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Don’t forget the odd bods who finance him also finance tories, they’ll be happy with that outcome.
Really? who are they?
Indeed. Who are these shady financiers and 'puppet masters'?
Because I'm trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
Surely it's either one or the other?
eg Lord Sainsbury
Which Lord Sainsbury?
Because I’m trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
Starmer initially attracted a lot of funding for his leadership campaign from rich Blairite funders (and Israeli lobbyists). Most of them have now given up presumably because they realise they've backed the wrong horse so making a poor return on investment.
There would also need to be an awful lot of big donors to make up for all the members leaving in droves, and unions reducing support.
Surely it’s either one or the other?
Even a sixth former would be able to figure out it could be both.
If you have limited sources of funding then the probability is a)you will be skint unless those sources are being very generous and b)will be dependant on those sources since if they do take the cash away you will be completely screwed since you dont have the other sources to fall back on.
The best option would be to have lots of diverse groups giving you money since it removes both the power of any individual group and gives you a nice big budget.
Starmer initially attracted a lot of funding for his leadership campaign from rich Blairite funders (and Israeli lobbyists)
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady 'puppet master' characters are?
Lord Sainsbury doesn't really seem to fit that MO. Are there others?
The best option would be to have lots of diverse groups giving you money since it removes both the power of any individual group and gives you a nice big budget.
You mean like business, the unions and a membership? That kind of diverse? Or a different kind of diverse? Because having a balance between those 3 groups sounds pretty sensible to me. Or are we still going with the 'all business owners are bastards' narrative?
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
I've already posted a link to an article that lists them, but that would require a bit of effort and understanding on your part, so it's understandable that you won't have bothered. Maybe just post some more pictures?
How's this for balance? This is for the leadership campaign (which again he kept secret until after the election).
You’ll note that the total donations from these eight wealthy individual supporters came to an astonishing £455,000. The financial backing Keir received from the organised labour movement paled into insignificance by comparison. UNISON contributed £31,400, while the rightwing unions Community and USDAW each donated £25,000, which came to a total of £81,400.
He pretended to be a 'unity' candidate when actually he was backed to the hilt by vehemently anti-Corbynite right wingers.
Because having a balance between those 3 groups sounds pretty sensible to me.
Shame the balance is vanishing isnt it under the glorious leader? Which is where the skintness comes in.
Or are we still going with the ‘all business owners are bastards’ narrative?
I love the way rather than admit you came out with some drivel you then double down and decide to invent some new shite.
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
Why do you use the word "mysterious"?
Who, apart from you, is claiming that it is "mysterious"?
Morning comrades.
We've almost a full house of angry lefties now. We've nearly at hit critical mass. Where is he then? He's not formed a splinter group, has he?
Really? who are they?
So; you apparently don't know who they are, yet you accuse others of using 'tropes'. If you don't know who these puppet masters are, how do you make the leap to the imagined scenario of people using 'tropes'? You've been challenged to back up your accusations, yet so far haven't been able to come up with anything at all. Why is that? Is it just that you're using the pathetic, cowardly tactic of trying to smear those you disagree with, rather than actually engaging with the discussion?
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
It's been done, more than once, on this thread already. If you can't be bothered to actually read what others post, then you'll remain ignorant.
Rod Liddle; bit of gravy on his lapel...
HOUSE!!
😀
We’ve almost a full house of angry lefties now.
Well if you ever want to change anything for the better, then you will need these. Unlike Starmchair.
Morning comrades.
And on cue we have the hissy fit and some hilarious images.
We’ve almost a full house of angry lefties now.
LOL! @ you calling anyone "angry"!
When you get into one of your rants mate I can almost feel the spit flying out of your posts.
Apparently your mega-strops is the stuff of legend down the Rose and Crown.
Binners; you're a gambling man. I'm willing to bet you can't stay off this thread for at least a week. Call it a tenner. You in? You can confirm by simply not posting. If you do post, I win. Donation to a charity of the winner's choice.
LOL! @ you calling anyone “angry”!
