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Nothing of any relevance to 99.99999999% of people lives, that’s for sure
Absolutely typical!
Well said indeed.
The thing these loosers hate about the K-dozer is that he's 110% win mentality.
Decent, normal working people couldn't give two hoots about any of this lefty stuff.
What we want is protection against the immigrants, funding for miliary and respect our monarchy.
Sir Kee Kee is smashing it.
What we want is protection against the immigrants, funding for miliary and respect our monarchy.
Were you standing to attention singing the national anthem when you typed that?
Don't read Copa's posts literally.
Copas post read tongue in cheek to me
Yes, I've not been keeping up so missed the previous ones. Sorry copa.
I read them as if you posted them Dazh... they make sense then.
= ;8^)
Nothing of any relevance to 99.99999999% of people lives, that’s for sure
So why did the glorious leader make it a three line whip? He chose to make it an issue not them.
Can you really not see why people who have been involved in the trade union movement, for example, wouldnt be extremely opposed to the police being given free reign to carry out illegal actions? You dont think there is some history there which makes people somewhat wary?
Its a dangerous piece of legislation as it allows illegal actions to be signed off with pretty much zero oversight. Anyone sensible and sane on any side of the political spectrum should be heavily opposed to it.
I strongly suspect that he sees some merit in the proposed legislation,
There is - sometimes the police need to break the law in order to do their job - from speeding to drug deal stings to covert surveillance. IIRC recent court cases have meant there is no protection for them for doing so.
the problem with the legislation is that there are insufficient checks and balances
Nothing of any relevance to 99.99999999% of people lives, that’s for sure
..... Until the day comes when it does become relevant.
And
I don’t know if you noticed or not but we’re in the middle of a global pandemic, today is the cut-off date for a no-deal Brexit, the countries economy is heading for collapse
Is precisely the opportunity to slide in policies like this under the radar.
It's possible to oppose things like this AND deal with the other issues above.
I'd say it was an error of judgement by Starmer. It would have gone through if they'd voted against it anyway.
If he'd made a stand and explained where the legislation was wrong people might have listened. But with everything else going on, the government are banging through shit like this while they can.
Ooof… Newsnight piece on Starmer… well, it wasn’t really, it was more just a chance for people from all wings of Labour to each have a go at sabotaging all the ongoing hard work to get the public to back Labour.
Nothing new then.
Yes I thought it was out of the blue and frankly weird
It confirmed one thing, Diane Abbot is a joke politician. (I actually think she might be unwell given her displays in recent years).
McCluskey was overtly anti-Semitic too. It's very strange timing, there is enough going on in the world so why spend so much time on a really poor hatchet job?
The vast majority of people are not watching Newsnight so pretty irrelevant what pieces they run and anyone that thinks what is discussed on Newsnight, Andrew Marr and so on are not realising how it works in 2020.
I didn’t see it but surely Dianne Abbot not liking you is a good thing?
For those who didn't see it why is Diane Abbot getting abused online yet again?
racism
Thinking back, it was very odd. Now I know the short clips used were provided by people from within the Labour movement... but the editing really was very odd indeed. Easy to imagine that most contributors gave an honest and fair assessment of who they think Starmer is, how he became leader, and the challenges in front of him... but the short clips used felt like it had a very clear aim. You could say that those interviewed were deliberately sabotaging the party... and that was partly my initial reaction... but I'm not sure that should really fall at their feet... they were edited to fit that narrative, I suspect.
Could you give us a quote from McLusky to support your allegation?
Maybe Kuenssberg edited the article?
Watch it on iPlayer Bill.
It's normally up to the person making the claim to provide evidence. I'm not really interested in watching Newsnight as successive Tory governments have reduced the BBC to a government PR agency Putin would recognise.
I just find people slagging off DA in personal terms is usually indicative of racism/sexism, as TJ said. Is it coincidence that the no 1 target of vile hatred and abuse in UK politics is a (left wing) black woman? Of course not.
successive Tory governments have reduced the BBC to a government PR agency Putin would recognise.
