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Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes. Probably enough to make the whole point moot. I expect the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.
Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes.
Why though? Especially as
the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.
I was thinking about this last weekend, while looking at all the George, Union (and Ukraine) flags flying in the more affordable areas in the North East. Labour should seriously consider splitting (formally or informally) into “Scottish Labour” (already exists) and “English Labour” (no, I haven’t forgotten Wales)… on a ticket of a referendum on a federal UK. Also offering NI more independence from Westminster without having to grasp the Irish Unification nettle. Decentralising in a way truly that changes but keeps the Union. Has to appeal in all the nations though… including in the “Red Wall”… hence “English Labour”.
Actually, I think I've worked it out ...
I'd always questioned why anyone at all left-leaning would rather have a Tory government over a Lab/SNP one but that was missing an obvious point. It's the right-leaning Labour voters that are driving the decision.
ex-red wall voters in the south
It is strange just how quickly the definitions of political metaphors can change, which can make it hard to keep up.
Here is the original comment by the man who coined the phrase only 3 years ago:
The first is a huge "red wall" stretching from N Wales into Merseyside, Warrington, Wigan, Manchester, Oldham, Barnsley, Nottingham and Doncaster. When you talk about cultural barriers to voting Tory – this is where it is.
Back to energy… is Bulb now a nationalised energy supplier? In some other kind of public ownership? I can’t find anything definitive on it.
Bulb was given loan to run the company.
The biggest effective bail-out. But not ownership.
It's the usual thing, don't go anywhere near nationalisation but chuck money at it.
It's a ridiculous clash of ideology.
Effectively the market should collapse if it can't do its job.
But I think Bulb were one of the biggest if not the biggest to 'survive.'
Too big to fail. But it looked like it was on borrowed time to me.
It's not complex here in the heart of the red wall. They're socially conservative and economically liberal.
It maybe isn't that clean cut - but I dare bet if you raise the state of the economy up here you might loosen the attitude socially too.
Wallers got conned though. That's the sad truth - they were buying into levelling up as well as Brexit. (And a misdirected anti-Corbyn sentiment from the likes of their own John Mann.)
They thought loads of money was coming back.
This is why it's important for Labour to rewire their fiscal prudence policy and take on board that a government doesn't need to balance the books. Balanced books are of no use to an economy or deprived areas.
It's actually not that difficult to correct but Labour have gone in the totally wrong direction.
It is strange just how quickly the definitions of political metaphors can change
No, the definition hasn’t changed, it’s just that we’re not all in London. Someone in Scotland would describe “the Red Wall” as being in the south, especially when comparing it with seats in Scotland.
It’s the right-leaning Labour voters that are driving the decision.
It’s the “Union before all else” voters driving that decision. Whether they are right-leaning is debatable… in the main they may well be, but not exclusively. A federal solution really needs pushing by Labour… otherwise Scottish independence will come. It’ll be when, not if… unless a major party south of the border can push an alternative that isn’t just “shut up and keep the Union as it is”.
100% agree.
A new federal Britain should be Labour's number one policy. It would keep the Union together and give more power to the regions who have been ****ed over for decades. A vote winner I reckon?
Stating they will go into a coalition with the SNP will cost labour votes. Probably enough to make the whole point moot. I expect the SNP would support labour on most issues even outside a coalition anyway.
Think there's mixed reports going on, which may stem from the Scottish issues, more than national, from most sources, after a UK election Labour haven't said yay or nay to a coalition, as it's not really something to plan yet, the rest comes from the previous coalition in a Scottish government, which isn't happening anyway.
As Scotroutes says, the SNP naturally back against the tories, without the need to give the tories more fuel to burn labour with, like the way they lambasted Milliband with potential links to the SNP back in 2015.
Personally, i think the SNP have enough to work out and plan without thinking of a UK coalition as well, there's a lot going on up in Scotland and a lot of fighting ahead for them as well, they're getting tarred as much as Labour are just now!
"I'm told that hindsight is a wonderful thing"
👏🏼
Concentrating on the cost of living crisis, while setting out the immediate measures the government could and should be taking, while also pricking at the empty phrases of the PM at PMQs.
"he said that fears about inflation were unfounded"
The part time PM has been asleep at the wheel all along. Repeated charges of "doing the country down" and "captain hindsight" thrown at the LotO to deflect away from questions about poor governance by a floundering government could be about to hit the end of the line at last.
