in the private domain though 🤔
From a practical perspective I think the house building policy - whilst being well intentioned - will be undeliverable as there are nowhere near enough tradespeople to support the target.
Skilled European workers returned to their home countries in the immediate post Brexit period and there would need to be significant concessions and incentives to lure them back.
Modular would (possibly) mitigate some of the problems but the manufacturing base would need to be massively expanded - and bear in mind that a number of modular companies have closed over the 12 - 18 months.
If modular, the designs would be very much cookie cutter and I don't know if that's what anyone wants.
Then factor in the infrastructure requirements, councils who will look to extort massive S106 contributions from developers, Nimby-ism, planning systems not fit for purpose, developers always looking to water down the affordable housing commitments in their contracts.
Is the public sector capable of managing the scale of housing development as promised by Starter? IMO - no.
Frank that's a valid point. I'm trade and currently booking into 2025. If I turn potential customers away with a couple of recommendations, I can almost guarantee they'll be calling me again in 6 months time as they just can't get anyone
https://www.ft.com/content/ff8229de-4b40-41c8-96d3-b0bc38ef8aca
"Labour has steadily trimmed the policy over concerns among leader Sir Keir Starmer’s team about Conservative criticism...."
So despite the Tories, having absolutely no credibility, being electorally on their knees, and awaiting a wipe out at the next general election, they are still setting the agenda and calling the shots.
More backtracking:
"In June, Labour said it would aim to reach that level by the middle of a five-year term in office, the first dilution of what had previously been a more immediate commitment."
And Labour are now using the well-established and dishonest Tory tactic of repackaging old money as new:
"The party figures added that the £28bn commitment now included existing government capital spending on green schemes, which experts said was currently around £8bn a year."
The Tories aren’t calling the shots. Labour’s policies go way beyond the Tories, but being realistic about what can be achieved in the first few years of a Labour government will be essential to avoid gifting the Tory party a way back into power by pointing at late delivery on manifestos commitments. There’s a lot of **** to get clearing up.
but being realistic about what can be achieved in the first few years of a Labour government
Why weren't they being realistic about what could be achieved in the first few years of a Labour government 6 months?
Why the need to backtrack on so many of the very few policy announcements which Labour have made?
And why does the FT talk of concerns among Sir Keir Starmer’s team about Conservative criticism? It's not true?
Plenty here for Conservatives (and you) to criticise. Crack on. The sooner we have a change of government the better. The longer this lot stay in power salting the soil, the harder the task ahead, and the longer it’ll take.
Plenty here for Conservatives (and you) to criticise. Crack on.
28Bn for Green power is a joke. Doesn't touch the sides. And their funding excuse for this is vague. Probably won't happen.
Great British Energy is a manipulation of what it really is about. An investment strategy to encourage private firms to do the work - they hope. When Starmer talks this up he makes it sound like they're building something incredible.
Rather than the thing it really is.
All that's happening in the grand scheme is Labour are simply ten years behind the Tories in terms of political rhetoric. But it's old school stuff promise little deliver less. Lots of state and private happiness with little government intervention.
Helping clear the chairs on the Titanic.
But fine, if that's what people think is the answer to right-wing problems.
Follow the mechanics - no real growth or improvement without large scale state intervention. It's not complex if the wealthy have sucked all the money out of the economy someone has to put it back in.
This whole scared of state solutions is just dumb ass. There is one pool of Labour - when you carve things up between state and private you slacken the availablity of services to those that can't afford it. Who can now afford less.
This is all failed trickle-down tosh, and the excuse that they can't attempt things in one term because of public finances omfg. Back to front logic.
Watch it fail. The hysterics of the Tories may be fading but Labour are about to pull from their hymn sheets. It's so absolutely ridiculous.
But fine, if that’s what people think is the answer to right-wing problems.
I don't think that but what do you suggest I do about it? (and no, I am not going to start a revolution)
don’t think that but what do you suggest I do about it? (and no, I am not going to start a revolution.
Context of people being the voters. Not that much else is being offered to then.
But we could start my not supporting Labour's ideas that aren't really up to scratch?
But we could start my not supporting Labour’s ideas that aren’t really up to scratch?
I don't support them, I vote Green. What else can I do?
And if 'the people' don't vote Labour in protest of them not having ideas that are up to scratch then what do the people do and who do they vote for?
The only way that Labour can be judged is for them to be elected to government and seeing if watered down Tory policies actually work.
I am looking forward to Starmer's premiership far more than I did Tony Blair's.