I love those sort of comments, when I have to listen to my parents berating the BBC for its left wing, anti Tory, anti-Brexit stance on everything 🤣
Yeah but I'm right and they're wrong 😉
I think the BBC has traditionally been lefty/liberal leaning but those days are long gone. Anti Brexit maybe to a degree but that's just being pro-reason. And they've done an awful lot to promote Farage.
I think people who claim the BBC is left biased are comparing it to the rabid right wing billionaire owned tabloids.
@grum - McCluskey made a reference to Mandelson roughly saying he should stay out of it and stay at home counting his gold. An old anti-Semitic trope.
He's since apologised, didn't know PM's religiong blah blah blah. It is fair to assume that he knew that some of his family are Jewish. It's on Twitter if you can be arse to look.
Regarding Abbot, watch the interview
Thanks ELShalimo - yup hard to believe he didn't know the context, what an idiot.
Anyone slagging off Abbott would be well advised to spend a couple of minutes reading this:
I like Abbot. And I fully expect her to speak her mind. The Newsnight piece did make it look like she was (with others from all wings of the party) sabotaging the party at this point, just when the public are turning away from the government, and towards Labour. Is that 90% on whoever put the piece together? I think it might be. She knows enough not to do the remaining 10% of the work though... and it is clear that she is a shadow of her former self... which will come to us all I'm afraid. I find watching recent interviews with her, whether long form or snipped up like this, very depressing on many levels... made worse for knowing about all the ongoing abuse she has to live with.
Yep she was great.... but the glory days were a long time ago. Her performances in the last few years have not reached those stellar levels.
What I don't understand is what does she, McCluskey etc achieve by publicly slagging off Starmer. The editing looks like a hatchet job by the BBC but they should be shrewder than that. What is their agenda?
Do they have something to hide in the soon to be released anti-Semitism report? Or is it just sour grapes? It's as mind-boggling as the BBC article was strange
🤔
What I don’t understand is what does she, McCluskey etc achieve by publicly slagging off Starmer.
They've spent their entire careers relentlessly committed to keeping the Tory's in power, they're not about to stop now.
I didn't really think my opinion of Len could get any lower but I nearly spat my organic fairtrade Argentine Malbec all over my sourdough crackers and brie when he came out with that statement about Mandleson.
If any of the usual suspects would like to now pop on and tell me how the Corbynite wing of the party definitely aren't anti-Semitic, in light of that, that'd be lovely
You can't label that many people because of the words and actions of McCluskey. He is a special level of odiousness not shared by many others, whatever their political allegiances.
Mandelson celebrated people getting filthy rich under New Labour, getting ennobled and boasting of his daily divisive behaviour. Can we find something to say about him that isn't a 'trope' or is he above criticism?
Can we find something to say about him that isn’t a ‘trope’ or is he above criticism?
You could write chapter and verse about Mandleson without resorting to anti-Semitic tropes.
That tells you all you need to know about Len McClusky
But theres no antisemitism in the labour left, is there? Of course not.
Peter Mandelson is Jewish? Anyway McCluskey has been successful again at winding up his haters. Instead of talking about Mandelson's money though he'd have been better off highlighting his links with Russian oligarchs and american paedophiles. A missed opportunity if ever there was one.
There is a strand of anti semitism in the left of the labour party, and it should have been rooted out much sooner, but it's a shame that the labour centrists were more interested in weaponising it against Corbyn than they were in criticising a prime minister who calls black people grinning picanninies and Muslim women letterboxes.
Genuine anti semitism is to be reviled but there's also a hefty campaign to conflate any even legitimate criticism of Israel as anti semitic. The difficulty is in the grey areas between the two.
Can we find something to say about him that isn’t a ‘trope’ or is he above criticism?