"He talks about doing this country down, he is running this country down"
👏🏼
Johnson is back on "got Brexit done"... very obviously on the back foot. All noise.
“I’m told that hindsight is a wonderful thing”
Nice to see Starmer indulging in jocular knockabout and looking very pleased with himself while millions suffer. He's laughing and joking when he should be raging with anger. He just doesn't get it.
He just doesn’t get it.
Yes, he does. That he puts forward measures to help people, now, and clearly makes the case why Johnson is a poor PM, without getting red faced and loud, is the foil to Johnson's fake passion and empty noise.
Here comes Blackford to land the next blow...
That he puts forward measures to help people, and clearly makes the case why Johnson is poor PM, without getting red faced and loud
The measures Labour are proposing don't go anywhere near to redressing the increases in energy bills and the cost of living. He was laughing when delivering that line about hindsight. To the watching voters paying double what they were last year for their utility bills it looks like nothing more than another westminster debating contest which will do nothing to actually help them.
They help get people through the next twelve months. That is all. They are what the government could and should do RIGHT NOW. They are not a manifesto for a future Labour government, or a roadmap for how energy supply should be handled long term. Using the windfall tax to offset energy prices is just part of a short term fix. That the government should apply, or rather should have already applied. Along with increasing benefits already aimed at those that most need help.
Unrelated, but it really pisses me off when you can hear members of the front bench (shadow and otherwise) jeering and shouting comments during PMQs. STFU and at least let people talk. Angela Rayner is particularly bad at this and I heard her talking over Starmer repeatedly today.
Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?
Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?
If she's not flashing her pins to put the men off their work she's shouting down everyone, bloody northerners 😂
Agreed. But why pick Angela Rayner, not Peter Bone (who actually caused the speaker to stop proceedings to shut him up)?
Because Peter Bone is an imbecile. Angela Rayner is normally far more professional.
Windfall tax is a bare minimum of nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The fact the Tories are looking at it tells you that.
Starmer could push back so much harder. Talk of manifesto promises are largely irrelevant now given the fact that lots of people are about to go through hell.
But I guess he's busy doing battle with who can win the whole covid rule busting thing. He will never win that one either.
Cost of living is natural Labour territory - but then again this damp squib of uselessness is barely worthy of the name Labour.
Starmer is worse than I ever imagined he could be. But more desperate than that the captain of lack of substance (apart from the NUS) - Junior Blairite Wes Streeting is being dropped in and out of conversation.
Someone who has built his political career out of nothing more than media training.
& Boris is getting away with it all because the polls are so close. His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)
& Boris is getting away with it all because the polls are so close. His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)
Absolutely.
You can't tackle an opponent who doesn't care about the rules by pointing out the rules.
You've got to go for the jugular. The population should be getting to know by now that they've been fleeced.
Sell it to them with some solutions.
this damp squib of uselessness is barely worthy of the name Labour.
To be fair this is not uniquely a Labour Party thing, if it was then the LibDems would be making massive inroads.
British politics has been hijacked by self-serving professionals who have no connection with ordinary voters and are clearly determined to maintain the status quo.
Nick Clegg castrated the LibDems and now Keir Starmer is castrating Labour.
The result is no radical alternative to the vision offered by the Tories. Just the promise that it will be delivered with greater integrity. Although like millions of ordinary voters I'm not necessarily convinced - the LibDem enthusiasm for austerity when in government appeared every bit as great as the Tories.
Starmer could push back so much harder.
How exactly, labour aren’t in power?
His party would have him out if Labour were ahead by 20 points (as any decent opposition would be)
So how exactly do labour get ahead by 20 points in a country that has a high percentage of lifetime voting tories, right wingers and now a near enough independent Scottish vote?
The last time labour had close to that they had most of the Scottish seats and a Tory party that were more disjointed than labour have been over the last few years!
Well there you go .... it's all the fault of voters.
But only since Keir Starmer became Leader.
The SNP will not go into coalition. They rightly want no part of governing England. They might do supply and confidece
They would not vote fown a labour government but they might well abstain
Labour doing anti SNPdeals with tories in Scotland stinks. They have forgotten who the enemy is
Well there you go …. it’s all the fault of voters.
Not sure where you read that, but it's reality, you have core voters on both sides, for Labour to get a 20 point lead over the tories you'd have to be shifting a lot of core tory voters over, and with the rise of the SNP, Labour have gone from 56 MPs from Scotland in 2001 to having 1 MP currently, that's eaten way more into Labour than the tories.