Didn't he launch a tirade of abuse against another forum member, on this thread or perhaps another one? Something something Brexit blame others? Was pretty shocking to be honest. And then there's the mythical incident in the RnC, where he shouted at some racists, then sat back down to read his Guardian. Or did he flounce out? I can't remember. He probably can't either. 😀
Badge of honour - angry lefty.
Anything else is just a neoliberal support act.
Where are your mates now?
Flip Flop Chuka - J.P Morgan
Chris Leslie - CEO credit hobby
Jess Phillips - Photo shoots for the times.
Ian Austin - Lords lovey and Labour treason maker.
Rory Stewart - No idea
Tom Watson - Gambling advisor to gambling PLC thank you very much.
Keir Starmer - Leader of the lack of opposition.
Jo Swinson - who?
I'd rather be an angry lefty.
Because I’m trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
If Starmer is as good at soliciting corporate donations as he is at taking the fight to the Tories, then the answer seems obvious.
Vote Labour: we're broke losers.
I've just realised something about myself... I'm far too likely to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are left wing. Perhaps that's because the left wingers I know away from the internet are all inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful people. This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
In what way? How can you tell how 'inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful' people are (or not), simply from online interaction? And isn't basing a judgment on someone's character, just on that basis, somewhat naive and blinkered?
Perhaps that’s because the left wingers I know away from the internet are all inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful people. This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
There is no such thing as people from the internet.
Come around to mine I will make you a damn good cup of coffee and show you the trails.
That would be nice Rone. Once my ribs are fixed I might take you up on that.
Cool. 👍
Cracked broken ribs is nearly the most pain I've ever been in.
Sympathies.
This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
Yes, your dogged defence of binners' juvenile insults/trolling/not engaging with the answers to questions he asks because he doesn't like them has become increasingly hard to understand.
And then there’s the mythical incident in the RnC, where he shouted at some racists, then sat back down to read his Guardian. Or did he flounce out?
I thought we were crowd funding for you to go there to get rid of all the racists from the Rose and Crown for ever?
You can try your luck in Bees Knees after that.
After all you are are self professed cleaner up of such establishments
I’m far too likely to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are left wing.
You don't seem to have much problem giving binners the benefit of the doubt Kelvin.
After all you are are self professed cleaner up of such establishments
You don't need to worry yourself with what I do. You can't even answer a question about what 'tropes' I and others are supposed to have used. That's pertinent to this actual thread. Why not have a go at doing that?
I used to think I was a leftie until I got on to the political threads on here, as compared to most people I knew, I was
Little did I know
I now realise, now I've been tutored in such things by the righteous brotherhood of the PFJ, that I'm actually worse than her...
Its been a chastening experience, but I thank you all for my 're-education'. I now see the error of my ways comrades.
How are the tractor production figures looking today? Glorious, I presume?
An hour. Not even a day. 😀
Here you go, Binners:
https://fareshare.org.uk/donate/
A tenner. That's all. Do something useful.
You’ve been challenged to back up your accusations, yet so far haven’t been able to come up with anything at all. Why is that? Is it just that you’re using the pathetic, cowardly tactic of trying to smear those you disagree with, rather than actually engaging with the discussion?
Not smearing, if you agree with the use of phrases such as puppet masters, return on investment,he’s not his own man etc that's up to you. You see them in your context.
The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.
It's the same thing from 2 different perspectives
The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.
So it's only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
I used to think I was a leftie
And yet you very clearly use the term "leftie' as an insult. Regularly. Almost daily in fact.
So we aren't allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that's anti-semitic?
That seems incredibly useful to people with lots of money who use it to influence politics doesn't it.
binners: who are these supposed paymasters?
everyone else: they're these specific people as already mentioned and sourced from (now) publicly available documents
binners: Comrades, [monty python picture], tractor production....
kelvin: everyone stop being mean to binners
So it’s only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,
Etc
Seems pretty obvious to me what has happened in with Starmer. He was backed by various new labour supporting corporate interests to win the leadership so that they could hedge their bets in the event of a future labour government and steer policy towards their interests. He then took that as a license to go to war against the membership and re-establish new labour central control of the party, no doubt under the influence of the likes of Mandelson et al. But then when the same corporate backers realised he was useless and never going to be PM they realised their money was wasted, so the promises of financial support never came to fruition. The result is a party which has deliberately cut off it's main source of funding and grassroots support without anything to replace it. Nice one Keir!