Tony Blair inherited a fairly healthy economy - people were simply tired of almost 20 years of Tory government. The state of the economy wasn't really a big issue, Tony Blair could afford to plod along much as the Tories had done. It was only when the banks failed due to Tory inspired deregulation and greed that the shit hit the fan.
Next year Keir Starmer will inherit a totally screwed economy, carrying on as the Tories have for the last 13 years is not really an option, a dramatic change of direction is needed.
I think we can safely say that the shit is quite likely to hit the fan during the term of the first post-Tory parliament.
Furthermore unlike 1997 voters aren't just tired of the Tories and their sleaze, the Tories have now been very substantially discredited, especially with regards to their handling of the economy.
So I am not sure that voters will necessarily be so quick to switch back to Tories should Starmer fail to deliver, as is very likely.
Personally I am hoping for a truly enormous Labour majority, and seeing what Labour actually does when it is in a position to do more than just criticise the Tories.
I know it risks the possibility of hard right parties such as Reform UK exploiting the vacuum left by a discredited and demoralised Tory Party, with a much diminished Parliamentary minority, but it will hopefully provide a platform for progressives to be heard, and a much more captive audience.
Plenty here for Conservatives (and you) to criticise. Crack on. The sooner we have a change of government the better. The longer this lot stay in power salting the soil, the harder the task ahead, and the longer it’ll take.
Just skimmed through that. It's a very ambitious list but exactly what I would hope for from a modern Labour party. They would have got my vote anyway but that has made me confident it's the right vote.
I've no idea where the crumbs of optimism come with Starmer and Labour.
More back-tracking:
"Labour to omit funding of social care reform from manifesto and scale back Lords plans"
That's all it every is - adapting the values of Conservatism every step of the way.
None of this is necessary.
^^ I hear you but since when did a party stick to its manifesto?
Possibly, but they don't often ignore their manifesto to become more strident!
I see that as a load of waffle with nothing of substance and nothing to inspire
Plenty here for Conservatives (and you) to criticise. Crack on.
Uh huh. Lets see how much is actually adopted by parliamentary party before wasting too much time on it.
Given what Starmer himself has actually said I wouldnt be feeling optimistic.
Continuing on from Cameron 'Modernising' the NHS will happen, Streeting has been bought.
Yup - Streetings answer to the NHS issues is privatisation. Bought and paid for by private healthcare firms tho in recent years its been disguised.
First off I apologise for posting the following on this thread, though I think it’s directly related. I also apologise for being a bit waffley as It’s late and I’m sat on the bog with something nagging at me.
I’ve dithered a while about asking this, because I sort of feel like the answer is staring me in the face, but here goes.
Im soon 53 years old and I’ve seen a few general elections, voted in most I’ve been eligible to vote (cos I feel we have a duty to use our vote) but never really been engaged by the whole political scene or process.
I don’t really think that any political parties are aligned with my values so gravitate to a very basic “under which party have I been better off? Under who have I had a bit of spare cash in my pocket etc?”
So, with plodding towards a general election I’m beginning to ask myself who should get my vote (spoiler - not Conservative). Which kinda leaves Labour where I live;
My question is basically why, when a general election has not yet been called, are Labour politicians being asked to give specific detail about each and every plan they bring up? It seems that they’re expected to provide an exact break down of funding/costing for everything.
It’s correct that political parties are held to account but it really seems like they’re being held to a far higher standard/level of scrutiny than the actual party in government.
I don’t recall anyone giving the Conservatives this level of scrutiny prior to the Cameron government, not at any point since.
Am I imagining this or are people so fed up that they can’t be bothered listening to the Tories anymore?
I’ve just watched this weeks question time where Yvette Cooper was repeatedly asked about funding whereas the Conservative wasn’t.
As an aside, did anyone else notice that the BBC seemed to pointedly avoid allowing any of the Muslims in the audience to have a voice. One fella continually shouted out but I sort of see why - the mic never got near him.
Its been the case for decades. Its the malign influence of the tory press. they will seize on anything to attack labour
Basically what tj says but a few other thoughts too.
My first priority is Tories out, id happily vote Labour, Green, LiDem etc to remove my sitting Tory MP. It just so happens that Labour have the only realistic chance in my area which is fortuitous as they are my preferred option anyway.
Labour and spending:
They are damned what ever they say or don't say. Id love them to announce huge and real NEW money for the NHS for instance. I very much have skin in this game as do a few in my family. Most people do, they just don't know it *yet*. If they announce that though, they will get torn apart as much as they will get applauded.
