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"picky picky doing thier best to irritate and provoke". Another one for my list of "who's likely to" up there.
Another one: "keep going all night to have the last word".
Over and out. 🙂
So, that Keir Starmer eh!?
Another one: “keep going all night to have the last word”.
Self awareness isn't a strength of yours, is it?
Tell you what, seeing as a) you're incapable of doing what you say and b) will relentlessly construct a false narrative to play the victim when you're caught out, I'll be the bigger person and leave you to have the last word. Ta ta!
I dip in and out of this thread. Never really contribute, but having just seen the past couple of pages, it's pretty pathetic, this goading and point-scoring between a few regulars.
So what I am doing in this thread?
Calling everyone a racist?
Not quite. Apparently to tell us Kier Starmer is worse than the leader of the French far-right National Rally Party Marine Le Pen, who is widely considered to be a bigot and a racist.
She is goody two shoes in comparison to Starmer, we are told.
Is it really 2 years to the next G.E? FML
Yep it is that long. 2 years too long and 2 years for the tories to try and sort themselves out a bit, people to forget what a bunch of ****ers they are, be lied to etc,. etc,.
If Starmer wins it won't be by anything like the amount the current polls are suggesting.
I am not worried about the torries sorting themselves out, they are clearly showing that they have nothing to offer other than more austerity. I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.
Yup, it’s terrifying.
One you can say about the Conservatives is that they are the masters of spin & PR. Coupled with an absolute lack of shame they have proven time and time again that they know how to win an election. This should be causing any opposition to worry. If we’ve learnt anything over the past few months, 2 year is a long time in politics and despite the last 12 years they could still pull it off & win again.
I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.
That and how much of the remaining assets they can sell off cheap to mates/create ruinous long term contracts.
One you can say about the Conservatives is that they are the masters of spin & PR.
Yes and no. It only works so long as they are dancing to the right wing press moguls desires. Just see how quickly Cameron came unstuck when he thought he was the PR master of his legend (as opposed to a couple of years working for a friend of his mums as a break from politics) and so went for the brexit referendum.
I dip in and out of this thread. Never really contribute
You could have just left it that way. Another 'I'm too sexy for this thread' post. 🙄
Or you know, you could just post what you think about the subject. You might raise the tone from Ed's everyone but me is a racist obsession.
Prime Ministers don't tend to become more popular after two years in office. Rishi Sunak is currently enjoying his honeymoon period with voters.
When Sunak became leader Tory support was in the low twenties, with a cunning mini budget and the perceived impression of post-Johnson/Truss competence, he has managed to lift Tory support into the high twenties.
Labour support has gone from approx 50-55% when Truss was PM to approx 45-48% under Sunak.
That is absolutely catastrophic for the Tories but there is absolutely nothing they can do about the situation because every PM until the next general is hamstrung by the fact that they are Tory.
They can't get a magic wand out and simply magic away the fact that they have been in power 12 years and that the economy and the country is in crisis.
The difference that 2 years will make will be that they will have been in government for 14-15 years and the country will be in a worse crisis than it is right now.
A simple fact that is now widely accepted by Tory MPs :
I am worried about the damage 2 more years of turbocharged austerity is going to have on so many lives.
Two more years? I wasn't aware they were doing turbocharged austerity yet, let alone another two years of it. All the cuts are scheduled to occur in two years time. If Starmer and Reeves don't change their tune it'll be labour austerity you have to worry about, not the tories.
Prime Ministers don’t tend to become more popular after two years in office.
thatcher
"tend"
Edit: Thatcher was actually less popular two years into her premiership
thatcher
Thatcher was enormously unpopular until the Argies bailed her out with their ill-advised invasion. The UK had just endured the most crushing recession in history which was a deliberate result of Thatchers scorched earth economic policy. If not for the falklands, and the SDP she'd have lost the 83 election.
Yes I think a patriotic war might save Rishi Sunak's premiership.