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
Binners for once just admit that your preferred option of new labour centrist control of the party has utterly failed. It failed in 2010 and 2015, it failed in the 2016 brexit vote, it failed in losing control of the party to Corbyn and the left, it failed in 2019 with the anti-semitism and 2nd referendum shitshow, and now they've taken failure to another level with Starmer which unbelievably might even result in the bankruptcy and destruction of the party itself.
The only time this sorry litany of failure was interrupted was in 2017, when labour looked a bit like a democratic, grassroots political party which was interested in making the lives of working people better. Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it's misery, and that's exactly what will happen as long as it's under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.
So we aren’t allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that’s anti-semitic?
There is more than one way to highlight issues with political funding, with all the history and recent events the left more than anyone else should understand language matters.
Alternatively Bridges thinks I'm deluded so I'm not sure why you give a fig about my views.
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,
Etc
Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it's not being used about Jewish people. 🙄
I doubt he even knew Richard Desmond was jewish tbh.
I would agree using the term is pretty ill-advised given it's historical use etc but I think it's quite a stretch to argue it's automatically anti-semitic.
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward
You're actually trying to conflate my comments on here, with someone totally unconnected to me in any way? That is beyond desperate. That hole must be really, really big by now.
Keep digging. Be careful that the spoil doesn't fall back in on you though.
Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it’s not being used about Jewish people
Language matters, context of a Labour politician/ member/ voter saying it more so
But I'm delusional, ignore me and keep saying it if you want
Dig, dig, dig, dig.....
'Tropes' is just a way to try to put words in another's mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist. You need to be able to distinguish between zionism and racism. Zionism is used to justify Jim Crow laws against intermarriage plus ethnic cleansing plus endless military aggressions, it is a racist ideology supported by inter alia British racists then and now.
If people make an investment in a party, be it unions or car distributors, they expect to have influence. If not, it's probably better PR to give it to a charity. Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance. Is that a trope?
You need to have a cup of tea
You posted this at least twice on contributions regarding Israel and Starmer's labour
Yeah; puppet masters. And?
If you don't think it's a trope then fine, keep saying it.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it.
‘Tropes’ is just a way to try to put words in another’s mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist.
Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS. Plenty of other ways to say what you are trying to get across
Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance.
See you can do it
If Starmer was so cheap to buy, why weren't British Muslim backers funding him? The money plus 10x the voter base must surely be attractive?
Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.
I can't really be arsed getting into this, but one question I would ask is when people who accuse the tory party of having shady corporate backers (which no one with a couple of brain cells would deny), are they also accused of being anti-semites, or is this just an exclusively labour thing? The only thing you're doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy.
further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.
Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact - I will try and find the source for that.
Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it’s misery, and that’s exactly what will happen as long as it’s under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.
Dysfunctional corrupt borough council pretty much describes the London Borough of Croydon.
A council which for years has been in the control of Labour right-wingers and has comprehensively failed its voters.
The Labour group on Croydon Council couldn't be more self-serving and incompetent. And they have a very close personal relationship spanning decades the current general secretary of the Labour Party Dave Evans.
Incompetent, bankrupt, featured on ITN national news due to its housing unfit for human habitation, and massively rewarding its councillors with generous "allowances", it is hard to imagine the Tories not winning the next local elections.
The only thing you’re doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy
Not using tropes is important in and if itself everyone should get that these days. The issues being discussed are important, they need to be tackled responsibly without language that should be cast into the history books
Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact – I will try and find the source for that.
It may well be true, I do think that labour's focus on the Israeli/Palestinian mess leads to a escalation in language and attitudes
Yes, your dogged defence of binners’ juvenile insults/trolling/not engaging with the answers to questions he asks because he doesn’t like them has become increasingly hard to understand.
So much this!
Also Tractor producing figures Binbins? What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?
Ian Austin is utterly loathsome.
He should've have never been within a mile of Labour.
Is now isolating.