But then again, it's all Keir Starmer's fault, it was his complete failure that led the tories to have 163 seats more in the current parliament, his failure that allowed the tories, who had just instigated the biggest disaster we've seen in generations with Brexit, with Boris Johnson at the helm, into allowing them to have an 80 seat majority in Parliament, which allows them to do whatever they want, damn you Keir 😂
Yeah I know what you are saying argee, it's a well-rehearsed often repeated argument...... everything was the fault of the leader of the party until Starmer became leader.
Now it's the fault of voters.
To be fair this is not uniquely a Labour Party thing, if it was then the LibDems would be making massive inroads.
British politics has been hijacked by self-serving professionals who have no connection with ordinary voters and are clearly determined to maintain the status quo.
Nick Clegg castrated the LibDems and now Keir Starmer is castrating Labour.
It's this kind of disingenuous sentiment that's ruining the country, slow clap for you.
just instigated the biggest disaster we’ve seen in generations with Brexit, with Boris Johnson at the helm,
They have even managed to convince Starmer:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-brexit_uk_620a1851e4b03230246d43a2
It’s this kind of disingenuous sentiment that’s ruining the country, slow clap for you.
What is ruining the country is that no credible politician is offering an alternative vision to the Tories's.
But blame voters. Or in this case apparently me.
They have even managed to convince Starmer:
Honestly, there is no rejoining the EU, Brexit happened, they won, to even contemplate rejoining would cost the UK a fortune, and we'd still lose all that we did, all the perks we had in the EU due to the UK's stature and time in the EU wouldn't be reinstated either.
Starmer is damned if he does though, if he'd said in that interview 'yes, i would look to rejoin the EU' then he'd be getting ripped apart for 'looking backwards' or 'not prioritising cost of living' or whatever.
What is ruining the country is that no credible politician is offering an alternative vision to the Tories’s.
From manifestos, pledges and drafts i'd say Labour, Lib Dems and the SNP are all offering alternative visions, i'd say the biggest issue just now is that nobody truly understands what the actual Tory vision is for the next 2 years, or what their next election aims will be
Ernie
What do you think of the labour tory anti SNP pacts in scotland. Happened under Corbyn
Labor had a non aggression pact at the last few ges and work with tories rather than Snp on councils
Happened under Corbyn
A lot of things happened in the Labour Party during the time of the previous leader. All sorts of allegations have been made, including that funds were secretly and improperly redirected away from left-wing candidates and to committed blairites instead.
Will we ever know the truth? Well the present leader appears determined to stop publication of the Forde Inquiry indefinitely. The idea that Corbyn had a firm grip of the party is of course fanciful.
tjagain
Full MemberWhat do you think of the labour tory anti SNP pacts in scotland. Happened under Corbyn
The weirdness of Labour in Scotland- back when they had some competent leadership and direction, they were treated like a branch office by Westminster labour. When they were led by a delusional halfwit (Murphy), a sadface emoticon (Dugdale), nobody at all (Leonard), and the awkward silence after a loud fart (Sarwar), people in London let them be in charge.
Corbyn's decision to let Scottish Labour do their own thing would have been a great one in other times but sadly it happened when they were a self-harming disaster.
As much as it is true that John Smith had transformed the Labour Party, and as true as it is that Blair benefited from that transformation, it is impossible to explain the scope of Labour's victory under Blair without appreciating the depth of disillusionment of the Tories in the death throes of the Major Government, tagged on to the end of Thatcher's Reign of Terror.
With the best will in the world, it is difficult to understand why there is not anywhere near such a groundswell of hatred toward the "ba***rds" - Major's analysis, not mine - now as there was then. The timescale is similar, the personalities are as offensive, and the odour is very reminiscent.
If Starmer can't make hay of it, who can?
48 hours…
2 days ago, when talking about “Labour’s plan” for a windfall tax, the BBC were reporting it could only raise 1 billion pounds to help with energy bills… and derided as not being enough to make a difference. This morning, when talking about a possible “government plan” for a windfall tax, suddenly it’s possible to raise “up to” 7 billion pounds… 🤷🏻♂️
As much as it is true that John Smith had transformed the Labour Party, and as true as it is that Blair benefited from that transformation
Smith just largely carried on doing what Kinnock had started - the one thing of note he achieved was probably the "One person one vote" decision at conference to stop the block union vote (you all thought that was Blair, right?) At the time his reforms were cynically referred to as "One more heave" they were criticised at the time for being quite slow so as to not frighten the horses.
