Forum menu
I don’t see anything in that gutter advert that says anything about race.
Then you're not looking. It's quite clear what the scumbags who created this poster were trying to do, and who they were targeting. Open your eyes.
don’t see anything in that gutter advert that says anything about race. That’s the Prime Minister in the photo.
Yeah why is it a photo of Rishi Sunak?
I don't know what the hell the Labour Party is up but this is a very specific and personal attack on Sunak.
Sunak has been Prime Minister for less than 5 months, he has never been a Home Secretary. To suggest that he is personally responsible for the fact that the courts haven't send 4,5000 individuals to prison is without any merit.
If they wanted to exploit paedophilia crimes for political gain Labour could, and should, have said "the Tories don't" rather than "Rishi Sunak doesn't".
Why didn't they?
Labour being tories is bad enough ,they’ve gone the full ukip now.
In my kinder moments I wonder if Braverman and Sunak feel that they have to look especially tough on asylum/immigration because of their own skin colour.
Yeah why is it a photo of Rishi Sunak?
And a nice smiling picture at that. All they needed to do was add a caption saying ‘would you like some sweeties?’.
Ah, more of the gentler kinder principled politics promised by Sir Keir.
So now we have:
- actual grooming / child rape gangs being covered up by Labour run councils
- Labour MP’s who raised the issue facing death threats and harassment from other Labour Party members
- Labour MP Rosie Duffield receiving constant threats from Labour activists for speaking up on Womens Issues - and getting no support from Sir Keir who hasn’t even spoken to her in the last 3 years.
And Labour’s response - to slur the PM using race bating tweets.
This is divisive politics from the gutter - it’s completely unacceptable and Sir Keir is presiding over the whole lot. He needs to go.
I’m not going to look but I’m guessing the hate press are going to nail starmer for this.
So really the only person starmer has got a like from is Barry brexit in his flat roofed pub who not even going to vote.
Well done, ****.
I’m not going to look but I’m guessing the hate press are going to nail starmer for this.
They don't need to. No sensible person believes that Rishi Sunak thinks child abusers shouldn't go to prison. Starmer and the Labour Party have spectacularly shot themselves in the foot.
And obviously criticism is coming from far further than the Tories and the right-wing press.
but the subtle-but-obvious connection of Sunak’s colour with hole Asian grooming gang issue is utterly repugnant
Subtle to the point of non existent? Damned if I thought of Sunak's ethnicity when I saw the tweet.
More than 4,000 convicted child sex offenders have dodged jail and been left “free to roam the streets” under the Tories since 2010, damning research has revealed.
Around 2,000 adults convicted of sexual assault or sexual activity on children under 16 were let off with community sentences, while more than 2,400 were handed suspended sentences.
^^ That however does concern me.
The what now?! Sunak and Braverman have been pushing that the ethnicity of abusers and groomers matter. I don’t see anything in that gutter advert that says anything about race. That’s the Prime Minister in the photo.
I completely agree.
I completely agree.
And yet you post figures which date from 2010, thirteen years ago, Sunak has been prime minister for less than 5 months.
The poster very clearly suggests that he is personally responsible for the situation, ie he doesn't think that child abusers should go to prison, apparently.
Sunak wasn't even a member of parliament 13 years ago, why isn't the Labour Party accusing the Tories instead of specifically singling out Sunak?
You would be naive to believe that every poster the Labour produces isn't carefully considered.
The what now?! Sunak and Braverman have been pushing that the ethnicity of abusers and groomers matter. I don’t see anything in that gutter advert that says anything about race. That’s the Prime Minister in the photo.
Which positions has Sunak held since 2010 that could reasonably be considered to related to the release of sex offenders, other than PM?
It's got both the plausible deniability and the dog whistle boxes ticked, imo.
Chancellor. The legal system is a mess because of funding.
Sunak only has to answer for the last few months? Lucky him.
Chancellor. The legal system is mess because of funding.
