Yup - time to get rid of the idiots.
tjagain
SubscriberI see him as a very good choice. My only doubt is how well he can connect with the public at large.
Well if my Father-In-Law is anything to go by he has connected with a lifelong Conservative voter and DM reader!
I was talking to him at lunchtime, he had watched him with Andrew Marr this morning and thought he came over very well. Clear concise and no vague waffle, in his words the exact opposite of Boris Johnson.
I’ve known him for 38 years and I don’t think I have ever heard him say anything good about a Labour leader, perhaps that’s more an indication of how shite the Conservative lot are to him I don’t know?
I really hope Kier can make a go of this.
. sounds like Gardiner was sacked.
I'm sure thats a relief for everyone involved
He’s left wing
He's that left wing I couldn't read his article in The Times due to subscription.
Boris will get at least 2 terms, Labour party are finished I cant see them getting back there heartlands for years. If Boris and his ministers have any sense they should complete promises made to the North.
First shadow cabinet announcements
Serious shake up then. Good.
tjagain
SubscriberI see him as a very good choice. My only doubt is how well he can connect with the public at large.
I see him as the very best choice Labour had - because what a very poor choice they had!
As Sir Keir Starmer he will find it difficult connecting with traditional working class Labour voters. He looks every bit the typical Oxford graduate sleazy modern politician, and was a staunch Remainer too.
Mistake one - Nandy. she is just an idiot. Such an idiot she had to be slapped down by Murray who is a first rate idiot
Yes Rone, people who read The Times get a vote, and need to be won over to voting for Labour rather than the rabble they voted into power at previous elections.
Yes Mooman, even people in the North are capable of voting for someone who went to Oxford. You can look into Starmer’s background yourself, if you think he’s not connected to the working class.
I see him as the very best choice Labour had – because what a very poor choice they had!
That ties in with your inability to see anything but the very worst in any situation, based on the posts of yours I've seen.
Mooman - he is a long way from that sterotype. Johnson he is not. Look at his background
If you’re suggesting that Starmer comes from privileged, elite background then you’re an idiot who’s clearly incapable of using google. He’s actually pretty much the benchmark for achievement having come from a humble background
I think he’s perfect for this moment where the country is clearly realising that in a crisis, you’re going to demand more from a leader than some Latin quotes, tussled hair and flippant quips. You can’t wing this one!
Someone with a fair bit of gravitas and authority is going to quickly provide a huge contrast to the bumbling fool presently holed up in number 10.
There’s an air of a truce in politics at the moment. That won’t last long, and there’s going to be one almighty day of reckoning once some semblance of normality is resumed.
Mistake one – Nandy. she is just an idiot. Such an idiot she had to be slapped down by Murray who is a first rate idiot
Nandy is no fool, and appears to be one of the few who understands the challenge of reconnecting with lost northern voters.
As Sir Keir Starmer he will find it difficult connecting with traditional working class Labour voters. He looks every bit the typical Oxford graduate sleazy modern politician, and was a staunch Remainer too.
so you're not aware of his background at all?
and being a brexiter is something all politicians will be trying to distance themselves from before long
Nandy was predicting for about 12 months what was going to happen in the ‘northern heartlands’ at the general election. But nobody in Islington wanted to hear it.
She’s more of an understanding of what’s required to win those seats back than anyone else in the party
I'm not sure I like all this Keir love. What the hell are we going to argue about for the next four years? Binners will be made redundant.
He’s got to get rid of Corbyns hopeless and overpaid henchmen in party headquarters yet.
Do you think that shower are going to go quietly?
I’m not sure I like all this Keir love. What the hell are we going to argue about for the next four years? Binners will be made redundant.
Thank f***.
Do you think that shower are going to go quietly?
Milne has already gone. Formby is a mere administrator, and Murphy a manager. I think you overestimate their power now that Corbyn has gone.
ransos
Nandy is no fool, and appears to be one of the few who understands the challenge of reconnecting with lost northern voters.
Which North are you talking about?
Because in the actual North the SNP has swept up and annihilated the Labour vote, and she has done a wonderful job of antagonising them, so I don't see her getting any traction on recovering the 40+ Labour seats they used to get up here. You can count the number of current Scottish Labour MPs on the pinky of one hand.
Starmer is the son of a toolmaker, it's also worth pointing out that Labour supporters for the most part backed Remain.
TBH, Starmer winning the leadership vote has been the first piece of good news in politics for a very long time.
