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Thanks for your opinion. Thank you for making the effort to conceptualise and post it. Your contribution has been noted.
You're most welcome, always glad to help.
From your link Nickc it appears it is counting private
Total current healthcare expenditure in the UK in 2020 was £257.6 billion, equating to £3,840 per person.
"
Government-financed healthcare expenditure was £213.4 billion in 2020, growing by 14.9% in real terms and making up around 83% of total healthcare spending
."
Those numbers are clearly carefully selected.
Its also the first pandemic year. Claiming a 15% increase in govvernment healthcare funding. I assume that is including all the money wastes on test and trace. there is no way on earth there was a 15% increase in money actually spent on healthcare. No government minister tried to claim an increase of that amount
You’re most welcome, always glad to help.
You can't beat the ol' banter on the political threads.
Its also the first pandemic year. Claiming a 15% increase in govvernment healthcare funding.
Quite possibly also includes the donation to the private hospital chains in case they were needed but then didnt really use them.
Meant they came out of the pandemic in rather good shape.
A dentist mate was telling me this morning that the unit rates the government pays for NHS treatment hasn't increased since 2006 and he has a queue of 200 wanting to go on his NHS list. He said demand is falling off and my (private) dentist has been emailing if anyone wants to come in for hygiene work. This is privatisation by stealth and people being unable to afford treatment or get NHS work done. The FT reported on 4.11 that access to healthcare in the UK is the worst in Europe.
We really are being done over by a government which sees the many as the enemy. We can afford £37bn to Serco and £billions of arms but not the health service? I'm delighted strikes are being planned but there won't be a squeak of support out of Starmer or the pet shop boy.
Incidentally, the Virgin Healthcare £70 a bottle came from my son's research into making 'efficiencies' in his hospital and ofcourse it's the private bits which are the least efficient and most costly. Plus the claim that doctors don't know what's going on in hospitals coming from someone who struggles with basic SPAG is both insulting and laughable.
or the pet shop boy
Is this some "fun" reference to an MPs sexuality? Is it relevant? Dentistry is in a mess around here (West Yorkshire), so was nodding along in agreement with the rest of your post, but that bit seemed unnecessary.
Er, no, he attacked a pet shop for fun.
Have you been getting lost on the wrong bits of the internet?
Nah, he didn't deny it but said charges were dropped because of a lack of evidence. This sort of nonsense goes on all the time in Oxford and Cambridge. How do you think ther Bullingdon club never got prosecuted for anything? I witnessed a brutal act in the Pickerel opposite Magdalene college in the name of 'Jolly Japes' and asked the manager why he did nothing to stop it. The answer came, 'the college owns the pub.'
It’s the made up details that give extra credence to the made up nonsense.
Then you've nothing to worry about. Good night.
Well if the Shadow Health Secretary feels able to have a bit of a laugh and "joke" about people having dementia, then I'm sure that he can handle a bit of banter concerning his rumoured pet shop related exploits.
Yey! We're back to Jeremy Corbyn! It's been a while. Yeah, a dick thing to say off hand in the commons. He did apologise though. Now, what other made up nonsense can we smear Streeting with? Which bit of the internet is best for picking up this kind of fun stuff? Perhaps some links in future Bill please?
He did apologise though.
Ah, I see, so that makes a bit of banter from the Shadow Health Secretary with regards to people having dementia not that serious then
Perhaps you feel that Bill should also apologise for his banter concerning the pet shop boy? Everything would be okay then.
Btw why mention Jeremy Corbyn - is he also living rent-free inside your head?
not that serious then
I never said that.
Perhaps you feel that Bill should also apologise for his banter concerning the pet shop boy?
I thought you'd be one of the people wanting facts, sources etc.
why mention Jeremy Corbyn
Oh, FFS.
Now, what other made up nonsense can we smear Streeting with?
Erm, he actually said Corbyn is senile. It’s recorded. It’s not made up. You can ignore facts to suit your own narrative, but then you’re just ignorant of facts.
Streeting should be sacked for such comments. End of.
Erm, he actually said Corbyn is senile.
Yes, he said that. I posted a link to a source confirming it and the context around it. It's a fact. And a dick thing to say, even off hand. By "nonsense" I was referring to the pet shop nonsense. And there we go... a load of made up nonsense takes over the thread... that's the thing with this stuff, call it out and you just amplify it and it just gets stronger. I should have ignored it.
