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That ship has already sailed.
Haven't we had a list of stuff before?
Yeah okay.
(Plus GB energy is one hollowed out around the houses construct. )
It's all getting a bit not worth looking at these days.
Economic stability is not a clear aim. Not sure it can be measured or makes any sense in isolation. Besides whatever economic stability does mean - it won't create any new money to spend.
Starmer is so lazy in his lazy-focussed approach. And no - boring isn't necessarily good.
In my mob there's people involved in recruitment to teaching and inspection and the situation is dire, particularly in the more deprived areas. How does he think he's going to recruit 6,500 extra teachers who are any good without upping the salary and status of the profession? 'Secureconomics' will guarantee that doesn't happen.
In my mob there’s people involved in recruitment to teaching and inspection and the situation is dire, particularly in the more deprived areas.
My partner says the same - as a Teacher.
So Starmergeddon happened
Big swing, but low vote share, low turnout, detracts from the fact that Labour were incredibly efficient with their votes, stacking them up in the right places, I dont think people ever really appreciated how ruthless he was going to be about making sure Labour won.
On the plus side, with enthusiasm for Labour low, he has the opportunity to surprise on the upside
Now there is a huge task ahead, 5 years to show improvement in peoples lives or they could well face a wipeout similar to the Tories in 2029
stacking them up in the right places,
Starmer was able to move votes across the country to where he needed them? The man is a genius!
He should have stacked a few more in his constituency though, his share of the vote halved. That's not a good look for a party leader on a winning streak.
Yes, Starmer and his team worked out WHERE the votes were needed, and sacrificed votes where they weren’t. A ruthless approach that’s earned him many detractors and enemies… and delivered Labour many more MPs and the chance for his party to control parliament and the government.
I guess you don't become a fairly competent criminal barrister by not knowing how to win. There's a quietly cold calculating man in there, that seemingly knows how to win a fight. Be interesting to see how things go on.
Starmer Is as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.
He managed to win a landslide victory for Labour with less votes than Corbyn got in 2019.
I know that I am often critical of Starmer but that is quite an achievement - to win a landslide despite not being very popular. And without any help from the Tories and Nigel Farage either.
Now let's see him work his magic in government.
Starmergeddon
So ashamed I didn't think of this 🙂
"He managed to win a landslide victory for Labour with less votes than Corbyn got in 2019."
and corbyn would have won this time? getting lots of votes in a few places just doesnt work under fptp
Starmer had to walk a tightrope to get to where we are this morning, and he did- he was never going to win on charisma!, he was getting piled on from left (gaza) & right (immigration) the press have been relentless in trying to take him down- from beergate to Rayners council house-
"the press have been relentless in trying to take him down"
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
That was meant to be a joke wasn't it?
Never in my lifetime have I seen a labour leader given such an easy ride by the press, even Blair had it tougher than Starmer.
"Never in my lifetime have I seen a labour leader given such an easy ride by the press, even Blair had it tougher than Starmer."
The argument there could be that he didn't give them anything to hang him by (the opposite of Corbyn). That also meant that he also didn't give the voters anything to get excited about.
He should now focus on two big things that matter to people and just get as much done of those as possible.
For example, make NHS better and help younger and/or poorer people with cost of living/housing. Both will ultimately cost money but people won't care about that if they can feel the improvement.
Older people will appreciate NHS as they are primary users of it and younger people will appreciate help and remember it when it comes to voting. Keep Labour in for a couple of terms and a lot of the old tory voters will be dead by then.
the press have been relentless in trying to take him down- from beergate to Rayners council house-
That's a really weird statement, I had to read it several times because I thought that I must be missing some words.
Beergate? Seriously? Imagine if Corbyn had been subjected to something as trivial as that. The main purpose was to distract the public from Boris Johnson's own shenanigans.
And Rayner's council house? Well, erm, the target there was obviously Angela Rayner, not Keir Starmer. The right-wing press seem to be much more concerned about Angela Rayner than Keir Starmer.
Indeed they tried to scare their readers by claiming that Rayner would be calling all the shots if Labour formed a government. They seemed very relaxed about Starmer. And why wouldn't they be? Even the Sun and the Times backed Starmer. Can you imagine them ever backing Corbyn?
https://twitter.com/premnsikka/status/1848601161974063158?t=a6OhXjAgWrkbZ15L4--O1Q&s=19
We're in the stage of normalising market and regulator failure.
