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Sir! Keir! Starmer!
 

Sir! Keir! Starmer!

 rone
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<p style="text-align: center;">The word ‘centrist’ bothers me a lot.</p>

Why? It's a badge of honour for some Labour voters.

In my mind it's like saying we accept right-wing politics without the chaos of the Tory party.

And it needs calling out.

I can just about take being called hard-left because I consider pushing back against Tory politics the right thing to do. Rather than pushing simply on incompetence and corruption.

Something Centrists simply don't get.

Some on here almost use this word as some sort of slur or slight against even handed politicaly moderate opinions

Centrists understand the economy in Neoliberal terms. They can have the slur.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 3:58 am
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Why? It’s a badge of honour for some Labour voters.

I'm not a labour voter, I vote lib dem or Green.

But I'd settle for labour over the conservatives given the current situation.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:02 am
 rone
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I’m not a labour voter, I vote lib dem or Green.

Well if you were Libdem you would  skew towards Centrist but certainly not the case for green!

I'm not applying any criticism towards you but Centrism follows Tory economic policy. So does need some push back.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:04 am
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@rone you  have mis quoted me ... you should probably edit that


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:08 am
 rone
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This system doesn't work so well on my phone. Apologies if not correct. I'm trying to straighten it out.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:09 am
mattyfez reacted
 rone
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Why? It’s a badge of honour for some Labour voters.

Just to qualify @mattyfez I wasn't actually aiming that point at you just general Blairites.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:21 am
mattyfez reacted
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I think you are confusing liberalism with centrism... it's kind of offensive that in this day and age, people in the UK seem to have a self belief which is becoming kind of a global joke.

It becomes even more of a joke when UK voters feel they have to vote tory or labour, both of which are very bad.

My philosophy is essentially just 'Wheatons law'. It's universal, it's scalable.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:23 am
 rone
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What's the difference between Liberalism and Centrism when it comes to macro-economic policy?


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:29 am
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What’s the difference between Liberalism and Centrism when it comes to macro-economic policy?

A dot on a graph. Tears in the rain.

Although I will say, there is no such thing as a centrist.

I think we should have a police force,  which is quite autoritarian.

But it should be funded through some sort of gereral taxation, which is quite socialist.

I think we should have free health care via general taxation... that's extremely socialst, but don't tell Nigel or his alleged russian donors!

I thin we need to re nationalise gas and electric, but it has to be done properly, and with transparency.

I agree with freedom of expression.

So please do tell me, what pigeon hole do you think I belong in?

And please, don't tell me to vote laboour or tory.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:41 am
kelvin reacted
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Well Labour seem to have got a fantastic win in Selby & Ainsty overturning a 20,000 Tory majority with a 24% swing - probably the least expected result of the 3 by-elections.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:11 am
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Nice.

One out of three ain't bad.

Can the libs take the other one?


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:18 am
kelvin and Poopscoop reacted
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Second largest swing to Labour from the Tories ever... the largest was in the lead up to Blair's era I think.

I'm a bit happy but time for kip now.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:31 am
kelvin and mattyfez reacted
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Looks like they did, tories lost 2 MPs. one to lab and one to Lib.

Game on.

I would have prefered a hat trick loss, but this is good news that the public are finaly waking up.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:31 am
kelvin and Poopscoop reacted
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It does beg the question, what fall-guy are the tories going to front for Uxbridge now?

Maybe it's Nigel farages time to shine?


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:39 am
Poopscoop reacted
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Anyone see the Reform UK guy in the Selby result? Dave Kent, I think?

The only one to stand there with his hands in his pockets and not clap as Kier was announced to have won. Bad loser or what.😂


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:43 am
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The headline in the express tomorrow will be telling... probably no mention of this, but lots of stuff about small boats.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:47 am
johnnystorm, steveb, Poopscoop and 1 people reacted
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imposition of ULEZ as a key factor. A wake up call for Starmer and the Labour Party.

”We insist on the right to poison everyone to the east of us.”

What a campaign strategy. Uxbridge has always been a dump though.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:29 am
Pauly, Poopscoop and kelvin reacted
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The only one to stand there with his hands in his pockets and not clap as Kier was announced to have won. Bad loser or what.

I won't be clapping either, it is hardly a victory for change.

Kier Mather, born in 1998, studied history and politics at the University of Oxford. He's also a former parliamentary researcher for shadow health secretary Wes Streeting, who works as a senior public affairs advisor at the Confederation of British Industry (CBI).