Well, I'm glad the advert went out of it's way to correctly attribute the blame rather than rely on a stereotype.
It's obviously far more difficult to draw a line from the lack of funding to the breakdown of the justice system than it is to suggest Sunak's mates get their jollies raping white girls so I can see why they went with that approach.
RISHI SUNAK DOESN'T
Literally the wording in the advert.
Not even, Sunak thinks cutting budgets is more important than child molesters going to jail.
Rishi Sunak thinks child molesters shouldn't go to jail. Probably because he is brown.
Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder what exactly Starmer would have to do to finally get some people on here to question whether promoting these stereotypes by voting for parties using dog whistle racism to gather votes is worth it.
You are part of the problem, not the people who are refusing to vote for this shite.
suggest Sunak’s mates get their jollies raping white girls
What the ****?! You really get that from this ad? Disturbing.
Not even, Sunak thinks cutting budgets is more important than child molesters going to jail.
I think you give him too much credit, he's fully behind the increased sanctioning of people on benefits whilst also allowing the DWP to suppress documents detailing the deaths and suffering they cause. Nice chap, eh?
Probably because he is brown.
Why the dog whistling?
Seriously, I’m beginning to wonder what exactly Starmer would have to do to finally get some people on here to question whether promoting these stereotypes by voting for parties using dog whistle racism to gather votes is worth it.
Yeah Starmer, you raging paedo.
You are part of the problem, not the people who are refusing to vote for this shite.
Yeah? Nah.
The question which needs to be asked is why the poster doesn't say "The Tories don't" instead of "Rishi Sunak doesn't"
It is the political party in power that is responsible more than the leader. The Labour Party fully confirms this by declaring:
"Labour will lock up dangerous child abusers"
Not:
"Sir Keir Starmer will lock up dangerous child abusers"
The Labour Party is attempting to suggest that Rishi Sunak, personally as an individual, is soft on paedophiles and doesn't want them to go to prison.
Because of the sentences that the courts have passed in the last 13 years. Presumably no paedophile walked the streets before the Tories got into government?
The Labour Party is attempting to suggest that Rishi Sunak, personally as an individual, is soft on paedophiles
Erm...
What's your point, that the Tory Party is in the gutter therefore the Labour Party should also be?
If the two are indistinguishable what is the point of Labour?
What’s your point, that the Tory Party is in the gutter therefore the Labour Party should also be?
If the two are indistinguishable what is the point of Labour?
I simply can't get my head around the fact that you think that Labour is the same as the Tories is where I am at.
Over. One. Tweet.
How you compare that to the absolute tsunami of sh*te the Tories have unleashed upon the UK is beyond my comprehension frankly.
I simply can’t get my head around the fact that you think that Labour is the same as the Tories is where I am at.
Eh, it's not me who is claiming that Labour no worse than the Tories - it's you. You appear to be suggesting that Labour are simply behaving the same as the Tories.
I didn't make any comparison with the Tories, you decided to do that.
Ah, more of the gentler kinder principled politics promised by Sir Keir.
I think you might have confused Starmer with Jeremy Corbyn.
I didn’t make any comparison with the Tories, you decided to do that.
What, apart from you claiming they are indistinguishable?
If the two are indistinguishable what is the point of Labour?
What, apart from you claiming they are indistinguishable?
I thought that was the point you were trying to make. Why did you post that Tory poster then? Do tell.
And btw:
Over. One. Tweet.
It is apparently a poster, although I don't know where they will be using it.
How would you feel about "just one" racist Labour poster, would that be acceptable?
How low do you place the bar for Labour?
It’s really not racist. The Tories have been going for Starmer on this. The reciprocation is misjudged gutter politics IMHO, but if we’re going to scream “racist” whenever Labour aim at Sunak, it’s going to be an awful year or so ahead.
I thought that was the point you were trying to make.
You thought wrong I'm afraid, do you think Labour and the Tories are flip side of the same coin? I don't you see.