We can say his "contribution" in that Newsnight piece was as bad as anyone else's. Again, not entirely his fault, but it couldn't have happened without him being willing to throw useful rocks to be edited into the stoning. Historically... I hated his "comfortable with people getting filthy rich" line... and he long ago rowed back from it...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jan/26/mandelson-people-getting-filthy-rich
But the "counting your gold" comment is a very odd phrase to use. And I long ago stopped giving Len McCluskey the benefit of the doubt... I don't think anyone should be by now. Backing him because you are on the left is entirely counterproductive. Labour needs rid of him.
Mandelson was an utter shit - a tory in the wrong party and did massive damage to labour
Well, Mandelson is one of the people that stopped me from voting Labour back then. Probably the key person. Now, the Left (I include my self there) need to acknowledge that McCluskey is keeping people away from Labour today. And how it can be any other way?!? Just listen to him! Stop taking sides… distance the party from him ASAP. Call him out for being the self serving game player and stirrer that he is.
Call him out for being the self serving game player and stirrer that he is.
Or just ignore him? Honestly most people haven't got a clue who he is so why give him a platform?
Labour do need to disassociate themselves from his comments and actions. Many people rightly or wrongly still think of Carry On at Your Convenience when they think about Labour and Unions. It's a myth kept alive by the right to good effect.
Or just ignore him?
I’ll pass that on to the media and press, and millions of voters.
Delete
Andy Burnham is doing a great job of taking on the Government.
Slaps down on the utter lameness of Starmer in this process. This is what an opposition should look like.
The government / BOE bought back £300 billion of bonds this year through Q/E. Covid has cost nothing in net terms. No tax increases needed. And that's before the fact the money was simply paid out for covid - just like that.
They can absolutely afford it.
Absolute lying ideological ****s.
He’s not bad that Burnham… shame that he had to leave the parliamentary party.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1318937847924076545
Help.
Just where did the Tories get +3 from?
Did Starmer have good PMQs recently? I'm sure Jonathan Freedland said he did.
Maybe time to quit the long game - stop being forensic and start having a crack?
start having a crack?
Tune into politics occasionally, the opposition are attacking the government every day, in parliament and in the media. There’s a debate on in the commons right now that gives the public a clear dividing line… one that it is very easy for the public to step over the floor to Labour’s side… it’s almost a no brainer.
Always worth looking at a poll of polls to see trends…
https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/
What happened in April?
Just where did the Tories get +3 from?
Statistical noise.
Starmer shit at pmqs again. When will he start about Tory party corruption? Or if he's scared to do that he could couch it as Tory's wasting money on bad PPE deals.
This lot happened this week: ffs!
Russ (@RussInCheshire) Tweeted: 1. NHS staff were polled on whether, in recognition of their efforts to fight Covid 19, they would prefer to be given a badge or a snack box
2. It was reported 2 out of every 3 hospices will have to make redundancies. In a pandemic. https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1318525201282420736?s=20
Starmer shit at pmqs again. When will he start about Tory party corruption? Or if he’s scared to do that he could couch it as Tory’s wasting money on bad PPE deals.
The last opposition day debate was about exactly this, with strong contributions from across the Labour benches.
Maybe next week then?
It was last week.
Starmer shit at pmqs again
No, he wasn't.
He is right to use his 6 questions in a very focussed way to expose johnson as incompetent.
Any questions about tory corruption will just be laughed off and batted away by johnson.
The same for PPE...we used the emergency provision in public sector procurement regulations to support the NHS and care homes.
Yes, I know that is bollocks but that is how johnson would respond.
PPE and other dodgy contract awards are, as you know, being challenged in the courts by the Good Law Project.
kelvin
Full Member
It was last week.
Why is he ignoring it then? Maybe there is a good reason?
The reason Boris is +3 is because Burnham was daft enough to put a figure on the rescue package. 65 million sounds a lot but is no where near enough to support the North during another lockdown and Boris knows this. He offers 60 million as a token gesture and the vast majority think he’s being reasonable even generous and Burnham is playing politics with COVID. I wish they’d sat down and realised the figure they would need would be too big to ask for in a lumper and instead negotiated an extra support package on an individual business basis.
Why is he ignoring it then?
He isn’t, you are.