But it doesn't matter because we cancelled Rwanda.
Pound to a penny the tabloids have Reeves in a witch costume come the budget.
Trying hard to ignore all the ridiculous blackhole articles as they've simply gotten out of hand when trying to reimagine how an economy should be operated- that is, in the interests of its electorate.
Political failure is tax and spend to serve that purpose which is why there's such a misunderstanding on how we pay for things.
Peter Lynch was the victim of a vengeful, out-of-touch Prime Minister
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/23/peter-lynch-was-victim-of-vengeful-prime-minister/
So according to this Daily Telegraph article Keir Starmer is responsible for the mess a racist conspiracy theorist found himself in.
It is interesting the piece claims that the Prime Minister is "out-of-touch" when there is clear evidence that the overwhelming majority of the public support the harsh sentences meted out by the courts to far-right racist rioters. Which suggests that it is Daily Telegraph gutter-rakers who are actually out-of-touch.
^^Yep and they are all "law and order" over cyclists or protesters against fossil fuel extraction.
If a Tory government had locked the rioters up, they would have been totally fine with it.
The fact that Richard Tice, an MP, was claiming Lynch was a political prisoner is downright dangerous. Sod freedom of speech, such bollocks needs consequences.
MoreCashThanDash
Full Member
The fact that Richard Tice, an MP, was claiming Lynch was a political prisoner is downright dangerous. Sod freedom of speech, such bollocks needs consequences.
I didn't know he'd said that but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Farage was on the news easier (sigh) hammering the labour members that are "interfering" in the US elections... He was asked about him going over there on a private jet etc. to support Trump but that's different and obviously ok according to him...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlnrjd3087o
I totally agree with Keir Starmer with regards to compensation although I believe there should be reparations in the form of education.
"The fact that Richard Tice, an MP, was claiming Lynch was a political prisoner is downright dangerous"
I agree.
"Sod freedom of speech"
I disagree.
He was asked about him going over there on a private jet etc. to support Trump but that’s different and obviously ok according to him…
From what I have read he is right. The labour lot are volunteers trying to get people voting whereas he is getting paid and trying to boost his profile.
Completely different.
From what I have read he is right. The labour lot are volunteers trying to get people voting whereas he is getting paid and trying to boost his profile.
Completely different.
Ha! You do have a point. <Thumbs up>
whereas he is getting paid and trying to boost his profile.
Who's paying him?
So yet against the economy is grinding along the floor (0.1% for Q3) and the pound (especially for Argee) has retreated to pre-election support levels. (Not that I care as it's not a particularly useful real economic metric but Libs do love the £/$ as evidence of the UK's success and stability.)
Larger point is that the budget is looking likely to unfold very badly.
The NI adjustment is a massive political and economic disaster and will add to the decline of the economy for sure. I've no idea why Labour got themselves in a 'working people' mess either.
All this because they dare not tax the real wealth.
Country needed a massive cash injection across the board - the NHS funding was welcome but nowhere near enough.
Inflation has come right back down and the BoE appear to be slowing on cuts. Why? Makes zero sense.
Meanwhile risk-on assets are booming and people with money are absolutely rinsing it.
There has never been a better time to show how the economy is working for small amounts of people. Markets and institutions holding all the cards, and democratic decisions failing because of some cowardly government not really understanding how to support the economy with its own Bank.
Labour really don't have any answers, and Reeves has put people in real danger by not making good financial support as we head into winter.
They really are the gift that keeps on giving for the far-right. Debates about black-holes have backfired and lost credibility. This was an economic home goal. (I'm also old enough to remember that Libs said Labour would look at the two child benefit cap in the budget too. Aged well.)
Lots have forgotten about the Tory mess and are now squarely thinking Labour are worse, because as said a million times if you don't sort the basic needs of people they will go where we don't want to go.
We've gotten used to the narrative that to tax is to deprive. (Witness the whining of the right over farm IHT). Rather than it's true function of redistribution through limiting wealth, power and resources for a few over the many.
Reeves in the Guardian.
Speaking at the glitzy annual gathering in the Square Mile on Thursday, the chancellor called the financial services sector the “crown jewel” of the UK economy.