I think politics was a different thing back then. Smith - as leader of the opposition criticised Lawson about the state of the economy and his relationship with another member of the Govt, both of whom then resigned a few days later...Can't imagine that happening now.
I think politics was a different thing back then.
It was, the main difference being that people still had a smidgeon of respect for politicians and understood what they stood for. Not any more. Today politicians are reviled, and the popular view is that the only thing they stand for is themselves. Starmer and the PLP are doing very little to change that consensus.
No i think the difference was that politicians still had respect for themselves, and still exercised what Peter Hennessy has termed the "Good Chap Theory"
So labours windfall tax was gonna raise 2bn and the tories today will be offering 10bn from various sources (if you believe them that is). Outflanked on the left by a ‘far right’ Tory party. You couldn’t make it up.
Credit to Johnson, not only has he out-manoeuvred Starmer, he’s run rings around the Thatcherites in his own party too.
The rumour is that renewable producers are going to be hit hard, rather than just gas and oil producers... and that they'll be tax breaks for oil and gas producers if they help to increase our carbon extraction by investing in new North Sea fields... to get the "right" of his party on board. Let's hope not.
Credit to Johnson, not only has he out-manoeuvred Starmer, he’s run rings around the Thatcherites in his own party too.
Not sure how you can twist that to labour being outmanoeuvred. They've campaigned for a policy and it's now been adopted by a government with a huge majority and no real need to listen to the opposition. Seems like a big labour win to me, even ignoring how many people it will help. Now whether they actually manage to get the public to see that is a a different question.
Starmer can't win with you though, can he Dazh...
- doesn't effect government policy, and he's ineffective
- changes government policy, and he's "out-manoeuvred"
🤷🏻
Ernie
I only mentioned Corbyn so that Starmer was not blamed
The labour tory pact in Scotland gained the tories 8 seats which allowed May to struggle on. Without that pact we would have had a Corbyn minority government
It is truely disgusting to me that labour in Scotland would rather work with tories than SNPin local government where the constitution is not an issue
I am disgusted that the pact saved the tory government and thus led to brexit and Johnson
Thats the depths Scottish labour have dived into
changes government policy, and he’s “out-manoeuvred”
No he’s outmanoeuvred because once again labour have been shown to be less ambitious and supportive of working people than the tories. The tories should never be able to claim this, and they can only do so because of Starmer’s cowardly lack of ambition.
The difference is the the Tories probably made their figures up.
Labour will have had to be conservative in their estimates to avoid avoid being ripped apart on the press.
I am disgusted that the pact saved the tory government and thus led to brexit and Johnson
Thats the depths Scottish labour have dived into
To be fair, the SNP basically took everything the Scottish Labour party had, going from 55 or 56 seats to 1, taking over their left of centre policies and practices, to side with the SNP would basically say to voters in Scotland 'what's the point of Labour when you have the SNP?
Any coaltion with Labour and SNP wouldn't have done anything in 2017, May only needed the DUP to get over the halfway line in parliament, Labour needed a hundred more seats!
It is a shame that in Scotland the SNP and Labour can't really work together, as they overlap in so many ways, the SNP is meant to be a broad church, but it didn't really need a rocket scientist to understand the only way the SNP could be successful, and that was pretty much to destroy Scottish Labour, anyone voting Tory in Scotland hate the SNP, as they're either unionists, or farmers, or both 😂
Well, there you go, windfall tax paired to a 90% tax relief for oil companies investing in new extraction.
Net zero? Give zero shits about burning as much oil as possible more like.
No he’s outmanoeuvred because once again labour have been shown to be less ambitious and supportive of working people than the tories. The tories should never be able to claim this, and they can only do so because of Starmer’s cowardly lack of ambition.
Honestly, Labour are not in power, they cannot push through a 'windfall tax', or cost of living allowances, or anything, they can raise bills, but they need them to be voted through so require Labour, SNP and quite a lot of Tory MPs to vote with it, the tories on the other hand have a majority, they can raise a bill and have it voted through easily.
There is no out-manoeuvring, Labour are basically pushing things through in the hope they can either guilt the tories into doing it, all estimates are just that, newspapers can say £2 billion or £7 billion, nobody will know the actual total in a few months, it's just for headlines now.
Winter fuel payment increased. Payments for DLA and tax credit recipients as well. Seems like good targeting. Pretty close to what Labour were pushing for. Presume the universal element is coming next...