Starmer now also self-isolating as one of his kids has covid... I assume it was an lft test cince he was in HoP this morning and if a PCR he should have been at home till they had the result
Suspect it was lft, and that his kid isn't ill. Sunday and Wednesday seem to be key days for lft for pupils.
Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.
The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me.
What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?
I thought the issue was that Starmer isn't cutting through and the weak front bench team.....
A secondary issue is what are they spending money on to have a sudden crisis, that might be more revealing about the structural mess and legacy liabilities that Starmer and the labour party is wrestling with
Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.
Made me laugh!
The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me
Maybe, although not sure with him - because he's no longer an MP?
However your point is still 100% valid as he still has status.
But he became independent around 2019.
He really really pissed me off when he sent the letter as former Labour MP telling people not to vote for Corbyn - especially in red wall areas like ours.
Austin is also on twitter more or less blaming Corbyn for the funding crisis in Labour. Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.
Austin stands on a platform of mythical anti-extremism (Mainstream UK - Corbyn programmed AS in effect) - but he's actually one of the most extreme MPs I've ever come across.
Massive MP expense juicer too.
Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.
And what might be going out as payoffs as a consequence of his leadership
Yougov polling looking dire
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating
Assuming he isn't going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?
As for money, plenty of legacy issues for Starmer's Labour
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/labour-party-financial-peril-keir-starmer-members-leaked-report
Assuming he isn’t going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?
It's not going to happen currently.
They're not giving the voters anything to support. The ideology they are pursuing is paper thin.
It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups (food shortages, house prices etc) to shift the easy ride they are given.
Of course having a strong Loto might help!
Something may pop-up eventually that starts a Tory crumble. Market economics are effectively in turmoil with huge supply shocks. (Hence creeping inflation). But I think that's short-term.
It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups
I would have thought that one thing we could agree on by now is that Labour is not going to gain support simply by waiting for government cock-ups… they are making them daily, and still Magic Johnson keeps his support. Starmer’s approach so far (try and neutralise the idea that Labour is anti-British and only interested in supporting ‘minority interests’ in the minds of voters lost to the Tories via UKIP/BrexitParty) is a failure. It has not only failed to win people back, but is turning away others. A new approach from him absolutely is required. And Labour need to be working out now who should replace him closer to the next election.
If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”
Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).
Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they're quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who's not even in the party any more.
If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”
Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).
[Incidentally I just looked up her Twitter and she's merrily retweeting stuff like this:
https://twitter.com/FCDONeilWigan/status/1410525104925286400
Corbyn said he would stop selling weapons to Israel. Funny eh?]
Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they're quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who's not even in the party any more.
So, the virus running rampant, hospitals filling up, the economy grinding to a halt due to millions having to isolate, supermarket shelves bare, looming public sector strikes. This all getting a bit 1970s isn’t it? And yet the leader of the opposition is spending his time sacking party workers and waging war against lefty nutters who no one gives a shit about. It’s amazing that not only do we have the most incompetent PM and govt in history, but an even more incompetent LOTO and shadow cabinet. FFS Starmer, grow a pair of balls, swallow your pride and f*** off!
I imagine the motivations are varied, some of the people will have deep personal trauma, some might have just given up and be seeing the cheque as vindication.
Similar to why some people claim for medical negligence from the NHS and some don't
You posted this at least twice on contributions regarding Israel and Starmer’s labour
Yeah; puppet masters. And?
If you don’t think it’s a trope then fine, keep saying it.
Thanks, I will. Not that I need your, or anybody else's, permission to use whatever words or language I choose. You've been challenged to prove my comments are in any way anti-Semitic, and have failed. You've now admitted the whole thing is a fictional narrative inside your own head.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it
And several have pointed out where you're wrong. Two others have even apologised for their insinuations/accusations. Time to do the honourable thing, and join them.