Perhaps he can give the Spanish a green light to invade Gibraltar?
Thatcher was enormously unpopular until
events. They do happen
Yes they do. But Thatcher is not an example of a PM who got more popular in her first two years after being elected. The opposite was true.
Thatcher was enormously unpopular until the Argies bailed her out with their ill-advised invasion
Which was in large part due to her governments incompetence when cutting back on defence. They were warned it was likely to be seen as a green light but ignored it in order to save a few quid. Doubly lucky the Argies didnt wait another year or so at which point a bunch of really useful assets would have been sold off/scrapped.
She also had the advantage of all that North Sea oil and gas to use up plus giving away a bunch of housing cheap.
Since she has burned through those assets though harder for Sunak to try.
Thatcher was perhaps the luckiest PM, with Blair not far behind. Sunak is not looking very lucky at all. Starmer on the other hand looks like he could be the luckiest opposition leader in history.
Something to look forward to - two more years of pointless posts from the usual suspects until the next election.
Deep joy.
PM who got more popular in her first two years
PMs sometimes get more popular and a few months either way really isn't the issue.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/political-monitor-satisfaction-ratings-1977-1987
We don't know what's going to happen over the next two years. With Russia most obviously.
With Russia most obviously.
Wildly off-topic but I reckon we'll see a negotiated settlement once the Germans have had enough of blackouts and recession. In the probably unlikely event that happens, energy prices will take time to return to normal, if at all, and even if they do consumer prices will lag far behind. So even if Ukraine is resolved in the next two years it won't do much to help Sunak.
two more years of pointless posts from the usual suspects until the next election.
And another one. 🙄 #imtoosexyforthisthread
Wildly off-topic but I reckon we’ll see a negotiated settlement…
Should we file that with all your other frighteningly accurate predictions on the Ukraine thread?
Amazing. One one side we have people who post to tell us how the thread isn't good enough for them, on the other we have others who keep a log of what some of us post so they can use it in future to claim imaginary brownie points. 🤷♂️
Is this sort of obsessive introspection common on other internet forums?
Seems we also have people who think what they say is important enough to be logged. Ffs, get over yourself. I just tend to recall the more ridiculous statements people make. Perhaps that’s why your stuff stood out. I dunno…
On a vague attempt to keep this on track. Sounds like Starmer utterly roasted Sunak at PMQs today and he is beginning to get some themes to stick.
Perhaps that’s why your stuff stood out.
Or maybe it's because you only ever post on these threads to have a go at me for some bizarre reason? It's literally your only contribution. Bit weird having an internet stalker.
Sounds like Starmer utterly roasted Sunak at PMQs today and he is beginning to get some themes to stick.
Sunak’s only tactic now seems to be use the line “union paymasters”… I think he needs to be careful drawing attention to how the two big parties are funded.
Oh, there was a bit of the classic “Labour wanted to close the schools”… ignoring that his government “closed” the schools, and kept most pupils at home for far longer due to acting late during a public health crisis. Oh, worth noting that the fee paying schools at the heart of this VAT rebate issue were “closed” sooner with pupils at home in the way and at the time Labour were calling for that measure in state schools.
I think he needs to be careful drawing attention to how the two big parties are funded.
It is a somewhat risky area especially given the return on investment some tory funders get. Its a shame Starmer isnt counterattacking but then Labour funding has shifted somewhat.
PMQs - two suits just slogging it out with nothing to say of any consequence.
That's how it sounded to me.
Sunak is woefully incomplete. Like a really unconvincing actor.
The most invisible PM ever.
The VAT thing really does want sorting out - as a supplier to a local independent school I pay their vat on my work because they get an exemption not to pay it. I'm flat rate and can't claim it back.
Terrible system.
Too many Teslas in the car park the days. Bit of VAT won't scare them off.
two suits just slogging it out
Don’t they have to wear collar and tie? Do they have a choice not to wear a suit? Can any man take to the dispatch box in a T-shirt and jeans?