How would you feel about “just one” racist Labour poster, would that be acceptable?
It's racist in your opinion, not mine. The tweet links the PM to the failures of the Tory government. No more, no less. A government he's so kean to uphold the values of, he fought to lead it twice. Well done him.
If the Tories did this sort of thing to Labour (a la Jimmy Saville) Starmer supporters would be all over it - rightfully.
Stop with your double standards - it's hard to support this stupid kind of campaign. It leads the left to the right.
As the divide gets ever closer between Tories and Labour the lack of objectivity is collapsing.
Point is there are a million better ways to push against the Tories currently.
if we’re going to scream “racist” whenever Labour aim at Sunak
I agree, by comparison just suppose May or Truss was still prime minister and the same poster was presented would you automatically have implied that women are being implicitly targeted?
At the same time unless you want to be dragged into the same gutter as the Tories then you'd need to be above this kind of activity particularly when the subject matter is such as this. Whether there's a dog whistle element or not you've just got avoid any chance of being dragged down to that level.
Points lost by labour - at least in the safe comfy STW demographic. I wonder how it will land in the marginal red wall. I've said in the past that it's win by any means necessary but this doesn't sit comfortably.
Sorry Ernie, I'm coming across as needlessly argumentative so I'll back out of the discussion till I chill the hell out.
Again genuine apologies my friend.
Bollocks it's not racism.
Unless you're going to tell us Labour hq were completely unaware of the campaign against ****stani men in recent weeks?
Just because Braverman tee'd it up, it doesn't mean labour have got carte blanche to take the swing. If it were Sunak and Braverman who were going to suffer the backlash from this I would say crack on.
But of course, it's not going to be them who suffer. It's going to be everyone who could conceivably be mistaken for a ****stani.
They knew what they were doing. Just cause the Tories are going turbo-racist doesn't mean labour can gleefully join the party.
And everyone on here trying to defend it needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Racism wasn't the first thing that sprang to my mind, it was more how could they stoop so low generaly.
Either way it's really bad... My friend sent me that pic the other day and to be honest I didn't pay any attention to it at the time...
I just assumed it was some sort of meme/piss take that someone had knocked up until I saw comments about it on here. Turns out it wasn't! :-/
Sorry Ernie, I’m coming across as needlessly argumentative so I’ll back out of the discussion till I chill the hell out.
Again genuine apologies my friend.
Woa, I'm cool, but thanks anyway 👍 I'm actually on a ramble and just posting at stop intervals.
Btw :
It’s racist in your opinion, not mine
I wasn't referring to this particular poster but with regards to possible future posters. I'm not convinced of the intentions of the poster in question but I'm leaning towards probably not racist intention.
Definitely tasteless and a clear personal attack though, imo.
Racism wasn’t the first thing that sprang to my mind, it was more how could they stoop so low generaly.
Yes.
Whilst I doubt it was meant as racist I do think it could encourage it and it is the kind of shite you expect from the tories or ukip.
It does look increasingly like the claim Starmers plan is to be the tories but competent is accurate.
More.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1644339059215548416?t=iTbnHXBzDKXU8xwu4uqZjw&s=19
Grown ups are in charge of Labour.
Starmer was head of CPS 2008-2013.
Sunak has been in charge for 6 months.
Can't wait for the next part of the campaign.
I personally didn’t look at it and think that there was any racial connection going on, it just looks like a clumsy attempt to slur Sunak personally.
I’m more concerned that Labour are indulging in the culture war bollocks as it’s clearly a battleground that the Tories are comfortable on and quite frankly, there are real, actual issues to be addressed.
I suppose Labour’s absolute lack of direction and policy stops them from addressing them.
Unless you’re going to tell us Labour hq were completely unaware of the campaign against ****stani men in recent weeks?