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:42 am
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A good night for Labour and the Libs. Not a huge fan of Starmer nowadays but there's no denying his strategy (or it it really Mandleson's / Blair's) is working. Labour / Lib Dem coalition is looking like a possibility at the next election though which might not be a bad thing.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:43 am
Poopscoop and kelvin reacted
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Didn't de Pfeffel introduce ULEZ zones? Why's Khan carrying the can for executing a policy set in motion (and needed, after all) by his predecessor.

(NB, doesn't mean that policy shouldn't be changed where wrong - but I'm not convinced this is a wrong policy even if it is a vote loser)

Also - proof again of our innate selfishness

"Air quality and climate chage is really important"

"We know, something has to be done"

"It'll require effort and sacrifice on your behalf though"

"Will it? **** that then!"


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:46 am
kelvin reacted
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Wot the sheeple of Uxbridge don’t no is dat Cars Cause Chemtrails. Each one has a speshal pipe on the back that emits a killer gas that you are charged £1.40 a leeter to convert at death stations.

The government are trying to cover it up but Khan is exposing the truth.

Do your own research.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:53 am
Poopscoop reacted
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Those were anti-Tory votes, not pro Starmer but we expect the claim.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 8:09 am
Poopscoop reacted
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Uxbridge loss could be useful, rather find out now than @ the GE a chance to hone the message for London and SE (we hear your concerns etc...)


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 8:26 am
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Not a huge fan of Starmer nowadays but there’s no denying his strategy (or it it really Mandleson’s / Blair’s) is working.

The strategy didn't work at all in Somerton and Frome, the result there was worse than in 2019 - a drop of 10% in Labour's share of the vote.

What happened yesterday is all about how unpopular the Tories are with voters and how people will vote for whoever they need to to defeat them.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 8:50 am
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Do wonder if there was some tactical voting in Frome and Selby to take out the Tories. It's not exactly prime Labour territory.

Disappointed to see the back story of the new youngest MP. He may be an excellent MP but Oxbridge graduates with no real world life/job experience don’t fill me with confidence, and I have skin in that game.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 8:56 am
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That area of the southwest is either Tory or Lib-Dem, always has been, same as our area, Labour just don't get into these places down here and the best course of action in a by-election like yesterday is to stand down and make sure you don't take votes off the candidate best suited to unseat the tories.

It'll be the same at the next election for me, i'll vote Lib-Dem as they are the ones who can unseat the tory MP, they've also just lost the council down here which is nice to see, even better, a week after losing it the MP was complaining about the council and how they were not able to sort out strike action, which started under them 🤣


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 9:00 am
Del, Poopscoop and kelvin reacted
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The strategy didn’t work at all in Somerton and Frome, the result there was worse than in 2019 – a drop of 10% in Labour’s share of the vote.

Tactical voting - good to see that the electorate got it without being corralled into it.

What happened yesterday is all about how unpopular the Tories are with voters and how people will vote for whoever they need to to defeat them.

Good. That is the first step to healing, removing whatever it is that is doing the harm.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 9:06 am
doris5000, Del, Pauly and 3 people reacted
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The strategy didn’t work at all in Somerton and Frome, the result there was worse than in 2019 – a drop of 10% in Labour’s share of the vote.

That's a bold take, even for an obsessed Starmer hater.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 10:47 am
doris5000, Del, Poopscoop and 1 people reacted
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even for an obsessed Starmer hater.

Exactly, how dare he question dear leader, Purge him! Purge him now with fire!!!


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 10:58 am
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Eh? So the evidence of the Starmer thread isn't that Ernie spends too much time being upset at the Labour leader and the clear evidence of last night's elections (two out of three) was that tactical voting played a part?

I'm no huge fan of Starmer but you lot are unhinged!


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 11:03 am
Poopscoop and kelvin reacted
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Tactical voting is definitely a "thing" now.

Long may it continue.👍


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 11:23 am
salad_dodger and kelvin reacted
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I am not upset with Starmer at all, he is well on the road to proving that Labour under neoliberal control is not answer. Obviously he needs to win a general election to prove that fact so any step towards that goal must be welcomed.

And I have no idea why you think the "Starmer strategy" worked in Somerton and Frome.

Can you explain why a 10% drop in Labour's share of the vote in Somerton and Frome proves that Starmer's strategy is working?

The message from yesterday's by-elections is anyone but the Tories, unless you live in Labour controlled Greater London.

Edit : I never had you down as a Starmer fan chestrockwell, aren't you a Tory?

Or is that precisely why you are keen Starmer?