Terrible system.
Ageed. Removing it is a Labour policy that Sunak didn’t even attempt to counter today. Just babbled on about something else. The current position is indefensible really.
Don’t they have to wear collar and tie? Do they have a choice not to wear a suit? Can any man take to the dispatch box in a T-shirt and jeans?
Not the literal wearing of a suit but when we use the term suit to mean by the book/establishment type/administrator etc.
we use the term suit to mean by the book/establishment type/administrator etc.
... whereas we want our PMs to be generally wild and crazy? Tried that with the last couple
What this thread needs is a film of Angela Rayner doing a DJ set playing cheesy 90’s house music
https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1598966575566036992?s=46&t=3452oQkvnkazxaLmR7rogA
You’ve got to love her! 😃
Did Manchester win?
[ oh, if you didn’t know, this was a tag team DJ battle between Manchester and Liverpool, raising money for the Beds for Christmas effort … I only know about it because of Rowetta doing her bit promoting it like hell on Twitter … I’ve donated … get on it ]
^ Jesus, the shit being posted on Twitter about her attending a CHARITY event! Ffs!
The abuse aimed at Angela Rayner is just pure out-and-out snobbery and says an awful lot more about the people dishing it out than it does about her
Snobbery for sure mixed in with misogyny and just plain nastiness.
One guy calling her a "slapper" for daring the dance at a charity event.
What a "man".
whereas we want our PMs to be generally wild and crazy? Tried that with the last couple
It doesn't have to swing to the extreme you know someone with a little conviction and doesnt mislead might be the direction we're looking for.
The abuse aimed at Angela Rayner is just pure out-and-out snobbery and says an awful lot more about the people dishing it out than it does about her
You've built a STW career out of attacking certain politicians on a personal level many times.
A STW career?
Can I put that on my CV? 😂
You can but I can't see it giving you much of an advantage in any job application unless the job title is "Posting Monty Python images on a forum". That reminds me, haven't seen any for a while?
You can but I can’t see it giving you much of an advantage in any job application
Not even when Richard Littlejohn decides to retire?
"Here is some of my finest STW work"
I suspect a large part of the abuse Raynor gets is due to her ability to get under the skin of tories. However to me she is another English politician not understanding scotland and making pronouncements about scotland that she has no idea how offensive they are. she is a large part of the "two cheeks of the same arse" issue with labour north of the border
she has no idea how offensive they are.
As someone who isn't easily offended I have no idea either. How offensive are they?
Well in absolute terms not much but what she says is simply incorrect and to claim that its because Scotland returns SNP mps we have a UK tory government is just wrong put that along with "never speak to the SNP" and it says that Scotlands wishes are irrelevant and does nothing to bridge the divide. This sort of thing will not attract voters north of the border to Labour indeed will drive them further away
put that along with “never speak to the SNP” and it says that Scotlands wishes are irrelevant and does nothing to bridge the divide.
TJ has it ever occured to you that much like the EU were indifferent to the wishes of the UK govt that the UK might be somewhat indifferent to what the scots want for the very same reasons? It's possibly another example of Scottish independence mirroring brexit.
But they weren’t. The UK gov shaped EU policy.
Anyway, this thread…
Kelvin are you denying that the EU saw the UK as troublemakers? Yes the UK had influence but it was a mostly negative influence and I doubt the rest of the EU were too bothered when we decided to flounce. As far as Scotland goes I reckon that whatever goodwill is left in the UK towards the scots could quickly disappear on both sides of the political spectrum as a result of their incessant whining about independence and brexit. The scots have more power and self-determination than any other region or country in the UK, and the scottish people benefit greatly from that with very little complaint from english people who don't have the benefits they have. It would be a tragedy if that situation changes and the two countries became more divided and suspicious of the other as that sort of thing isn't going to end in a good place.
It’s possibly another example of Scottish independence mirroring brexit.
