It's also far far easier to criticise your so called opponents rather than the guy and party who is supposed to stand for us and give us hope. (The biggest liar in politics.)
Pissed on our chips for certain.
World will never change for the better with Centrists cocking everything up and leaning with Tories, whilst at the same time not having a shred of knowledge on the economy or the delivery of progessive policies.
Every step of the way there's been an excuse for Starmer's manoeuvring until we get to this shitty part of the story.
"Andrew Rawnsley bang on as usual they bleat " .... Oh my ****ing life. Unless it's Brexit there is no narrative or tale worth a bit of nuance - despite missing the obvious trajectory.
One of my dozey arse Labour councillors being a bell on twitter.
https://twitter.com/CllrAlanRhodes/status/1667854090464817153?t=sRA_hRCP9vfsmguNSmjctw&s=19
This is the level of Centrist commentary.
Alan Cummings makes a total valid point and this bloke's response here.
Bronze award for neoliberal enthusiasm.
Dozy not dozey. Lol.
In fact it’s got to the stage with a friend of mine, a politically aware Labour Party member that stood in the recent council elections, won’t hear any criticism of Starmer at all.
I have a very similar friend. She basically accused me of being a tory supporter for questioning the wisdom and motives of Starmer's and Reeves idiotic economic policies. I mean at least Blair had a bit of feelgood factor about him, even if we all knew it was hollow. Stamer's approach is more 'support me, or else!'.
More Binners loving Labour regression.
Labour rules out universal childcare for young children in fiscal credibility drive
Absolute guff. Over and over again this bullshit fiscal credibility rule is causing all spending to stall.
See you could be screeching at Sunak not being a grown-up or asking why Labour are illegitimately turning the money taps off?
No spending - no growth - no correcting of inequality. The question shouldn't be based on means testing - it should be what good can this do?
A future government has no fiscal reason or technical reason why they can't spend.
You see - Binners and co, this is actually what true ideological purity is. A fiscal credibility rule. That's an idiot at the wheels that hasn't got a clue and running the country at its knees like a household.
Starmer will sink the country even further. Then the Tories will be back and more outrage.
Then the Tories will be back and more outrage.
Truer words were never spoken.
Drop your pants, bend over, and think of England.
Just be grateful that it's Labour shafting you.
Drop your pants, bend over, and think of England.
If there was something good at the end of it all .... Lol.
Starting to think the Tories exist to keep James O'Brien in a job and the STW forum busy.
Does the forum server overheat on *surprise* Tory outrage?
https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1668699571252256769?t=3jdtxJOwcSASp907UF1Niw&s=19
Centrists realise that Starmer's net is catching a few of them.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1668708100688232448?t=HGbJay2lnPqjz_8MBN5h3Q&s=19
Starmer is a ****
Free childcare would have an absolutely massive positive effect, I think that it's one of the most socially important policies being talked about at the moment. And it would probably be economically huge as well because it would immediately bring loads of people into the job market - and improve the productivity of others.
He really is getting worse by the week. Come the election the better choice may actually be Sunak!
Seeing a Republican on C4 news last night who was saying he would vote for Trump whatever he gets done for as he is voting for Republican as can't possibly vote Democrat made me think that is similar to how I feel. If we only had two parties I would vote Labour however much of a dick the leader was as I cannot vote Tory as the two parties have clear differences in how they see society but that clear difference has got a lot smaller.
I will still be voting Green and seeing my lifer Tory MP win with another 60% so there is that.
Nailed it Molgrips.
So the government fixes something with public money that solves a societal problem and the effect generates many real benefits for all.
There is absolutely no need to be doing what Labour are doing.
What he has been doing though is sat cheerleading GoogleUK. These stupid MPs - thinking it all starts with big business. Where does he think business gets its money from?
Just be grateful that it’s Labour shafting you.
In 2010 after the tories won the election I joked with my mates that at least we could feel better about hating the govt again rather than being outraged and disappointed by it. These centrists seem to have the opposite view. I expect working people like myself to get shafted by the tories, that's what they do. So I'm always more outraged and angry when the Labour party - who are supposed to represent my interests - do the same.
The irony of course is that if a leftwing govt came in and did all the things a left wing govt should do, these same people would be cock-a-hoop. Instead though they prefer to laugh and make jokes about 'loony lefties' and reinforce tory charicatures of cardigan-clad allotment dwellers and hippy peace protestors. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragically self-defeating.
This is the level of Centrist commentary.
Starmer is a ****
Rats in a sack.
Interested to know how you felt shafted by Blair and browns governments?
A comment from the time of a mate who is a mechanic and MOT tester for a local authority was that he'd never felt better off after 10 years of new labour.