...the loan for fuel bill has been changed to a real grant... and has been increased... just as Labour were pushing for.
So there we go... Labour broadly setting government policy.
How broken does Johnson looks as he nods along behind Sunak? Been a hard week? Looks like the Churchill insurance dog after a stag weekend in Amsterdam.
No he’s outmanoeuvred because once again labour have been shown to be less ambitious and supportive of working people than the tories. The tories should never be able to claim this, and they can only do so because of Starmer’s cowardly lack of ambition.
Eh? SKS has been calling for a windfall tax for weeks.
There is no out-manoeuvring
Before today labour were bragging (unjustifiably) that they'd give low income households £600 to help with energy bills. Sunak has just given them £650. Now the tories will justifiably be telling voters that they did more than labour would have. If that's not out-manoeuvred I don't know what is.
Johnson has left the chamber already. Hide in the fridge time.
The point is argeee that the labour tory pact gained may 8 seats. Without thosev8 Scottish seats she would not have been able to form a government
Before today labour were bragging (unjustifiably) that they’d give low income households £600 to help with energy bills. Sunak has just given them £650. Now the tories will justifiably be telling voters that they did more than labour would have. If that’s not out-manoeuvred I don’t know what is.
Exactly this.
Labour set the bar that low that the Tories have performed a master stroke.
Day after Johnson's reckoning - they put this out. Very obviously timed.
Now Labour are left with nothing.
That's the trouble with Centrism - it's no different to the Tories in economic strategy.
This is a perfect example.
I saw this coming a mile off.
Can I reiterate again how the funds will be made available irrespective of the windfall tax.
Both parties ought to see this. Same as the pandemic basically.
How much better society could be when governments spend. In this case they absolutely had to.
They will drone on about it being paid out of windfall tax. But it won't be.
The point is argeee that the labour tory pact gained may 8 seats. Without thosev8 Scottish seats she would not have been able to form a government
Personally i think it was just a bit of a whiplash from the 2015 elections, the SNP had a landslide, with a large chunk of that due to the Indy vote in 2014, it just seemed to be a little more of a correction from that previous landslide.
Scotland will always have that right of centre element, especially in certain areas, and that's what the SNP are fighting against, the next election will be interesting as well, as the SNP are having to deal with day to day bad press and negativity, it's not just all about independence now and the tories/unionists/etc up north can smell blood in some of the marginals, but the SNP are smart enough to see that.
Tories more radical than labour on cost of living. Out-manoeuvred.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1529793215095877633?s=20&t=yGOhtTFVPipMrMMoYxfkWA
Starmer can’t win with you though, can he
DazhOwen…– doesn’t effect government policy, and he’s ineffective
– changes government policy, and he’s “out-manoeuvred”🤷🏻
They will drone on about it being paid out of windfall tax. But it won’t be.
There is every chance of that. With the 90% investment loophole Sunak sneaked in there... the oil countries just have to plow the profits into developing new North Sea oil fields (which they already want to do, and government should be restricting, not encouraging, if they're serious about net zero) to reduce what they pay as part of the "Temporary Energy Profits Levy". Then the treasury will just look elsewhere. You'd hope from other taxes or from borrowing... but we'll see what happens with the uprating of benefits next year... I can see the devaluing of benefits and public sector wages being part of the mix.
How does labour's £600 compare now? Out-manoeuvred and outflanked. You really couldn't make it up.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1529789091130269696?s=20&t=yGOhtTFVPipMrMMoYxfkWA
Well, there you go, windfall tax paired to a 90% tax relief for oil companies investing in new extraction.
Net zero? Give zero shits about burning as much oil as possible more like.
Do you have a link for that please?
I heard Sunak say it in his speech, just now. Not looked at the policy documents.
Just done a google... this came up first... but give the usual journalists a bit of time to analyse and describe it better...
U.K. Treasury Chief on Thursday outlined a new 25% tax on the profits of oil-and-gas companies.
Rishi Sunak told the House of Commons that this is a temporary levy which will raise around 5 billion pounds ($6.29 billion) over the next year, and will be used to fund subsidies for households.
The tax will be phased out when oil and gas prices return to historically normal levels, Mr. Sunak said.
In addition, the Chancellor said the government is raising investment allowances so that, for every pound invested, companies get back a 90% tax relief.
I heard him say that the tax relief was specifically for oil companies. We'll see when it's all been gone through by people with the time and knowledge.