Yup. At a time when one of the major tropes being peddled by the far right is that of Asian grooming gangs trying to rape our kids, the labour party sees fit to create a poster with a picture of the most prominent Asian man in the country, next to a slogan saying he's not interested in locking up paedophiles. They may have enough plausible deniability to claim the intent wasn't racist (which I don't believe), but it's still massively racist whether they intended it or not. I simply don't believe that this didn't occur to them, which makes it intentional.
Sunak has been in charge for 6 months.
Sunak is the Conservative PM.
Are we really going to support the “he’s the new kid, he can’t be held accountable for what his government did before he became default leader”?!? Six months my arse. He’s been at the treasury, he’s been voting through government legislation.
He is certainly not personally responsible for what happened 13 years ago. Why not attack/criticise the Tories instead of singling out Rishi Sunak?
What was Keir Starmer doing 13 years ago?
Giving prosecution guidance?
Why not attack/criticise the Tories instead of singling out Rishi Sunak
Because he is now the leader of their party.
The Conservative Prime Minister.
We are not going to have a “don’t mention the leader” local election, just because the poor soul is “new to the job”. And it’s probably going to be even more leader focused come the general election. I happen to think it’s the wrong approach for Labour, for many reasons (Sunak might be replaced, their own leader is a dull as dishwater, it all feels a bit American shock attack politics, feels downright grubby, etc) but trying to stick Conservative government record to their leader, in one of the few policy areas he currently has the lead with voters and which he has been campaigning hard on recently… you can see their thinking.
But it's the courts who decide whether a child abuser goes to prison, not the prime minister.
Surely as a renowned barrister the Labour leader knows that?
Have to say I’m quite ****ed off with these posters/ads/whatever they are. Even if there was debate over whether it’s dog-whistle shite or not, I’d prefer the Labour Party to call the electorate’s attention to how inequality, poverty, shitty employment rights and a plethora of other injustices lead to a lack of opportunity for people to lead fulfilled lives and how that in turn leads to crime. For ****s sake, it’s not that hard. Trying to out-Tory the Tories on crime and punishment is just a shitty race to the bottom.
Have to say I’m quite **** off with these posters/ads/whatever they are
It is amazing anyone is even semi defending them.
About the one thing in their favour is it is amusing seeing tories whining about labour joining in their gutter politics but then again its not exactly news they are hypocrites and so not worth it.
Thanks for replying Ernie and glad my rant caused no offence.
I know it wasn't much of a rant by stw standards but it was in my mind and that doesn't please me at all.
It seems Labour has nothing to offer beyond being as vile as the Tories. What a truly depressing state of affairs.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1644339059215548416
So now this?
When is Labour going to promise to bring back hanging? Now out of the EU there is nothing to stop the UK reintroducing hanging.
And the birch. Surely it's time to get tough on criminals and reintroduce flogging?
I put that a few posts up Ernie.
But yeah they're digging themselves in 'cos they know a back track would look even worse.
Be interesting to see how the Tories respond.
I put that a few posts up Ernie.
Ah so you did, apologies. The limitations of trying to vaguely follow a thread whilst enjoying a bank holiday countryside ramble!
Be interesting to see how the Tories respond.
I have just had a horrible thought..... they might attempt to take the moral high ground!
Well they might as well make up offences which Labour would get tough on, apparently the offence of “possession of a firearm with intent to harm” does not exist, it is a made up offence.
Obviously a small detail which the former Director of Public Prosecution considered unimportant.
Ah so you did, apologies. The limitations of trying to vaguely follow a thread whilst enjoying a bank holiday countryside ramble
Ramble wins every time.
That^^ is pretty good imo. Especially this bit:
It was only a year or so ago that Boris Johnson was shamefully and bizarrely attempting to counter Partygate stories by telling the House of Commons that Starmer had failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions, a gambit that also drew cross-spectrum political condemnation and at least one angry mob towards Starmer. At the time, the Labour leader drew himself up to his full height and said that he had never before been called a “paedophile protector”. It was “a deliberate slur without any basis in fact,” Starmer told the Times. “The PM knew exactly what he was doing … It’s not about me, it’s about the way we conduct our politics. I don’t want to see us go down the route that this potentially takes us down.”