The reason Boris is +3 is because Burnham was daft enough to put a figure on the rescue package. 65 million sounds a lot but is no where near enough to support the North during another lockdown and Boris knows this. He offers 60 million as a token gesture and the vast majority think he’s being reasonable even generous…
Check the period that poll was conducted over. I don’t think your narrative, even if it made sense, fits the timeline.
Keir hasn't asked a question about it in pmqs. Why doesn't he put Boris on the spot?
He's probably waiting for the next calamity to occur
A week is a long time in Politics nowadays. Can you remember what we were discussing last week?
Keir hasn’t asked a question about it in pmqs. Why doesn’t he put Boris on the spot?
If you're referring to PPE and other questionable contract awards, Starmer has 6 questions and he must use them as effectively as possible.
johnson knows there are legal actions being fronted by The Good Law Project; Starter knows the same and him weighing in now won't add anything to the legal case(s) so he's using his PMQ allocation judiciously to highlight johnson's incompetence and inconsistency,
re-inforcing the message that johnson has lost control and doesn't have a plan to regain it; that he is wilfully damaging the nation's health and economy.
That is a far bigger issue than mis-use of public funds - and, yes, I know that the PPE scandal has caused deaths and is, in essence, a government approved fraud.
Starmer is, rightly, focussed on the bigger picture.
An interesting article by my former Labour MP, who lost his seat last December by 100 votes.
I was a red wall Labour MP – this is what Keir Starmer can learn from Andy Burnham
I think, like a lot of people (myself included), Starmer needs to start being a lot bolder and more visible and vocal in holding the government to account now. With the North in lockdown with no way out, the test and trace still a total shambles, and the debacle of free school meals, the Labour party need to be landing some blows now.
Any national unity and feeling of all being 'in this together' is long gone, so the labour party should start being a lot more vocal and pointing out the mess the government is making of all this. The reticence to be seen to 'play politics' surely no longer applies
Is this part of the long term strategy?
Keir and cyclists
Yeah I also just saw another news source and thought 'when worlds collide'
BBC Kier collides with cyclist
Fortunately it sounds like a relatively minor incident.
Obviously trying to woo back the red wall Brexity Labour voters by tackling those pesky cyclists!
I'm very much with Binners on this now. Stop being reasoned. Put Boris on the rack* at PMQs and ask "what happened to the billions that hadn't delivered the track and trace that you said was needed before schools could go back", "when will we get a refund that will help pay for the furlough costs required because T&T didn't deliver", "could you have sorted the free school meals with that money you wasted", "what is your plan to get us out of this mess that your incompetence has created before we risk deaths spiralling again you incompetent buffoon"
*I'm happy if he actually uses a proper rack btw
Absolutely. Now is the time for Starmer to kick De Pfeffel in the nads repeatedly and publicly.
This is a moment that will stick in the memories of your average voter. Emphasise the incompetence, the cronyism, repeatedly bring up Barnard Castle, repeatedly bring up the shonky PPE scandal, repeatedly bring up Dido Harding's hopeless track record and current performance.
Now is also the time to make the Tories own the Brexit shitshow in the public perception. Try to paint the picture that better Brexits are/were available without 'betraying the will of the people' and not openly admitting that all Brexit variations are just a sliding scale of crapness. Avoid that big question and just keep banging on at what is actually unfolding and who is to blame.
Labour will never convince the true gammony nutters, but there are a lot of Leavers who now regret their vote. Glue that regret to what is going to happen in January.
He indicated left but turned right.
a proper rack
Which, incidentally, is one of the main reasons Jennifer Arcuri got all that public money gifted to her by Shagger Johnson.
He paid for servicing rendered.
Starmer also needs to start pointing out the obvious repetition of the same mistakes as this second wave strikes. Yes, first time around there "might" be a case that it was a new situation no one was ready for, but if he highlights all the warnings that were given in the run up to September, all the systems the government said had to be in place but aren't, it firmly pins the blame on their blinkered refusal to learn from previous errors.