If it's not green investment, that seems rather daft
How does labour’s £600 compare now? Out-manoeuvred and outflanked. You really couldn’t make it up.
Eh?
It's a labour policy, they've been banging on about for months
The government have done a huge U-turn to get here, just days after voting against it.
Even the most loyal borisbot knows it's been rushed out cover for partygate
It's obvious that the Tories are jumping to the labour demands on this
Johnson in particular will hate that
THanks, yes, I found a mention of the 90% relief in the Guardian but little detail. Its going to be ludicrous if that isnt green investment. But then they classify natural gas as 'green' so...
It’s a labour policy, they’ve been banging on about for months
It's a political disaster for Labour. Yes it's embarrassing for the tories, but it will only be temporary, and it's not like they don't have form for riding out u-turns. Come the next election when inflation will probably be coming down, the tories will be claiming they did far more to help people in the cost of living crisis than labour ever offered, and they also solved the underlying cost of living problem. Labour will have nowhere to go and nothing to say on the single most important issue on the minds of voters.
Johnson in particular will hate that
Don't be daft, he'll be loving it. He's outflanked Starmer, won his battle with Sunak and made him look like an idiot, pissed off his thatcherite critics and distracted everyone from partygate. He's been holding this back whilst allowing Sunak to take the flak so he could use it to draw a line under party gate and make himself popular again. Job done.
Tory/Starmer sticking plaster vs real permanent solutions.
https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1529799512084172802?s=20&t=OuH67za6AZhYXVnT9WJN4w
Tory/Starmer sticking plaster vs real permanent solutions.
I predict we’ll be back here again.
Absolutely we will. Yes it is a temporary sticking plaster, not a long term solution. It was needed though... Boo... bad Starmer for pushing for it, and getting it, when Johnson has a 70+ seat majority. Bad Starmer. 🤷🏻
Next battle is about uprating benefits to help reduce the effects of the rising cost of living for those hit hardest by it... and make that help stick, rather than be temporary. Not sure Starmer and the rest of the Labour team can get the government to deliver that... but I'll be glad they do. I won't berate them for it if they can pull it off.
bad Starmer for pushing for it, and getting it, when Johnson has a 70+ seat majority. Bad Starmer.
It's very generous of Starmer and Reeves to hand Johnson his next election victory by enabling him to outbid labour on help for working people. It's almost like they're not interested in winning the next election.
Tory/Starmer sticking plaster vs real permanent solutions.
John McDonnell can post as many tweets as he likes with what should be done, without the ability to implement anything, or even provide any cost benefit analysis of this it's a bit like anyone just throwing up a tweet saying 'tax us less and give us more free money', and has about the same level of chance of happening.
As predicted the thatcherites aren't happy. Johnson on the same side as socialists. Who'd have thought it?
https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1529806432287195136?s=20&t=JjMLMAHSBviCUCYE4RZYbg
How did we get from "Labour aren't proposing anything to help people, just sniping from the sidelines" to... "aren't Labour stupid for proposing things to help people, and getting the government to implement some of them"? 🤷🏻
How did we get from
No the mistake was that their lack of ambition led them to propose inadequate policies which would have only partially solved the problem allowing the tories to outflank them by offering more substantial help. Surely you see this? Or presumably you think labour's job is to never propose anything which isn't acceptable to tory politicians and their supporters?
It’s a political disaster for Labour. Yes it’s embarrassing for the tories
As a floating voter, with a passing interest I don't think it'll make any difference.
Even if Starmer had offered a much more generous package, Johnson would simply say their offer was would beating or some other crap.
I listened to the figures from both sides and I can't remember which was which.
I doubt it'll make any difference to those that think multiple piss ups, fights, vomiting bullying staff and fines are comparable to a curry the police already took no action on.
How did we get from “Labour aren’t proposing anything to help people, just sniping from the sidelines” to… “aren’t Labour stupid for proposing things to help people, and getting the government to implement some of them”?
The bar was set so low the Tories have it. Leaving Labour where? Their windfall tax was such a miniscule bitesize crumb that the very fact the Tories have gone with it tells you it's the bare minimum.
This leaves Labour where?
Out of ideas. Again.
But yeah they forced a U-turn according to their digital media. So what?
Are they going to keep feeding low-ball Tory ready policies so the Tories can just take them? Or are they going to offer something substantial that the Tories can't possibly take it because it is at odds with Tory ideology?
People might vote for it - you never know.
Labour - pregaming the Tories.