Can you confirm it’s made up?
Sounds like the kind of thing Streeting would do tbh. After all, he thinks it’s ok to physically abuse children.
Can you confirm it’s made up?
I don't even know the source of it.
So you can’t then? Ok.
So you can’t then? Ok.
I don't think it's up to kelvin to prove a negative.
He has to prove his own statements are correct though.
I read Wes Streeting kicked a dog in the face...
I read Wes Streeting kicked a dog in the face…
I read "configuration" is an alias for a former, banned member of STW.
Streeting admitted it and apologised. Starmer also made reference to it
Streeting is an example of all that is wrong with todays labour party. right wing, nasty.
Yeah, somebody else suggested that. I read it as shorthand for 'I don't like your views so I want you booted off this forum'. Pathetic. Get a life.
No need to 'smear' when his own words reveal his true sympathies.
Streeting admitted it and apologised. Starmer also made reference to it
Thanks TJ... any links to Streeting and Starmer referring to this pet shop stuff?
kelvin - I meant the senile slur.
"I found this screenshot on a messageboard" - great.
There's a handy twitter resource that automatically keeps track of all UK MPs and tweets that they post and then delete. I'll see if I can remember how to search it see if that image is a capture of a real tweet.
[ EDIT: twitter search of @deletedbyMPs ]
I meant the senile slur.
We're at cross purposes then. I posted a link to the BBC story, I know that he made that slur in parliament, and I said it was a dick move.
“I found this screenshot on a messageboard” – great.
So what? True or not, Labour love a good smear, don't they?
Bearing in mind the level of intense insults directed at politicians on STW I'm lovin the bizarre reaction that Bill's causal 'pet shop boy' remark has managed to achieve 😂
Bearing in mind the level of intense insults directed at politicians on STW I’m lovin the bizarre reaction that Bill’s causal ‘pet shop boy’ remark has managed to achieve
Far more outrage about that, then the hateful and incredibly offensive slur made towards a member of parliament, in the HoC no less, that Kelvin dismissed merely as a 'dick move'...
Streeting absolutely should not have said what he said in parliament when Corbyn was making his intervention. No excusing it. No dismissing it. No trying to ignore it.
There is still truth and non-truth though, even in 2022. Don't help spread nonsense around the internet. If there's any half-reasonable source as regards the pet shop boy nonsense, then post it and lets scrutinise it (is it really just a coincidence that The Pet Shop Boys have a gay front man, and Streeting is a gay man, or is that part of the "fun" in this made up story?).
Yeah, somebody else suggested that. I read it as shorthand for ‘I don’t like your views so I want you booted off this forum’. Pathetic. Get a life.
Agreed - pretending that you're not a former, banned member is pretty pathetic.
Don’t help spread nonsense around the internet.
No; let's just concentrate on what PetShopBoy said, and we can forget the other stuff. Let's concentrate on facts, then.
You seem to be a supporter. Do you not think his comments deserve total condemnation, and further action by the Labour leader? Streeting is, after all, shadow health secretary, and dementia care would fall under his remit. If a 39 year old man makes such a hateful, offensive statement, do you think he should be allowed to continue in such a role? What about those constituents of his, who suffer/live with dementia etc every single day? Do you not think they deserve better? Should our representatives in parliament not be held to the highest standards?
Ransos; Im glad I've brought meaning to your day. Enjoy the rest of it.
fwiw "pet shop boy" has levels of meaning which precede the band. Either way, it's not what the sobriquet says about Streeting, it's what it says about anyone using it in derogatory fashion that's the issue: it makes you look bad for calling attention to his being gay.
Also: should Corbyn be corrected for saying that dementia is a mental health condition? It's not. Also "senile" is not any kind of technical term for dementia, it's demotic language these days and not far from saying "old fool". Which for sure would warrant an apology but no more than that. As to whether Corbyn is suffering age related mild cognitive impairment? Why wouldn't he be? Christ knows I feel like I am half the time. Okay I'm on thinner ice with this second para but will leave it up...
Ransos; Im glad I’ve brought meaning to your day. Enjoy the rest of it.