“These changes have resulted in a system which sought to eliminate risk-taking. That has gone too far and, in places, it has had unintended consequences, which we must now address.”
Totally pathetic and doesn't reflect the truth of the economy, but does reflect her belief that these parasites create wealth for all of us.
Madness.
She really needs to go.
The Prime Minister today makes a hard, non-negotiable pledge to the readers of The Mail on Sunday. He says that he will fix the mess that is our welfare and employment system, and confront the costly monster of welfare fraud, if necessary with the full might of the law – a weapon he knows very well how to wield.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36pdz2gegjo
Perhaps someone should remind Keir Starmer that he has won the general election, now has a massive majority, and no longer needs to suck up to Daily Mail readers.
Instead of helping the Daily Mail to demonise benefit claimants perhaps the leader of the Labour Party could try his hand at tackling more urgent problems:
You’re 23 times more likely to be prosecuted for benefit fraud than tax fraud in the UK
Yet tax crimes cost the economy nine times more.
^^^^
This.
Unfortunately it is the ultimate legacy of the Brexit vote. Politicians of all stripes feel the need to pander to intolerance to some degree. Obviously some absolutely revel in it, but even Labour still feel the need.
Unfortunately it is the ultimate legacy of the Brexit vote.
Really ......... you don't think that the Daily Mail was banging on about benefit claimants, whilst ignoring tax cheats, 20, 30, or 40 years ago?
I see it as the ultimate legacy of New Labour/ Tony Blair
Btw since a reference was made to Brexit, with regards to Keir Starmer's comment piece in the Mail on Sunday, I have just remembered that the Mail on Sunday passionately backed Remain:
I was astonished to see the other day that the government are going to tinker with the rules for buying council houses.
But they have time an energy to relax the restrictions on the city of London which were brought in after 2008. It would appear those of us who said Starmer would be a terrible PM and Reeves a disastrous chancellor have been completely vindicated. Looks like we'll have to prepare ourselves for a Badenock-Farage double act in 2029.
Go on, you know you want to sign it.
All those years being told we couldn't have a second referendum on Brexit because reasons and now all these people saying it's totally fine to demand another election.
Makes you wonder if there's something wrong with our education system.
All those years being told we couldn’t have a second referendum on Brexit because reasons and now all these people saying it’s totally fine to demand another election.
Er, the reason there wasn't a second referendum was because not enough people voted Labour, there is no other reason - Labour were committed to a second referendum in 2019, which probably contributed significantly to their defeat.
Perhaps someone should remind Keir Starmer that he has won the general election, now has a massive majority, and no longer needs to suck up to Daily Mail readers.
He has cleary realised that he no longer needs to placate pro-Palestinian voters, so perhaps his pledges to the Mail readers are through choice, not political expediency?
Currently 917,304 signatures meaning more than a few folk unhappy.
I’ve not seen the Mail/benefits stuff, but there’s been plenty of closing of tax loopholes and additional funding for chasing tax evaders already. More to come I suspect.
It would appear those of us who said Starmer would be a terrible PM and Reeves a disastrous chancellor have been completely vindicated. Looks like we’ll have to prepare ourselves for a Badenock-Farage double act in 2029.
Why they've wasted this opportunity to go for the most muddled, divisive and illiterate 'plan' - I haven't got a clue.
(Weren't they going to turn left when in power?)
Starmer with his recent comment about private equity is just the icing on the cake. And Liz Kendall is just off her rocker.
Who'd have thought taking literal maligned Tory tidbits would be a way forward?
It feels exactly the same as just before the election.
Zero hope and ideas, randomly served up. None of this is a surprise really. I was a bit conned by the resident hopeful Centrists and their wait-for-the-budget comments. Sigh.
All those years being told we couldn’t have a second referendum on Brexit because reasons and now all these people saying it’s totally fine to demand another election.
How do you know it's the same people?
Makes you wonder if there’s something wrong with our education system.
Liberal snobbery as always doing more harm than good.
I mean, yeah, fix material conditions but our man Starmer and Reeves prefers the likes of Blackrock for your future son.
Over 1 Million signatures, brilliant!
cinnamon_girlFull Member
Over 1 Million signatures, brilliant!