What you are actually demonstrating, very effectively, is just how smear campaigns work. Drip, drip, drip becomes a raging torrent of animosity, fuelled by nothing more than unfounded accusations and defamation. The genuine issue of anti-Semitism in our society, and the Labour party, is something that as been ignored repeatedly by various Labour leaders, including Blair, Brown and Milliband, yet suddenly, it became a massive problem under Corbyn. Really? But when you dig a bit deeper (you're used to digging, so it won't be hard for you), you discover that the reality is that Corbyn is the only Labour leader who has been openly critical of the Israeli regime, and the brutality imposed by a so-called 'democratic' state, on the Palestinians. The REAL reason the smear campaign started, was because there was a genuine fear amongst those who profit from the perpetuation of conflict (everywhere, not just in Palestine), that Corbyn would derail that gravy train. Penny starting to drop now? This has really **** all to do with actual anti-Semitism, or culture, or religion, and all to do with MONEY. And before you start off with your pathetic accusations of me using 'tropes'; Corbyn is just as opposed to the regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, China, India, Brazil, the USA, and anywhere where fascistic governments act against true freedom and equality, but with whom our government are happy to do business with. Just as he was opposed to the regimes in South Africa, Chile, Sri Lanka, Tibet and numerous other countries. Corbyn actually has many Jewish friends, a point the mainstream media conveniently ignore, who are unequivocal in the fact he is not actually the anti-Semite some seem to believe he is. Meanwhile, whilst all this divisive politics is being played out, the actual issue of anti-Semitism (real, not imagined), is getting worse. Xenophobia and fascism are on the rise. Divide and rule works very well for those who profit from conflict. And here you are; duped by that smear campaign yourself, and doing their work for them. Well done. Bow down to your puppet masters.
Bridges whilst I agree with all of that, have you ever considered the wonderful innovation of paragraphs?
I never, any any stage, thought Corbyn was anti-semitic and am fully aware of his work and background regarding opposition to regimes and injustices.
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills he was able to be seen as not dealing with anti-semitism in the party. Yes, I am also aware of the agenda of those stirring it up who don't seem to have the same agenda in stirring up racist issues within the tory party but that is what he had to deal with and he dealt with it poorly.
Too busy for paragraphs mate.
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills he was able to be seen as not dealing with anti-semitism in the party
Let me ask you a question; do you really believe all that? Like genuinely?
Thanks, I will. Not that I need your, or anybody else’s, permission to use whatever words or language I choose. You’ve been challenged to prove my comments are in any way anti-Semitic, and have failed. You’ve now admitted the whole thing is a fictional narrative inside your own head.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it
And several have pointed out where you’re wrong. Two others have even apologised for their insinuations/accusations. Time to do the honourable thing, and join them.
What you are actually demonstrating, very effectively, is just how smear campaigns work. Drip, drip, drip becomes a raging torrent of animosity, fuelled by nothing more than unfounded accusations and defamation. The genuine issue of anti-Semitism in our society, and the Labour party, is something that as been ignored repeatedly by various Labour leaders, including Blair, Brown and Milliband, yet suddenly, it became a massive problem under Corbyn. Really? But when you dig a bit deeper (you’re used to digging, so it won’t be hard for you), you discover that the reality is that the only Labour leader who has been openly critical of the Israeli regime, and the brutality imposed by a so-called ‘democratic’ state, on the Palestinians. The REAL reason the smear campaign started, was because there was a genuine fear amongst those who profit from the perpetuation of conflict (everywhere, not just in Palestine), that Corbyn would derail that gravy train. Penny starting to drop now? This has really **** all to do with actual anti-Semitism, or culture, or religion, and all to do with MONEY. And before you start off with your pathetic accusations of me using ‘tropes’; Corbyn is just as opposed to the regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, China, India, Brazil, the USA, and anywhere where fascistic governments act against true freedom and equality. Just as he was opposed to the regimes in South Africa, Chile, Sri Lanka, Tibet and numerous other countries. Corbyn actually has many Jewish friends, a point the mainstream media conveniently ignore, who are unequivocal in the fact he is not actually the anti-Semite some seem to believe he is. Meanwhile, whilst all this divisive politics is being played out, the actual issue of anti-Semitism (real, not imagined), is getting worse. Xenophobia and fascism are on the rise. Divide and rule works very well for those who profit from conflict. And here you are; duped by that smear campaign yourself, and doing their work for them. Well done. Bow down to your puppet masters.