If it helps you to believe that, I'm glad to have been of service.
I didn't know Streeting was gay until this thread. Its not really of that much interest to me which people like doing what to whom.
I'm far more interested in the fact he is a right wing plonker in the wrong party
I didn’t know Streeting was gay until this thread.
you're not calling him "pet shop boy"
I read “configuration” is an alias for a former, banned member of STW.
If that's the case he must have been pretty obscure.
If that’s the case he must have been pretty obscure.
I'm not aware that the gender of this person is known. Regardless, I'm merely stating what I read.
Regardless, I’m merely stating what I read
Don't believe everything you read...
Actually, it is possible I might have been a 'member' of this, or a very similar forum, many years ago. Like, 10 or more. I think I wanted to ask some questions about a broken Rockshox Sid fork. I don't believe I was banned. I probably got bored and wandered off, as I had a far narrower attention span back then. I couldn't even tell you what username I had. I've been a member of so many forae I've lost count. Woodworking, Photography, design, art, all sorts. Even a local Labour Party one prior to the last election! 🤣 I think that dissolved quite quickly though. But hey; keep imagining whatever you want, if it gives you pleasure. Or you could, you know, get a life. Just a suggestion.
I didn’t know Streeting was gay until this thread
Neither did I, until I read that FT article I linked to.
Don’t believe everything you read…
A redundant point as I didn't say I believed it.
But hey; keep imagining whatever you want, if it gives you pleasure.
Thanks, but I don't need your permission.
Or you could, you know, get a life. Just a suggestion.
Having an imagination is now grounds for a personal attack? How sad.
Holy shit- the lightweight BBC favourite and all round economic embarrassment that is Kate Andrews gives the thumbs up to Wes Streeting.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1590717109071273985?t=3_DBe-dL01U6AdrclTUXFg&s=19
Clear off you daft cow. You haven't ever said anything remotely useful that isn't failed free-market top trumps.
Kate Andrews gives the thumbs up to Wes Streeting.
She recognises, as I do, that it can be far easier for a right-wing Blairite government to pursue certain policies, which are generally associated with the Tories, than the Tories themselves.
From starting pointless wars to privatisation of public services/provisions.
Quote:
Either we accept ever-rising levels of tax (with the overall burden already at a 72-year high) and a pivot in Whitehall to being a health service with a country attached, or we start talking seriously about reform.
It says significant, too, that Labour is leading this discussion. It is politically easier for Streeting to do so than the new Health Secretary Steve Barclay, who would immediately get accused of “privatising” the NHS.
Right-wing Labour politicians are extremely useful to the Tories and their supporters who have to accept the inalienable fact that every few years they will have to hand power over to the Opposition.
Western parliamentary democracy cannot function with the same party constantly in power, it completely undermines the illusion that there is choice.
I love Alexei fair play
"Piece of hotel art made man"
LOL
About fracking time
Yup - one good statement but unfortunately it doesn't make up for him publicly stating he has good friends that are tories. The way he stated that disgusted me.
I'm not sure if our recent problems have come from the house of lords, have they?
No.
The house of lords has actually provided some protection against the nutters in the house of commons.
It would be better to reform the latter however he is buying into the claim thats impossible.
Admittedly it is hard given all the special interest groups who find it easy to bribe two parties rather than a multitude but there are options such as asking all those former ukip voters why their votes counted for nothing directly in westminster vs the EU (lets skip over the votes being wasted in the EU since they voted for a bunch of lazy bastards).
Same with the greens.
Lots and lots of opportunity to appeal to voting reform as being an answer to the political elite since, well, it is vs brexit which was the opposite.
Also agree reform is needed rather than abolishment.
This is just the same old soundbite populism.
Strange comment TJ… I have friends, and family, who are Tories. They are wrong about the politics this country needs, as current events make evident, in my opinion. I won’t disown them though.
The lords needs to go completely. No need for a second chamber assuming we have an actual democratic single chamber ie PR
Agreed TJ. I don’t see Starmer embracing PR for the commons though… that’ll take a very different Labour leader to happen. He might stop the removal of PR at regional levels though. That the Conservatives are doing this with little public push back is worrying.
Kelvin - the voters I pity.