Oh FFS - the two are for diametrically opposite reasons!
Jeepers man thats the attitude that pushes scotland away
Scotland goes I reckon that whatever goodwill is left in the UK towards the scots could quickly disappear on both sides of the political spectrum as a result of their incessant whining about independence and brexit.
Aye, Labour’s true colours revealed - the brand of unionism perpetrated on Scotland and Ireland by men in bowler hats that bang drums, play flutes and light bonfires on the 17th July.
as a result of their incessant whining
Jeepers man
I suspect he’s just trolling you now giving you the “argument” you paid for.
Ignore Enjoy.
Personally i'm enjoying Rayner growing into politics, a couple of years ago tories found it too easy to get her to walk into an argument or a statement that could then have them turning round acting the victim, or making her the story, she's learning to combat that in parliament and out of it.
So Starmer this morning setting out how he's going to transfer power to communities and regions (including Scotland) and all the press and twitterati want to talk about is why he's not handing it back to the EU. 🤷♂️
why he’s not handing it back to the EU
I know right? When the EU already has it!
When the EU already has it!
Has what?
The proposals include allowing Scotland to sign new treaties with the EU in devolved policy areas.
Has what?
power
kelvin
Full MemberSunak’s only tactic now seems to be use the line “union paymasters”… I think he needs to be careful drawing attention to how the two big parties are funded.
Yep. Though, it worked against Miliband- too scared to say "yeah we get money from union members, normal working british people- who do you get your money from you bought-and-paid-for little shit?"
dazh
Full MemberTJ has it ever occured to you that much like the EU were indifferent to the wishes of the UK govt that the UK might be somewhat indifferent to what the scots want for the very same reasons?
That doesn't make any sense. Scotland used to deliver Labour a nice pile of votes and seats, due largely to party incompetence north and south of the border now they don't. Scottish Labour's only goal is to convince people to vote Tory instead of SNP, and Westminster Labour just hasn't a clue but still insists on having strong opinions about it. It's a really sad irony that the only time the national party has actually sat back and let the scottish party deal with Scotland, was at the exact point the scottish party hit rock bottom. Any time they have halfway competent leadership, westminster wants to tell them what to do.
The 13 scottish tory MPs basically made it possible for Theresa May to form a government. That could have been avoided
What power?
The proposals included allowing Scotland to sign new treaties with the EU in devolved policy areas.
Yup. That's a good thing no? I'm sure TJ will be supportive..
What power?
dunno if that was in response to me but yeah let's do brexit. The EU has lost no power as a result of brexit. We have. I mean maybe we'll have more at some point in the future over trade deals but they've not happened yet. The power transfer has de facto been from us to EU. I can't see there being any more to "hand back to EU"
Insignificant. Devolved policy areas are not where we need this power. I cannot think of a devolved area where any supranational treaties are useful in any way. anyone think of one? Erasmus maybe? Trade is not devolved, energy is not devolved. Immigration is not devolved.
As to Labour in Scotland. the SNP look like a government running out of steam. Good pickings for labour there in terms of westminster seats if they would allow the scottish branch to actually produce decent policies. Although I did see a new type of attack line from Sarwar and co recently. Scots government have the "scottish child payment" labour said to put it up more. Thats the first time I have seen them using the line which I am sure would work well - " thats a decent policy but does not go far enough" rather than "SNP baaaaaaad"Labour instead are fighting with the tories over the unionist vote. They could take votes of the SNP instead but not while they carry on as they are.
If labour could actually bring themselves to say that the SNP can do good things they would also have some better attack lines to use against the tories in Westminster. In Scotland the nurses have been offered 5-11% depending on grade. If Scotland can do that why can't england? labour should be using that but will not as it means admitting the Scottish government can get things right
Lowest grade of nurses in Scotland are going to end up £800 a year better off than in England
The power transfer has de facto been from us to EU.