Whatever the final number , some of which will be from people signing multiple times ( very simple to do as there are no identity checks) I honestly think that the majority who sign the petition have unrealistic expectations that it will make a jot of difference because they have been led into doing so by social media posts which are not honest. There will now be a debate in parliament but as the likelihood of any change is minuscule as the government has to say in response is that they have a mandate to govern from the recent election and will continue to do so. What is your expectation cinnamon girl?
Over 1 Million signatures, brilliant!
Ok?
So this tell us what exactly?
I dont think it is news that Starmer failed to carry every vote in the Uk. After all if he had then it would have been headline news since no other PM has ever come close.
I think all that can be said is a bunch of right wingers want a second chance which is a tad ironic given their attitude when they narrowly win.
@jimw It's sending a strong message especially as Labour received a low number of votes at the election as well as a low turn-out. The public are thoroughly disenchanted with these grifting politicians and I certainly don't remember any politicians having as many monikers as this empty vessel of a politician. No, it won't make a jot of difference, as you say, but I believe this politician to be very dangerous and only too willing to sell the UK down the river as per orders from his Davos chums. He is not serving the British public.
Is Starmer controlled by Davos?
but I believe this politician to be very dangerous and only too willing to sell the UK down the river as per orders from his Davos chums.
I'm no fan of Starmer but this is plainly silly. Could I politely suggest you step away from the internet for a while, it's clearly not doing you any good.
Ordinary people have had enough, that’s why so many signed.
You think the tories and reform are interested in 'ordinary' people? If you think Starmer is in the hands of cronies from Davos, wait til you see who Farage and the tories hang around with. If not Labour, who do you think is going to stand up for 'ordinary' people?
And what have they had enough of BTW? Inheritance tax on farms? Companies paying a bit more tax? Well-off pensioners not getting a handout to pay for their energy bills? Or are they more interested in the NHS, minimum wage and other things labour have done? They could have done a lot more yes, but getting rid of Labour is not the answer to the problem you have identified.
No, it won’t make a jot of difference, as you say, but I believe this politician to be very dangerous and only too willing to sell the UK down the river as per orders from his Davos chums
As opposed to the previous incumbents?
Fraud and error cost the taxpayer billions of pounds each year – but most of the potential loss goes undetected. Based on the Public Sector Fraud Authority’s (PSFA) methodology, we estimate that fraud and error cost the taxpayer £55 billion to £81 billion in 2023-24. Only a fraction of this is detected and known about – enabling investigation and recovery
Sauce:
https://www.nao.org.uk/overviews/the-impact-of-fraud-and-error-on-public-funds-2023-24/
The right wing are doing a bang up job of convincing some sections of society that black is white.
Ordinary people have had enough, that’s why so many signed.
I will bet money that this 'grass roots' petition started by some anonymous 'small business owner' will have right wing money behind it. You know what? Ordinary people have been mostly shafted by 14 years of Tory. I guess when the 'Farmer' (read Landowner) protest failed to move the dial, this is the next idea.
I will bet money that this ‘grass roots’ petition started by some anonymous ‘small business owner’ will have right wing money behind it.
It does seem to be a textbox example of astroturf.
I do like all the right wingers suddenly finding out the disadvantages of FPTP after benefiting from it for years.
I will bet money that this ‘grass roots’ petition started by some anonymous ‘small business owner’ will have right wing money behind it. You know what? Ordinary people
It's really choppy these days to call things out as 'right wing money' when your 'lefty' government courts big equity and wants to put the suffering back to work.
It’s really choppy these days to call things out as ‘right wing money’ when your ‘lefty’ government courts big equity and wants to put the suffering back to work.
Tbf, I don't think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.
I once started a petition for Walkers crisps to revert to the ‘proper’ crisp packet colours where salt & vinegar are blue and cheese & onion are green. Anything else is just a sick perversion, no doubt instigated by the opaquely funded ‘Big Crisp’ who probably have links to Keir Starmer. Probably..,
Anyway… they didn’t do it. There really is only one conclusion you can reach from this. We’re all clearly now living in a Stalinist dictatorship and Starmer is worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and …. erm… Stalin, all rolled into one
Tbf, I don’t think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.
The people reading the heil do. Which ultimately is the problem of trying to kiss their arses.
It wont work and will just piss off anyone who doesnt think Hitler is a bit of a leftie.
Tbf, I don’t think anyone is even pretending that we have a lefty government.