The party and politicians I loathe with every fibre of my being. They have deliberately and cruelly caused massive harm to huge swathes of the citizens of this country. death, poverty, illhealth. It is utterly disgusting what they have done and done deliberately. Its not an accident. Its deliberate premeditated and utterly repugnant
many folk are insulated from this. I am not.
the point being that if Starmer can make friends with tory mps then he has no understanding of the reality of what they have deliberately done and the harm they caused.
Fair.
Also agree reform is needed rather than abolishment.
Did you read the article as opposed to just the misleading Guardian headline?
Starmer is proposing the reform of the House of Lords not its abolition :
"House of Lords reform is just one part of that … People have lost faith in the ability of politicians and politics to bring about change – that is why, as well as fixing our economy, we need to fix our politics.”
He added that it should be “truly representative” of the UK’s nations and regions, meaning it should have a clear role in safeguarding devolution.
He has my full support if not TJ's in achieving that. But it needs to really include proper devolved English regions imo.
meaning it should have a clear role in safeguarding devolution
That’s promising.
What he said on reform of parliament is fair enough as far as it goes - but its too timid.
Agreed. But compare it to what they Tories are doing… and who they are stuffing the HoL with.
It is based on Gordon Brown's recommendations which I don't know the details of.
Worth checking out. Brown’s recent comments on the HoL and making the Union work (it currently does not) have been spot on (people north of the border may not agree).
Brown is a died in the wool unionist. Devolutions main weakness is the lack of real power and revenue raising.
The days of the union are numbered and its not worked for Scotland for many decades. there is no way of making it work at all.
The days of the union are numbered and its not worked for Scotland for many decades.
Agreed.
there is no way of making it work at all.
If what Brown is proposing had come in 10 years ago, I think it could have worked. I agree that it is probably now too late.
Oh for chaos with Ed Miliband. 😿
Election promises. Always acted upon.
Brown was the architect of "the vow" for devo max. It never happened. He is not trusted north of the border
Please note - I only mention Scotland not because I have forgotton Wales and NI but because I don't know enough about their politics
The other thing Starmer said which I do like is he would ban mps taking "consultancies" which will all know is legalised bribery
But again too timid. all second jobs should be banned all investments must be put into proper blind trusts etc etc
We have an incredibly corrupt parliament - just they legalised the corruption
No need for a second chamber assuming we have an actual democratic single chamber ie PR
That's quite an assumption, don't you agree?
Did you read the article as opposed to just the misleading Guardian headline?
Nope. There's a certain irony there, don't you think?
Oh yes. But if we had a properly democratic first chamber that actually reflected votes cast we would have no need for a second chamber. We only need a revising chamber due to the undemocratic nature of the HOC.
While the Lords needs scrapping/reforming, most people I talk to are far more worried about the shocking state if the Commons.
'We only need a revising chamber due to the undemocratic nature of the HOC.' Oh boy!!! Learnt nothing from the last 12 years?
A revising chamber is a very good idea. What about a revising chmaber selected by PR as you're a long way from getting a PR HOC?
Makes sense to me wbo.
wbo - we need to fix the cause of the issue ie the undemocrativc HOC first then no need for a second chamber IMO
True. But it doesn't have to be one then t'other. There's things we could do pretty easily, like minimum standards to be a lord, stronger minimum attendance (since iirc the current rule has been used only 8 times ever)- stick in a category of voting vs honorary lords so that pms can still give the title out to cronies if they want or so that people can transition up and down from voting to honorary depending on performance- like having a first team and reserves. Obviously the lords spiritual need fixed, I'm not 100% against it but if it was proportional, and tbh I think that'd be pretty funny. Probably most of all a reversal of the bloat- something like the 1999 "reset".
I'm all for "fix the house of commons and then the lords can just be done away with" but that's a bit like having a "things to do" list that starts with "learn esperanto" and has "do the dishes" second.
Yup, don't let perfect get in the way of better.
Ian Byrne selected despite Starmer's 'leadership'. Result!
I doubt that Starmer will lose much sleep over the occasional working-class candidate committed to the Labour Party's founding principles managing to get through the reselection process without his cohorts finding some spurious excuse to bar them.
He has been overwhelmingly successful in his relentless battle with the left and his determination to pack the PLP with compliant and pointless blairite clones like himself.