But the rest of it is also very good.
I'd like to think that the Labour Party is bigger than Kier, and notwithstanding it's recent centralising efforts, a party that has someone like Jess Phillips in it automatically wins in a game of Top Trumps against a party that has someone like Bill Cash in it.
But this is a low blow - unbecoming of anyone who wishes to be taken seriously. The racist aspects of it weren't immediately apparent to me, but once pointed out are difficult to ignore.
Shameful really.
This Jess Phillips
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1643988046659059715?t=ag56lacKwjnih9_TlDOF4w&s=19
The one that was keen on stabbing Corbyn in the front.
That^^ is pretty good imo.
Marina Hyde stating the SKS isn't the messiah he is a very naughty boy, that's going to be conflicting for binners.
He is certainly not personally responsible for what happened 13 years ago. Why not attack/criticise the Tories instead of singling out Rishi Sunak?
Because to the less clear thinking voters they have now seen it and a link has been made. More links made over the next year and it all helps towards peoples doubts about voting for Sunak's tory party. That is how to works (unless it doesn't because they continue to fall for tory bullshit)
The advert is an utter disgrace. false claim, clearly racist.
'Diane Abbott MP
@HackneyAbbott
21h
Sunak is responsible for lots of things. But sentencing is the responsibility of the judiciary. You would think a former DPP would know that. Horrible ad.'
Well put. That ad does support Forde's claim that there is a hierarchy of racism in the LP. The ethnic minority vote is a big one to lose, they're playing a risky game.
2 out of 3 ain't bad. I don't think the racism is clear, I also can't absolutely claim there isn't an element of dogwhistle in it (to appeal to certain types of floating voter, maybe). Which is why it shouldn't have been done - to avoid any doubts.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are 'clearly racist' and attacking the leader of the party, whether he's been leader for long or not, has to be accepted. GE's are won by leaders as much as local candidates, rightly or wrongly.
Which leads to 'surely someone in central office must have realised' and 'then why let it go out' - leading me to either the above or massive incompetence, neither of which is a good attribute for a party hoping to form the next Gov.
Very poor.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are ‘clearly racist’ and attacking the leader of the party,
They are very obviously attacking the leader of the Tory Party. The first one claims that Rishi Sunak doesn't support jailing of those found guilty of “possession of a firearm with intent to harm", and the second one accuses Sunak of being soft on cereal perverts.
bad grammar, sorry. Should have been a comma after the and, or two wholly different sentences.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are ‘clearly racist’, and attacking the leader of the party whether he’s been leader for long or not, has to be accepted.
Sunak is a legit target*, he can't be untouchable either because he's not been in post long or because of the colour of his skin.
Sorry again, on rereading your interpretation is the more likely one which was not the intent.
* political sense not physical, hopefully that's clear.
Marina Hyde stating the SKS isn’t the messiah he is a very naughty boy, that’s going to be conflicting for binners
Lol - that's because Centrists are gradually getting spat out of Starmer world.
That's a natural process of him moving further right than even they expect. Been on the cards since his made-up pledges got dropped.
How far right everyone is willing to move with him is an interesting test.
The acid test will be whether liberal freedom fighters like Dunt or Freedland criticise him.
They've already lost Shelagh Fogerty on LBC. PMSL.
Sunak is a legit target*
But only for things which he is actually responsible for. Whatever you want to accuse Sunak of he isn't personally responsible for the sentences past by the courts for the last 13 years.
If you desperately want to find a party leader with some sort of responsibility for the sentences passed by the courts then your best bet would be Keir Starmer. In 2010 he sat on the Sentencing Council which decided such matters. In contrast Sunak was working as a hedge fund manager at the time.