Still pretending or just changed their mind?
We’re all clearly now living in a Stalinist dictatorship and Starmer is worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and …. erm… Stalin, all rolled into one
When you have to screech at an extreme to defend the current shambles.
Indeed. Looking at the kind of people that the Starmer government is really pissing off, they’re clearly doing something right
Also… is anyone else feeling the irony of lots of right wing nutters starting an online petition?
Online petitions are a bit…. you know…
Over 1 Million signatures, brilliant!
"We've had enough!"
Scream the red-faced masses.
And what they really mean, like every other privileged group, is "we want more".
And there's always a pied piper to lead them on.
It's so pathetic, I don't know whether to laugh or despair!
Also… is anyone else feeling the irony of lots of right wing nutters starting an online petition?
Yup, and not least because the current prime minister has just written a piece for the Mail on Sunday having a go at one of their favourite target - benefit claimants. Ironic indeed.
Online petitions are a bit…. you know…
QUICK someone call Binners since we need a tedious meme image about those nasty lefties and Corbyn.
Oh wait a minute.
Never mind.
Monbiot can be a plonker, but much of this article is spot on.
QUICK someone call Binners since we need a tedious meme image about those nasty lefties and Corbyn.
Oh wait a minute.
Never mind.
Well, **** it. A few middle englanders aren't getting everything they want handed to them on a platter.
Might as well turf out the first Labour government in 14 years of austerity and give Farage a go.
It's what Keir Hardie would have wanted.
Christ. I agree with daz. Must be the second time this year. I feel feint.
I was going to come back with a witty riposte, but I'm agreeing with him for once as well. To be fair, I probably agree with him quite a lot of the time, but this time agree with how it was written.
Whilst I'm disappointed that Starmer has failed to deliver what he promised when he became leader, I'm not sure a Russian bot farmed petition will lead to a better alternative, given the choices available.
And to be fair, the mainly right wing press has focused on the bad policies rather than the good ones
Whilst I’m disappointed that Starmer has failed to deliver what he promised when he became leader, I’m not sure a Russian bot farmed petition will lead to a better alternative, given the choices available.
Admirable. But it won't stop the Russian bot farms trying.
Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions. It doesn't cost them anything.
Admirable. But it won’t stop the Russian bot farms trying.
I doubt they are involved here. Its the hard right rags and their friends who are busy trying to influence government policy. That Starmer has popped up on the heil promising to crack down on welfare "cheats" shows Rothermere and friends threats are being noticed.
Why would they stop? The UK electorate has shown itself to be unbelievably gullible on several occasions.
Are you not impressed with Labour's 174 seat majority?
Or do you see that as an example of gullibility?
Btw fenderextender your persistent "voters are thick" theory** might do down well on stw's political threads but let's hope that Labour politicians probe deeper and beyond simplistic explanations. Otherwise there really is the risk of a Tory-Reform coalition government in 2029.
** Obviously that theory only applies when they vote incorrectly, it instantly goes out the window when they vote correctly.
The big song and dance about fraudulent benefts claims doesn't sit right with me, I'm not saying it's an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it's peanuts, and over that, it's such a small percentage of overall government spending I doubt it would even be visible on a pie chart...
...Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it's just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.
…Surley Starmer has bigger fish to fry? Seems to me it’s just Mail/Tory-esque populist voter pandering.
It is. And with a large majority and 5 years to go why would he focus on it and even worse work with the Daily Mail unless there is some underlying belief in what he is doing and he priortises it.
I’m not saying it’s an issue that should be ignored, but compared to the overall welfare budget, it’s peanuts,
I don't think fraud is the main thrust of this, I think they are saying the welfare bill is too high full stop. Look at the announcements yesterday about stopping benefits for young people who won't engage. There is an ever increasing number of people leaving the Labour market through ill health at all ages, the question is as a country are we siker than we were (possible post covid), have people accelerated their I'll health through lifestyle or has the threshold for not being able to work fallen so people that would have worked 20 years ago with the same condition don't believe they are capable of working now.
Bottom line is the welfare bill is rising and in reality it will be all 3 factors at play, 14 years of Tory government certainly impacted the health of the nation. I think Labour realise the bill can't keep going up exponentially, whether they can effectively tackle it I don't know but expect lots more clamping down on benefit recipients type statements in the coming months.