Thanks for successfully proving my point
I note the continued use of well known tropes
I also note the use of the "some of his friends are (insert minority here)" defence
So back on topic, who can Starmer draft in to lift his profile and to start to make in roads on the PM who yesterday sounded like a babbling schoolboy who hadn't done his homework at PMQs?
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills
Loathe as I am to get into this, how does an opposition leader prevent the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph and Times publishing what they want? What sort of amazing media 'skills' would prevent that?
Anyway back to more pressing issues, I see the nurses are considering industrial action in protest at the tories 3% pay rise. It's going to be interesting to see how labour pretend to be on the nurses side given they wanted them to have a 2% rise. Even Corbyn wouldn't have shot himself in the foot like that. Talk about useless leadership and media skills, there's a perfect example right there. 😂
who can Starmer draft in to lift his profile and to start to make in roads on the PM
He could draft in Angela Rayner to do his job after he's resigned. The problem is not the people around him, it's him. Nothing short of him going will solve this problem, and the longer he hangs on, the more Boris gets away with causing chaos, and the more labour will be blamed for not stopping him.
Thanks for successfully proving my point
That you've been duped by those who seek to profit from social division and conflict? No need to thank me; you did that all by yourself.
I note the continued use of well known tropes
Please; do feel free to point them out, and explain to the class why they are what you claim? Please.
I also note the use of the “some of his friends are (insert minority here)” defence
You really got bubkes, don't you?
So back on topic,
When floundering, change the subject. Right. Ok.
Why not attempt to actually answer a question put to you? Or can't you?
Yougov polling looking dire
I don't know why so much importance is attached to approval ratings by some people when the only thing which is of any importance is how people will vote.
Obviously the more questions they ask the more work is created for the pollsters, but "Clegg mania" in 2010 didn't translate into a huge increase in LibDem support and Corbyn's appalling ratings in 2017 didn't result in a fall in Labour support.
The latest opinion poll of voting intentions is by Survation (19-20 July) and it gives the Tories a 4 percent lead, which is the smallest Tory lead in several months.
As far as the Labour Party being skint is concerned I am sceptical of the problem. I have no reason to believe that it's not true but nor do I have any reason to believe that it is a serious problem.
The entire claim appears to be based on one comment made by David Evans which is that the reserves only exist for one month's wages.
Now Evans has a very clear anti-left agenda, something which he has pursued for many years as he also has his Blairite agenda.
He is a highly competent tactician with a long proven track record. My immediate thought was "who does he want to get rid of/clear out?"
He has campaigned for many years to restructure the party and has frankly talked about getting rid of, quote, "representative democracy". He now has the perfect opportunity as unelected General Secretary of the Labour Party.
My suspicion is heightened by the fact that he personally gives only 2 reasons for the party financial difficulties. Firstly costly legal settlements, and secondly the mass exodus of members from the party.
It is surprising that he gives falling party membership as a reason as it looks so bad in terms of the present leadership, Starmer was suppose to attract new members, Evans is smart enough to know that. He could have also talked about falling donations which is undoubtedly a very serious problem. But he chose not to.
The question is why? Personally I think he likely thought that reluctantly admitting the falling membership would make his claim sound more believable among possible doubters..... "the party's finances must be serious if Evans is forced to admit that people are leaving in their droves".
I have tried to find out which positions/jobs are likely to go in this new slimline party apparatus but had no luck, which adds to my suspicion. I know that the Labour Party is contracting out their complaints procedure, which is very strange for a political party, to a company called "Love Success".
I don't know how letting a private firm make a profit out of your complaints procedure will help with the party's finances.
Of course it might all be perfectly true that the Party's finances are dire, but it is a mistake to assume that it is just because Evans says it is.
Loathe as I am to get into this, how does an opposition leader prevent the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph and Times publishing what they want? What sort of amazing media ‘skills’ would prevent that?
He can't prevent that but he can do a much better job of dealing with it - via his media presence (interviews, tv appearances) and leadership within the party.
Yes, in reality it wasn't that big an issue to deal with and the previous leaders didn't deal with it but they were not in the same position. And the position he was in was not helped by guess what - his useless leadership and media ability.