I sincerely believe that the UK, it's integrity (what remains) and the very institutions that hold society together will be in a state that makes even our current mess seem like nirvana if the Tories win another term.
And they could! They could! The "shy tory" is a malicious little beast of an entity.
The papers. Front pages still matter even if it's a dying medium and the tories hold most of the cards here.
TV? A neutered BBC that does it's best but knows that its head could be on the chopping block soon and CH4 being threatened with privitisation simply because it painted the tories in a poor light.
Also... 2 far right news channels that think ofcom is a joke and one of their owners is trying to buy The Telegraph... an already Tory paper that will be dragged even further to the extremes of the right. As if all that isn't enough, you literally have sitting Tory MP's embedded in GB News. Think about that, it's *not* normal. It is a privately funded propaganda channel (literally) that seeks to further undermine UK institutions and people for the furtherment of some very shady and rich people. Most of which which live in the UK.
We have almost become used to how thing are in government now but IT IS NOT NORMAL. They must go at all costs.
If Labour bugger the GE up, we are in for a lot of pain in this country. Even if they win there's still no silver bullet but at least I won't feel like the sitting government actively hates a large part of its own population and is syphoning as much money and power off before it eats itself... and us.
Basically I've been radicalised by a government with no morals, integrity or even a thought of the damage it's done to this country.
I don't care what Labour have to say or dare not say, I'll vote for them. No way, no f****** way will they be anything like the current tory party even on their worst days.
"And breath.....“
No way, no f****** way will they be anything like the current tory party even on their worst days.
Tend to agree and that is the best we can get in this country but the gap between Labour and Tory is closing by the day so what we actually get when they are in government is going to be hard to tell the difference on anything of substance. Yes they won't come out with hardline shit like the tories do but they don't actually do that much in reality do they.
Let's not forget that without reform the UK is destined to be governed by parties with absolute majorities that were voted into power by a minority of the population.
And that for whatever reason the UK seems to prefer giving the Tories an absolute majority than Labour.
So unfortunately, the sooner there's a Labour government in power the sooner there will be a Tory government in power right after to continue ripping the country to pieces to help make their mates as rich as possible.
It's really assuring to see that Labour's policy paper is full of solutions to the massive democratic deficit inherent in the UK's political system.
Again the view from up here is somewhat different. Labour sticking to tory spending plans = no increase in budget for the scots government = no chance of any improvements to standards of living. the Scots government has already done stuff within its limited and fixed budget to ameliorate the worst of the tory poverty inducing measures - like the two child benefit cap. things the labour party say they will not do.
This version of the labour party getting into power will make zero difference in Scotland. Indeed their pact with the tories in Scotland could actually make things worse
He may well have alienated quite a few traditional Labour voters in the last few days and by lining up with the Tories the Tory voters are given no reason to change their allegiance. I see the Greens as being the major beneficiaries and in my constituency they're likely to win in the next GE as the LP has been so woeful cutting down trees against the wishes of the electorate.
It isn't just the poorest and neediest, a huge swaith of the population of the western world has now been pushed into just surviving financially. Asset inflation means this burden is even larger the younger you are, just buying a house has become virtually impossible where jobs are concentrated, buying into pensions means you are buying less for more. The generally well off middle age demographic of STW may feel they have benefitted from these changes, but their privilege is going to destroy younger generations.
Far far too many people are now having to live paycheck to paycheck, Their rents are going up, their fuel costs are going up and they are being told too bear the brunt of the suffering too ensure assets stay inflated.
This isn't just an abstract concept, people are living lives without any power, they suffering through anguish, stress and mental illness because of the pressure created by our political direction, it destroys individuals, families and communities.
Changing the party that runs the current system isn't going to fix the system, throwing a few more crumbs from the high table for the population to fight over is just an illusion of change. Labour is not offering any real solutions, neither are the democrats in america and the centrist consensus in the EU.
And when the "parties of the people" offer no real hope for change for the lives of the majority, then this is where the populists take advantage. People know the system is broken, they are the ones who feel it in everyday life, they are not stupid and ignorant as many posters like to label them, they are powerless to control their own lives, and when SKS and labour offer them no hope, then maybe a false hope seams a gamble worth taking.
fine post MSP but I disagree with the EU comment. In general poorer folk are much better of relatively in most EU counties than here. In more equal societies everyone even the heavily taxed rich are happier.
Inequality has been growing for decades in the UK and too many folk are as you say totally isolated from this and have no understanding of the poverty a large section of our society live in