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 11:33 am
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theotherjonv
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Didn’t de Pfeffel introduce ULEZ zones? Why’s Khan carrying the can for executing a policy set in motion (and needed, after all) by his predecessor.

Mentioned in the other thread but Khan was forced into the fast expansion by Grant Shapps, who made it an effective condition of TfL funding.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 11:40 am
kelvin reacted
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Starmer says Labour's failure in Uxbridge was down to Ulez expansion (and not his own unpopularity, oh no) and Khan "should reflect on it". Does he not know it was a result of strictures laid down by Grant Shapps? Good gob, the man does so many somersaults he'd have no trouble running away with the circus. He is líterally joining in with Tory hypocrisy against his own side.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:03 pm
 rone
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I don't know much about this Ulez but does this mean Starmer will now move even rightwards on surrounding issues?

If so, what a time to be alive - from the unhinged Starmer class of 23.

(If only more so pretend left-wingers were critical of Starmer - country might move away from the very system they all hate. Quite bizarre.)

I'm finding it very painful the same group of people that hate what the Tories have done seem to endorse moving in their direction via Labour's roadmap.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1682273816657920001?t=VprIuiVQCJX4ouNDfZoPwg&s=19

The anger on twitter at the Ulez thing from the regular Centrists - but then Starmer will move right and they will say - yep makes sense. Thereby moving all progessive policies rightwards.

The path of winning a election via beating a drum to right-wing reactionary nonsense versus solid left wing arguments appears to have vanished.

But my god the left-wing arguments ought to be damn robust by now, more so than any time in my history.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:34 pm
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I thought Starmers response on the ULEZ was superb.

"The reality is that Ulez was a Conservative policy, introduced by Boris Johnson as mayor and recently agreed by this government to be expanded in May 2020, as part of Covid loans to the mayor. It helps no one in politics if we are not honest about the reality of pollution in our cities and the health consequences of this, but we also need to be honest about what investments are needed to deliver policies with public support.

This is what the net zero review very clearly set out: we need long-term investment to encourage private sector investment and to create a just transition by establishing the effective incentives to decarbonise."

Oh wait that was the tory mp Chris Skidmore.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 4:47 pm
AD, BruceWee, Poopscoop and 2 people reacted
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iirc SKS's response when recently challenged on climate was "we are on the side of economic growth" not of course in a prepared speech in front of a hand picked supportive audience, but when confronted by children he wasn't able to put up a façade quickly enough.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 5:12 pm
 rone
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Oh wait that was the tory mp Chris Skidmore.

Lmfao. You got me.


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 6:07 pm
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Quite hard to disagree with this assessment. Mind you, Lab are all too often disappointing on environmental matters, then wonder why they lose youth votes to the Greens.

https://twitter.com/james_bg/status/1682256226887843841


 
Posted : 21/07/2023 7:56 pm
kelvin reacted
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<p style="text-align: center;">Don't split the antiTory vote.  With the crap voting system in the UK, it's a sensible strategy</p>


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 1:54 am
kelvin and Poopscoop reacted
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800 votes went green.   Pro euope pro environment.   A decent number of votes for a squeezed 3rd party and those votes cost labour the seat

This i fear being repeated in the GE.  With  labour's Brexit stance costing them votes and seats.  Its a continuing pattern over recent by elections.   There is little evidence of a pro labour vote just an anti tory one


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 2:07 am
Poopscoop reacted
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You keep beating that drum, but it is the smallest drum in the whole of England(sic).


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 2:47 am
kelvin, stumpyjon, theotherjonv and 1 people reacted
 ctk
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There will have to be a manifesto come election time. It cant be full of nothing can it?


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 7:02 am
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172 votes lost to a squeezed third party candidate with a bin on his head. If only Sir Keir would start wearing a bin on his head.


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 7:30 am
kelvin and stumpyjon reacted
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There will have to be a manifesto come election time. It cant be full of nothing can it?

No it can't be. I expect the next Labour election manifesto to be full of platitudes and attacks on the Conservatives.

The lack of practical solutions on offer will be blamed on the Conservatives for mismanaging the economy.

With the Tories so deeply unpopular it shouldn't cause a problem, in fact the lack of substance will make it harder for the right-wing press to attack it.

The problem will start after the honeymoon period when simply blaming and attacking the Tories won't be enough and voters expect Prime Minister Starmer to deliver.

No doubt when that happens Starmer will attempt to rely on the fact that he promised so little.


 
Posted : 22/07/2023 10:17 am
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