Rats in a sack.
Thing is the left are always expected to fall in line, and mostly they do. That doesn't apply to the centrists though who are quite happy to see a tory govt in power if it stops the left. You don't see the likes of John McDonnell or Diane Abbot saying they'd rather have a tory govt than one lead by Starmer. 🤷♂️
Interested to know how you felt shafted by Blair and browns governments?
It would be risible of me to claim I'm shafted by any govt. I might be a working person but I'm a fairly comfortable one so I'm not complaining about my standard of living. That doesn't stop me being angry at how those less well off are shafted though, because that's where I came from. And there are specific things like the imposition of tuition fees which have had or will have a direct affect on me and my family. And then of course there's stuff like the Iraq war. Some people might not care about that but I do.
Labour rules out universal childcare for young children in fiscal credibility drive
It looks like Ultra-New Labour's 'economic competence' has taken a step backwards. I don't know why:
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1668225202935808002
If Labour wants to play the 'economic competence' game according to Tory rules the Tories will always eventually win.
"We are more conservative than the Tories" is a difficult argument to win, no matter how hard you try.
Universal childcare is an obvious casualty as it clearly comes across as a very left-wing policy. The sort of policy that someone like Jeremy Corbyn would support:
https://labour.org.uk/press/childcare-for-the-many-labours-universal/
It is certainly not seen as a conservative policy.
Interested to know how you felt shafted by Blair and browns governments?
I thought it was a great period and I felt people were just generally happier and it was a better more positive time.
Clearly it was no socialist dream but A LOT of things were done better than they have been since 2010.
Yeah, don't mention the war - that was just another war in a world full of constant wars for me.
I thought it was a great period and I felt people were just generally happier and it was a better more positive time.
Wasn't that just because everyone was busy running up huge interest free credit card debts because their house had just doubled in value from the previous year?
Either it didn't have much to do with New Labour or, even worse, it did.
That doesn’t apply to the centrists though who are quite happy to see a tory govt in power if it stops the left. You don’t see the likes of John McDonnell or Diane Abbot saying they’d rather have a tory govt than one lead by Starmer
What? Do you see Blair or Brown saying they'd rather a Tory government than a labour government?
Wasn’t that just because everyone was busy running up huge interest free credit card debts because their house had just doubled in value from the previous year?
Nope, I felt the culture was better and society was not as divided. May have just been me but I felt a difference in those Labour years compared to the previous and current tory periods.
Nope, I felt the culture was better and society was not as divided.
Culture and unity is a lot easier when the majority aren't wondering if they are going to be choosing between paying rent and eating in the near future.
Correlation doesn't always equal causation but when people think things are on the up and are going to be up for the foreseeable future it tends to lead to a better overall mood. And like I said, if this good feeling was down to New Labour then they have to take responsibility for the hangover that inevitably followed.
Unfortunately, the Tories' idea of a hangover cure is a hot coffee enema that never ends.
Do you see Blair or Brown saying they’d rather a Tory government than a labour government?
Blair is on record as saying he couldn't/wouldn't support a Corbyn govt. Peter Mandelson too. Brown to his credit kept his mouth shut but was hardly supportive. Back then loads of labour centrist/rightwingers were happy to denounce the prospect of a left wing labour govt. How many labour lefties do you now hear saying the same about Starmer? Almost none!
My take on the Blair job - is where we are now - the Tories shafted things so much that any level of Labour government is seen as breath of fresh air - but it's superficial and runs out of steam as it's drowned by its own narrative of lack of money and genuine long term ideas.
Labour voters are so so desperate they will take anything. That's not a slur as I get it but we should have higher standards and be economically tuned in to the way we are constantly sold a pup by the establishment.
Markets are a tool not a necessity - if they stop serving us why are we still using them? There is no good counter narrative.
Wasn’t that just because everyone was busy running up huge interest free credit card debts because their house had just doubled in value from the previous year?
Either it didn’t have much to do with New Labour or, even worse, it did
Yes - in other words no real fixes just a bigger group of people being inflated by random market activities.
Solved nothing and suckered the middle ground into believing they had created wealth.
Remember the whole model is broken - Labour and the Tories operate within that framework. To solve the problem you have to rebuild the framework itself.
<p style="text-align: left;">If Labour wants to play the ‘economic competence’ game according to Tory rules the Tories will always eventually win.</p>
See what comes out of this one. Eventually Labour will be facing in the exact opposite direction to the electorate's needs.
molgrips
Full MemberFree childcare would have an absolutely massive positive effect, I think that it’s one of the most socially important policies being talked about at the moment. And it would probably be economically huge as well because it would immediately bring loads of people into the job market – and improve the productivity of others.