Interesting comment. So presumably you think the power we lost over EU policy (and the power the EU gained) is greater than the power the UK govt has over it's own population and economy? I think by any measure that's quite a stretch. Even if true I doubt most people in the UK would rather have power over EU countries than their own.
How are you quantifying this power by the way? Normally it's defined as the ability of a govt to make laws and set govt policy in a country (see Scotland for a good example). In England the UK govt has almost (it's not 100% because we are still bound by various international treaties like NATO membership etc) 100% power to do that. In the EU they were one of 28 nations. So is 1/28th power over the EU greater or less than 100% power over England (I'm not saying the UK due to devolution complicating it)?
So is 1/28th power over the EU greater or less than 100% power over England
"please compare these two made up scenarios that have never been true, and never will be"
johnx2 Free Member
What power?
dunno if that was in response to me but yeah let’s do brexit. The EU has lost no power as a result of brexit...
Sorry I thought someone was trying to set up a Labyrinth reference, but as you didn't answer with "the power of Voodoo" that obviously wasn't the case.
Sorry I thought someone was trying to set up a Labyrinth reference, but as you didn’t answer with “the power of Voodoo” that obviously wasn’t the case.
went over my head, but one of the less balls postings on the thread 🙂
I doubt most people in the UK would rather have power over EU countries than their own.
I'd rather our own was an EU country, obv as would most others now. But not going to happen for a damaging while.
Either way, UK has lost power in the world as well as in relation to EU countries.
How are you quantifying this power by the way? Normally it’s defined as the ability of a govt to make laws and set govt policy in a country
Plenty of states where government has failed can go on making laws and setting policy on paper. Power is defined by being able to achieve your desired outcomes (improved health, reduced inequalities, whatever), not just to proclaim and legislate for these.
Within our borders we see how little actual power our government has being beholden to world events. If Trump has another go round my word we'll be on our lonely o.
And then there's NI where the unionists seem to think they've not gained a right lot.
Starmer has lost my vote. It'll have to be Libdems or just not bother, I'm afraid.
Fair enough saying "we will not do this and we will not do that" is all very well, but lying to justify it? No, sorry, I'm out.
He's destroyed any credibility he may have had by saying rejoining the single market would not benefit the UK economically. It would. He knows it and anyone with any sense knows it.
If you are willing to tell porkies about the single biggest political issue of the last decade then what else?
You missed out the words “now” and “at this stage”. If you want the UK to join the SM this decade, you are right out of luck. No vote will give you that. The choices are between divergence or alignment. For the sake of NI and all our futures I’d choose the later.
Yep. Though, it worked against Miliband- too scared to say “yeah we get money from union members, normal working british people- who do you get your money from you bought-and-paid-for little shit?”
Please one day somebody say this!
No vote will give you that.
No point in voting, then. You've sort of confirmed it for me.
If Starmer pulls off the 2016/19 trick of treating voters with disdain then good luck to him, but I'm not voting for someone who debases himself by making stupid comments like I mentioned above.
🤷♂️
The UK needs a decade of convergence and agreeing (and honouring) closer agreements with the EU before talk of being “in” the single market means anything. Any politician selling you SM or CU for whole UK as a quick and easy win is lying to you. There is a reason that stopping the UK leaving the EU was important… the damage is going to take decades to repair. The longer the current Tories stay in power, pushing divergence, the worse things are going to get before the ship starts to do it’s very slow change of course.
No point in voting, then. You’ve sort of confirmed it for me.
If Starmer pulls off the 2016/19 trick of treating voters with disdain then good luck to him, but I’m not voting for someone who debases himself by making stupid comments like I mentioned above.
^^
The price of righteousness and indulging in pique is more tory government.
Starmer has lost my vote. It’ll have to be Libdems or just not bother, I’m afraid.
By not voting against the tories you're voting for them. It's as simple as that.
He'll dig a bigger hole the longer he pretends to certain demographics that their choice in 2016 was not colossally stupid.