If you desperately want to find a party leader with some sort of responsibility for the sentences passed by the courts then your best bet would be Keir Starmer. In 2010 he sat on the Sentencing Council which decided such matters. In contrast Sunak was working as a hedge fund manager at the time.
I'm fully expecting a poster from the Tories alluding to this
Labour will now deserve all they get.
@ernielynch 'Working' as a hedge fund manager is a bit of a stretch. 🙂
I disagree there, as leader of the party you inherit the whole thing, not just the bits you did
seems like a bad misstep to me.
however the idea that sunak can't be accountable when he is at the head of a tory government that has been in power for what feels like several lifetimes is laughable.
I don’t have a problem with attacking sunak and think labour are often far too nice. But doing so in a way that is racist and pumps up far right culture war tropes is beyond the pale.
I disagree there, as leader of the party you inherit the whole thing, not just the bits you did
Dunno about that, not specific enough for me.
There are clearly different levels of responsibility over time in each party for different individuals.
Sunak doesn't have a time machine to put things right now that happened in the past. I'm not saying going forward he's not the most awful type of Tory.
But if Starmer wins - the same people will be shouting he needs time to correct the wrongs too. (Not that he will in my opinion.)
however the idea that sunak can’t be accountable when he is at the head of a tory government that has been in power for what feels like several lifetimes is laughable.
Of course Rishi Sunak should be held accountable if, as the Labour poster claims, he doesn't think that nonces should go to jail.
But who actually believes the Labour poster?
Hey, at least it's united everyone on this thread - which is truly amazing.
Marina Hyde makes all the points above and a few more on the supposed dark magic of attack ads.
Aside from high horses can you actually publish something that isn't true?
How serious is this? Are we looking at the end of starmer? ( Fingers crossed)
It's the quid pro quo that comes when a change in leadership can be arranged by the party faithful and handed to the electorate without us having any say in the matter.
It's a Tory government shitshow, he's the leader of the government, therefore it's now his shitshow.
It’s a Tory government shitshow, he’s the leader of the government, therefore it’s now his shitshow.
What is a Tory government shitshow, that nounces don't go to prison? The Labour poster makes a very specific allegation - that Rishi Sunak does not believe that adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should go to prison.
If this is true it goes well beyond a Tory government shitshow.
I don’t have a problem with attacking sunak and think labour are often far too nice. But doing so in a way that is racist and pumps up far right culture war tropes is beyond the pale.
this
No, I've already said that these posters, especially the paedophile gangs ones are very poor and should not have been done. Twice in fact.
I'm addressing other's points about different levels of responsibility over different individuals and not having a time machine. He's now the leader so he either has to own it, or fix it. You can't just say it was the other boys that did it, when you've specifically asked to take charge. He gets some grace to do it, sure, and he may not be responsible for the decisions that put them where they are now, but as PM, a role he campaigned for twice, he is accountable.
And FWIW...IDK if Starmer designed the campaign, approved it, or even was aware. But he is leader of the LP and therefore accountable for them and the fall out.
How he addresses that in the shadow cabinet room or at party headquarters is up to him. Right now it's his name that's alongside them.
No, I’ve already said that these posters, especially the paedophile gangs ones are very poor and should not have been done. Twice in fact.
I’m addressing other’s points about different levels of responsibility over different individuals and not having a time machine.
Nah, the reference to him not having a time machine were very specific to that Labour poster, and the fact that it referred to court sentences going back 13 years.
As prime minister Rishi Sunak is responsible for a lot of things and should most definitely be held accountable. But the allegations made in that deplorable Labour poster are drivel.
IDK if Starmer designed the campaign, approved it, or even was aware.
Are you serious?
Absolutely. I don't know his involvement in it - do you?
Matters not, he's the leader of the LP and hence he's still accountable. If his team are putting crap like that out without him knowing he needs to look at his delegated authority matrix - both what and to whom.
If his team are putting crap like that out without him knowing
If you believe they would release highly controversial stuff like that without first clearing it with the leader you are hopessly deluding yourself.