Stop being reasoned
Being reasoned is the best way to go at this time, because:
“what happened to the billions that hadn’t delivered the track and trace that you said was needed before schools could go back”, “when will we get a refund that will help pay for the furlough costs required because T&T didn’t deliver”, “could you have sorted the free school meals with that money you wasted”
Will be water off a ducks back to this lot, the public will either largely ignore it, or take the view that all Governments are corrupt...but this will ferment as we head further in to this Governments next four years and there will be more corruption. Some things you have to keep your powder dry for.
“what is your plan to get us out of this mess that your incompetence has created before we risk deaths spiralling again you incompetent buffoon”
Now this is fertile ground to hit them with, though do we want to get rid of Boris just yet?
Any national unity and feeling of all being ‘in this together’ is long gone, so the labour party should start being a lot more vocal and pointing out the mess the government is making of all this. The reticence to be seen to ‘play politics’ surely no longer applies
To all intents and purposes, the vote last week in Parliament was good..in a very bad way, the Tories would never support an opposition motion and Labour knew it, which was a devastating broadside into the Government, as this more than the above has really hit a raw nerve in the Country.
Premier Icon
BillMC
Full MemberHe indicated left but turned right
Bravo!
+1
🙂
ElShalimo
Free MemberHe’s probably waiting for the next calamity to occur
I think he is. But it doesn't work when you've got this many disasters, because the newest one just pushes the oldest one out of the public eye prematurely. Just like covid, this government has managed to attain a state of constant sustainable disaster, and still sits fine in the polls. Disasters won't cut it, that's been obvious for a long time now. This is a government that was elected specifically to deliver a disaster ffs!
Just my opinion but I think Starmer's approach of just pointing out when there's a disaster ought to work, and in any sane political world would. But this isn't a sane political world.
I don't think being 'reasoned' with someone like Robert 'Honest Bob' Jenrick is the way to go at all.
When that crook is trotted out again to blather meaningless patronising platitudes in defence of another **** up, whoever is on the other mic needs to hit him with:
"How many free school meals could be funded with the £45m tax bill you helped, unlawfully by your own admission, Tory Party donor Richard 'Dirty' Desmond to dodge?"
And until the mo-fo answers the question keep asking it over and over again until he walks out.
Or ask that question direct to Johnson during PMQs. Make it apparent that De Pfeffel wouldn't have a clue what one FSM costs, couldn't do the maths in his head anyway (an old favourite) and if he could it would put real-world context on a tax fraud committed by one of his ministers....who is still in post and positively bouncing about the place.
jenrick's attempt to help Desmond avoid the infrastructure levy at Westferry is a dead issue and irrelevant; easy for jenrick to duck that one and Desmond has now offered to pay a £43mill CIL if permission is granted.
Starmer needs to be highly focussed in any questions to johnson.
How about these, for example - they can be merged...
- how many children in UK are on FSM
- what is the weekly cost per child and in total
- why do you and members of your from bench continue referring to £63 million allocated earlier in the year when it was stated that funding would run out in about 3 months so by end September - that money can't be spent twice
- if the estimated cost of FSM for one week is c£63milion that is about 0.5% of the spend to date on a failed/failing test'n'trace system; it's 0.4% of the spend on emergency PPE contract awards most of which have been kept secret to avoid scrutiny
- in the context of government spending, the cost of providing FSMs for a week is not even a rounding error
- how offensive is it to parents of children on FSM - and to any right-thinking person - to hear a member of your party say that some parents exchange FSM vouchers for drugs; will you condemn that comment
If only there was a PMQs session today...
EHCR due to be published today isn’t it?
Starmer response to ECHR report seems to have gone down well
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1324642792027676672?s=19
And we are about to jump off that brexit cliff
He's also started banging the "government delay/incompetence is making this lockdown harder than it needed to be" drum. Which is about bloody time.
Or maybe the Press are starting to report him doing it.
Slow & steady wins the race
I can't see much good news for Johnson on the horizon
Elections a looong way off
But I suppose Johnson will be gone once Tories are 10pts behind, I'm predicting February and the knives will be out