Nandy is an idiot. ~See her comments about Scotland which she doubled down on. She is young and perhaps will learn but that showed such a lack of political nous - as bad as anything RLB has said.
Her idea of reconnecting with the lost northern english voters seems to be " pander to the racists, play the race card". Mind you it sort of worked for Burnham.
Anyway, Annelise Dodds, a member of McDonnell's treasury team instead of Reeves as shadow chancellor. Thank god for that. And no Cooper or Benn so far so all good. Not fussed about Nandy being foreign sec, it's a shit job with very little influence on anything important. It reminds me of when May made boris foreign sec.
tjagain
Subscriber
Mooman – he is a long way from that sterotype. Johnson he is not. Look at his background
Of course I know his background, hence why I wrote He looks .. not He is.
Uncle Jezza... much as I love you, you don’t half talk some nonsense about Andy Burnham in particular, and politics in Northern England generally.
Nandy was bloody stupid in her remarks about Scotland, but personally I think Scotland is now a lost cause for Labour anyway.
But in her comments about the ‘northern heartlands’ (I ****ing HATE that expression), which were dismissed by a London-obsessed leadership, she was absolutely bang on! And it isn’t ‘pandering to racists’. That’s clearly how is was perceived by Corbyn and co in Islington. And look where that complacent, dismissive attitude got them?
Perhaps she’ll actually listened too now. She’s some very worthwhile things to say, and it’s nothing like the simplistic ‘racist’ attitude you too dismiss it as
Burnham played the race card in the Mayoral election in an utterly disgraceful way. I gave you the quotes a while back and you agreed.
Nandy has show a stupendous lack of political judgement and knowledge - and refused to apologise for it.
I doubt that. I don’t believe for a second that Andy Burnham is a racist
Anyway... let’s get back on topic. That isn’t really what the threads about
I think it's all about personality. KS and LN come across as decent, genuine people (and dare I say honest!) so let's see what happens. They both seem to have hit a note with the public. Doesn't matter if you're North or South as long as everywhere is treated fairly. I hope KS takes the moral high ground and is adult in his political dealings. That will cause BJ to self destruct, it's not hard to outwit an idiot.
There’s no question that with Starmer as leader Boris and chums are not going to have the easy ride they’ve had for the last few years
And right now it’s really really important that there’s a proper opposition.
I doubt that. I don’t believe for a second that Andy Burnham is a racist
I think Burnham is as much of a racist as Corbyn is an anti-semite, but lets not go there 🙂
Nandy has show a stupendous lack of political judgement and knowledge
Hence why she's been given the job of worrying about the politics of other countries. She'll be so busy swotting up on capital cities and who foreign presidents are she won't even have the time to go down the chippy let alone get involved in anything going on here.
Oh I don't think Burnham is a racist either - but he did play the race card in the mayoral election and I did give yo the quotes binners and you agreed it was disgraceful
Long way off topic tho.
Well if my Father-In-Law is anything to go by he has connected with a lifelong Conservative voter and DM reader!
Yup, Boris wasn't popular, his approval ratings were dire. I think KS will appeal across the board.
Annelise Dodds, a member of McDonnell’s treasury team instead of Reeves
In contrast this is worrying. The spending promises in 2019 were just insane. (Christ we're in the worst crisis since WW2 and the worst economix chrisis since the Great Depression and we're *still* only spending what MCDonnell was going to piss up the wall.) Of course the fact she worked for the Shadow Treasury team doesn't mean she agreed with the policy. (EDIT: Just checked and she's not in the Socialist Campaign Group - so she'll be fine.)
So in my view FWIW KS is going to be really good. He's got rid of the Momentum hold on the NEC and the leadership. *If* he isn't really good he's still going to be 10,000,000,000 time better than Momentum/Corbyn. The membership got Labour into the mess, and they got them out of it.
Is there any "Dirt" in his past the right wing press can use against him? He was pretty quick to snatch the antisemitic beating stick out of their hands.
They will look for some Klunk - and invent some if they find none. I expect it to firstly be over his legal career - either failing to prosecute properly some unsavory types or when he was an human rights lawyer. Terrorist friend
Its already started in fact - first result I got on google is an attack based on his supposed wealth with a dig about his work as a lawyer
tjagain
They will look for some Klunk – and invent some if they find none.
We have poisonous media in this country. There's no way we should be in a position where the bulk of it is foreign owned.