This particular one honestly feels like they might have gone "Right, let's fine a policy that's really popular and that makes total sense that would win us votes and progress our goals and help people. Ah yeah this is perfect, now let's rule it out". Almost as though not doing something difficult or controversial doesn't achieve the goal of showing how economically cautious and conservative they are, so they had do to it with something that'd be popular and vote winning.
They will of course do expensive and pointless things as long as they're conservative expensive and pointless things.
I can't keep banging the drum enough about being fiscally conservative - if they want growth - how do they expect it to occur without spending?
Total beans.
UK voters are a bit too left-wing and lack fiscal discipline for Starmer
Starmer ought to give voters lessons on fiscal prudence like Thatcher used to. And also explain why privatisation is such a great idea.
Yes THAT Bill Cash.
I may have missed my moment...
VAT on private education is something good.
VAT on private education is something good.
What i'd prefer is they removed loopholes that allow private schools avoid paying VAT on certain services.
Example - I produce a film for my local independent school - they get a VAT exemption but I have to charge VAT, and because I'm I'm flat rate I end up paying the VAT for them with no reclaim. Totally regressive.
There are many examples as they straddle a business and charity.
And I say all this as my partner works at one. But they do give me work so not all is lost in the local economy.
Independent Schools simply need to operate more in the private market possibly without access to certain reliefs. Many would close due to high costs of operation. Old expensive buildings etc.
No bad thing long term perhaps.
But on the politics of VAT on private schools - lame. Invest in the state school structure and private schools might be less of an option anyway.
Students flocked to independent schools during the pandemic because of their lower class sizes and better school from home benefits.
Simply make state schools better.
I expect current Labour to not do anything in these areas anyway.
From the above article:
as Labour moves further ahead in the polls
I don't know why they make that claim. Very slowly but steadily the gap between Labour and the Tories has been closing all this year:
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/
And the very latest poll is no exception:
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1668221351407022080
I still feel confident that Labour will win the next general election, after all their two greatest foes, the Tories and the SNP, are in dire crisis, but there is no need to state as fact something for which there is no evidence.
<p style="text-align: left;">I don’t know why they make that claim. Very slowly but steadily the gap between Labour and the Tories has been closing all this year:</p>
There are so many views and possible timelines but what if ... Starmer's approach starts to have the opposite effect on Starmeroids (fanbase) and inflation starts to drop a tiny bit, summer field good etc - before the big slump in winter. Are the Tories going to want to ride another winter?
However if interest rates get to 6% that reckons to be the tipping point for trouble where the benefits of income interest bumping inflation is overtaken by proper slowing of the economy, unemployment, repossessions.
I'm going out for an October election this year.
All in. That's my prediction. Before thing get so bad that Tories simply can't correct.
Please put that poll in the Sunak forum.
Hopefully he's just planning on stuffing more Lords in there to make it easier to abolish.
Not just u-turned on yet another pledge.
Selling Ice Creams without a license, huh... what a wrong un...
Some other things...
Wise move to base the new publicly owned energy company in Scotland... as that's where the transition to green energy has the most potential for both removing and adding jobs.
The House of Lords stuff... it'll need to be stuffed before it is reformed. And all the noise about not voting in the Lords to stop the government... that makes more sense when considering just how stacked against any Labour government the Lords will be when it first takes office.
It turns out that a Labour government would have rather similar policies to the current Tory government with regards to public sector pay.
"And I’ve also always been very clear that Labour’s fiscal rules are absolutely non-negotiable.
But unlike the Conservatives, myself and my colleagues would sit down with workers in the NHS, in our schools and negotiate, whereas this Government refuses to do that."
So Labour’s fiscal rules are absolutely "non-negotiable" but the difference with the Tories is that Labour would "negotiate" these "non-negotiable" rules.
I am sure that workers in the NHS and our schools will be warmly reassured by the thought of a Labour government sitting down and discussing with them the reasons why they can't have the rises recommended by independent pay review bodies.
According to Rachel Reeves any wage settlement will have to be in line with Labour's fiscal rule – that debt must be falling as a share of national income after five years.
Perhaps Reeves will personally sit down with workers in the NHS and our schools and explain to them why they are responsible for the national debt.
2 + 2 ≠ 5
So Labour’s fiscal rules are absolutely “non-negotiable” but the difference with the Tories is that Labour would “negotiate” these “non-negotiable” rules
https://twitter.com/StephanieKelton/status/1670749246780309504?t=UCPpqqO3VB4mYnrWII8CaQ&s=19
Yeah we know.
https://twitter.com/StephanieKelton/status/1670896120082452480?t=Zgpd4S3ZWzhdEJYHxSubPA&s=19
Lol at NMT.