And it should be more fragmented into more independently owned units. Otherwise we get the situation we now have where the politicians have to lick Murdoch's arse.
Is there any “Dirt” in his past the right wing press can use against him?
Just woken up and seen my first "uncited terrible font jpg" smear posted on Facebook. Accusing of Starmer being in charge of the initially dismissed Saville case.
So it begins.
report it as fake news
As Sir Keir Starmer he will find it difficult connecting with traditional working class Labour voters
You mean the ones that voted in pretty huge numbers for Eton-educated, descendant of royalty, professional bumbling toff Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson?
Which North are you talking about?
Pretty obviously I was talking about northern England, as that's where Labour took a hammering in the last GE. Scotland was lost a long time ago.
Scotland was not lost " a long time ago" and there is clearly a very volatile group in the electorate that does not have a huge party allegiance.
The issues for labour in Scotland are much the same as in northern england - its the actions of the labour mps and msps that caused the drop in votes and the way that westminster ignored the concerns of local people
You mean the ones that voted in pretty huge numbers for Eton-educated, descendant of royalty, professional bumbling toff Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson?
The candidate who vowed to carry out the result of a recent referendum rather than stomp all over democratic you mean?
Simplistic reductionist messaging may have been the sure fire way to win the last election, but voters may well be looking for something different in a couple of years time.
Scotland was not lost ” a long time ago” and there is clearly a very volatile group in the electorate that does not have a huge party allegiance.
The issues for labour in Scotland are much the same as in northern england – its the actions of the labour mps and msps that caused the drop in votes and the way that westminster ignored the concerns of local people
If a politician had come out with that kind of nonsense, you'd be calling them an idiot.
The issues for Labour in Scotland are quite obviously not the same as they are in northern England. The last time I checked, the SNP wasn't fielding a candidate in my constituency.
The underlying issues are very similar IMO. the main differnce is there is an easy alternative to vote for but the reasons for the collapse are very similar in mayny ways
A feeling of not being listened to / being dictated to from afar.
The candidate who vowed to carry out the result of a recent referendum rather than stomp all over democratic you mean?
Maybe so, yes, but it still shows that they don't care whether the person they're voting for was born in Kensington or Kilmarnock; they vote for the party (well, let's be honest, they vote for the leader) that has a coherent (god help me) 'vision' that resonates with them and the perceived competence to achieve it.
Oh god! I agree with TJ!
If the voters of northern England had been offered the same credible alternative as those in Scotland were with the SNP then the labour party's electoral anhialation would have been exactly the same, years ago!
They've all just voted Tory FFS! In places where the large scale hatred of the Tory party is absolutely visceral with a good chunk of voters.
Starmer is going to have one hell of a job on his hands to win those voters back.
I'm sure that will be aided by the Tory's failing to deliver on grand promises in these northern seats, using coronavirus as a handy catch-all excuse for continued austerity, but labour will have to offer a credible, believable alternative. Something it hasn't done for quite some time
Very happy at the result. Looks like we have a sensible and credible opposition.
His career has been very impressive. I'm a fan anyway.
I’m sure that will be aided by the Tory’s failing to deliver on grand promises in these northern seats
Wishful thinking. Outside of Liverpool the northern idiots believe whatever they read in the sun and the daily mail. It'll be Red Ed all over again with the added bonus of him being a posh lawyer from 'that London'. If there's one thing I've learned from a lifetime of living up north it's that the chip on the shoulder is much stronger than any rational thinking about what's best for them. The only reason Blair got away with it is because he pretended to be a northerner by supporting the toon. Starmer is a devoted gunner so he's got no chance.
Starmer is a devoted gunner so he’s got no chance.
Sweet Jesus! Now you tell me.
Burgon is gone
phew!
Looks like some lucky village is about to get its idiot back
Though it is of course a tragedy that the Tony Benn Memorial University of Political Education will not now be built 🙁
How gone?
Will he be popping up occasionally in the media to open his mouth and undo the hard work of the rest of the Labour Party?
I think Jeremy has already bagsied that job.
Why stop now?
I'll bet you a feast in Greggs that Corbyn does not do that! ) or did you mean me?
Andrew Gwynne gone as well. Starmer is having a right good clearout. Still no announcement of a job for RLB - my guess Starmer ( having said he would include her) offered her a post suitable for her skills and she declined wanting one of the big jobs
Simplistic reductionist messaging may have been the sure fire way to win the last election, but voters may well be looking for something different in a couple of years time.
The voters are not going to suddenly become more aware or more intelligent so Starmer needs to show good leadership along with some good policies for those that can read past "Get Brexit Done" while also condensing his goals down to "Get Brexit Done" so the majority will get it.
Just read the Youtube, FB and Twitter comments under his acceptance speech. Test the temperature. Burst your bubble.
Simplistic reductionist messaging may have been the sure fire way to win the last election, but voters may well be looking for something different in a couple of years time.
After the recession I mean austerity I mean Brexit/Nationalistic-fever I mean 2-year lockdown of recent times, we can look forward to global depression very soon, then (if history is any guide) rising Nationalism and war/s.
Human nature (when tested) seems to favour ‘shove thy neighbour’.
Alt concluded in a study of economic decline in the United Kingdom that economic distress makes the policy preferences of most voters less “generous,” or “altruistic,” rendering the political climate less hospitable for left‐wing parties, and Durr showed that voters in the United States tend to become more liberal in good times and more conservative in bad times
Yes it’s a negative outlook. I don’t expect anything good going forwards. We’re basically chimpanzees playing dress-up, yet when the shit hits the fan the costumes tend to come off right quick. We’ve enjoyed (in the UK) enormous peace* and security on our Island for the last 4 decades. I’ll be taking some of those memories with me as supplies down this final road.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Peace
I’ll bet you a feast in Greggs that Corbyn does not do that!
You're on! Usual pastry-based wager uncle Jezza? That egotistical, sanctimonious old duffer won't be able to help himself! He'll be chipping in with a running commentary, with his usual total absense of self-awareness
On that note, guess what I'm having for lunch? Debs has been to Iceland this morning, so I've got Greggs steak bakes and sausage rolls. Its the best thing that's happened in weeks!! 😀
Still no announcement of a job for RLB
Excellent! Its looking good so far. A proper clearout of the deadwood
Excellent! Its looking good so far.
Except all it will do is provoke a war with the left. What's the point in that? You say you want to the party to win and be pragmatic. That's only going to happen with unity. That's not going to happen if RLB is not given an important job.
Why reward failure? They had their chance. They were worse than useless.
Off you pop to the backbenches, where you belong. In Richard Burgons case, out by the bins
Has environment been announced yet? I’m still hoping RLB will get that, but it does look like he’s going for mostly “fresh” faces on the front bench (fresh for the public that is, most of the appointments so far seem to be people who’ve quietly been working on that brief for a while) so perhaps she’ll get a party role rather than a shadow minister brief. Back to the back benches would be a mistake… no announcement yet suggests they are discussing which role, and a no role result is only likely if RLB turns down everything she is offered.
Why reward failure? They had their chance.
Pragmatism is alive and well I see. All the protestations about doing what it takes to win were just hot air, because what you really want is to continue the internal divisions and internecine warfare on a point of ideology. Anyway, you're jumping the gun. RLB will get a post, the alternative is the certain failure of Starmer's primary goal to unify the party.
Again.... it's not about ideology at all. Its about possessing a basic level of competence. Not too much to ask, you'd think, if you're after the job of running the country.
I can't see any reason why any of the architects of Labours worst election result for 85 years should retain a senior frontbench position. And that includes Long Bailey as she was heavily involved in writing a laughable manifesto which virtually nobody believed was credible
RLB has not been given one of the top jobs! Starmer is in a real position of power within the party right now. The left are not going to create much if any public fuss
Anyway, you’re jumping the gun. RLB will get a post, the alternative is the certain failure of Starmer’s primary goal to unify the party.
Binners and co dont want a united party. They want to purge the unbelievers and recast the party in their pure image.
The left are not going to create much if any public fuss
Yeah there is the advantage that unlike the moderates those of a more left wing persuasion arent so dogmatically purist and so would be more willing to compromise and support rather than spend their time trying to destroy.
You're really not getting the concept of pragmatism, are you?
If you had a defender who'd nodded in two own goals in the last match before getting sent off, do you think they'd be on the team sheet any time soon?
Its not about ideology, its about competence
unlike the moderates those of a more left wing persuasion arent so dogmatically purist
Sorry, my irony meter just exploded 😂
Why reward failure? They had their chance. They were worse than useless.
Again…. it’s not about ideology at all. Its about possessing a basic level of competence.
Starmer was a prominent member of the shadow cabinet who contributed to two general election defeats. Can you explain why he gets a free pass?
We all know who the cabal were who were pulling the strings in the bunker.
Starmer certainly wasn't one of the inner sanctum. It was common knowledge that he only ever got any concessions from the politburo when he threatened to resign.
Rebecca Long Bailey, on the other hand...
those of a more left wing persuasion arent so dogmatically purist and so would be more willing to compromise and support
The Socialist Campaign Group won't be supporting the party any time soon. They'll return to the back benches and keep voting against their party at will just as they always have. I'm not saying they're wrong to do so, merely that they won't be supporting. (If support means following the whip.)
We all know who the cabal were who were pulling the strings in the bunker. Starmer certainly wasn’t one of the inner sanctum. It was common knowledge that he only ever got any concessions from the politburo when he threatened to resign
Classic cognitive dissonance: when presented with facts that contradict your belief, disregard the facts.
Starmer was a prominent member of the shadow cabinet who contributed to two general election defeats.
Exactly. He architected the single policy which sent hundreds of thousands of brexit supporting voters in the north and west midlands straight into the hands of Boris Johnson. Labour's brexit policy was the biggest failure of all. I don't think anyone, Starmer especially, has clean hands when it comes to the election defeat.
I don’t think anyone, Starmer especially, has clean hands when it comes to the election defeat.
Quite. Do we purge everyone who served in the shadow cabinet since they last won in 2007? Or just the people Binners doesn't like?
Locally, the leader, and lack of trust in thereof, was far more important than Brexit.
I’m hoping RLB gets a key role.
I have I idea what the purpose would be of seeking to pin the blame on RLB or Starmer for the failure of 2019. Only one name came up with people I failed to persuade to vote Labour… Corbyn.
Stuck record time… but the new team needs to include the best of the old team, and people who left or refused to serve under Corbyn, and entirely new faces.
Not giving RLB one of the biggest positions, but giving her another key role, would be the right move from Starmer… but RLB might turn that down still. We’ll see soon…
Binners and co dont want a united party. They want to purge the unbelievers and recast the party in their pure image.
This is exactly what needs to be done, you had your chance and blew it spectacularly causing so far five years of tory rule(excluding 2010-2015, That's on Cleggs hands).
I still find it amazing that you lot even thought that Corbynism or whatever you wanted to call it, would have succeeded when the range of opposition against you was obvious.
Blair won by appealing to a wider range of voter, alot of them tory, Corbyn was never going to do that, But Blair also had help from a certain media outlet who at the time was feuding with Major, and with the voting system the way it is...he needed it.
The road back will be even more difficult now because of the abundance of fake news circulating through social media, 5G masts anyone? Most of the population in my view are poorly educated, lack critical thinking capabilities(Not common Sense, because it's wrong in a lot of cases) and they "don't do politics" even though politics does them.
The voting system must be the first thing that is changed, if the tories have to get more percentage of the vote, then they have to appeal to a broader spectrum of voter, instead of this narrow viewed Privatise everything, destroy the state, totally free market Tufton street lunacy which went unnoticed by those who voted for them "to get Brext done". 44% of the vote and an 80 seat majority is unacceptable in a modern democracy.
The parties can only then become a broader church, or actually split into the four parties they always were, and coalitions can be formed, this also has the added benefit of introducing other parties that are not tory or labour into the equation...with potential issues.
The second thing will be dealing with the written media. You can't have a free press when so much of it is concentrated into so few hands.
Starmer has to be seen to be clearing out the failures, while I do agree with the he's "just another London elite", it's quite easy to counter this when you point out whose in Government.
The opposition now have to state the bleeding obvious and go full on attack for the next few years, there will be plenty of opportunity with this lot.
Outside of Liverpool the northern idiots believe whatever they read in the sun and the daily mail. It’ll be Red Ed all over again with the added bonus of him being a posh lawyer from ‘that London’. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from a lifetime of living up north it’s that the chip on the shoulder is much stronger than any rational thinking about what’s best for them.
some chips are larger than others......
The road back will be even more difficult now because of the abundance of fake news circulating through social media, 5G masts anyone? Most of the population in my view are poorly educated, lack critical thinking capabilities(Not common Sense, because it’s wrong in a lot of cases) and they “don’t do politics” even though politics does them.
there are people with PHds who are 5G conspiracy believers and seem happy to tell the world their thoughts